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White Magic and Black Magic both use the same magic circle when used. Which has very specific text related to the goddess on it. Dark Magic uses a completely different set of symbols and functions, so it is almost entirely likely it is man-made. Dorothea also talks abbout how nobles view magic as their goddess-granted right at some point. EDIT: Twice in a row? Seriously...?
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Jun 14, 2020 23:31
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chiasaur11 posted:She's annihilating the hereditary system of power that's been running continually in Fodland for a thousand plus years with a non-hereditary one based on ability, including a public education system and government service examinations. That's a pretty big change! Except she doesn't, though. -Who's Prime Minister when she wins the war? Oh, it's FERDINAND VON AEIGER. Who's that, the son of the last Prime Minster? Why wasn't it, say, Hubert? -Who's the Minister of the Military Affairs when the war ends? Why, it's Caspar von Bergliez. Wait, wasn't his dad in the exact same position? chiasaur11 posted:Trying to write it off with "LOL, someone could ignore all the changes (including the ones presumably put in play to prevent removing the new system)" is basically the same as saying that none of it matters because Fodland was annihilated by the STMC five minutes after the last epilogue played out. Sure, there's nothing in the game saying that it can't happen, but it's another devil's proof. Fair, though I'm pretty sure 'I choose my successor' was how hereditary nobility got started in the first place. chiasaur11 posted:El also, despite having a hereditary position, starts with very little actual power due to both Rhea and the Slithers. She also launches an assault against the central church, the one group accepted as being more powerful than the empire. A noble going against more powerful nobles can be a revolutionary, after all. Just ask Gilbert du Motier. Sure, I'll grant Rhea. It's a shame she doesn't stop there, though. Edelgard forces her puppet father to abdicate, she cleans out non-loyalists almost instantly, and no one from the theoretically super-powerful seven ministers or the Slitherers care, and the Slitherers don't even show up in her route. Yeah, that's 'very little actual power' to me. And yes, nobles can be revolutionary, but Gilbert du Motier was not the second most powerful woman in Fodlan.
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Jun 14, 2020 23:41
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Airspace posted:Except she doesn't, though. Not if Ferdie marries Manuela
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Jun 14, 2020 23:46
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Not if Ferdie marries Manuela Huh. That's pretty neat!
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Jun 14, 2020 23:49
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Airspace posted:Except she doesn't, though. Manuela can become the Prime Minister too. Also Ferdinand's situation during CF is very random. Caspar very specificlly wasn't in line to become Minister of Military Affairs. Both of them actually earn their positions rather than having it thrown upon them solely by inheritance. I have no idea how anyone can read Edelgard forces her father to abdicate when he willingly hands over his crown with his blessing. Edelgard cleans house because she's been busting her rear end off to do this (off-screen) to get as much personal power as she could under everyone's notice for the war to come. She had no power but garnered it by working around the yoke on her neck.
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Jun 14, 2020 23:50
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Airspace posted:Except she doesn't, though. The Prime Minister I feel is addressed sufficiently in supports. Ferdinand has devoted his entire life to his future position, and there aren't exactly any other candidates as nobody else had much reason to try to fill the role. Edelgard plans to remedy this by abolishing the nobility and instituting a system of education to prepare future civic leaders, but at the time the war ends, Ferdinand is literally the only candidate. Hubert is already a minister (I wanna say Interior) when Edelgard first takes the throne. It's never explicitly stated, but I also like to imagine Edelgard is desperately searching for better candidates until she finally realizes Ferdinand's worth. I am convinced her initial job offer to Byleth before they're made a professor involves grooming them to replace Ferdinand.
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Jun 15, 2020 00:05
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Hubert is Minister of the Imperial Household, which is a position that I believe is either based on an existing title in name only or is entirely fictional; the game text suggests it's a mixture of spymaster and similar work. So yeah, he already has a job and being the Prime Minister would make it a lot harder.
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Jun 15, 2020 00:19
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Airspace posted:Huh. That's pretty neat! Manuela becomes PM instead, Edelgard's final FU
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Jun 15, 2020 00:23
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Airspace posted:Sure, I'll grant Rhea. It's a shame she doesn't stop there, though. And the reason why "no-one" cares is because she's spent the last few months (you find this out through monastery dialogue such as Caspar's "Hey, Professor. Did you see that my father came by during the Battle of the Eagle and Lion? He left soon after, but I saw him talking to Edelgard first. I wonder what they could have to talk about." or Linhardt's "However, it seems that both my father and Caspar's are supporting Edelgard... Having both the Minister of Domestic Affairs and Minister of Military Affairs on your side gives you total control over the Empire's military and finances. They must have been making preparations for quite some time without anyone noticing...") making sure that the army and the treasury are 100% behind her. Out of the Insurrectionists (of which there are 6 total, not 7 by the way: the 7th is Hrym which was the trigger for the Insurrection but not actually involved), she has the backing of the most important two, the PM instantly is locked up, Arundel doesn't care what minor power games beasts are playing (ie Thales is too arrogant to care and believes Agarthans will win no matter what), which leaves only Varley as minister for Religion and Vestra as Imperial Household. These roles are not exactly in a position to do much against her with military+treasury support, especially once Hubert ganks his dad.
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Jun 15, 2020 00:47
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I do wonder what is up with Caspar's and Linhardt's Dads. We know they were part of the coup that neutered the Imperial Throne, yet they end up siding with Edelgard who wants to create a super-centralized state at the cost of the ministers. and events that play out during the routes show that they were not Dubstep Molemen. So you can't use body snatching to explain this sudden change of heart.
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Jun 15, 2020 01:47
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Slitherer blackmail or being really into the idea of Adrestian expansion (which I think Ferdinand mentions as being a thing among the Adrestian nobility)?
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Jun 15, 2020 01:53
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I can also see it as them just seeing where the focus of power is moving and going along with the person who is quietly setting herself up to be queen shitkicker of gently caress mountain (or, more specifically, staying out of her way so they keep their cushy jobs for longer). They don't seem to be terribly loyal types.
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Jun 15, 2020 02:02
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galagazombie posted:I do wonder what is up with Caspar's and Linhardt's Dads. We know they were part of the coup that neutered the Imperial Throne, yet they end up siding with Edelgard who wants to create a super-centralized state at the cost of the ministers. and events that play out during the routes show that they were not Dubstep Molemen. So you can't use body snatching to explain this sudden change of heart. Caspar's dad (war minister) is IIRC first sighted negotiating with Edelgard in the aftermath of the Eagle and Lion battle, so it's possible that he was using that as scouting out Edelgard and potential opposition strength. He might have been brought on for the military glory if what he saw convinced him that the Empire lead by Edelgard could take the others. Lin's dad is more of an unknown factor. It could be glory, it could be potential future wealth, it could be self preservation and cowardice, it could even be guilt or actually coming around to her reforms. Shinji117 fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Jun 15, 2020 |
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Jun 15, 2020 02:10
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Obviously it's because Caspar's dad was already on board, and as we all know, Caspar's dad could totally beat up Linhardt's dad.
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Jun 15, 2020 02:21
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Cattail Prophet posted:Obviously it's because Caspar's dad was already on board, and as we all know, Caspar's dad could totally beat up Linhardt's dad. It's this one, you solved it.
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Jun 15, 2020 02:23
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galagazombie posted:I do wonder what is up with Caspar's and Linhardt's Dads. We know they were part of the coup that neutered the Imperial Throne, yet they end up siding with Edelgard who wants to create a super-centralized state at the cost of the ministers. and events that play out during the routes show that they were not Dubstep Molemen. So you can't use body snatching to explain this sudden change of heart. Looking things up, it seems Caspar's dad wasn't part of the coup. Helps explain why his house was completely exempt from the purges that the rest of the Empire went through, and why Edelgard kept dumping more work on him. "You're the only major noble who isn't responsible for the death of my nine brothers and sisters" is a pretty good selling point when deciding who you trust.
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Jun 15, 2020 03:02
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chiasaur11 posted:Looking things up, it seems Caspar's dad wasn't part of the coup. Helps explain why his house was completely exempt from the purges that the rest of the Empire went through, and why Edelgard kept dumping more work on him. Huh, you're right. I was mixing up Caspar's dad with Gerth. That explains a bit.
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Jun 15, 2020 03:12
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chiasaur11 posted:Looking things up, it seems Caspar's dad wasn't part of the coup. Helps explain why his house was completely exempt from the purges that the rest of the Empire went through, and why Edelgard kept dumping more work on him. It's also important to remember that most of what we hear about Count Bergliez is positive. Caspar is scared to death of him, but we never really learn why and it comes across to me as him being an overly strict father rather than being a terrible one like Bernadetta's, and other than that we know he's a great commander, not only in terms of military strategy but also in how much he cares for his subordinates, enough to allow himself to be taken down if it meant his subordinates would be let go in the non-CF routes. We know nothing about Linhardt's dad though, at least I don't remember much being said of him, so at best we can guess he may be a decent guy since Linhardt never speaks against him and he's usually honest about what he thinks of people, even if they're over him in rank (he had no issues ignoring and criticizing Edelgard in supports, for instance), and the fact that we know he's close to Caspar's dad. Other than Those Who Slither in the Dark, who she can't do much about, Edelgard seems to want to surround herself with mostly good people. She gets rid of the counts we know are undeniably evil (Ferdinand's dad, Bernadetta's dad, Hubert's dad) while heavily wanting Byleth to stay by her side (which happens or not depending on route, obviously).
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Jun 15, 2020 04:05
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With Casper's dad that fear is definitely out of respect for his fighting abilities.
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Jun 15, 2020 04:22
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Becoming a tea person.
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Jun 15, 2020 04:34
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Blaze Dragon posted:It's also important to remember that most of what we hear about Count Bergliez is positive. Caspar is scared to death of him, but we never really learn why and it comes across to me as him being an overly strict father rather than being a terrible one like Bernadetta's, and other than that we know he's a great commander, not only in terms of military strategy but also in how much he cares for his subordinates, enough to allow himself to be taken down if it meant his subordinates would be let go in the non-CF routes. Not quite; on non-CF routes, the last month's free days has someone mention that Edelgard purged all the corrupt nobles *except* Count Bergliez. So he's a corrupt noble, but Edelgard lets him go. Why? Was his power as minister of military affairs that powerful she was willing to overlook it to keep the army happy? Was it solely because he willingly sided with her? We just don't know. 
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Jun 15, 2020 05:32
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Melomane Mallet posted:Not quite; on non-CF routes, the last month's free days has someone mention that Edelgard purged all the corrupt nobles *except* Count Bergliez. So he's a corrupt noble, but Edelgard lets him go. Why? Was his power as minister of military affairs that powerful she was willing to overlook it to keep the army happy? Was it solely because he willingly sided with her? We just don't know. Do you know who says this? I can't find it in the scripts I usually look at, but it could be they missed someone. Note that if it's someone from the Church, then it should probably be taken with some salt given how Seteth just outright makes up what happening in the Empire ("Edelgard demanded her own father relinquish the throne, and then assumed the position of emperor", when nope it's clear he abdicated of his own will). The closest I can find is: Ferdinand: Half of the Empire's six great noble families have declared their support for Edelgard. Of the other three, Lord Vestra was assassinated. Hubert, his son, will succeed him. Bernadetta's father, Count Varley, is under house arrest. His wife is now supporting Edelgard. And my father...he was stripped of his role as prime minister. As as result, House Aegir has lost all of its power, all of its land. We have lost everything. I...I... What do I do? And Linhardt: The most important nobles in the Empire are known for taking power from the previous emperor, my father included. I didn't think it possible that the Imperial princess could ascend the throne so easily. However, it seems that both my father and Caspar's are supporting Edelgard... Having both the Minister of Domestic Affairs and Minister of Military Affairs on your side gives you total control over the Empire's military and finances. They must have been making preparations for quite some time without anyone noticing... The Insurrectionists were, according to the wiki, Aegir (PM), Gerth (Exterior), Hevring (Interior), Varley (Religion), Vestra (Imperial Household), and Arundel (Regent). Bergliez wasn't part of the group and, IIRC, isn't noted as especially corrupt? Ferdi tells of Vestra, Varley and Aegir being removed, while Lin says that Hevring and Bergliez allied with Edelgard, along with Thales and (presumably) Gerth (who, when he appears in Constance's Paralogue, makes it clear he's no fan of the Church).
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Jun 15, 2020 06:46
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Shinji117 posted:Do you know who says this? I can't find it in the scripts I usually look at, but it could be they missed someone. Note that if it's someone from the Church, then it should probably be taken with some salt given how Seteth just outright makes up what happening in the Empire ("Edelgard demanded her own father relinquish the throne, and then assumed the position of emperor", when nope it's clear he abdicated of his own will). It's a generic Archer/Sniper NPC who says the exact same line on all three non-CF routes. McTimmy fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Jun 15, 2020 |
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Jun 15, 2020 07:12
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Please tell me there is more than 1 dancer certification. I didn't realize that the ball was how you were going to get it.
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Jun 15, 2020 10:14
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Shadow225 posted:Please tell me there is more than 1 dancer certification. I didn't realize that the ball was how you were going to get it. Nope, you get the one dancer and that's it. Having multiple dancers would get very broken, very fast.
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Jun 15, 2020 10:16
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gently caress I DON'T WANNA MAKE HILDA MY DANCER
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Jun 15, 2020 10:22
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Hey, so where do we learn the origin of the Saint's crests/bloodlines in noble families? There's somebody who has a very wrong impression of that process in the LP thread, but I'm not sure if I can correct them. The LPer just finished Silver Snow, and will take up the other routes afterwards. I absolutely cannot remember where we got that reveal, and a quick search in what I considered to be the most likely updates didn't turn up anything.
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Jun 15, 2020 10:28
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Shadow225 posted:gently caress She'll finally get her wish of being a frail flower far away from the action! Not using a dancer is a perfectly viable strategy for the game, although when I've done that it was because I wanted sword avoid for my swordfighters. Petra is pretty much unstoppable with it. You could always change Hilda to Dancer when you want one and keep levelling her in other classes.
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Jun 15, 2020 10:46
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Torrannor posted:Hey, so where do we learn the origin of the Saint's crests/bloodlines in noble families? There's somebody who has a very wrong impression of that process in the LP thread, but I'm not sure if I can correct them. The LPer just finished Silver Snow, and will take up the other routes afterwards. I absolutely cannot remember where we got that reveal, and a quick search in what I considered to be the most likely updates didn't turn up anything. It has to be Verdant Wind, right?
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Jun 15, 2020 10:47
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I'm pretty sure it's verdant wind, yeah. There's a conversation in both that gets cut off in SS, but in VW Claude insists on finishing it, as far as I recall.
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Jun 15, 2020 10:50
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You learn the story of the heroes' crests/bloodlines in VW for sure, but I think the Saints' crests are mostly inferred. Possibly you do get told how House Hresvelg got the Crest of Seiros also, but I don't recall. Does Cindered Shadows elaborate on Jeralt's crest, or is that entirely inferred from supports and his mentioning he got a blood infusion at one point?
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Jun 15, 2020 12:41
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It's been quite some time since I played 3H, but Seiros shared her blood with the first Adrastian emperor, who took it willingly, right? Bur we get that info in Crimson Flower, now that I think about it. And the Saints' crests have to come about in a similar manner, since neither Indech nor Maculi had kids, and Flayn is Seteth's only child (and childless herself). So maybe you're right, and the game never outright states this. Which would explain why I can't remember where we got that information 
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Jun 15, 2020 12:50
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don't use a dancer and just use that sword avo skill to murder everyone.
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Jun 15, 2020 12:52
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The game never outright states that the Saint Crests got passed to the Empire by blood drinking/transfusions you just have to infer based on SS's ending. Same thing with the Apostle Crests.
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Jun 15, 2020 13:02
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Tired Moritz posted:don't use a dancer and just use that sword avo skill to murder everyone. So, those weapon avoidance abilities. I'm guessing they're only active when you have that specific weapon equipped, right? You can't just have that weapon in an item slot? Or if you have a spell equipped?
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Jun 15, 2020 13:10
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McTimmy posted:The game never outright states that the Saint Crests got passed to the Empire by blood drinking/transfusions you just have to infer based on SS's ending. Same thing with the Apostle Crests. Ah yes that's right, I forgot how much inference there is in the background info. I think it's that plus Alois's support with Byleth that gives you what you need to make that conclusion.
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Jun 15, 2020 13:20
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Everyone someone says Ignatz's name, it sounds like fignuts.
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Jun 15, 2020 14:08
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I swear I've read somewhere that at least according to church scripture, Cethleann gave her blood to people during the Nemesis war and that's how her crest ended up in the noble houses. Or maybe the scripture said she gave them her crest and I assumed it meant her sharing her blood. Some Linhardt support maybe? Or library stuff? Or I'm confusing it with Yuri/Balthus B, where Balthus digs up some information like that?
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Jun 15, 2020 14:14
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Rhea flat out tells you that she gave her blood to Jeralt.
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Jun 15, 2020 14:38
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https://twitter.com/eunnieverse/status/1272514196731764736?s=21 Why else would it be Edelgard’s Final gambit.
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Jun 15, 2020 15:34
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