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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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Rockit posted:"Innocent before proven guilty" applies only to the accuser silly. where theres smoke, there's fire rockit. women were accusing weinstein forever and a half too and they kept getting buried under "no solid evidence". we are under no obligation to give the benefit of the doubt to biden. when a man with his demonstrable record, who's bragged about getting arrested entering a women's dorm, is accused of raping someone, he should be dropped. especially when there's already claims from other women that he sexually harassed them. the office of president confers too much power to potentially give to another rapist, so he should be treated as one in this case and dropped from the dem ticket. sadly, he's gonna push through instead and dems that should know better are suddenly gonna start parroting republican talking points like "she changed her story! proof positive she's lying about being raped!!" and this whole thing is going to hang like a cloud over this contest
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Jun 16, 2020 22:52
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Biden won't win Texas. He'll probably come closer than Clinton or Obama, for myriad reasons, but he won't win. And even if he did somehow achieve the miracle victory there, how much it matters is dependent on how greatly that victory extends to the downballot. Realistically a win in a place like Texas potentially means a lot of split tickets, with R's doing fine downballot despite the state going blue. And of course Biden is encouraging that, actively telling Republicans to vote for him but stay Republican, and talking up the idea of inviting Republicans into his administration.
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Jun 16, 2020 22:54
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Biden won't win Texas. He'll probably come closer than Clinton or Obama, for myriad reasons, but he won't win. And even if he did somehow achieve the miracle victory there, how much it matters is dependent on how greatly that victory extends to the downballot. Realistically a win in a place like Texas potentially means a lot of split tickets, with R's doing fine downballot despite the state going blue. And of course Biden is encouraging that, actively telling Republicans to vote for him but stay Republican, and talking up the idea of inviting Republicans into his administration. and also saying that the republicans he knows are good people, and trump is an abberation and after he's gone the republicans will be ok to work with again
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Jun 16, 2020 22:55
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Raenir Salazar posted:I don't think this has anything to do with what I was discussing. I clearly didn't say any of this? PoC voters made Clinton the dem candidate, followed up with the additional victories making him president and making Obama the candidate/president. I would have thought that was obvious. PoC have been turning out for democratic candidates for decades.
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Jun 16, 2020 22:56
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Condiv posted:where theres smoke, there's fire rockit. women were accusing weinstein forever and a half too and they kept getting buried under "no solid evidence". To be clear that post was mocking other people's apologia. Regardless of this particular case you make fair points. I missed that women's dorm deal tho may you link it?
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Jun 16, 2020 22:56
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Raenir Salazar posted:It was literally suggested that Biden winning texas would be a massive set back for the left a few pages ago and no one dismissed winning TX as a fantasy then, I think the idea that Biden winning texas could further empower poc isn't far fetched, and has more logic to it. It isn't a fantasy either that Biden might win texas or win in a blowout, it's what polling suggest is a legitimate possibility of happening. It may not be a high probability, maybe 30%? Which is also coincidentally, the odds 538 had for Trump winning in 2016. Yes, I remember, I am the one who thinks that it would be bad for Biden to win a blowout and give energy to the worst people in American liberalism. Because I guaran-loving-tee that if Biden wins Texas it’s not going to be about the Latinos who came out to vote for him, it’ll be about those white suburbanites that the Emmanuels and Mooks of the world seek to bring into the Big Tent. You don’t appear to have actually understood my post, in any case. What I find fantastical is the idea that even this kind of blowout would result in a greater say for PoC in governance under Democratic rule. We saw a blowout in 2008 that resulted in a man named Barack winning Indiana. PoC did not get a greater say in government, just more empty liberal “representation” without, you know, actual representation.
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Jun 16, 2020 22:56
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joepinetree posted:I think that Biden lying about wanting to cut social security is relevant in terms of understanding whether he would want to cut social security. Okay, but is Biden lying about wanting to cut social security relevant in terms of evaluating his credibility in other matters?
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Jun 16, 2020 22:59
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enraged_camel posted:Okay, but is Biden lying about wanting to cut social security relevant in terms of evaluating his credibility in other matters? Here let me help you out: lying about policy directly applies to the job titled "US President." Lying about having a BA does not directly apply to the claim of "I was raped."
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Jun 16, 2020 23:01
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Rockit posted:To be clear that post was mocking other people's apologia. Regardless of this particular case you make fair points. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/05/22/fact-check-joe-biden-arrested-ohio-u-womens-dorm/5244339002/ quote:"I wandered in, I met this lovely group of Ohio University … students," Biden said to laughs from the crowd. "And, uh, without knowing it, I shouldn't admit this on national television because it'll reveal that I'm over 60, but I thought that we were gonna go get something to eat … so I just said to young, two young women I had met, said … 'Well, I'll come with you,' and they said OK, and I walked into their dormitory and was immediately accosted by a cop who arrested me because back in those days, men were not allowed in women's dormitories.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:03
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enraged_camel posted:Okay, but is Biden lying about wanting to cut social security relevant in terms of evaluating his credibility in other matters? Yes. Despite what you believe, this is not some great gotcha question.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:03
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Condiv posted:https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/05/22/fact-check-joe-biden-arrested-ohio-u-womens-dorm/5244339002/ That's not stalking.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:07
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One of the strangest comments Biden has made is the idea that it's inherently bad for there to be too many members of a political party in Congress, including the Democratic Party. This actually makes a little sense if it were specific to how too much control of the presidency, House, and Senate simultaneously allows a political party to subvert democracy. It's a symptom of the Constitution being absolutely broken that the American people literally can't get their agenda enacted these days without the side-effect of the president potentially being made completely unaccountable. I think the Constitution should be amended to give the opposition party in Congress subpoena power even when they're the minority in both chambers, or something like that. The only way I could have interpreted it was that he was using "Republicans" -> "a political party" -> therefore Democrats equally desire subverting democracy to gain power false equivalencies.Buzzfeed posted:Biden still promised he'd be able to "work things out" with Graham if they both wound up together again in Washington, DC, after the election. "Nothing's gonna snap back; we're in a totally different world," Biden added. But he said he believed there will be "serious consequences" for the Republican Party as Americans reckon with Trump. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...k&ICID=ref_fark I'm not really sure he was even referring to lofty checks and balances, though, and it's also likely from the quoted passage he just thinks it's bad for a political party to be able to pass too much of its agenda.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:08
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enraged_camel posted:Okay, but is Biden lying about wanting to cut social security relevant in terms of evaluating his credibility in other matters? I think that lying about social security is relevant to his policies regarding social security. I think that lying about being arrested seeing Mandela and lying about civil rights protests is relevant to his views on civil rights. I think that lying about his support of the Iraq war is relevant in considering what his foreign policy will be. I think that lying about the driver who killed his wife is relevant in considering whether he is willing to use his family for personal gain. I think that lying about his credential is relevant in evaluating his claims of achievements during his careers. Had he claimed to be a rape victim, none of the above would matter.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:09
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Pick posted:That's not stalking. What word would you use to describe "followed women to where they live and was arrested for doing so"?
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Jun 16, 2020 23:10
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Here let me help you out: lying about policy directly applies to the job titled "US President." Lying about having a BA does not directly apply to the claim of "I was raped." I noticed you are using the word "directly". Can you elaborate? What does it mean for lying about something being "directly" applicable, vs. indirectly?
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Jun 16, 2020 23:13
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Biden won't win Texas. He'll probably come closer than Clinton or Obama, for myriad reasons, but he won't win. And even if he did somehow achieve the miracle victory there, how much it matters is dependent on how greatly that victory extends to the downballot. Realistically a win in a place like Texas potentially means a lot of split tickets, with R's doing fine downballot despite the state going blue. And of course Biden is encouraging that, actively telling Republicans to vote for him but stay Republican, and talking up the idea of inviting Republicans into his administration. I don't think mass split ticket voting necessarily follows. Beto's campaign swung a ton of downballot poo poo, especially judges. Biden flipping Texas would be amazing for material change at local level.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:15
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Eminai posted:What word would you use to describe "followed women to where they live and was arrested for doing so"? Asking women who you're talking to if you can follow them thinking you're going to get a burger and having them say yes and then doing so with their explicit go-ahead? Uh, normal social interaction?
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Jun 16, 2020 23:16
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joepinetree posted:I think that lying about social security is relevant to his policies regarding social security. I think that lying about being arrested seeing Mandela and lying about civil rights protests is relevant to his views on civil rights. I think that lying about his support of the Iraq war is relevant in considering what his foreign policy will be. I think that lying about the driver who killed his wife is relevant in considering whether he is willing to use his family for personal gain. I think that lying about his credential is relevant in evaluating his claims of achievements during his careers. Had he claimed to be a rape victim, none of the above would matter. Perfect, thanks. So that means neither Biden or Reade has any credibility issues in this specific context, of raping or being raped (since their past lying has occurred in other, irrelevant contexts). So then the question that still needs answering is: why should we err on the side of believing Reade? Just about the only reason I can think of is "believe all women", and it is worth noting that "believe all women" does not mean that anyone accused of raping someone immediately goes to jail for 20 years or whatever. It simply means accusers should be taken seriously and their accusations investigated, rather than dismissed immediately. And the media has done quite extensive investigating over the past three months. The problem is that what they found (or rather, have not found) has made the NoJoe crowd extremely angry, and now anyone who dares to doubt Reade is labeled a rape apologist, because you see, Biden is absolutely a rapist, and the real problem is that our standards of evidence for proving guilt are simply too high, and we should just lower them when it comes to rape on the basis that coming forward as a rape victim is really hard. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 16, 2020 23:16
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Pick posted:Asking women who you're talking to if you can follow them thinking you're going to get a burger and having them say yes and then doing so with their explicit go-ahead? Uh, normal social interaction? Normal social interaction for me doesn't result in the guy I'm with getting arrested for following me home.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:19
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most of my normal interactions end with me being tackled by a cop, yea. Whomst among us
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Jun 16, 2020 23:20
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enraged_camel posted:I noticed you are using the word "directly". Can you elaborate? A direct applicable lie is associated with the matter at hand. If I lie about A, I am more likely to be lying about things related to A. For example, if I have a history of lying in the pursuit of power its more likely that I am lying when I am in the pursuit of power, because I am known to lie in pursuit of power. An indirect lie is not associated with the matter at hand. If I lie about A that does not necessarily mean I am more likely to lie about unrelated matter B. For example, if I lie about my bachelor's degree to get a job that doesn't have anything to do with lying about being a rape victim (unless it helps me get a job), except as a general strike against my character.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:20
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Me, being dragged away by a cop from the group I'm with: another normal day in the books!
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Jun 16, 2020 23:20
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Eminai posted:Normal social interaction for me doesn't result in the guy I'm with getting arrested for following me home. Lmao he just accidentally entered a building it turns out he wasn't allowed in. It has nothing to do with "stalking women". They apparently thought he was allowed too, they invited him along under no duress.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:21
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Pick posted:Asking women who you're talking to if you can follow them thinking you're going to get a burger and having them say yes and then doing so with their explicit go-ahead? Uh, normal social interaction? it seems to me that he was the only one that thought they were going to get a burger, if that's what he thought at all. dunno why he thought the burger would be in their dorms or why he entered a womens dorm upon arriving at a womens dorm and not at a burger joint. maybe their dorm looked like a mcdonalds?
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Jun 16, 2020 23:21
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One time I got confused and walked through the employee door of a Carino's, stalking some tortellini
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Jun 16, 2020 23:22
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they were living at the time in Shake Shack Hall, to be fair.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:23
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Pick posted:One time I got confused and walked through the employee door of a Carino's, stalking some tortellini was the employee door as visually distinct from the door you were looking for as a women's dorm is from a burger joint pick?
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Jun 16, 2020 23:23
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Pick posted:Lmao he just accidentally entered a building it turns out he wasn't allowed in. It has nothing to do with "stalking women". They apparently thought he was allowed too, they invited him along under no duress. yeah just "accidentally" entered a woman's home he wasn't allowed in, nbd as far as what they thought, do you have a source that isn't the person arrested for
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Jun 16, 2020 23:23
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enraged_camel posted:Joe Biden haters always bring up his record to make the case that he isn't credible and cannot be trusted with what he says today. You're drawing a false equivalence. When people call out Joe Biden for lying, there is a direct correlation to the lie. Example: Joe Biden in a speech today: "I am in support of X." 30+ years of Joe Biden's legislative voting record as well as speeches from previous years: "gently caress X. I do not support X. I have never supported X. I will never support X. I am proud to be on the vanguard of telling X to go gently caress itself." Tara Reade on the other hand: Her: "I was raped." Biden Stans: "She once bounced a check to her landlord. Clearly a lying whore who can never be believed about anything ever."
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Jun 16, 2020 23:25
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enraged_camel posted:Perfect, thanks. So that means neither Biden or Reade has any credibility issues in this specific context, of raping or being raped (since their past lying has occurred in other, irrelevant contexts). As I've said repeatedly, whether you believe Reade or not is beside the point. The issue isn't whether we'll ever know the truth. The issue is the full embrace of scorched earth against alleged victims. Once upon a time it was accepted within liberal circles that a victim's sex life was irrelevant. Now, even whether they were late on rent is apparently fair game.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:25
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at least in the college I went to every dorm had like three bespoke layers of signage, what with needing to be easy for drunk students at 2 am to find and all, so I am curious at which layer of 'this is clearly a residential building' he was at when he stopped thinking 'oh boy, burger time'.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:25
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Condiv posted:https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/05/22/fact-check-joe-biden-arrested-ohio-u-womens-dorm/5244339002/ It's not like sex pests can't do things by accident. enraged_camel posted:Perfect, thanks. So that means neither Biden or Reade has any credibility issues in this specific context, of raping or being raped (since their past lying has occurred in other, irrelevant contexts). Granted the fact i called out others arguments probably helped but reveals the issues is not "everyone is given this label""
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Jun 16, 2020 23:26
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Condiv posted:was the employee door as visually distinct from the door you were looking for as a women's dorm is from a burger joint pick? I used a hamburger as a humorous example of food, he did not specify hamburger. Why everyone is now obsessed with the concept of a hamburger is quite mysterious.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:26
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Pick posted:Lmao he just accidentally entered a building it turns out he wasn't allowed in. It has nothing to do with "stalking women". They apparently thought he was allowed too, they invited him along under no duress. That’s not how sororities work Pick. If you step across the threshold there isn’t some kind of man alarm that rings, summoning the police. If someone calls the cops on a white boy who isn’t doing anything and made a mistake, he doesn’t get arrested. E: my mistake, it was a women’s dorm. My point stands. rko fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jun 16, 2020 |
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Jun 16, 2020 23:27
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Pick posted:I used a hamburger as a humorous example of food, he did not specify hamburger. Why everyone is now obsessed with the concept of a hamburger is quite mysterious. ok, did the carino's employee door look as visually distinct from the door you were looking for as a women's door is from a restaurant? cause I've been to dorms (including old ones), and I've been to restaurants, and restaurants typically try not to look like dorms. kinda kills business if people think your restaurant is a women's dorm and not some place to eat.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:28
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rko posted:That’s not how sororities work Pick. If you step across the threshold there isn’t some kind of man alarm that rings, summoning the police. If someone calls the cops on a white boy who isn’t doing anything and made a mistake, he doesn’t get arrested. also this, Joe Biden is old as gently caress but he's not from the 1800's, there's not some magic alarm that goes off when a dude walks on and the swarm of Sorority Cops waiting in the guard towers fall upon him and drag him to state prison. You don't get 'arrested' for breaking dorm rules, you get told 'hey, get the gently caress out' and at worst a stern talking to from some house authority about respecting bounds.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:30
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Condiv posted:ok, did the carino's employee door look as visually distinct from the door you were looking for as a women's door is from a restaurant? cause I've been to dorms (including old ones), and I've been to restaurants, and restaurants typically try not to look like dorms. kinda kills business if people think your restaurant is a women's dorm and not some place to eat. Yeah lol because I wasn't paying attention But he never said he thought they were going to a restaurant, just said they were going to like grab a bite or something. People have food in their dorm. Or might stop by the dorm to pick up their wallet or whatever and then go get food. Literally nothing in that entire scenario as described fits any definition of stalking, anywhere. The most important criterion being the explicit consent of the women he accompanied, unless you think the word men belonged to the security guard and he owned them so they couldn't like give consent.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:30
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Pick posted:Yeah lol because I wasn't paying attention Because Biden is telling the story, Pick! Holy poo poo!
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Jun 16, 2020 23:31
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rko posted:Because Biden is telling the story, Pick! Holy poo poo! Yes, I'm quite aware that people here would tell the story differently despite not having been there.
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Jun 16, 2020 23:32
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Rockit posted:I don't think it inherently follows that he's bragging here rather than just telling about a funny goof he did. i mean, there's steps between "arrive at women's dorm" and "enter women's dorm". it's not like he was blindfolded and couldn't tell where he was going, that it wasn't a place you eat at, or that it was a dorm. maybe i'm just being too charitable to biden, but in his statement, he didn't go further than the entrance cause he was arrested. not cause he realized his mistake and left
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Jun 16, 2020 23:33
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