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Well, yes, of course it was a bug. I'm still not sure how something like that even happened.
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Jun 16, 2020 02:47
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IIRC the bug was that they constantly put on cloaks, after it was fixed they'd settle down to only a dozen or so
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Jun 16, 2020 03:07
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But the nudism wasn't a bug?
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Jun 16, 2020 03:11
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I might be misremembering, but I think cloaks counted as partial cover for both top and bottom slots, so wearing a bunch of cloaks was sufficient to satisfy clothing happiness (aside the need for shoes). While they may not have been 'decent' by some standards, they were perfectly happy as long as they got some boots to go with the ensemble. Dwarves...obviously have different cultural standards for a lot of issues. My favorite part is actually that wearing a shitload of cloaks was surprisingly good in terms of defense, since there were a lot of ablative layers any attack had to go through.
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Jun 16, 2020 03:30
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Cardiovorax posted:But the nudism wasn't a bug? like, the noble was specifically coded to wear that and only that
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Jun 16, 2020 03:34
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Zereth posted:The "dungeon master" is a dude wearing just a mask and a cloak and nothing else, what do you think is going on here
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Jun 16, 2020 03:36
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Cardiovorax posted:Toady doesn't strike me as the sort to do creepy BDSM exhibitionist jokes just for the hell of it, so yeah, I was wondering. Toady has a pretty juvenile sense of humor, at least did in the past. There was an old Bay 12 Games game called "I'm Voting For Myself" about avoiding get caught jerking off.
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Jun 16, 2020 04:01
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Telsa Cola posted:College professors are some of the most broken rear end people I have ever known and it only gets worse the more prestigious the university. They just need to cosplay being a normal human being for long enough to get hired, and not be creepy enough that students stop signing up for their classes entirely.
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Jun 16, 2020 04:08
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PublicOpinion posted:Toady has a pretty juvenile sense of humor, at least did in the past. There was an old Bay 12 Games game called "I'm Voting For Myself" about avoiding get caught jerking off. Relegated to the "Sub Games Area" of Bay 12 Games.
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Jun 16, 2020 04:34
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posted:
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Terrible Opinions posted:I thought that killing off the earlier ones prevented the later ones from showing up, but I'll admit I might be misremembering. Either way the exchange of coin for things dwarves required to live was a source of capitalism-induced despair as previously noted. It was great. If you had dedicated haulers they often couldn't make enough to live because they got paid per hauling job regardless of how long or heavy. Instead of having them haul an item from one end of the fortress to the other (like hauling rocks from the active mining area to the masonry area) you'd daisy chain several stockpiles so moving each boulder was actually 4 jobs instead of one. And if all else failed you could erect some useless levers connected to nothing and put them on repeat, with only your chronically poorest dwarfs having the lever labor enabled. Soldiers, nobles and mastercraftsmen get everything free. So if you have a useless cripple you assign them to the guard so they don't go broke. You could also assign surplus mastercraftsmen to be haulers to avoid the impoverished haulers problem. Housing was a real challenge. Sure, every dwarf would love an engraved room with high quality furniture, but the rent on those rooms was ridiculous. Most married couples could afford a decent room, but a lot of single dwarfs struggled. You needed tiers of rooms for the working class. Many could reliably afford a smoothed room with * quality furniture. The poorest would need a room with rough stone walls and no furniture above + quality. A dwarf can still get an occasional good thought from owning a - or + quality item, so - is definitely better than no quality for not much more expense. It was fiddly. Dwarfs would claim the nearest empty room, as they do now, but if they couldn't afford next months rent they'd be evicted until they could save up enough money for a room again. So if you wanted to have consistent results you would need to manually assign each dwarf to a room befitting their station. Otherwise you get poverty dwarfs picking a room they won't be able to afford for more than a month or two, and rich dwarfs claiming hovels that won't generate any happy thoughts. Blowing all their money on rent could also leave them with no money for clothing, food or booze. But all is not lost in this capitalist hellhole, even a penniless dwarf is allowed to eat the cheapest raw food and drink water. So if you didn't micromanage the situation you'd have a few dwarfs that were chronically getting bad thoughts for being evicted, bad thoughts from sleeping on the ground, bad thoughts from raw food, bad thoughts from tattered clothing, and bad thoughts from constant sobriety. And of course sobriety makes them work more slowly, so they make even less money. Meanwhile Lord Pantshitter is complaining you still haven't put a gold table in his dining room. 
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Jun 16, 2020 04:36
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Cardiovorax posted:Toady doesn't strike me as the sort to do creepy BDSM exhibitionist jokes just for the hell of it, so yeah, I was wondering. it follows that old medieval trope of the castle torturer a shirtless creepo with an executioner's hood, always having brands and other implements ready in red-hot coals, charged with the doing of horrible taboo things like interrogations and body disposal it made sense that if anyone could be asked to train dragons, it'd be the wild-eyed weirdo in the basement as for the profound quantity of cloaks... well, that was a funny coincidence in how garment stacking worked and the "uniform" apparently still having the cut-off conditions meant for someone wearing layers of garments like a normal person
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Jun 16, 2020 05:09
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Makes sense. Together with what Shady Amish Terror said about the coverage of cloaks, I can see how you get the Dread Lord No-Pants out of that.
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Jun 16, 2020 05:36
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Jun 16, 2020 06:57
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Excelzior posted:pretty sure the dungeon master was doing the Helicopter Dick continuously while out and about the fortress Telsa Cola posted:Friendly reminder that when liquid moves diagonally it looses pressure Never change, Something Awful, never change. Edit for some more content: https://funnyjunk.com/channel/dwarf-fortress/Huge+dwarf+fortress+comic+dump+/enczLra/ Economy (barrel of cats!)  Bugs (The dwarf word for "dagger" is "Urist".)  Technically correct and therefore the best correct. 
RBA-Wintrow fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jun 16, 2020 |
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Jun 16, 2020 17:40
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How do the new aquifers work? Do they generate water from aquifer floor now? I have a room completely walled off in a light aquifer but its slowly getting more and more water and I am extremely confused. Can a lower aquifer now flood upper levels?
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Jun 17, 2020 09:48
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Aquifers do not create water in diagonal tiles, but do create water in open tiles directly below them. Therefore, you will want to dig two z-levels below the lowest aquifer layer before continuing with your fortress. Does your room have (light) aquifer above it? Also, Sankis? Like, Boatmurdered Sankis? Honored to meet you!
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Jun 17, 2020 10:03
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RBA-Wintrow posted:Aquifers do not create water in diagonal tiles, but do create water in open tiles directly below them.
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Jun 17, 2020 10:07
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RBA-Wintrow posted:Aquifers do not create water in diagonal tiles, but do create water in open tiles directly below them. Therefore, you will want to dig two z-levels below the lowest aquifer layer before continuing with your fortress. I am he and thanks. If I channel out the floor of aquifer levels will it stop flooding lower levels?
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Jun 17, 2020 10:14
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PMush Perfect: I don't see how. The water just appears on the floor below. It does not fall or "move". I'm not great at mist generators, but I think mist is only caused by moving water. Sankis: I'm not sure. I've never tried. It sounds like it should work. But the more aquifer you dig out, the more aquifer-adjacent surfaces you create for more water to appear from.' Edit, the water is appearing from the floor of the layer above the room. Not from the floor on the layer that has the room with a flooding problem. RBA-Wintrow fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 11:10
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RBA-Wintrow posted:PMush Perfect: I don't see how. The water just appears on the floor below. It does not fall or "move". I'm not great at mist generators, but I think mist is only caused by moving water. AAAAA | | FFGFFF With A being the aquifer, F being the floor, and G being a grate so you don't drown your fort.
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Jun 17, 2020 11:14
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PMush Perfect, that should work. I have never tried it, but that is indeed 1/7 water falling 1 level so it should generate mist. Reading the wiki makes it look exactly like a stack generator for mist but without the moving parts. It might also work as a shower. I think the important part is that the aquifer does not make water. Empty space makes the water but can only do so adjacent to an aquifer*. https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Mist#Stack_generator *would the lowest layer on your drawing generate water to? It is below the aquifer floor of the top layer but not adjacent. RBA-Wintrow fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 11:19
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Is there any way to keep my crafters from dragging down whatever flux material they can find in the top layers of my base to make steel (before they start crafting), when I've got a load of it down there already?
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Jun 17, 2020 16:17
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Is it further away in x & y on the lower levels? Don't forget z axis isn't considered at all for pathfinding to resources.
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Jun 17, 2020 16:19
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Pharnakes posted:Is it further away in x & y on the lower levels? Don't forget z axis isn't considered at all for pathfinding to resources. No, the flux stockpile is right next to the forge, while the marble is at least 40 z levels up, and probably about 100 x/y away. He's coming from above though, so it's probably closer to his origin. I just want my dwarves to go to the forge before they start looking for materials.
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Jun 17, 2020 16:30
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Solvency posted:No, the flux stockpile is right next to the forge, while the marble is at least 40 z levels up, and probably about 100 x/y away. He's coming from above though, so it's probably closer to his origin. I just want my dwarves to go to the forge before they start looking for materials. So dumping your miners into a self contained workshop area and then just dropping food, supplies and flux via minecart could be a solution. The miners could then load the finished goods on a separate minecart that ships everything out to the part of the fort accessible via foot travel.
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Jun 17, 2020 16:36
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I love how the solution to "sometimes my furnace operators move stone from too far away" is to Cask of Amontillado the miners  I loving love dwarf fortress
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Jun 17, 2020 16:40
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Burrows should make this problem pretty trivial, no? Forges + stockpiles in one burrow that only has the smiths in it, if you want to focus-fire your haulers you could make another burrow with the source materials and the forge stockpiles and assign the haulers to it.
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Jun 17, 2020 17:38
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You can make a stockpile of the materials you want the workshop to use, then set it to give only to that workshop. If a workshop has connected stockpiles it won't draw from anywhere else.
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Jun 17, 2020 17:54
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RBA-Wintrow posted:PMush Perfect, that should work. I have never tried it, but that is indeed 1/7 water falling 1 level so it should generate mist.
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Jun 17, 2020 19:40
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It used to work perfectly fine with old aquifers, don't see why the changes should have effected it other than you don't have so much water you need to drain away.
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Jun 17, 2020 19:47
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Antigravitas posted:You can make a stockpile of the materials you want the workshop to use, then set it to give only to that workshop. If a workshop has connected stockpiles it won't draw from anywhere else. Awesome. I haven't played around with connected stockpiles before so this is a good time to try. reignofevil posted:So dumping your miners into a self contained workshop area and then just dropping food, supplies and flux via minecart could be a solution. The miners could then load the finished goods on a separate minecart that ships everything out to the part of the fort accessible via foot travel. While this is an amazing suggestion I don't want my magma forge area to become that much of a project. I have to play with minecarts more too. Thanks for all the suggestions, in return I offer you a glimpse into a famous dwarf within my world that I discovered via a pretty amazing legendary item: Silverwhetted the Cinnamon Stalactite Silverwhetted the Cinnamon Stalactite posted:This is a blue garnet crown. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It is encrusted with radiant cut blue garnets, cushion granite cabochons and oval jet cabochons and encircled with bands of cushion cut rock crystals and elk bird bone. This object is adorned with hanging rings of emperor penguin bone and granite. So Ezremem is an interesting female dwarf, with quite the mouthful of a name. She discovered both metaphysics (processes), and epistemology (justification), in the field of philosophy. Her life journey started off as a simple bee keeper, working her way up to cook, then a trapper, until finally she became a very successful philosopher. She must have been quite the dwarf, because she married 6 times (her longest marriage was to a spy), and went from a Baroness, to a Countess, and finally ending as a Duchess of the dwarven civilization. She apparently was so influential, that she was offered three different legendary items, one of which (a legendary sword) became a symbol of authority within the civilization. I forgot how much I love the history that this game generates.
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Jun 18, 2020 00:23
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Antigravitas posted:You can make a stockpile of the materials you want the workshop to use, then set it to give only to that workshop. If a workshop has connected stockpiles it won't draw from anywhere else. This was one of my favorite additions, feature-wise. It made a bunch of annoying poo poo much more functional.
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Jun 18, 2020 01:10
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the dwarven economy was such a crazy disaster. you could probably write a decent paper on Dwarfitalism, as both a study of how horrible it was but also maybe a condemnation on how the common understanding on how fantasy or even normal-ish economies work is completely and utterly wrong. The state exists. It owns essentially all the capital; all means of production, and all products, are owned by the state. The state pays dwarfs to produce things; these wages are immutable. Jobs "pick" dwarfs; dwarfs have no say in what they produce, except that they get to take breaks whenever they want and nobody can stop them. All money the state pays out is created as needed. All money paid to the state is thrown into a bottomless pit, never to be seen again. Inflation is not a problem because the amount of money, nor supply and demand, has any impact on prices or wages. Dwarfs never purchase goods, services, or the labor of other dwarfs; all transactions are to and from the state. All goods are sold by the state. The quantity of goods has no impact on the price; the price is instead selected by an unelected official that hates all the fortress inhabitants but loves microcline flood gates. The quality of goods does impact the price point, but the quality is a universal, objective value. There is no use-value, no labor-value, no value aside from a drunken noble pulling little levers and screaming about random work mandates for materials that do not exist in the fortress. Only food is allowed to be purchased on credit, and then, only the cheapest food available. They will be in debt to the state, which has zero impact on anything. Despite the state never using this debt for anything, it will never be forgiven, but there is also never any sort of interest. All housing is state owned. Dwarfs have to rent housing. The quality of housing determines the rent price; yet again there is no sense of use-value or labor-value. Even if there are a hundred empty beds, or if there is only one bed that the dwarfs all have to share, the rent will not be affected. If a dwarf cannot pay for rent they get evicted and have to sleep on the floor or the barracks. Children are given the combined wealth of both parents, by the state, making children fantastically wealthy. The nobility do not pay anything, nor make any money. Tax Collectors exist and take taxes, but the money is thrown into a bottomless pit because the state just creates wealth as needed to pay labor. Dwarfs of sufficient fame (legendary dwarfs) also do not pay or make any money. These exceptions to not apply to their children, and as children cannot do any valuable labor but still have to eat and pay rent and taxes, the children of nobility and legendary dwarfs tend to be in constant, crippling debt. The money system can be backed with coins instead of just credit. The value of the coin is immutable. Using coins is not recommended because dwarfs will spend months shoving coins into their dressers for no actual benefit since the state keeps track of all wealth to perfect precision with no apparent overhead for doing so. This bold system replaces what is essentially anarcho-communism, and the only observable change is that dwarfs all have to eat poo poo and live in crap housing unless given constant, pointless busywork, resulting in unwanted goods that are either pushed off on visiting caravans or thrown into volcanoes. While this is at least capitalist in spirit, nobody really gets wealthy off of it so its just cargo cult capitalism at best. There is no observable benefit to anybody under this system except sometimes dwarfs get happy thoughts for having a gain in number. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 07:12
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Solvency posted:She discovered both metaphysics (processes), and epistemology (justification), in the field of philosophy.
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Jun 18, 2020 07:57
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I love this analysis and it's all completely true, but I would point out that 1) the nobles existing solely to immiserate the lower classes with most of them not even serving some flimsy societal justification for their own existence (and yet they're somehow usually tolerated by the teeming masses they beat and oppress) feels to me both hilarious and utterly consistent with the weird space logic that dictates dwarven civs, and 2) Armok is the god of blood, not finances It would be pretty great for some mild economic/civic flexibility to enter the equation at some point, but given that dwarven civs are black boxes that arise from nothing at the beginning of collective memory and immediately set about assigning kings and baronies while periodically building horrific traps and excessively complicated engineering projects based on the ineffable whims of the invisible forces that sometimes take command of frontier settlements, I'm pretty fine with their concepts of money and property also not making a lick of goddamned sense what-so-ever. Adds to the sort of 'horrifying whimsy' that surrounds a race where random Urist McCheesemakers sometimes become possessed by madness, murder a coworker to turn them into a cool hat, and this is not seen as a crime.
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Jun 18, 2020 10:02
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Well, even without the capital-e Economy being in the game, the game still has pretty silly economics. There's still arbitrary price points so you never have to worry about crashing the price of gold statues no matter how many of them you ship out. Meanwhile, around 5-10% of the fortress can feed the rest of the fortress no problem using just a handful of spores and a small cave with some dirt on the floor, and then another 30-40% of the rest can handle basically all production ever needed, including entirely useless positions like bookmaking and philosophers, so a good half to 70% of the population of a fortress can be full time dedicated military. Fortunately there are an awful lot of things trying to kill your dorfs so its not really that excessive. Tho I do think it kind of results in the difficulty curve taking a really sharp bank to flattening out once you achieve post-scarcity after year two-ish.
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Jun 18, 2020 10:47
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I just want there to be reasons to create elaborate vaults filled with tons of coins
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Jun 18, 2020 10:54
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Tiler Kiwi posted:Meanwhile, around 5-10% of the fortress can feed the rest of the fortress no problem using just a handful of spores and a small cave with some dirt on the floor.
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Jun 18, 2020 10:55
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The problem there isn't really the 30-40% in processing, its the raw production being only 5%, should be more like 50%. The things like philosophers and nobles could actually mean something, since sustaining economic dead weights would be really quite challenging.
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Jun 18, 2020 10:55
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I'm relatively new to DF so apologies if this post is not kosher with the thread vibe/style of posting. I have lost my first fort thanks to a necromancer and a handful of zombies coming in and basically starving me out to the point I decided to launch a last ditch effort to fight them off or die trying. I give you the virgin necromancers who killed me. 
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Jun 18, 2020 11:10
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