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Avalerion posted:Love that we finally got Maggie and Bonnie interacting. I kind of understand why we don't. Butcher's stated concept for Dresden, as I recall, was "Wizard Spider Man." Dresden is an powerful badass who heroically fights for good, but gets constantly disrespected because the universe takes massive craps on his life. Really, for my money, I'm looking forward to Ebenezer finally learning that "that thing" AKA Thomas is his grandson. I have been ever since I learned McCoy's relationship to Dresden. And I can't remember which book that was revealed in now.
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Jun 17, 2020 10:55
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Everyone posted:I kind of understand why we don't. Butcher's stated concept for Dresden, as I recall, was "Wizard Spider Man." Dresden is an powerful badass who heroically fights for good, but gets constantly disrespected because the universe takes massive craps on his life. Changes, I believe.
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Jun 17, 2020 11:33
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I think it's gonna come into the open in this book. Following up on how chapter 3 ends I predict the betrayal will be either from McCoy himself, or Thomas. I also think this is where the winter knight mantle gets passed to Thomas somehow.
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Jun 17, 2020 12:00
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Avalerion posted:I think it's gonna come into the open in this book. Following up on how chapter 3 ends I predict the betrayal will be either from McCoy himself, or Thomas. I also think this is where the winter knight mantle gets passed to Thomas somehow. I think that McCoy will betray Harry because he's attempting to ":save" him from Thomas. In terms of supernatural upgrades/alterations for Thomas I don't think the Winter Mantle works. Thomas doesn't do magic and he's already got his vampire stuff. I think a more likely turn would be him taking up the Sword of Love and the Sword's power burns the vampirism out of him or something. Think back to all of the stuff that Thomas has done (and endured) for the sake of his love for others - including and especially Harry. The Sword would be an interesting and, frankly, appropriate, fit for him.
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Jun 17, 2020 18:00
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That's would be a nice twist yea. Speaking of, I'm pretty sure that convo about Harry's gear is setting up him ending up with the blackstaff. 
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Jun 17, 2020 19:05
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Thomas certainly has a new motivation to drive some changes, but that seems to obv I ous, as does Ebenezer. A real shiv in the back would be Molly. My bet is Ramirez though.
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Jun 17, 2020 19:20
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Thomas certainly has a new motivation to drive some changes, but that seems too obvious, as does Ebenezer. Thomas doesn't really make sense because his various motives are still kind of old news and Lara, who is still very much large and in charge, isn't a fool. She knows that Dresden is an excellent tool for destroying enemies/competition and likely sees no upside to rocking that particular boat. As for McCoy, I can see a personal betrayal along the lines of him lying to get Harry someplace else so he can use his Black Staff to lay a couple upside Thomas's head without interference, but I can't see him betraying Harry politically. I can't see Molly because Molly pretty much takes orders from Mab now. And Mab doesn't need to betray Harry since she can just cut his throat and stick him in amber any time she wants. Meanwhile, Molly also has the example of the corpse of the last Winter Lady who tried to gently caress over Mab (and betraying her chosen Knight would qualify as attempted loving over). Ramirez... kind of makes a little sense. If nothing else he might well have some scars (physical and emotional) after what Molly did to him during their attempted boinking. I could see him blaming Molly for doing that to him and Dresden for failing to tell him what could happen (though probably Dresden did not know what would happen and Molly clearly didn't know what would happen either). Everyone fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 21:35
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It's obviously Ramirez, right? In Chapter 1 he showed up to tell Harry about the plot and implies that McCoy sent him to do so. Also Ramirez drafts Harry for Warden guard duty, which he states the Senior Council has given him full control over. Yet just a couple hours later McCoy himself shows up to tell Harry some more about the plot and muse that someone is trying to keep Harry and his allies away from the important vote. It is kind of shifty that McCoy was very evasive about proving his identity to the svartalves and also didn't enter the apartment until Harry gave him permission to do so. So he could be a glamored fairie of some kind. The ectoplasm accident right before McCoy appeared seemed like the author was reminding the audience about the existence of fairie glamors. It would have to be someone pretty knowledgeable about Harry and the council though, like Lea, Molly or Mab. I'm guessing Thomas will be tempted by some evil power to betray Harry in exchange for magical protection of Justine because it will be revealed that a vampire-baby typically kills its mother when born (Harry and Thomas' mom being the rare special exception). Molly would only betray Harry if it was a convoluted fake-betrayal to free him from the Winter Knight role.
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Jun 17, 2020 23:51
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Subvisual Haze posted:I'm guessing Thomas will be tempted by some evil power to betray Harry in exchange for magical protection of Justine because it will be revealed that a vampire-baby typically kills its mother when born (Harry and Thomas' mom being the rare special exception). First chapter Thomas goes over that: just over fifty percent either don’t survive the delivery or die shortly after”. Justine has already been feed on to near death once, who knows if that makes her chances better or worse, though.
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Jun 18, 2020 06:42
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Plus, Ramirez has plenty of history questioning Harry's motives and allegiances. It comes up a couple of times in White Night. Between seeing Harry torture those ghouls and how Harry can suddenly speak Etruscan to deal in white court politics, he spoke up a couple times about how weird all that was. I think there's been a couple of other times where Harry blew him off or was a jerk to him since then, too. I could definitely believe that Ramirez has come to see Harry as a threat to the council or is otherwise compromised and needs to be taken out.
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Jun 18, 2020 06:59
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One thing that's interesting about Harry's "Mab won't protect me" bit is that there are degrees and types of protection. I can easily see Mab letting the White Council know that kicking Harry out shows disrepect for him. And that by disrespecting her Knight, they are disrespecting her. Disrespecting the Queen of Air and Darkness can get you into considerable poo poo. Mab is nothing if not vindictive.
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Jun 18, 2020 13:52
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They could just spin it as "we don't think your vassal should be beholden to us, we are setting him free of his responsibilities so he can serve you fully".
Avalerion fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 14:02
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Mab contributes almost nothing of use to Harry but still smugly acts like everything went according to her genius plan after Harry pulls through by the skin of his teeth. Pretty accurate depiction of your typical boss.
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Jun 18, 2020 14:14
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Mab is the UrBoomer
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Jun 18, 2020 14:17
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That spoiler'd talk about Ebenezer not immediately nuking Thomas on sight is just another reason to not give a poo poo about the new book. Has anybody read any actually good urban fantasy lately? Somebody fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 14:37
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Hey cool just go ahead and talk about spoilered posts without spoilering it yourself. I get that you don’t like Dresden anymore and that’s fine, but some of us would like to go into the new book blind so at least respect that.
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Jun 18, 2020 14:39
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Daric posted:Hey cool just go ahead and talk about spoilered posts without spoilering it yourself. I get that you don’t like Dresden anymore and that’s fine, but some of us would like to go into the new book blind so at least respect that. When did public posted unspoilered preview material become spoilers?
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Jun 18, 2020 15:11
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The beginning of time? It’s in a book that hasn’t been released, it’s a spoiler.
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Jun 18, 2020 15:20
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biracial bear for uncut posted:When did public posted unspoilered preview material become spoilers? The forum rule is that we ask people to use spoiler tags on things out less than six months. That said It's not so much an enforced rule as a courtesy request. This makes for a slightly weird situation with Peace Talks as the first chapter has been out for, like, a years now? But the rest is new. That said, if you're reading this thread and care about preview-chapter spoilers, probably best to just go ahead and read the chapters. If something needs spoiler tags PM me or use the report function and I'll add them in, but if people can go ahead and use them that saves me the trouble of editing people's posts.
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Jun 18, 2020 15:38
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Daric posted:The beginning of time? It’s in a book that hasn’t been released, it’s a spoiler. It is literally promotional material published to drum up interest in the book. That would be like calling the "trailers" for movies spoilers in CD and crying for people to be probated for talking about material in the trailer without spoiler tags. Also LOL if you believe for one second the chapters as previewed are in their final edited form and aren't subject to being reworked if enough people gripe to the author about it. Hieronymous Alloy posted:The forum rule is that we ask people to use spoiler tags on things out less than six months. That said It's not so much an enforced rule as a courtesy request. It seems dumb to call my comment a spoiler given that Ebenezer was all set to nuke Kincaid on sight in a previous book and only stopped because Dresden physically got in the way. If Kincaid is subject to that reaction then Thomas certainly is. That isn't a spoiler, that's just expected behavior based on the lengthy work published so far about the characters. Ebenezer meets Thomas and doesn't react well is the dumbest thing to call a spoiler.
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Jun 18, 2020 16:59
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I fondly remember the days when this thread was ready to start using spoilers at the drop of a hat any time a new reader on any of ours series came in. We were nice, and welcoming, and enthusiastic about sharing our favorite stories with others. Whatever you're doing is the exact opposite of that.
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Jun 18, 2020 17:02
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ConfusedUs posted:I fondly remember the days when this thread was ready to start using spoilers at the drop of a hat any time a new reader on any of ours series came in. We were nice, and welcoming, and enthusiastic about sharing our favorite stories with others. When someone comes in and says "Hey, I haven't read any of this series at all" I'll spoiler things. That hasn't happened.
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Jun 18, 2020 17:17
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Peace talks hits in less than a month. Pretty sure those books are already physically printed and in a warehouse somewhere.
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Jun 18, 2020 17:17
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biracial bear for uncut posted:It is literally promotional material published to drum up interest in the book. That would be like calling the "trailers" for movies spoilers in CD and crying for people to be probated for talking about material in the trailer without spoiler tags. I know people who hate trailers because they spoil the movies. Ever see the trailer for "The Negotiator"? It gives away the big twist of the whole loving movie! There are people who aren't racing to the website to read the pre-posted chapters. Maybe they prefer to read it once its in their hands. Maybe they're audiobook listeners and would rather listen to Marsters. Maybe they just haven't gotten around to it. Whichever it is, they deserve not to have the early chapters spoiled, whether there's a "trailer" for them or not. And how hard is it to spoiler tag things? Do you have a hard limit on your keyboard strokes? Why not, when we're on the cusp of a book that people have been waiting YEARS for, go above and beyond and make sure everyone has the experience they want out of it? All we're asking is for a little consideration.
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Jun 18, 2020 17:24
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jng2058 posted:
Exactly. Don't be a dick about it. If people ask you to use spoiler tags, use them. People still use spoiler tags in the Wheel of Time thread when there's a new reader active in it. If nothing else, a big slapfight over whether or not you "should" be using spoiler tags derails the thread. Nobody comes here to read people argue about spoiler tags, so it's better for people to use them and not have the argument. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 17:28
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Oh man, there's a Wheel of Time thread?  The humanityEdit: Oh poo poo. You're an active poster there. Allow me to remove foot from mouth and crawl under a stone somewhere. tentacles fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 17:33
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tentacles posted:Oh man, there's a Wheel of Time thread? There is a Wheel of Time TV show from Amazon coming out (hopefully) next year, so it isn't ALL convoluted debates about a long completed book series. Just mostly. 
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Jun 18, 2020 17:48
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tentacles posted:Oh man, there's a Wheel of Time thread? Look, all of us make mistakes online
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Jun 18, 2020 17:48
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biracial bear for uncut posted:When someone comes in and says "Hey, I haven't read any of this series at all" I'll spoiler things. That hasn't happened. Dear biracial bear for uncut, Would you please be so kind as to find space in your busy day to add spoiler tags for things related to this content that I will not read until it comes out in book form? I find preview chapters to be an inferior way to consume new content, as circumstances would almost certainly require that I, a person who has limited free time for frivolous pursuits such as the written word, would have to spend that limited free-time re-reading the same content that I had read some weeks or months before. I find this to lower my enjoyment of the new content, although I had heretofore not realized that it did not lower my enjoyment nearly as much as taking even more of my limited free time to beg someone to use spoiler tags for said upcoming preview chapters. I appreciate all of the hard work and sacrifice necessary on your part to make my dream, whimsical as it may be, a reality. Love, ConfusedUs
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Jun 18, 2020 17:49
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ConfusedUs posted:Dear biracial bear for uncut, Sure thing. I'll be sure to put things like Dresden saying something sexist or racist in the new book in tags (even though I don't have to read the book to know that is going to happen) or Thomas being a rapist that should've been killed long ago in the series in tags because people can't read about the things that are literally put forward as reasons to enjoy the series without calling it a spoiler, because the only difference between me doing it and some of the rest of you doing it is because I make it clear I think those are bad things. I guess we should all never mind that the people constantly complaining about spoilers ignore the studies out there that say spoilers don't ruin the enjoyment of anything. Or if they do, it heavily depends on the amount of thought it takes to process the media (more of a "if you don't recognize X you won't appreciate Y" thing). (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 18, 2020 18:14
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Oh gently caress off with the "spoilers don't ruin enjoyment" poo poo. Let people make that choice for themselves. Don't point at some random study and Well Actually someone's reading preference.
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Jun 18, 2020 18:16
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biracial bear for uncut posted:I guess we should all never mind that the people constantly complaining about spoilers ignore the studies out there that say spoilers don't ruin the enjoyment of anything. Or if they do, it heavily depends on the amount of thought it takes to process the media (more of a "if you don't recognize X you won't appreciate Y" thing). Yes, we should, because it still annoys people in the moment.
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Jun 18, 2020 18:17
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You really deserve your AV and text.
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Jun 18, 2020 18:18
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I'm surprised people still engage with them to tell the truth. It always ends the same way: a meltdown and a probe.
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Jun 18, 2020 18:56
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jivjov posted:Oh gently caress off with the "spoilers don't ruin enjoyment" poo poo. I think it's important to note that science has proved these people are liars who are manipulating innocents by asking for spoiler tags for sociopathic reasons.
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Jun 18, 2020 19:08
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Just to make it clear because people keep falling back on that lovely argument: There is one specific study that keeps getting cited and the reason it gets cited constantly despite there being more recent studies is because it is used by assholes who want to spoil things and feel smug about it. The specific study was "If we add a seemingly unintentional spoiler *to the narrative of the story* for a short story does it negatively impact someone's enjoyment" and even there the answer was not 100% yes. There are other studies (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0163853X.2016.1141350 for example) which found (to quote): "We found that spoilers presented before a story reduced enjoyment, whereas those presented mid-story had no discernable effect." Shockingly that specific study is constantly brought up by people who haven't actually read it because they want to feel justified at being assholes to people. It turns out that a study of "does a story that reveals twists or endings within the confines of the story itself" does not actually apply 100% and without question to "all spoilers ever." In fact, delightfully, it doesn't even always apply to people. Other studies have shown that even a preference for being spoiled does not universally translate into a greater enjoyment of spoiled stories and also that people have different psychological profiles which impact what effect being spoiled may have on them personally. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 19:20
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Proteus Jones posted:It always ends the same way: a meltdown and a probe. I understand <= 1 day probes for small things like this initially, but if someone just keeps at it over and over kinda seems like the probe duration should escalate until they either get the point and change their behavior, or are just probed for so long they can't be instigating slapfights very much anymore.
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Jun 18, 2020 19:39
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As long as this thread is rehashing the extremely enlightening spoiler debate for the millionth time does anyone have any opinions theyd like to share regarding circumcision or restaurant tipping?
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Jun 18, 2020 19:46
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Ah cyclical thread subject rehashing. It's just like the Dresden thread of yore. I had forgotten what it looked like on the account of it being...6?!? years since a new release. I should probably exit the thread until release since I don't like reading the preview chapters. (but I am dumb so here I am)
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Jun 18, 2020 19:50
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We just enjoy beating dead horses around here.
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Jun 18, 2020 19:53
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