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So a question about Apuestas matches: If somebody loses their mask and comes back with a different mask does the crowd know it's them?
ChrisBTY fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 02:40
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ChrisBTY posted:So a question about Apuestas matches: If somebody loses their mask and comes back with a different mask does the crowd know it's them? Re-masking is extremely frowned upon in Mexico which is why only lovely American promotions do it
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Jun 17, 2020 03:08
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Benne posted:Re-masking is extremely frowned upon in Mexico which is why only lovely American promotions do it this is la park's third mask, he lost his first in the late 80s
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Jun 17, 2020 03:09
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Vagabundo posted:Jeff Jarrett and Greg Gagne absolutely do not belong in any discussion about who the worst wrestleson ever was. Smoking Crow posted:this is la park's third mask, he lost his first in the late 80s
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Jun 17, 2020 03:37
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Benne posted:Re-masking is extremely frowned upon in Mexico which is why only lovely American promotions do it You can re-mask under a new gimmick. Lots of guys do it and they barely even change their styles. And after a certain amount of time (like 8 or 12 years?) you can ask the lucha commission to re-mask under your old gimmick. I think this generally involves a pay-off. Some of the guys that lost their masks in WCW re-masked relatively quickly and it was generally understood that they had the money to make it happen and the fans didn’t care because WCW treated the luchadors with disrespect.
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Jun 17, 2020 03:57
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Cena's career arc is an odd one. In 2011 he can't quite carry someone to a great main event (see Mania 27), but he can rise to the level of an opponent like Punk. I have trouble remembering just when he started to really go to the next level, perhaps around 2014. (The matches he had with Orton weren't great but that was because by that point he'd faced Randy Orton some 10,000 times.)
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Jun 17, 2020 05:22
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Maxwell Lord posted:Cena's career arc is an odd one. In 2011 he can't quite carry someone to a great main event (see Mania 27), but he can rise to the level of an opponent like Punk. I have trouble remembering just when he started to really go to the next level, perhaps around 2014. (The matches he had with Orton weren't great but that was because by that point he'd faced Randy Orton some 10,000 times.) That's because there no such thing as Big Match Randy, he just never had thing to be the shoulders of the epic champion. Not helped by that he had to be taught his pattern on Triple H main events. I can't name a single main event feud in WWE's 2000s-Now that was Randy Orton as being the other half of the key piece... except Randy Orton himself and I can't even tell you what his big feud was either.
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Jun 17, 2020 05:27
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Maxwell Lord posted:Cena's career arc is an odd one. In 2011 he can't quite carry someone to a great main event (see Mania 27), but he can rise to the level of an opponent like Punk. I have trouble remembering just when he started to really go to the next level, perhaps around 2014. (The matches he had with Orton weren't great but that was because by that point he'd faced Randy Orton some 10,000 times.) I don't think anyone could carry a concussed Miz to a good match
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Jun 17, 2020 05:40
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I thought Miz only got concussed near the end, that was why they did the "countout" part of the finish (though Rock was obviously always supposed to interfere so it would've been badly booked anyway.)
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Jun 17, 2020 05:54
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Lid posted:That's because there no such thing as Big Match Randy, he just never had thing to be the shoulders of the epic champion. Not helped by that he had to be taught his pattern on Triple H main events. I can't name a single main event feud in WWE's 2000s-Now that was Randy Orton as being the other half of the key piece... except Randy Orton himself and I can't even tell you what his big feud was either. I'd say Orton really nailed it in his 2009 feud with Trips (despite that drizzling poo poo Mania match) and the 2011 series with Christian.
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Jun 17, 2020 07:42
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Lid posted:Theres a right and a wrong way not to comment on Cena here but think about when for example Seth Rollins stops selling. It doesnt come across as a fiery comeback as much as it might not have ever happened. I think their issue was Sting was fighting spirit whereas Cena was "time to make my comeback". he sells that you son of a bitch
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Jun 17, 2020 08:28
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Hirez posted:John Cena is Albanian Their chief export is aluminum.
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Jun 17, 2020 13:03
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I was looking at old Observer Awards, how come "Bob Backlund as WWF Champion" won Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic in 82? Was there actually something disgusting or did voters just really hate Backlund?
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Jun 17, 2020 14:59
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Stanfield posted:I was looking at old Observer Awards, how come "Bob Backlund as WWF Champion" won Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic in 82? Was there actually something disgusting or did voters just really hate Backlund? https://twitter.com/allan_cheapshot/status/1059934849476243456 Bob was a nice guy, but I don't think people had much reason to cheer after a few years.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:06
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Someone should figure out the conversion rate from "Years as Champion" to the "Months as Champion" we have now. If it took four years for people to start hating a champion they otherwise liked, what's the same timeframe today?
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Jun 17, 2020 15:16
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Someone should figure out the conversion rate from "Years as Champion" to the "Months as Champion" we have now. If it took four years for people to start hating a champion they otherwise liked, what's the same timeframe today? Three tweets.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:55
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Someone should figure out the conversion rate from "Years as Champion" to the "Months as Champion" we have now. If it took four years for people to start hating a champion they otherwise liked, what's the same timeframe today? CobiWann posted:Three tweets. j-ru i know this isn't the WWE thread but can you add this to your favorite posts list anyway because 
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Jun 17, 2020 19:22
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It took a lot longer to get tired of champions when you only saw them in your town once every few months and they weren't filling 8 hours of TV a week with a constant social media presence
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Jun 17, 2020 22:32
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The big feds (AWA, WWF, the NWA World title) had long title reigns, but if you look at the major regional promotions, Mid-South, Mid-Atlantic, Georgia, they did not have long title reigns. Something like a 6 month reign would be the outlier. Wrestlers weren't champion long enough for fans to get sick of them.
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Jun 17, 2020 23:09
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Davros1 posted:The big feds (AWA, WWF, the NWA World title) had long title reigns, but if you look at the major regional promotions, Mid-South, Mid-Atlantic, Georgia, they did not have long title reigns. Something like a 6 month reign would be the outlier. Wrestlers weren't champion long enough for fans to get sick of them. If wrestling had a 'season', and the champion was the sort of end boss, it would make sense for Lesnar to be champ for a year, to string along the face challenger; and at the end of the season, the good guy wins or Lesnar escapes to another year on top.
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Jun 18, 2020 01:46
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Stanfield posted:I was looking at old Observer Awards, how come "Bob Backlund as WWF Champion" won Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic in 82? Was there actually something disgusting or did voters just really hate Backlund? With The Monster, the specific reason it was picked—though I'm not even sure how that works because there was no Observer until over a year afterwards—was that the promotion was claiming to have been behind the monster being built in a lab, not a heel manager. Times have changed.
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Jun 18, 2020 03:55
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I've asked this before in historical WON awards, especially in runner ups, but I don't think I've had a clear answer how this happened: ROOKIE OF THE YEAR 1. Daichi Hashimoto (552) 3,018 2. Uhaa Nation (23) 650 3. Takumi "Sho" Soya (24) 509 4. Obariyan (17) 315 5. Archibald Peck (15) 242 6. Fenix (3) 235 7. Dragon Lee (11) 185 8. Tommaso Ciampa (15) 111 9. Mike Dalton (2) 78 10. Dark Dragon 72 How did Daichi Hashimoto of all people crush the award in 2011 over Uhaa Nation, SHO, loving FENIX, Dragon Lee I (now the current Mistico), and Tommaso Ciampa? Like he got 552 votes and second place was 23.
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Jun 18, 2020 04:09
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it's because of the hashimoto part
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Jun 18, 2020 04:13
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Lid posted:I've asked this before in historical WON awards, especially in runner ups, but I don't think I've had a clear answer how this happened: One person was well known, the others were not.
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Jun 18, 2020 04:16
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My understanding is that WWWF (even into Vince Jr's tenure) was an outlier in that it was heavily focused on babyface title holders taking on all comers. From the introduction of the WWWF title in 1963 through the day Hulk Hogan won his first WWF title, the belt was on a babyface for a combined 7,202 days (19 years, nine months) and on a heel for 376 days, just over a year. All but 80 of those days were part of Superstar Billy Graham's run in 1997-1978 before Bob Backlund beat him. Unless I'm missing a turn, no heel title reign lasted over 100 days again until Yokozuna held the belt for over nine months in 1993-1994. There were other long-reigning champions in other territories (Verne Gagne and Nick Bockwinkel each had two reigns with the AWA title that combined encompass the entire title picture from 1968-1982, Fritz von Erich would hold the WCCW belt for years at a time ) with the McMahons lucked into Bruno and later Hogan who had the size and star power to support the Superman push, and they've never really given up chasing that dragon if you discount the 1990s as an outlier with the steroid trials on one end and Monday Night Wars/Crash TV on the other.
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Jun 18, 2020 04:23
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rare Magic card l00k posted:One person was well known, the others were not. Yeah but thats the definition of a rookie, and it was such an insane blowout it looks like he had the greatest rookie year ever. The year before it was won by Adam Cole and the year after by Dinastia (who got less votes than second place Mr Touchdown). I can't see any other rookie getting anything close to 500 votes maybe even 400.
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Jun 18, 2020 04:24
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Lid posted:I've asked this before in historical WON awards, especially in runner ups, but I don't think I've had a clear answer how this happened: Ciampa was not very good, Uhaa Nation was in lower level indies for most of the year and did a few Dragon Gate shows, that's not the New Japan SHO, he wrestled in All Japan in a year not a lot of people watched it. Fenix had some exposure in AAA but it was mostly in openers and dark matches and CMLL was in a really down period so not a lot of people were watching. Daichi on the other hand was the son of one of the biggest stars in the history of the business, got a big push out of the gate and was wrestling lots of big names. He had a ton of hype and seemed like he had promise. It was a big year for a rookie compared to the others on this list who didn't really have big years.
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Jun 18, 2020 04:28
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Edge & Christian posted:My understanding is that WWWF (even into Vince Jr's tenure) was an outlier in that it was heavily focused on babyface title holders taking on all comers. From the introduction of the WWWF title in 1963 through the day Hulk Hogan won his first WWF title, the belt was on a babyface for a combined 7,202 days (19 years, nine months) and on a heel for 376 days, just over a year. All but 80 of those days were part of Superstar Billy Graham's run in 1997-1978 before Bob Backlund beat him. Unless I'm missing a turn, no heel title reign lasted over 100 days again until Yokozuna held the belt for over nine months in 1993-1994. It's crazy how they went from that to basically a heel territory where you rarely see a babyface have an extended reign where they look good. Even someone like Punk who had so much fan support had to turn heel during his super long reign. I think Drew is doing a great job but folks could turn on him too, I don't see why though the guy is a workhorse and he's cool.
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Jun 18, 2020 04:29
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Lid posted:I've asked this before in historical WON awards, especially in runner ups, but I don't think I've had a clear answer how this happened: Looking at Daichi's cagematch and just looking at 2011, he was given a lot of time in tag matches with big talent whereas Uhaa has one Dragon Gate tour and some scattered matches in American promotions, plus that DG tour was late in the year going into December, so depending on what made tape (which was harder to get in 2011) he wouldn't have as much exposure as a guy who'd been working since March. Fenix mostly worked AAA undercards and dark matches. Ciampa worked a lot of indies and had 5 minute matches in 2011 ROH. Also Sho is a different guy, Takumi Soya retired a while back. E: f,b
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Jun 18, 2020 04:42
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With Rookie of the year you really just have to look at the year itself and not the whole career for it to make sense
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Jun 18, 2020 04:45
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SatoshiMiwa posted:With Rookie of the year you really just have to look at the year itself and not the whole career for it to make sense Yeah, there are a lot of Adam Morrison situations with Rookie Of The Year where a guy looks like a sure thing and flops while a guy who didn't look like much all year becomes the hottest thing on the planet and you look like a dummy in hindsight
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Jun 18, 2020 04:49
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I only saw Ciampa in ROH in 2011-12 and then not again until he showed up on NXT, and I can say safely that I'm impressed he even got 15 votes, he was the Enforcer for the Embassy and looked like the most generic OVW call-up in the world.
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Jun 18, 2020 04:51
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A few years ago, Braun Strowman and Kevin Owens were feuding on Raw and they did a bit where Braun crushed Kevin's rental car. Can someone please link me to the edit someone made where Sid's "22!? OH MAN! WHY ME!" is played over this? 
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Jun 18, 2020 06:55
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*whispers* Archibald Peck in 2011 was better than all of them (Also probably wasn't a rookie but I digress)
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Jun 18, 2020 10:46
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Deathlove posted:*whispers* Archibald Peck in 2011 was better than all of them The general rule for Rookie Of The Year is that they have to have debuted in their first major promotion and by that rule he shouldn't have been eligible until he started with ROH.
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Jun 18, 2020 10:54
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Eat My Fuc posted:It's crazy how they went from that to basically a heel territory where you rarely see a babyface have an extended reign where they look good. Even someone like Punk who had so much fan support had to turn heel during his super long reign. I think Drew is doing a great job but folks could turn on him too, I don't see why though the guy is a workhorse and he's cool. When the promotion itself is a heel then the champion has to follow suit at some point, I guess.
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Jun 18, 2020 12:29
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I Before E posted:The general rule for Rookie Of The Year is that they have to have debuted in their first major promotion and by that rule he shouldn't have been eligible until he started with ROH. the unenviable position of having to defend CHIKARA 
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Jun 18, 2020 13:54
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Deathlove posted:the unenviable position of having to defend CHIKARA I'm not even talking about quality, just in terms of prominence and drawing power it was never on the level of other promotions that were counted as "major promotions" for Rookie voting, at least at the time. Even now with more and more Chikara size promotions being accessible through streaming, Evolve is the only promotion of their size that's produced a Rookie Of The Year winner (Riddle), and that's combined with his PWG run at the height of their Super Indie status.
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Jun 18, 2020 14:07
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CHIKARA and ROH were drawing comparably at the end of 2011, and you could argue CHIKARA had more momentum when they shut down in 2012 Did we ever find out definitively why Quack shut down at that point?
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Jun 18, 2020 14:16
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Hedgehog Pie posted:A few years ago, Braun Strowman and Kevin Owens were feuding on Raw and they did a bit where Braun crushed Kevin's rental car. Can someone please link me to the edit someone made where Sid's "22!? OH MAN! WHY ME!" is played over this? I wonder if there's a list of every time a car has been destroyed/vandalized on a wrestling TV show. It's probably a stupidly high number. Of all the dumb things in wrestling, smashing cars would seem to be high on the list. It's done often enough it's not shocking, thus generates no heat, but costs a lot of money to do.
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Jun 18, 2020 14:20
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