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Guavanaut posted:starting the transatlantic slave trade. Think the Spanish had a head start on us for that one. Actually Cromwells actions in Ireland were fairly normal for the time when there was a religious and language barrier - English speaking Arminians got treated a lot better than Gaelic speaking Catholics. You see a similar dynamic in the Thirty Years' War which at It's worst made Ireland look like a tea party , but I guess noone still cares about Pappenheim. Edit: 111 is 7 in binary feedmegin fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 18:34
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Drone_Fragger posted:Also worth noting he ossentisbly started the civil war because the king was essentially doing personal rule via ruling by rump parliament against the “law” (the magna carta, lol) Um no. The King dismissed Parliament altogether and raised money by dubious prerogatives such as Ship Money, there was no 'rump'. Meanwhile Pride's Purge was Fairfax not Cromwell who was not yet Top Dog. Like um not to be rude but if you think Cromwell personally started the English Civil War you might want to read a book... feedmegin fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 18:38
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https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1273648894556213253?s=19
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Jun 18, 2020 18:41
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"Tories succeeded in turning out 2m more non-voters - mainly older white men, "leave minded", wanted to "Get Brexit Done" and/or stop Corbyn from being PM" gammons 
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Jun 18, 2020 18:48
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Oh dear me posted:Momentum chat: the elections are on and I'd like to solicit advice before I do anything irrevocable. I know next to nothing about any of them, and the 'questions to candidates' didn't reveal anything significant. I need to do a democracy on this, what are the relevant slates?
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Jun 18, 2020 18:51
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Marenghi posted:Lands confiscated, sometimes if they were lucky they’d be compensated but with much worse land in Connaught. Others sold to indentured servitude in Barbados. All Catholics barred from politics, barred from practicing religion. Mass rocks are still common around the country, stone alters in secluded areas where Irish practiced their faith in secret because public worship could get them executed. Other than the indentured servitude bit maybe, this all happened in England, too. Catholic emancipation wasn't until the 19th century in England. You still see priest holes in the occasional manor house, especially Northern, to this day.
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Jun 18, 2020 18:53
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I was always told that depictions of Lucifer with dark skin were because his fall from Heaven had involved him crashing down at such speeds he burned, thus 'Morningstar', and that his skin was charred black as a result. This could be either exactly the kind of weird thing that's true or it could just be a weird excuse to maintain a racist iconography.
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Jun 18, 2020 19:02
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Comrade Fakename posted:Even putting his crimes in Ireland aside (and we really shouldn't do that), it's weird that Cromwell is lionised here because he was also terrible for Britain. He was a brutal military dictator who was every bit as bad as any king, and even handed power to his son when he died. He was so terrible that they actually brought the monarchy back when he copped it. If he hadn't been so poo poo we'd probably be a republic now. What's interesting is how he swung from his name being dogshit in the Restoration, to some kind of resurgence of popularity in the late Victorian, especially among both the working class trade union movement and the emerging middle class, who seemed to regard him as a reformer. That's when all the statues got put up, and they seemed to have popular support unlike the slave man statue. More modern histories seem to place him as having far less personal control than his name gets credited/cursed for though, both at home and in Ireland. Still an enormous racist, in a manner consistent with most of the English Royalists who were conspiring to gently caress over Ireland in creative ways. feedmegin posted:Think the Spanish had a head start on us for that one. feedmegin posted:Actually Cromwells actions in Ireland were fairly normal for the time when there was a religious and language barrier - English speaking Arminians got treated a lot better than Gaelic speaking Catholics. You see a similar dynamic in the Thirty Years' War which at  Have any of those guys got popular reimaginings and statues though? (Genuine question, I don't know much about 30 years war reimagining in European popular thought.)I've read histories written by Irish Catholic priests that have pretty much said that his actions were consistent for an ordinary Englishman (which definitely doesn't preclude being a massive racist) and that ignoring atrocities by Royalists and pinning it all on the one guy simply gives him too much individual credit as a bastard, compared to say Palmerston or various Kings, who had a lot of agency as bastards. It was an old history though, so I'm not sure how that lines up with the modern take. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 19:04
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The entire cavalier class should have been executed. Every last one, yea even the little children.
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Jun 18, 2020 19:12
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simply love to come down with a heavy cough 2 weeks after being forced back into the office truly glad they decided to pack the place as full as possible having a nice chuckle thinking about how they've been showing visitors around big fun! great laff!
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Jun 18, 2020 19:14
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Simsandwich posted:Glasgow has seen a big rise in loyalist organising through an org called Scottish Protestants Against Discrimination off the back of a variety of public campaigns to stop Orange Walks in the city. This encompassed orange lodges, football casuals and the far right with a lot of intersection between the three. Its obviously a well developed communications network that was able to to outnumber us on the day. drat, sorry.- I hope you guys can get a similar network going, seems like it's gonna be important in the near future at least I'm gonna donate something, here's the tweet for if anyone else wants to! https://twitter.com/no_evictions/status/1273393580028170241
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Jun 18, 2020 19:25
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Ms Adequate posted:I was always told that depictions of Lucifer with dark skin were because his fall from Heaven had involved him crashing down at such speeds he burned, thus 'Morningstar', and that his skin was charred black as a result. I mean if I had to choose one  Lucifer not exactly looking crispy
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Jun 18, 2020 19:31
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Also the whole 'Curse of Ham' is that sin makes your skin dark and that's not exactly something with good historical consequences regardless of the original intent (the original intent was racism  )
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Jun 18, 2020 19:33
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the real Curse Of Ham is when an old white man swears at you about being willing to nuke things
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Jun 18, 2020 19:39
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https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1273648897911554053
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Jun 18, 2020 19:40
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Do you doubt those numbers or those conclusions? 'Corbyn was made unpopular by sustained media attack' and 'Corbyns unpopularity affected the Labour vote' aren't contradictory messages.
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Jun 18, 2020 19:42
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Angepain posted:the real Curse Of Ham is when an old white man swears at you about being willing to nuke things 
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Jun 18, 2020 19:47
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It was more a combo of "no difference between Labour and the Tories since Blair" like everyone wasn't crying about the extreme marxism BACK TO THE 70s, and "the report  mentions a correlation between disunity and Corbyn's unpopularity" like that wasn't a deliberate, prolonged, coordinated effort to force him out
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Jun 18, 2020 19:50
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TACD posted:For those people heavily invested in my partner's lovely boss and the time-travelling holidays: Good news! She sent the sternly-worded email yesterday evening and around lunchtime today got a reply from her boss in a tone I'd describe as business grovelling apologising for the misunderstanding and asking her to instead take eight days of holiday a couple of weeks from now, with uncharacteristically extensive quotes from company policy that implied he'd received a very serious talking-to from HR and/or the general manager for his cavalier loving about. Yeah! Nice to hear some good news in the thread. 
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Jun 18, 2020 19:51
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It's fine that there's now an official report into it but it was pretty obvious at the time that moving away from 'Labour won't gently caress up Brexit' absolutely derailed the parties overall messaging. I was saying in the middle of last year that Labour will lose a Brexit focused election and that's what happened. Not to say it was in the bag if they'd stuck with it but it was clear that more Leave voters were solely motivated by wanting to Leave than Remain voters solely wanted to remain - a "we're leaving the EU but investing and developing all parts of the UK with this list of policies" would have pacified way more of those voters that went Tory, even if they didn't vote Labour but just didn't vote, than "we might stay in the EU but that's okay because we promise this list of policies". Here we are though, and I'm of the opinion that Corbynite Labour in a weak position of power now would actually be worse so I'm not particularly upset all things considered. It's a very "A young boy gets a horse and the villagers say how lucky he is but the Zen master says 'We'll see.'...." sort of situation.
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Jun 18, 2020 19:55
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A young boy gets a horse and the villagers say how lucky he is but the Forensic master says 'We'll continue to hold the horse to account.'
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Jun 18, 2020 19:57
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baka kaba posted:It was more a combo of "no difference between Labour and the Tories since Blair" like everyone wasn't crying about the extreme marxism BACK TO THE 70s, and "the report I kind of checked out of campaigning for the last election as I was just sick of it all, but the few conversations I had, I still heard "they're all the same" a few times, even with all the crazy marxist chat. I tried to point out that there hadn't been two potential governments more different in living memory and was just pissing into the wind.
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Jun 18, 2020 19:58
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Guavanaut posted:A young boy gets a horse and the villagers say how lucky he is but the Forensic master says 'We'll continue to hold the horse to account.' Also the horse fucks the kid.
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Jun 18, 2020 20:03
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A Polish man forced him to.
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Jun 18, 2020 20:05
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Guavanaut posted:Yeah Pretty sure Munich has a Tilly statue. I'd be very surprised if Sweden didn't have some relevant statues as well. I don't think anybody who is not a huge history nerd cares about that period. Tells you how good statues really are at fostering historical interest.
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Jun 18, 2020 20:19
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Prince John posted:I kind of checked out of campaigning for the last election as I was just sick of it all, but the few conversations I had, I still heard "they're all the same" a few times, even with all the crazy marxist chat. I tried to point out that there hadn't been two potential governments more different in living memory and was just pissing into the wind. Oh sure, but that's a thing that people tend to say knowingly anyway. And it does say "long term trends" my comment was more about the "mentioning" the internal struggle to sink corbyn and the party through any means possible "correlated" with Corbyn's unpopularity though. Really looking forward to this investigation into internal sabotage let me tell you!
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Jun 18, 2020 20:28
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https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1273572986415714304
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Jun 18, 2020 20:46
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https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1273686048170745856?s=19 Full report is in the thread as well if anyone fancies a big read
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Jun 18, 2020 20:52
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Sadly it doesn't involve giving everyone £1500
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Jun 18, 2020 20:57
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where do they pump it to? I'm imagining some guy in a suit opening up a valve on a big pipe and banknotes just spraying out the end
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Jun 18, 2020 21:03
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Lmao 111 told us to do a home covid test, which can only be sent and returned via a courier service. Did the test (which is loving unpleasant) and the courier hasn't turned up to pick it up. Apparently if it's not sent today it won't be viable. Useful.
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Jun 18, 2020 21:04
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Well that's going to fill up the national credit card
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Jun 18, 2020 21:04
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kecske posted:where do they pump it to? I'm imagining some guy in a suit opening up a valve on a big pipe and banknotes just spraying out the end In this case probably the Cayman Islands though, because tories.
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Jun 18, 2020 21:05
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sebzilla posted:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1273686048170745856?s=19 That actually looks like a surprisingly measured report with some interesting conclusions in the summary.
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Jun 18, 2020 21:05
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stev posted:Lmao 111 told us to do a home covid test, which can only be sent and returned via a courier service. Did the test (which is loving unpleasant) and the courier hasn't turned up to pick it up. Apparently if it's not sent today it won't be viable. Useful. But they'll still count it as a test in the government figures 
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Jun 18, 2020 21:07
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kecske posted:where do they pump it to? I'm imagining some guy in a suit opening up a valve on a big pipe and banknotes just spraying out the end Afaik for this kind of thing it's usually used to buy government bonds Given the people who generally hold government bonds the effect is asset prices across the board rise
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Jun 18, 2020 21:09
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anyone got a link to the report as a PDF? don't fancy reading a thousand screenshots via twitter
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Jun 18, 2020 21:12
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Cerv posted:anyone got a link to the report as a PDF? don't fancy reading a thousand screenshots via twitter https://www.scribd.com/document/466134414/Final-Labour-Together-Report
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Jun 18, 2020 21:15
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kecske posted:where do they pump it to? I'm imagining some guy in a suit opening up a valve on a big pipe and banknotes just spraying out the end haha money printer go brrr
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Jun 18, 2020 21:20
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cheers
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Jun 18, 2020 21:22
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