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Darwinism posted:4E is right there and feels hurt by your ignorant statement Wait what. I've heard nothing of the sort, I know DM's can get bonuses they can cash in on their characters for items, but nothing about them being able to include other sources and the like. edit Looking it up: There are apparently some exemptions you can get through events and play mostly based around just playing different races from different books. Dexo fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 18:00
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https://twitter.com/DungeonCommandr/status/1273729531405197312 https://twitter.com/DungeonCommandr/status/1273729778760028160 Dexo fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 22:27
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 22:35
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Well, gently caress. I take back my optimistic take. Should've known better.
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Jun 18, 2020 22:39
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paradoxGentleman posted:Well, gently caress. Any statement that doesn't include the phrase "and we've fired Mike Mearls" in some fashion may as well be nothing. DC's just repeating what the thread has been saying, just with some extra internal experience.
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Jun 18, 2020 22:47
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I believe given those two tweets are one minute apart, that Orion Black is merely anticipating career destruction, not actually experiencing it. At least I hope that it takes more than one minute for that to play out.
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Jun 18, 2020 22:47
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 22:50
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Leperflesh posted:I believe given those two tweets are one minute apart, that Orion Black is merely anticipating career destruction, not actually experiencing it. At least I hope that it takes more than one minute for that to play out.
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Jun 18, 2020 23:14
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Wait I'm a bit confused. Wizards is poo poo but is the chain of events, Orion Black suggests actions speak louder than words, now awaits being fired? There was no actual accusation in there right?
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Jun 18, 2020 23:57
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jun 19, 2020 00:01
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It might be so that if Orion DOES get blacklisted or other consquences happen (merely for saying they were treated poorly but can't discuss the details, which doesn't seem to break any NDA but who knows what lawyers can cook up)- Wizards knows that what they do to Orion will be seen/scrutinized. Basically insurance against Wizards trying to quietly blacklist them when no one is paying attention. If so it's a wise move, I think!
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Jun 19, 2020 00:21
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Didn’t he only start working for them a couple months ago? Like, it’s definitely been less than a year
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Jun 19, 2020 01:23
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It always seemed ridiculous to me when I was playing AL heavily that race wasn't excepted from the 1 book rule. Or just-- Volo's in specific.
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Jun 19, 2020 01:27
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https://twitter.com/warrenellis/status/1273785757338083328 Warren Ellis has a statement out.
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Jun 19, 2020 02:17
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thetoughestbean posted:Didn’t he only start working for them a couple months ago? Like, it’s definitely been less than a year They are a contractor, so it's almost certainly been less than a year since they couldn't have more than an 18 month contract anyways.
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Jun 19, 2020 03:07
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admanb posted:They are a contractor, so it's almost certainly been less than a year since they couldn't have more than an 18 month contract anyways. WOTC is also under heavy pressure to increase BIPOC non-contract employees and often go contract -> full employment, though. So assuming they were getting good feedback on their work until now, it's pretty reasonable to think a full position would be a possibility.
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Jun 19, 2020 03:21
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Ultiville posted:WOTC is also under heavy pressure to increase BIPOC non-contract employees and often go contract -> full employment, though. So assuming they were getting good feedback on their work until now, it's pretty reasonable to think a full position would be a possibility. I mean... *waves at the tweets* it sounds like that is not what was happening.
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Jun 19, 2020 03:28
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Liquid Communism posted:Warren Ellis has a statement out. I don't know what he did, and after reading that statement I still don't know what he did but I understand that he's said that he takes full responsibility without equivocation for whatever he did, and also that it wasn't ever his conscious intent to do whatever it was that he did because he never even knew that he was in a position to do whatever it was that he did, and it sounds like he's working really hard on believing that both of those things can be true at the same time.
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Jun 19, 2020 03:36
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Liquid Communism posted:https://twitter.com/warrenellis/status/1273785757338083328 This seems pretty disappointing to be honest. I don't think he is being honest with himself or with everyone else or really taking responsibility for the things he has done.
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Jun 19, 2020 03:39
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Warren Ellis posted:I will not speak against other people's personal truths, and I will not expose them to the toxicity of the current discourse. I'm finding it very hard not to read this sentence as "I didn't do anything truly wrong, people are overreacting." At best, he found a very, very bad way to say "I will not address specific allegations because the nature of the modern internet would inevitably rally a harassment mob against the victims." The statement gets a little better from there, but one sentence can really leave a bad taste in your mouth that you can't scrub out.
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Jun 19, 2020 03:55
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"people's personal truths" is an extremely lovely way of saying "well I'm sure THEY think that's what happens but who can really say?" I swear people are going to figure out a way to bring about the end of capitalism and harness cold fusion before they figure out how to make an actual, genuine apology.
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Jun 19, 2020 04:42
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I suspect these statements are written the way they are because no apology has ever been sufficient to actually improve the situation, so it's better to say something cautious, then drop off the face of the earth for a while. I'm curious, has there been a single case of someone loving up, issuing an apology that was actually broadly accepted by the aggrieved parties and the public at large, and then getting to resume their careers / lives while making positive changes in their behavior? Not just in tradgames, but in any field?
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Jun 19, 2020 07:39
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Kestral posted:I suspect these statements are written the way they are because no apology has ever been sufficient to actually improve the situation, so it's better to say something cautious, then drop off the face of the earth for a while. Dan Harmon, James Gunn, the (remaining) Game Grumps off the top my head. Turns out the secret is actually being sincere about your apology.
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Jun 19, 2020 07:45
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Kestral posted:I suspect these statements are written the way they are because no apology has ever been sufficient to actually improve the situation, so it's better to say something cautious, then drop off the face of the earth for a while. Yes, people do it all the time and it works all the time. The key is actually being sorry and then not doing it again. There's a formula that will let you fake this, but nobody who needs to use it can get past step one which is "you absolutely must not ever show that you think you are the real victim here".
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Jun 19, 2020 07:58
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Tendales posted:Dan Harmon, James Gunn, the (remaining) Game Grumps off the top my head. I don't know from youtubers, but the first two just told crude jokes and didn't really have a victim beyond the triggered feelings of readers or watchers. You can apologize for a lovely joke if you're sincere. I don't know of a sexual abuser that's made such a good apology that anyone anywhere ever said "Great apology, you're off the hook buddy."
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Jun 19, 2020 08:05
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theironjef posted:I don't know from youtubers, but the first two just told crude jokes and didn't really have a victim beyond the triggered feelings of readers or watchers. You can apologize for a lovely joke if you're sincere. I don't know of a sexual abuser that's made such a good apology that anyone anywhere ever said "Great apology, you're off the hook buddy." I thought Harmon's thing was creating a hostile work environment?
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Jun 19, 2020 08:08
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I thought Dan Harmon cheated on his wife and that's why they got divorced?
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Jun 19, 2020 08:11
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I'll be very honest, I thought it was a comedy thing he did where he pretended to rape a doll. I had not heard of that other stuff.
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Jun 19, 2020 08:16
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Dan Harmon seriously harassed the woman who wrote the pilot of Community (I think she was also the showrunner?). He spent a number of years being a genuinely toxic person and while I’ve heard he’s changed for the better you can see him slip into old, lovely habits every so often Also, re: successful apologies, the emperor Theodosius the First ordered the slaughter of citizens in Thessolonia after citizens had rioted and killed a senior military official for arresting a beloved charioteer. He actually sent orders saying “no don’t actually slaughter the citizens at the chariot races that’s a terrible idea” once he calmed down but it arrived too late. He was excommunicated by the Bishop of Milan and church father Ambrose, and was only reaccepted after half a year of repentance, and changing the law so that citizens had at least thirty days between a death sentence being ordered and it being carried out (and also promising to stamp down on those drat pagans) So what I’m saying is, if you want me to forgive you, you gotta repent six months and also promise to persecute the pagans more thetoughestbean fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Jun 19, 2020 |
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Jun 19, 2020 08:17
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Kai Tave posted:"people's personal truths" is an extremely lovely way of saying "well I'm sure THEY think that's what happens but who can really say?" I swear people are going to figure out a way to bring about the end of capitalism and harness cold fusion before they figure out how to make an actual, genuine apology. I really don't think that's a reasonable reading in context; he starts off the paragraph with "I hurt people deeply and I am ashamed" and it comes after a paragraph of "I hosed up, I didn't realize that I held the power I definitely held, and that's unacceptable." I think this is not a great sentence, but in context it's an attempt to avoid actually hashing out what happened because of the internet being awful about adjudicating truth claims and going after people for any accusation. Ellis isn't quite saying 'everything is precisely as they describe' because he's saying 'my intentions weren't manipulative, I was just a privileged rear end in a top hat and didn't see that I was being abusive' which like, I'll credit that, because there's a lot of people doing poo poo like he did that have a real vested interest in willful ignorance. He is hopefully reconsidered who he thought he was, and figuring out what he turned a blind eye to in his own person. Of course, his whole 'Warren Ellis Forums' career makes that harder to believe - he clearly had a lot of influence in comics, and while I can easily imagine him thinking it's just comics, it's not that big an industry, I don't really have power - that's the kind of believe assholes have about their own influence. That's the part of the statement to question, not the weird phrasing in the second part. Now, obviously this doesn't actually change who Ellis is, and the proof will be in the pudding - this is merely a signal that he, apparently, intends to improve as a person and is grappling with his prior deeds. I think it's a believable signal, but then, those absolutely can be faked, so what matters is what Ellis does going forward. Does he do things which make him seem trustworthy without falling back on abusive or dismissive habits, ignoring his own power dynamics, etc? Or does he genuinely improve? We don't know yet, and I'm certainly not assuming he will. This also clearly isn't the same thing as an apology to the women themselves, which (based on statements in threads by his accusers) are likely to be private if they happen, and given this public statement, I can't imagine they won't happen? In the sense that at least one said something like 'don't cancel Ellis' and another said 'I'm still fond of him' - so potentially they're interested in hearing from him. And they have the right to not accept his apology, just as any and all of us have the right to be skeeved out and cancel Warren Ellis in our hearts and on twitter. But I don't think the fact that apologies are fundamentally insufficient should be a reason to always find a fault with apologies. He did the first, most basic step, and hopefully that will be followed by other, less basic steps, but right now he's certainly not cleansed of his terrible behavior. (Also, like, it's amazing that Dan Harmon of the 'I will constantly agonize over how bad a person I am but I'll also keep going back to being an rear end in a top hat semi-regularly' behavior is being held up as an example of someone who did it right.) Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Jun 19, 2020 |
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Jun 19, 2020 08:45
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Kai Tave posted:"people's personal truths" is an extremely lovely way of saying "well I'm sure THEY think that's what happens but who can really say?" I swear people are going to figure out a way to bring about the end of capitalism and harness cold fusion before they figure out how to make an actual, genuine apology. What's obnoxious is 'I had no idea I was famous.'
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Jun 19, 2020 12:16
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"I had no idea I was famous" is exactly the sort of thing I'd expect someone who regularly googles themselves to say
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Jun 19, 2020 12:55
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Dawgstar posted:What's obnoxious is 'I had no idea I was famous.' Yeah that too, like sorry my dude, when you're a fuckin comics industry luminary for decades and Sir Patrick Stewart is writing forwards for your graphic novels you don't really get to play the "gosh am I really famous?" card.
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Jun 19, 2020 13:03
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Honestly fame is kind of weird these days. You can be incredibly well known in a tiny field, and completely unknown outside of it. Ellis is definitely nerd-famous, but not like... reliably well known or even heard of outside nerd circles. And I honestly doubt most nerds would even know what he looks like.
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Jun 19, 2020 13:33
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thespaceinvader posted:
Can confirm. I don't think him writing the Netflix Castlevania show is what is going to push him to be recognizable by the public. This stuff going has inspired a lot of this in the wrestling community which is extremely good and also extremely, wildly, wide-spread.
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Jun 19, 2020 13:40
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Tendales posted:the (remaining) Game Grumps off the top my head. Just don't google Suzies tweets about black people if you want to like her at all.
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Jun 19, 2020 14:12
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thespaceinvader posted:Honestly fame is kind of weird these days. You can be incredibly well known in a tiny field, and completely unknown outside of it. Right, but the women who have accused him have all been in circles where he is famous. Look at how he treated the mod community of his forum. You can't have a community devoted to discussing your works with volunteers managing it and not think you are famous to them at least.
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Jun 19, 2020 14:40
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My questions were dumb and I should feel dumb.
CitizenKeen fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jun 19, 2020 |
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Jun 19, 2020 15:23
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why the gently caress would you post this
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Jun 19, 2020 15:29
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Mors Rattus posted:why the gently caress would you post this
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Jun 19, 2020 15:30
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