|
Phlegmish posted:I am also a native Dutch speaker and it's always been a bit strange to see all of the pseudo-Dutch names and terms in the Witcher universe. I'm not used to anyone bothering with that in fantasy properties. I suppose that to a Pole, Dutch is somewhat exotic, and as a language it's minor enough that it's not going to trigger that feeling of familiarity for most readers. It's pretty common in fantasy settings inspired by medieval Europe to have Germanic, French, Dutch, English, Italian and Celtic names. You take the Witcher setting for example; here are some other names clearly inspired by European languages: Angouleme: French city King Foltest: Fol Test is old French for Crazy Head (Folle tête) Geralt: Germanic Cahir Mawr Dyffryn aep Ceallach: Celtic etc, etc Sometimes it's even a mix of more than one language like Emiel Regis Rohellec Terzieff-Godefroy or Julian Alfred Pankratz A funny one is Vilgefortz, which is probably coming from Wilgeforte, a female saint who prayed to God to not be married against her will (legends vary regarding to whom). God heard her wish and gave her a beard so no man would be attracted to her anymore. She still ends up crucified, probably because a woman with a beard was not considered very orthodox but frankly satanic  You got the same European-inspired names in many fantasy settings. In Warhammer you can pretty much find the equivalent of France, Germany, England, Italy and Spain (e: oh and there's the Netherlands too which is called the Wasteland for some reason) SpaceGoatFarts fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Jun 17, 2020 |
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 20:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 23:11 |
|
|
And then there's the lord of the rings where the guy made up the fuckin languages.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 20:48
|
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:And then there's the lord of the rings where the guy made up the fuckin languages. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 20:54
|
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:And then there's the lord of the rings where the guy made up the fuckin languages. Even then he uses names from old Norse (dwarves), old English (Rohirrim), various Germanic, Celtic and English (hobbits) as part of his translation convention so that you don’t have to read about the adventures of Maura Labingi
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 21:02
|
|
|
skasion posted:Even then he uses names from old Norse (dwarves), old English (Rohirrim), various Germanic, Celtic and English (hobbits) as part of his translation convention so that you don’t have to read about the adventures of Maura Labingi Did Hobbits have their own language or did they speak some Man language? edit; oops i forgot this wasnt the tolkien thread
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 21:04
|
|
|
Westron which was translated as English
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 21:05
|
|
|
SpaceGoatFarts posted:You got the same European-inspired names in many fantasy settings. In Warhammer you can pretty much find the equivalent of France, Germany, England, Italy and Spain (e: oh and there's the Netherlands too which is called the Wasteland for some reason)  They had a good reason for those names, this time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 21:11
|
|
|
THE BAR posted:
I'm aware Warhammer's world is inspired by our world, but like I said it's pretty common for fantasy settings to be inspired by Medieval Europe and beyond. To the point that it can be difficult to find really original settings. Give me something like Vance's Dying Earth. Now that's really exotic
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 21:25
|
|
|
Oh yes. It's especially hard to shake tabletop players out of that habit. Convincing them to play anything but Ye Olde English Countryside campaigns is like pulling teeth.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 21:50
|
|
|
Ingmar terdman posted:Reading messiah for the first time. I like how so far it's like the revival season of arrested development, where they are recounting everything that happened between the end of dune and the beginning of messiah. Really sucks that there's no glossary and how every Herbert term has to be defined in the text, sometimes in really clunky asides Messiah is the perfect ending to the original book. Read no further unless you wanna get weird in the sack with the wormgod.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 22:21
|
|
|
Definitely read further... You wanna read Duncan bringing Nayla to orgasm
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 22:23
|
|
|
I had to take a break partway through Heretics because I wasn't feeling it as much (also quarantine madness is making it hard to read as much), but Children & God Emperor were absolutely still page-turners for me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 22:29
|
|
|
Jack-Off Lantern posted:Definitely read further... You wanna read Duncan bringing Nayla to orgasm I'm just sayin, before you get to Nayla's female-empowering dolphinshort-creaming objectification of our most wholesome swordmaster...you have to snooze through Baron Vlad Genetic Memory and Laza Tigers. So godspeed to all who tread through such cursed territory
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 22:37
|
|
|
Messiah is pretty short so I was planning on rounding out the trilogy, since the second sci fi movie combines the two I'm fascinated by god-emperor but I don't know if I can see my way to reading it. Summaries of the last two sound a bit much, and i've known kevin j anderson sucks since i was 10
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 22:58
|
|
|
Ingmar terdman posted:Messiah is pretty short so I was planning on rounding out the trilogy, since the second sci fi movie combines the two It's not a trilogy. It's three duologies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2020 23:32
|
|
|
THE BAR posted:Oh yes. It's especially hard to shake tabletop players out of that habit. Convincing them to play anything but Ye Olde English Countryside campaigns is like pulling teeth. Depends on who you're playing with and how you pitch it, sometimes. As long as there's dungeons and there's dragons people may feel at home. I went for a Mesoamerican-Australian feel with dinosaurs and robots in the steaming jungle.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 06:47
|
|
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I'm just sayin, before you get to Nayla's female-empowering dolphinshort-creaming objectification of our most wholesome swordmaster...you have to snooze through Baron Vlad Genetic Memory and Laza Tigers. So godspeed to all who tread through such cursed territory Children of Dune was good.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 07:49
|
|
|
phasmid posted:Children of Dune was good. ehh
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 09:36
|
|
|
It was good. It might also have been the worst of the series. Also I just finished Hellstrom's Hive. Shouts out to whoever(s) recommended that oh so many pages ago.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 13:33
|
|
|
Murray Mantoinette posted:Also I just finished Hellstrom's Hive. Shouts out to whoever(s) recommended that oh so many pages ago. It was me. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 19:07
|
|
|
 Seconding this shout out, read HH on your recommendation and it was awesome.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 23:38
|
|
|
Yeah Hellstrom's kicks rear end.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 23:51
|
|
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:It's not a trilogy. It's three duologies.  It's one trilogy, a bridge book in the middle, and a second trilogy that was sadly never finished
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 04:04
|
|
|
how on earth is children more connected to messiah than to god emperor
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 06:01
|
|
|
Doc Hawkins posted:how on earth is children more connected to messiah than to god emperor paraphrasing a prescient goon 1&2 are about Paul. 3&4 are about Leto II. 5&6 are about Herbert. 7 is about @duneauthor
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 06:10
|
|
|
I agree the "three duologies" thing fits better, but they're all still connected. 3 is about Leto, but it's also about him picking up from Paul's failures and legacy. 5 is about the new Bene Gesserit and Scattering humanity, but it's also a lot about Leto's legacy, his continuing influence, humanity trying to grasp the totality of his Golden Path, etc. So if you think Children is closer to God Emperor, or closer to Messiah, there's probably plenty of reasoning for both viewpoints. Also on an unrelated note, I always kinda assumed that Dune was the culmination of Frank's various political and metaphysical philosophies that he also touches on in most of his other work, but I just looked it up and Dune came out before his other series and was actually pretty early on in his bibliography. The Dune series came out kinda contemporaneously with the WorShip books, and well before his ConSentiency books. now I'm angry that he wrote all of those instead of using the time to finish Dune 7
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 06:23
|
|
|
I think of it as two trilogies mostly because of the timeline. The first three all take place together, then we jump ahead 1500 years for God-Emperor, and then another 1500(?) years for the last two. (I assume 7 would have continued directly from Chapterhouse.) But I can see it the other way.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 16:36
|
|
|
As far as non-Dune Frank stuff goes, there will always be a special place in my heart for Destination Void and The Jesus Incident. If only because they inspired one of the greatest games of all time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 17:20
|
|
|
Halfway through messiash and the latest dril sums it up https://twitter.com/dril/status/1274348052485074945
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 02:15
|
|
|
I myself just finished Heretics. That was...something. Another one of those novels where I had to read the summary on Wikipedia to make sure I understood everything correctly. The concept of the Scattering is pretty cool. I also get now why people were saying that this is where Herbert gets horny, there are no sex scenes to speak of, but both the Bene Gesserit and the Honored Matres prominently use sex to control men. The constant focus on it seems rather pointless and trite, and I don't remember it from the previous books, but it doesn't really contradict how the Bene Gesserit have been known to act, either. I take it the Honored Matres try to destroy both the ghola and Sheeana to prevent Bene Gesserit control of the new messianic religion? What was the Tleilaxu's plan in altering the ghola? Why did Taraza plan to destroy Rakis? Was it so they could take the last remaining sandworm with them? How would that free them from the Tyrant's prescience, and what does it mean to be freed from that? How does this all relate to the Golden Path? The more of these Dune novels I read, the more I'm baffled that they became such a success. Not that they're bad, far from it, but you'd think the masses would have no patience for anything this esoteric.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 03:11
|
|
|
The masses don't read it Certainly not part the first book Not talking about the failson books
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 03:34
|
|
|
Ingmar terdman posted:Halfway through messiash and the latest dril sums it up While reading that I couldn't stop thinking of Leto II as God-Emperor dril
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 03:38
|
|
|
Pham Nuwen posted:Yeah Hellstrom's kicks rear end. One of the creepiest novels ever written.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 04:01
|
|
|
Phlegmish posted:I myself just finished Heretics. That was...something. Another one of those novels where I had to read the summary on Wikipedia to make sure I understood everything correctly. The concept of the Scattering is pretty cool. I also get now why people were saying that this is where Herbert gets horny, there are no sex scenes to speak of, but both the Bene Gesserit and the Honored Matres prominently use sex to control men. The constant focus on it seems rather pointless and trite, and I don't remember it from the previous books, but it doesn't really contradict how the Bene Gesserit have been known to act, either. A lot of people didn't like Messiah and the books after it because it takes the hero Paul and shows a different side, scheming, cynical and ruthless. I think that bothered a lot of people who like their stories to be black and white. The good guys can't be evil. They can be outlaws, smartasses or "antiheroes" (if that term even means anything) but they can't be shown to have darkness of any depth. Freaks some people out, I guess. The reason the first one was such a hit was that Herbert knew exactly what kind of story he was constructing. He took lessons from many great writers and then he read a whole bunch of science fiction beforehand. Interestingly, he was fairly new to SF when he started writing, I believe. He just immersed himself in it to see what the genre held. "No sex scenes to speak of"? Wasn't Heretics the one where Duncan first meets Murbella? I think that was the first sex scene in the series. Before that, everything kinda happened in the background. quote:Why did Taraza plan to destroy Rakis? Was it so they could take the last remaining sandworm with them? How would that free them from the Tyrant's prescience, and what does it mean to be freed from that? How does this all relate to the Golden Path? It's been a while since I read it, but IIRC they don't have the means yet to full-scale produce synthetic melange. Their plan is to survive on their stores while they create a habitat for the sandtrout on another planet. As for the Tyrant, the more of his "consciousness" is destroyed, the less power his prescience has to ensnare people. The Matres destroyed Arrakis for a much dumber reason than you think: it was simply payback for one or more of their own number. The Matres destroy cities, even planets, for perceived insults. This was one such case. (Also they figured if the spice came only from there, it would be a death blow to the old imperium.) As for the ghola, I believe he was supposed to have new latent talents that would crop up. Then he could infiltrate the B.G. But then again, it's been a few years since I read the books. e. v lol phasmid fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jun 22, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 04:09
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:While reading that I couldn't stop thinking of Leto II as God-Emperor dril 
Ingmar terdman fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jun 22, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 04:15
|
|
|
Read Hellstrom's Hive based on the recommendations here. A good read but it's obvious Herbert was a grade A repressed horn dog
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 05:10
|
|
|
Paul 50 Duncan 35 Jessica 80 Leto II 3,500 Thufir 85 someone who is good at human lifespans please help me my species is dying
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 06:20
|
|
|
 https://twitter.com/dril/status/518411043887128576
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 07:07
|
|
|
phasmid posted:"No sex scenes to speak of"? Wasn't Heretics the one where Duncan first meets Murbella? I think that was the first sex scene in the series. Before that, everything kinda happened in the background. Yeah, but it's really brief and non-descript. I'm not demanding more hot steamy sex, but it does make me wonder why he made the sexual control thing so prominent. It's like the worst of both worlds. quote:It's been a while since I read it, but IIRC they don't have the means yet to full-scale produce synthetic melange. Their plan is to survive on their stores while they create a habitat for the sandtrout on another planet. As for the Tyrant, the more of his "consciousness" is destroyed, the less power his prescience has to ensnare people. The Matres destroyed Arrakis for a much dumber reason than you think: it was simply payback for one or more of their own number. The Matres destroy cities, even planets, for perceived insults. This was one such case. (Also they figured if the spice came only from there, it would be a death blow to the old imperium.) If Leto's Golden Path is meant to safeguard humanity, wouldn't it be dangerous to derail it? Or are they past the bottleneck since the Scattering happened and now it's safe to do so? Did Leto II, super-intelligent megaworm, fail to understand the creative powers of his own prescience? I don't really 'get' the Bene Gesserit in general. I realize they strive to perpetuate their own existence and subtly influence humanity in myriad ways, but what are their goals specifically? Even in the first book it's not really clear to me. 1. Institute eugenetical breeding program 2. Produce Kwisatz Haderach 3. ??? Although now that I'm reading the wiki, it seems the goal was to produce a sort of male Reverend Mother that would be even more powerful than they are, having ALL the prescience. lmao guess you got what you wanted, what a self-own. Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Jun 22, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 14:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 23:11 |
|
|
If your cells dont say "rest in peace" on them you are automatically drafted into the ghola war
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 14:04
|
|