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goddamnedtwisto posted:Would either of those have the range to get down to Wales? No, but I don't mind stopping and fast-charging for half an hour to an hour. Leisurely rides mate. Renaissance Robot posted:Also the answer is no regardless of which bits of those countries you're thinking of, Gretna to Chester is like 130 miles of motorway I doubt I'd be doing 100% motorway all the way to destinations, it's about the journey, not so much the destination... So... which would you guys choose?
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Jun 17, 2020 22:08
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Everything I see and hear about the energica says that it's miles ahead of the industry and the best thing since sliced bread. Compared with that, I don't understand why you'd get a zero unless it was the dualsport one do you could silently be a huge urban hooligan.
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Jun 17, 2020 22:13
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Martytoof posted:What is the bike were hit by lightning along the way? just make sure you're going 88mph when it strikes
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Jun 17, 2020 22:25
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Local dealer has a 2019 SV650x with 2700 miles that someone bought there then traded in. Aftermarket exhaust and tail tidy, but looks clean. Asking just under $5k. Assuming that they don't pile on a bunch of lovely fees I'd be happy with that price, does it seem reasonable? Was also looking at some new bikes and leftover 2019s with some good discounts including factory incentives. Mostly dual sports. But even at $1000-2500 off (again before destination charge, doc fees, and all that other BS) I'm not sure I need a new bike. Used market is kind of thin/expensive near me though, I guess due to time of year. I was expecting a lot of used bikes for sale due to the overall economy. I've never bought a bike from a dealer. Always used from previous owners. I've heard bike dealers don't normally negotiate or waive the BS fees as much as car dealers, due to lower margins and lower cost per unit, is that people's experience? More/less wiggle room on used vs new? If I end up buying from a dealer, I'd be willing to buy some gear that I need anyways at the same time if that would give me another lever to pull as far as the overall discount.
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Jun 17, 2020 23:05
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The best I’ve done at a dealer was making the outdoor price just under the MSRP on a new bike. There is some wiggle room to get the total down and you can also try to get some free maintenance or gear. I imagine fees/taxes would be better on the used bike to start with. I looked a lot at the 2019 SV650x specifically because I think it’s so pretty, I‘d pay $4-5k for what it is if the PO didn’t mess it up somehow. Someone feel free to correct me though, I’m just a dork that looks at cycletrader way way more than I should.
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Jun 18, 2020 02:20
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Margins go up on more expensive bikes so you can usually get things like liter bikes, especially weird unpopular ones, like the ones that aren't "THE FASTEST" for that year at pretty deep discounts. But yeah, margins on cheapo bikes are usually pretty thin so there's not that much room to bargain. Seriously though, dealers are out there advertising CBR1000RRs (the "slow" ones, with like 180 hp) for 11-12 k. That's about what you would drop for an R6 at MSRP...
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Jun 19, 2020 01:56
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Mirconium posted:Margins go up on more expensive bikes so you can usually get things like liter bikes, especially weird unpopular ones, like the ones that aren't "THE FASTEST" for that year at pretty deep discounts. But yeah, margins on cheapo bikes are usually pretty thin so there's not that much room to bargain. I noticed this with respect to deprecation in my area. My 5000 dollar bike used in good shape wasn’t much cheaper than brand new so I went with new. If I was buying a $10,000+ bike and could save several grand for going used then hell yeah.
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Jun 19, 2020 02:21
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Tyro posted:Used market is kind of thin/expensive near me though, I guess due to time of year. I was expecting a lot of used bikes for sale due to the overall economy. Same thing seems to be happening with autos in general, I've got a friend who works in banking and the auto loan applications have been surging through, even during the height of the lockdown. People are buying vroom-vrooms in spite of the travel restrictions and worldwide economic uncertainty. Classical economics models just fall apart when exposed to human irrationality.
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Jun 19, 2020 03:49
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I never thought I'd be buying or selling a bike during the COVID shut down but I did both. My Aprilia turned up out of nowhere and it was an opportunity I couldn't miss. That I could sort of understand because hey, sometimes people sell their toys in times of economic stress (though the seller wasn't stressed, they just wanted to sell it so they could replace the dirtbike that got stolen out of their front yard). But the successful sale of my Suzuki surprised me. Took hardly any time or effort at all. I threw out a Facebook ad, ignored anyone who didn't explicitly ask to see it and sold it to the first guy who turned up. The most time consuming bit was washing it and going out for a ride on it to get some decent photos and it's not like that was actual work. Actual sale process was like 10 minutes and the guy who bought it didn't even want a test ride.
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Jun 19, 2020 04:04
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I have my eye on a 2017 Honda CB500F with only 1600 miles on it. What kind of problems should I look for that would be caused by disuse?
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Jun 19, 2020 04:33
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Martytoof posted:Judging by some photos I see on reddit, motorcycles can be folding bikes too. 
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Jun 19, 2020 04:56
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taco_fox posted:I have my eye on a 2017 Honda CB500F with only 1600 miles on it. What kind of problems should I look for that would be caused by disuse? A buddy of mine bought the same bike sight unseen with the same mileage on it, and rode from Atlanta to Denver on it. I think he may have lubed the chain and made sure the oil was up. Said the tires were hard but that was it.
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Jun 19, 2020 05:52
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HenryJLittlefinger posted:A buddy of mine bought the same bike sight unseen with the same mileage on it, and rode from Atlanta to Denver on it. I think he may have lubed the chain and made sure the oil was up. Said the tires were hard but that was it. 1600 in 3 years isn't enough to make a significant difference. Buy it and do some fluids when you get back to your place.
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Jun 19, 2020 07:47
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Cool, that tracks with what I'm seeing. I'm just surprised at what people are asking for their used bikes in my area. And there aren't that many options unless you want a Harley. I'm not looking to spend more than maybe $8-9k right now, including the 10% tax, so I'd prefer to get a used bike to get more bang for my buck but we'll see what comes up. I just want something to bomb around locally on, maybe half day trips at most, I have two little kids at home and it's hard to get away. My last bike was a FZ8 and I really liked it after smoothing out the mapping with a power commander. I'm mostly thinking about getting a dual sport or scrambler, my first bike was a thumper and I've always kind of liked them. The SV650X just popped up and I was curious. Surprisingly the insurance company wants over $800 a year for that SV650X which is crazy, that's double what I paid to insure my FZ8. I've moved since so I'm sure the ZIP code change has something to do with it. But they'll cover a new CRF450L at the same level for $250 a year. I saw a 2019 Honda CRF450L at a dealer for $8K+fees which was a bit tempting. The service intervals are not awesome but I'm not going to be commuting or touring on it or anything. Realistically I'm not going off road often, it'd be for 80/20 road use, with occasional dirt/gravel, nothing serious, so the CRF450 is probably a bad choice. For example of the used market overpricing, locally there are people selling a 2012 XR650L and a 2015 KLR650 each asking $4,800, and a 2009 DR650S at $4,200. Maybe I'm out of touch but I think they're all about $1k overpriced. Comedy option there's a leftover (heavy, anemic, bad ground clearance, but pretty) 2017 Yamaha SCR950 at a local dealer, I wonder how low they'd go, as they're advertising it for $6k. Apparently there was a dealer in Missouri blowing them out for $2999 advertised/about $4000 OTD last year. I know I'm kind of all over the place, I just miss having a motorcycle.
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Jun 19, 2020 12:19
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 Possibly relevant to that dealer margins thing, holy poo poo.
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Jun 19, 2020 12:23
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Revvik posted:
 
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Jun 19, 2020 12:30
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Revvik posted:
 LOL is that a DZ400SM? A local dealer was advertising new ones for $6200 the other day
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Jun 19, 2020 12:43
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:ahem...  Well, don't I just stand corrected!
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Jun 19, 2020 14:08
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Tyro posted:
Yeah hey now he did put that $600 exhaust on, and labor ain’t free. I mean gently caress, that bike hasn’t changed at all in like 20 years.
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Jun 19, 2020 23:25
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On the one hand, it blows my mind that you can't get a DRZ or DR650 brand new for under 5k. On the other, I wonder how inflation has tracked with the MSRP over the years. Could be that price accounts for a decreasing value. It's a crime that this is all we get. Just some low tech non updated 25 year old design, with new plastics, year after year.
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Jun 20, 2020 00:57
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It has pros and cons. Imo the bike wouldn't be anywhere near as popular if it had efi and a cat and abs, the simplicity and DIY ruggedness are part of the appeal. There's also a lot to be said about engines that barely change over decades, they are almost universally extremely mature, dependable designs with huge aftermarket support. Also at this point the cost of updating the bike to meet modern standards would probably be more than just building a clean slate design, Suzuki are gonna milk it till somebody tells them to stop selling them.
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Jun 20, 2020 01:08
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I was under the impression the reason that the entire dual sport scene is riddled with 80ies vintage designs is because there was some emission reg that kicked in around then that already-approved models were grandfathered into, and so every company has at least one bike they haven't updated in literally 30 years because to do so would be a downgrade purely on emissions grounds. Eg, XR650L, KLR650, DRZ400, TW200, pretty sure there might be a couple of others I'm forgetting... (Also why they are still somehow allowed to be carbed in the brave new world of injection)
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Jun 20, 2020 01:11
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Mirconium posted:I was under the impression the reason that the entire dual sport scene is riddled with 80ies vintage designs is because there was some emission reg that kicked in around then that already-approved models were grandfathered into, and so every company has at least one bike they haven't updated in literally 30 years because to do so would be a downgrade purely on emissions grounds. That is broadly correct yeah, that's why I know the drz will never, ever get an update it'll just get replaced wholesale.
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Jun 20, 2020 01:32
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I know ABS is great, but one thing I adore about bikes is that the safety standards are what you wear, not what you ride; so a bike from the 80s is safe in ways a car from the 80s never could be.
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Jun 20, 2020 01:33
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Cars keep getting heavier and harder to see out of in the name of safety while bikes keep getting lighter and grippier and it's awesome.
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Jun 20, 2020 01:55
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I wonder if we'll see active aero on bikes in my lifetime. Grip is a finite resource if all you got is rubber
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Jun 20, 2020 02:03
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The new Fireblade has ducted variable geometry aero vanes.
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Jun 20, 2020 02:33
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Coydog posted:On the one hand, it blows my mind that you can't get a DRZ or DR650 brand new for under 5k. On the other, I wonder how inflation has tracked with the MSRP over the years. Could be that price accounts for a decreasing value. I'm starting to think that some bikes are getting to the point where the tech is so far behind everything else that it stops being cheaper and starts being more expensive than more advanced stuff because there's only one factory supplying a limited run of outdated parts. Or maybe the manufacturers are just charging as much as they think they can get away with and these old machines actually have huge margins, idk
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Jun 20, 2020 09:07
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Slavvy posted:It has pros and cons. Imo the bike wouldn't be anywhere near as popular if it had efi and a cat and abs, the simplicity and DIY ruggedness are part of the appeal. There's also a lot to be said about engines that barely change over decades, they are almost universally extremely mature, dependable designs with huge aftermarket support. Slavvy in ringing endorsement of Royal Enfield shocker.
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Jun 20, 2020 09:16
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Mirconium posted:I wonder if we'll see active aero on bikes in my lifetime. Grip is a finite resource if all you got is rubber Downforce doesn't really work for improving cornering speed on bikes though, because of the whole leaning thing. Conventional wings (i.e. putting downforce along the vertical axis of the bike) would make things worse, because the downforce would be split between pushing the tyre into the ground and pushing it to the outside of the corner, with that ratio moving towards the latter the more the bike is leaned - even with a theoretically perfect tyre and suspension design that perfectly translated downward force into the tyre into resistance to sideways force all that happens is that once you hit 45 degrees of lean you end up with no more grip than if you had no downforce. What you need is wing that creates downforce that stays parallel to the ground, which is I suppose theoretically possible, but also has a centre of force that stays over the contact patch of the tyres, which I don't think you can do without creating something that's not really a motorcycle any more. I suppose you could use it for stuff like dynamically managing airflow to improve straight-line speed/comfort/fuel economy, because bikes are a loving disaster area aerodynamically, but by that standard bikes have had active aero from the start: 
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Jun 20, 2020 09:34
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goddamnedtwisto posted:What you need is wing that creates downforce that stays parallel to the ground, which is I suppose theoretically possible, but also has a centre of force that stays over the contact patch of the tyres, which I don't think you can do without creating something that's not really a motorcycle any more. That's the active part of active aero. I don't remember the model but there's already at least one car that has ailerons to keep it level through corners. e/ one example, not the one I was thinking of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6YEXumFqZE Renaissance Robot fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 10:40
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I am going to look at a 2009 V star Yamaha 250 this afternoon . Is there anything in particular to look out for ? It’s low miles and he’s asking for 1,500. This will be my first bike so I need it solely to learn on and use to take my license test.
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Jun 20, 2020 13:21
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Dr.Caligari posted:I am going to look at a 2009 V star Yamaha 250 this afternoon . Is there anything in particular to look out for ? It’s low miles and he’s asking for 1,500. This will be my first bike so I need it solely to learn on and use to take my license test.
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Jun 20, 2020 13:53
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Renaissance Robot posted:That's the active part of active aero. I don't remember the model but there's already at least one car that has ailerons to keep it level through corners. You're probably thinking of the Pagani Huarya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td2iuMkH85o&t=1478s which was the first road car to have differential active aero. These are just increasing downforce on the inside of the corner to increase the effective grip on the inside wheels. Still no application to bikes for the reasons I stated - I suppose you *might* be able to use active aero to stabilise the bike and minimise weight transfer effects mid-corner, but it's still insanely complex for something you can already do with body position.
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Jun 20, 2020 13:55
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Dr.Caligari posted:I am going to look at a 2009 V star Yamaha 250 this afternoon . Is there anything in particular to look out for ? It’s low miles and he’s asking for 1,500. This will be my first bike so I need it solely to learn on and use to take my license test. What maneuvers are required on your licence test? I only ask because when I did mine, figure eights inside the box were impossible for the one guy on the 250 cruiser.
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Jun 20, 2020 14:38
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Carth Dookie posted:What maneuvers are required on your licence test? I only ask because when I did mine, figure eights inside the box were impossible for the one guy on the 250 cruiser. Most of the Harley riders I know have rented a scooter to pass the riding test Nitrox fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 15:13
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It’s just the standard license test here in the US . I’m looking at this one because I figured it would be an affordable way to make sure I’m going to like riding and give me a feel for riding the cruiser style. So far, looking at bikes listed on Facebook marketplace is like shopping for a car on there . Only worse. I’m not planning riding interstates any time soon, and I understand this bike tops out at 85mph. The two lane state route my house is on is typically 60mph . Is that going to be a problem? I’m not sure if that 85mph is something like a set limit or if 85mph was measured going down hill w/ a wind pushing Dr.Caligari fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 16:21
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You have the right frame of mind, and should definitely stick to that sort of bike for your use case. It's what you need, and also safer than like taking the test on a 250 so that you can go buy a 600 right after. But I think you should be taking the MSF BRC instead. It's like $250 for a weekend, and they not only teach you how to ride the bike, but let you get certified. You can literally take the rider test on their bikes on their course under their instruction wearing their helmets.
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Jun 20, 2020 16:44
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Mirconium posted:I wonder if we'll see active aero on bikes in my lifetime. Grip is a finite resource if all you got is rubber In your lifetime? I’d expect it within a couple of years. Bikes already have static aero stuff like the H2R does. Cars have had it for decades (RIP 3000GT VR4), it’s coming sooner rather than later. Granted at first it will be on your crazy top end halo bikes like the Panigale, H2R, things like that, but it will make its way down eventually
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Jun 20, 2020 17:04
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Downforce doesn't really work for improving cornering speed on bikes though, because of the whole leaning thing. Conventional wings (i.e. putting downforce along the vertical axis of the bike) would make things worse, because the downforce would be split between pushing the tyre into the ground and pushing it to the outside of the corner, with that ratio moving towards the latter the more the bike is leaned - even with a theoretically perfect tyre and suspension design that perfectly translated downward force into the tyre into resistance to sideways force all that happens is that once you hit 45 degrees of lean you end up with no more grip than if you had no downforce. So what this is telling me it's that once you go past 45 degrees of lean you're better off with lift than with downforce. Which is something active aero could help with.
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Jun 20, 2020 17:20
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