|
Griftlands is pretty good, but I feel like it makes a lot of gameplay decisions that don't properly fit with a Roguelite game. Runs can be pretty long and if you're not careful or lucky there's a very big chance you spend 30+ minutes on a run that's already a loss, and there are not that many real options as far as deck archetypes go. I finished a couple of runs with both characters and haven't really felt the urge to do more.
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 15:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 15:07 |
|
|
It does feel a bit lacking in card/build variety. Only really played a lot of Sal so far, but the archetypes seem to be bleed, combo, discard and improvise. Discard/improvise seem really hard to successfully build so it's generally just come down to stacking a ton of bleed, or stacking a ton of combo points+finishers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 18:22
|
|
|
Whenever I look at gameplay footage of that game its two giant people waist up staring blankly at each other. Is that the core gameplay?
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 18:31
|
|
|
Razakai posted:It does feel a bit lacking in card/build variety. Only really played a lot of Sal so far, but the archetypes seem to be bleed, combo, discard and improvise. Discard/improvise seem really hard to successfully build so it's generally just come down to stacking a ton of bleed, or stacking a ton of combo points+finishers. Rook is way more interesting than Sal, but yeah the decks do feel a little anemic in terms of replay value so far. I've only played about 6 hours so I havent hit the fatigue point yet. Also it looks like there are a bunch of unlocks so hopefully that changes things up. No Wave posted:Whenever I look at gameplay footage of that game its two giant people waist up staring blankly at each other. Is that the core gameplay? Its a good third of the core gameplay yeah, in that thats the backgroud of the "negotiation" fights. I dig the negotiation fights though, they are a cool iteration on the deckbuilding theme. Its especially cool to me that your actions in one gameplay loop effect the other; Like if you kill a bunch of people with your battle deck, you get a reputation for being a bad motherfucker and you get cards added to your negotian deck to reflect that. It provides enough variety that playing the same campaign a few times doesn't get old if you change up the way you interact with the world. Although I do skip basically all the dialogue now. Tofu Injection fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jun 19, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 19:22
|
|
|
Hugoon Chavez posted:Griftlands is pretty good, but I feel like it makes a lot of gameplay decisions that don't properly fit with a Roguelite game. I think it was in development hell for a while and wasn't a roguelike deckbuilder until somewhat recently. I seem to recall seeing it at a tradeshow and it was more of an offbeat jrpg hybrid thing with some extra plot reactivity. It has a really cool look so I'm glad they found some way to get the game out.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2020 01:07
|
|
|
FuzzySlippers posted:I think it was in development hell for a while and wasn't a roguelike deckbuilder until somewhat recently. I seem to recall seeing it at a tradeshow and it was more of an offbeat jrpg hybrid thing with some extra plot reactivity. It has a really cool look so I'm glad they found some way to get the game out. Yeah, the main selling point has always been that negotiation and physical combat would both be similarly involved. But the whole deckbuilder structure was introduced long after development began.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2020 07:26
|
|
|
Gunfire Reborn seems really promising. I've been having fun with it, and it's almost a recommend even though it's early access. The gunplay is very good. It needs a lot more variety in the early game though because you spend a lot of time grinding through the first set of levels and you see the same poo poo repeatedly. The meta progression bar seems a bit too high right now. I can see why people are comparing it to Borderlands when I watch a YouTuber play it with tons of stuff unlocked, but if you're low level, the guns don't vary much outside of their core functions. Keep an eye out for when this one gets polished and out of early access. I think it's gonna be better than Immortal Redneck. I think this guy's review is on-point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM8CZdftTLc PostNouveau fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Jun 20, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2020 14:39
|
|
|
I found the lack of early game variation coupled with the insane grind really turned me off. I'm also something of an outlier in thinking the gunplay was crap, it felt like every other unity FPS out there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2020 17:44
|
|
|
the movement and level design in immortal redneck are both way better
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2020 17:48
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:the movement and level design in immortal redneck are both way better So far. I assume they'll add a lot more rooms before it's finished. I doubt he movement will ever be as good as Immortal Redneck. It's quite frustrating in the platforming challenge parts.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2020 18:09
|
|
|
This roguelite has a lovely art style and a original setting. Promising: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ2vn_4xggQ
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2020 12:45
|
|
|
Shadow of the Wyrm with a solid v1.2.0 update, though primarily that constitutes the massive task that was adding sprites to the game beyond the ASCII: https://www.shadowofthewyrm.org/
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2020 13:30
|
|
|
It took me until halfway through my third play through Void Bastards to realize you can freely save scum. If a mission goes south you can just quit to the main menu at any time and you'll be back in orbit, allowing you to decide if you want to try again or just skip the ship (e.g. power's out). Void Bastard's combat consists of constant chip damage with very few chances to get gibbed, so this completely trivializes even the highest difficulties.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 07:08
|
|
|
I haven't played Void Bastards but that seems more like a failure of player willpower than it is a failure of game design.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 07:58
|
|
|
William Henry Hairytaint posted:I haven't played Void Bastards but that seems more like a failure of player willpower than it is a failure of game design. You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 08:05
|
|
|
Savescumming makes a game easy? Wow, I never, in my life, would have suspected that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 08:16
|
|
|
William Henry Hairytaint posted:I haven't played Void Bastards but that seems more like a failure of player willpower than it is a failure of game design.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 09:14
|
|
|
Gobbeldygook posted:I cannot think of another rogue-like/lite where you can just quit to main menu without saving unless you alt+f4 or the like. Mandatory save on quit is a defining feature of the genre. Count that as one of the differences between roguelikes and roguelites. Slay the Spire and Monster Train both let you restart a fight by returning to the main menu, although in both cases the fight will replay identically as your card draws are determined by the seed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 10:00
|
|
|
I would say more "encounter" based roguelike/lites, like Monster Train and StS tend to start you at the beginning of an encounter upon quit. Void Bastards extends "encounter" to mean the entire ship is all, and they aren't really wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 10:56
|
|
|
Speaking of which. Monster Train is good af and I didn't even like Slay the Spire. Hope they keep pumping out more content for it. P.S. Someone tell me how to play Blue decks, I extremely don't get them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 11:02
|
|
|
Jack Trades posted:Speaking of which. Monster Train is good af and I didn't even like Slay the Spire. The big realization for blue decks is that things keep buffs when they die, but if they have burnout it stacks. If your 9/2 with burnout 2 dies as a 12/5 and you play a card that brings him back with burnout 1 and +3 +3, he will come back as a 15/8 burnout 3. I generally run resurrect decks where, other than a few key units I want alive constantly I just let units die and come back as needed. This starts to be more difficult once you hit the covenant rank that gives your top floor daze. In a resurrection archetype you really like units with on death effects. There's also a more general burnout build, where you take advantage of the fact that burnout units have generally nice stats, and try to stock up on cards that let you keep them around. There's a unit whose revenge gives everything on her floor another stack of burnout, and a few other cards that also add burnout. You will end up wanting a few ressurect cards in a burnout deck and vis versa, but you want to mostly commit. If you are bringing back most of your units you don't want to prolong them too much, they get stats when they die. This works with morsels too, and I've gotten Brown/Blue wins where I constantly resurrected the same progressively more and powerful morsels, let them attack once then be food, only to come back the next turn even closer to becoming the one true Super Saiyin. Mithross fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Jun 22, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 11:28
|
|
|
How are resurrect decks supposed to handle bosses though? I can deal with normal enemies no problems but when it comes to killing the boss all my units burnout before being able to finish the job and if I play the Lady of the Reformed deck then my units often don't have enough stats instead because they haven't been Reformed much.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 12:01
|
|
|
Jack Trades posted:How are resurrect decks supposed to handle bosses though? I can deal with normal enemies no problems but when it comes to killing the boss all my units burnout before being able to finish the job and if I play the Lady of the Reformed deck then my units often don't have enough stats instead because they haven't been Reformed much. Early on you might take some hits, but if your units burn out before they kill bosses you haven’t resurrected them enough. You really want to control your pool and stack resurrects. Fish for holdover on the targeted resurrection spell, work hard on having the same few units (preferably with multi strike) die repeatedly. As you bring them back their burnout counts go up and you can start putting them up front to take hits. Having your champion with the resurrection passive is pretty vital; I’ve never been particularly successful with the burnout upgrades. Also look for the spells that scale based on unit deaths. The game doesn’t care that they come back, it increments each time they die. A large part of your boss strategy is going to be tied to your allied faction. Every faction has some units or buffs that are way more powerful when you bring them back. Keep the Lady of the Reformed in your middle lane with free space behind her, put the creature you want around for two boss fights on the bottom, and when it dies put it behind the Lady so it’s 1 burnout doesn’t matter. With brown you can funnel most of your morsels to one creature and then put him in two places. Red can summon the same rage imp a half a dozen times (and hopefully have rage not decay). Blue is very combo enabling and you want to look for silly insane bullshit you can’t do with only the number of units that fit in any other deck. Edit: Resurrection decks have one other advantage I forgot to mention. Get the guy who has a harvest that gives you gold. It adds up very quickly, allowing you to be much more discerning and focused in your purchases, as well as splurge on more purges. Mithross fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Jun 22, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 12:58
|
|
|
Gobbeldygook posted:It took me until halfway through my third play through Void Bastards to realize you can freely save scum. If a mission goes south you can just quit to the main menu at any time and you'll be back in orbit, allowing you to decide if you want to try again or just skip the ship (e.g. power's out). Void Bastard's combat consists of constant chip damage with very few chances to get gibbed, so this completely trivializes even the highest difficulties. Then don’t do it and just don’t play ironman if you can’t win without it? Ironman isn’t even available until you’ve cleared the game once so I don’t see why this is even notable
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 14:44
|
|
|
Hugoon Chavez posted:You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 14:57
|
|
|
Hugoon Chavez posted:You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 14:59
|
|
|
I wish most roguelikes would have normal save options. I don't really care for having to start all over again every time I make a little error. If the game is very varied and replayable, I will play several runs because I like it, I don't need something that forces me to play lots of runs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 15:04
|
|
|
Turin Turambar posted:I wish most roguelikes would have normal save options. I don't really care for having to start all over again every time I make a little error. If the game is very varied and replayable, I will play several runs because I like it, I don't need something that forces me to play lots of runs. You want Caves of Qud.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 15:06
|
|
|
permadeath has significant implications on how the game is structured and diluting that generally leads to a lack of design focus and a worse game granted you can stick wiz mode in for debug purposes and then never design around it whatsoever -- but that just leads to a situation that actually happened in the Caves of Qud thread a while back, where a guy came in complaining that he was stuck and couldn't progress turns out he'd been playing on wiz mode and had garbage gear + skills but had coasted through the game that way because there was zero pressure to ever improve
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 15:47
|
|
|
I can't speak for anyone else but personally, as soon as the threat of permadeath is gone, things are immediately less fun. Roguelikes are designed with that in mind, pull it out and you're sitting on a 2 legged stool. On the other hand, I have never had any desire to play Diablo hardcore. bees x1000 fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jun 22, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 16:03
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:permadeath has significant implications on how the game is structured and diluting that generally leads to a lack of design focus and a worse game Well, getting stuck and not being able to advance should be some pressure to improve!
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 16:16
|
|
|
Been playing Griftlands on and off over the last few days, just unlocked all the cards for the second character. I think I like the secondary minigame of managing your relationships to maximize social boons/banes more than the actual deckbuilding and combat, which is functional at best. Negotiating is fun, though, and I like how you have the choice of talking or fighting your way through most of the quests. Hoping for the upcoming third character to really shake things up, he looks pretty fun to play.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 18:05
|
|
|
I think most roguelikes would remain playable if dying meant going back a floor and having the floor you were on re-randomized, rather than having to start from scratch. It'd be a different and arguably worse experience, but for someone who just wants to see the game without dying 100 times to skeletons in the second area, it might be preferable. Elephant Parade fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jun 22, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 19:46
|
|
|
Turin Turambar posted:I wish most roguelikes would have normal save options. I don't really care for having to start all over again every time I make a little error.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 19:57
|
|
|
Roguelikes still haven't cracked the 'beginning is repetitious and often boring' code, and meta-progression is definitely not helping that. Inverted difficulty curve is another, though that one does vary significantly by game (a lot of roguelites or whatever the gently caress are still pretty hard near endgame, generally the ones that rely more on action skill than rpg stats).
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 20:10
|
|
|
victrix posted:Roguelikes still haven't cracked the 'beginning is repetitious and often boring' code, and meta-progression is definitely not helping that. Crawls early game is genuinely pretty fast to play and isn't that bad if you are careful.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 20:32
|
|
|
bees x1000 posted:On the other hand, I have never had any desire to play Diablo hardcore. Diablo and diablo-likes don't have interesting in-the-moment problem solving of most roguelikes, it's about Number Go Up and just clicking things until they're dead. Whatever actual interesting decision making there is, it's in the meta character-building level, the actual combat is barely ok at best (and even that is rare). Which is why it's always weird to me how diablo-likes like to advertise a permadeath option as a feature since since it really isn't a good fit with that style of game, since you spend a lot more time with a single character than in in a decently well paced roguelike, and the boring early-game problem is even worse there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2020 20:58
|
|
|
Turin Turambar posted:I wish most roguelikes would have normal save options. I don't really care for having to start all over again every time I make a little error. If the game is very varied and replayable, I will play several runs because I like it, I don't need something that forces me to play lots of runs. tome has a mode that allows you to continue after death, if that's what you're after, but i feel like most roguelikes would immediately descend into playing like poo poo, dying, and reloading until the RNG finally blessed you and allowed you to get away with your errors. Which isn't really a fun way to go about things.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2020 00:13
|
|
|
cock hero flux posted:tome has a mode that allows you to continue after death, if that's what you're after, but i feel like most roguelikes would immediately descend into playing like poo poo, dying, and reloading until the RNG finally blessed you and allowed you to get away with your errors. Which isn't really a fun way to go about things. Tome’s default mode gives you multiple lives, which works fine considering that the campaign is very long and the random nature of bosses tends to produce extreme spikes of difficulty with little warning. In a more bite-sized roguelike session, permadeath is the norm for a reason.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2020 01:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 15:07 |
|
|
IronicDongz posted:you are essentially saying "I wish most roguelikes were not roguelikes" Yeah I'm not really a stickler for the definition of roguelike anymore but things still have qualities that define them and some implementation of permadeath and some implementation of procedural generation are the hill I would die on.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2020 01:07
|
|
