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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Aris is technically right in one sense: Leia leans toward the rightist fringes of the Republican party. She and her followers share much of their neofeudal ideology with Count Dooku. What Jedi though? By the end Rey's the only one left and she winds up loving off to Tatooine to become a moisture farmer or something.
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Jun 19, 2020 12:42
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Arist posted:TLJ, the only movie in the franchise that even tries to contextualize the effect of cycles of war on the galaxy outside of the major powers. This is patently false. The theatrical cut of ANH explicitly shows the interactions the Empire has with the common citizenry of their subject world of Tatooine. And if you want to talk about extended scenes Biggs and Luke have a full on conversation about how poo poo the Empire is for the people living under it and how Biggs wants to join the Rebellion explicitly because of it. Then in TPM the entire plot revolves around how the Republic has become so rotten and corrupt it won't even protect the people of Naboo, and how the people of Naboo eventually have to rescue themselves since the big political players won't help them. Not to mention TPM also shows us what it's like outside the Republic with the characters spending the whole second act hanging out with the commoners of Tatooine.
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Jun 19, 2020 13:44
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If anything the resistance are mujahideen.
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Jun 19, 2020 13:53
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Larryb posted:What Jedi though? By the end Rey's the only one left and she winds up loving off to Tatooine to become a moisture farmer or something. Exactly. Leia is totally nutso. And yet, that’s the plot of the first two films: “This [map] will begin to make things right”, because they think Luke can restore the Jedi Order. At the end of TFA, Rey is sent to restore the Jedi Order: “We need the Jedi Order back.” This is repeated again and again, and it’s hard to read it as anything but theocratic. Count Dooku and Mace Windu both ended up believing the Republic’s liberal democracy was too corrupt, and that the Jedi should step in and do a coup. (Both Snoke and Palpatine were democratically elected).
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Jun 19, 2020 16:05
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Finally got around to watch the rise of Skywalker, and keep wondering what the hell happened there in the production? It's not even structured like a movie, more like a gameshow, Fort Boyard or something alike - just one setpiece challenge rushed into another through some nonsensical reason.
Pyromancer fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Jun 19, 2020 |
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Jun 19, 2020 16:48
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Pyromancer posted:Finally got around to watch the rise of skywalker, and keep wondering what the hell happened there in the production? It's not even structured like a movie, more like a gameshow, Fort Boyard or something alike - just one setpiece challenge rushed into another through some nonsensical reason. yeah but have you considered how many of these setpieces can be used in trailers?
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Jun 19, 2020 16:51
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It gets more coherent the 3rd and 4th time watching it For me at least.
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Jun 19, 2020 16:53
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Pyromancer posted:It's not even structured like a movie I'm convinced this is by design. It's just a montage of shiny objects and familiar things (which I know is a charge that can and has been leveled at star wars since 1977)
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Jun 19, 2020 16:55
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Whomever pointed out the Palp reveal was supposed to be later in the movie is right I think
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Jun 19, 2020 17:04
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The dead speak!
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Jun 19, 2020 17:09
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euphronius posted:Whomever pointed out the Palp reveal was supposed to be later in the movie is right I think Yeah that seems to be the case, although I wonder what they felt necessitated showing him immediately? Was it that Kylo's mission took too long to set up otherwise (i.e., all the cut stuff on Mustafar)? My favorite weird structural thing is that there's about a 40 minute stretch of movie that you could excise entirely and lose almost nothing. If you eliminate the plot point about Threepio not being permitted to translate Sith, you can jump from the guys finding the knife on Pasaana and leaving the cave straight to the sequence at the Death Star wreckage, and the only thing of consequence that's really lost is Ben revealing to Rey that she's a Palpatine, which could easily just be moved to their fight at the Death Star. Beyond that, all that happens in that sequence is: -The Knights of Ren get the drop on Chewie on Pasaana and steal him and the knife. Half an hour later, Rey and friends steal Chewie and the knife back in a consequence-free outing. -C-3PO sacrifices his memories to translate the knife, but not really because he's set back to normal the next time we see him. -We meet some characters who don't really matter beyond the scene they appear in. -Rey and Kylo have two encounters where the amount of relevant information conveyed could easily be rolled into the one we get next.
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Jun 19, 2020 17:19
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You can’t cut back on the number of planets! You will regret this!
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Jun 19, 2020 17:21
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Threepio's sith translation thing is so obviously born out of "we rewatched return of the jedi for ideas to remix and noticed he had that bit about not being able to impersonate a diety" that I was just so annoyed at the whole subplot Fortunately if you dont like something in ROS it's over and gone forever in under 20 minutes, which again is clearly by design
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Jun 19, 2020 17:23
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The timing of the scene where Rey runs away and has to get a pep talk from Luke also feels really strange. Like, killing Chewbacca with force lightning wasn't enough to break her, and neither was the revelation that she was a Palpatine, but for some reason almost killing Kylo Ren and then feeling remorse and healing him was the last straw.
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Jun 19, 2020 17:26
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General Dog posted:Yeah that seems to be the case, although I wonder what they felt necessitated showing him immediately? Was it that Kylo's mission took too long to set up otherwise (i.e., all the cut stuff on Mustafar)? I think it was purely a marketing brainstorm. Someone high up at Disney was enamored of their own idea of doing a marketing event in that game the kids like these days, whats it called that they managed to get this huge plot revision over it.
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Jun 19, 2020 17:27
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:I think it was purely a marketing brainstorm. Someone high up at Disney was enamored of their own idea of doing a marketing event in that game the kids like these days, whats it called that they managed to get this huge plot revision over it. No, that's not it; I'm sure the final cut was locked in by the time the Fornite thing was conceived. It was certainly a big decision to include Palpatine in the marketing 6 months out from release, but just because the audience knows he's going to be in the movie doesn't mean you have to mention him in the opening crawl and show him 90 seconds into the movie. The movie would still benefit from some kind of build up to seeing him; but I think it was a case where they cut so much material from the first act that they felt like they had to have a scene where he explains himself early on or else nothing wouldn make sense. General Dog fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jun 19, 2020 |
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Jun 19, 2020 17:30
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You're all missing the point. It's not about the details of "who is actually do what" and having things "make sense". It's about recapturing that magic feeling you had watching star wars in 1977 that inspired you to have your tv producer dad get you into the industry so that some day you too could install a failson of your own in the industry It's universal stuff people
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Jun 19, 2020 17:37
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General Dog posted:My favorite weird structural thing is that there's about a 40 minute stretch of movie that you could excise entirely and lose almost nothing. If you eliminate the plot point about Threepio not being permitted to translate Sith, you can jump from the guys finding the knife on Pasaana and leaving the cave straight to the sequence at the Death Star wreckage, and the only thing of consequence that's really lost is Ben revealing to Rey that she's a Palpatine, which could easily just be moved to their fight at the Death Star. But if we cut all that how will we establish that, don't worry everyone, Poe is totally horny for the ladies?
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Jun 19, 2020 17:42
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Ingmar terdman posted:You're all missing the point. It's not about the details of "who is actually do what" and having things "make sense". It's about recapturing that magic feeling you had watching star wars in 1977 that inspired you to have your tv producer dad get you into the industry so that some day you too could install a failson of your own in the industry Jj is obviously the beneficiary of nepotism and a pretty boring dude but he isn’t a total incompetent—TFA and especially ROS are worse than his usual output. There was obviously a ton of behind the scenes fuckery going on we may sadly never learn about.
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Jun 19, 2020 18:07
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Putting Palpatine in the first five seconds of the movie is part of an overall studio directive to remove anything that even remotely resembles a plot twist. Things like Luke Skywalker being alive, and Han Solo being Ben’s father, were obviously shot as twists and then edited not to be. It’s safe to assume that they thought twists would confuse the audience, so every potential twist is pre-empted by bluntly-delivered expository dialogue. Instead of the audience being like “what’s up with this Ren guy?”, and then Han says “Ben!”, and then the audience is like “ohhhhh, Han is a lovely father”, Snoke is just like “AS YOU ALREADY KNOW, HAN SOLO IS THE lovely FATHER YOU’RE MAD AT. I’M ANNOUNCING THIS TO MAKE IT ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THAT THERE IS NO SUBTEXT TO YOUR ACTIONS. THIS DRAWS ATTENTION AWAY FROM WHAT WOULD NORMALLY BE THE TEXT, E.G. YOUR POLITICAL STANCES AND RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.”
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Jun 19, 2020 19:50
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You're probably right, I used to think that it was smart of them to have a couple of Snoke-Kylo scenes early on where they discuss it, because it seemed like such an obvious reveal that the BEN moment would fall flat. The delivery and shooting of "the face of my son" was almost certainly supposed to be their "no I am your father" moment. Almost certainly had the same arguments about Palpatine and ended up with a similar albeit more extreme fix. Kylo of course isn't identified as Ben in the crawl, but the MvS scene is definitely still there to prop up what was going to be a movie long mystery/reveal
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Jun 19, 2020 20:03
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According to the commentary, the Vader mask scene was supposed to be the reveal (where we find out he's Vader's grandson), and then the bit with Snoke's exposition happened later to clarify which of the wonder twins was his parent - they even had to CGI his mask back on because it was supposed to come after he revealed himself to Rey.
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Jun 19, 2020 20:58
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That cgi mask looked so much better than rey's hood https://twitter.com/kyberroses/status/1215097236729868289?lang=en
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Jun 19, 2020 21:05
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Robot Style posted:According to the commentary, the Vader mask scene was supposed to be the reveal (where we find out he's Vader's grandson), and then the bit with Snoke's exposition happened later to clarify which of the wonder twins was his parent - they even had to CGI his mask back on because it was supposed to come after he revealed himself to Rey. Still hate that they chickened out from that:  
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Jun 19, 2020 21:08
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General Hux....lmao
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Jun 19, 2020 21:10
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Wait, so the "I will finish, what you started" scene... Ben's mask was completely CG there?
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Jun 19, 2020 21:15
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teagone posted:Wait, so the "I will finish, what you started" scene... Ben's mask was completely CG there? Nah it's one of the snoke throne holo scenes
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Jun 19, 2020 21:37
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teagone posted:Wait, so the "I will finish, what you started" scene... Ben's mask was completely CG there? Lol after three films we still don't know what it is Kylo thinks Vader started and didn't finish that he felt had to, or even what he believed happened. did he believe the redemption story? That the redemption was a failure on Vader's part? That Vader wasn't redeemed and Luke was lying about it? Does he even know anything happened other than "Vader died for unspecified reasons some point in the past?".
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Jun 19, 2020 22:51
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Poor Ben, thought about sex and died
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Jun 19, 2020 23:09
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Here Lies Ben. He Never Scored.
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Jun 19, 2020 23:44
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The entire sequel trilogy is an absolute failure when you put it all together. gently caress - get Filoni to somehow fix it.
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Jun 19, 2020 23:51
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Vintersorg posted:The entire sequel trilogy is an absolute failure when you put it all together. gently caress - get Filoni to somehow fix it. Filoni is going to bring back Ben Solo from the World Between Worlds and it's gonna own.
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Jun 19, 2020 23:57
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Eh, Resistance means its unfixable.
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Jun 19, 2020 23:59
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Vintersorg posted:The entire sequel trilogy is an absolute failure when you put it all together. gently caress - get Filoni to somehow fix it. The ST are also a failure as stand alone movies. It's gobsmacking how badly they poo poo the bed
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Jun 20, 2020 00:09
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Robot Style posted:According to the commentary, the Vader mask scene was supposed to be the reveal (where we find out he's Vader's grandson), and then the bit with Snoke's exposition happened later to clarify which of the wonder twins was his parent - they even had to CGI his mask back on because it was supposed to come after he revealed himself to Rey. That’s insane though; they could have just muted the “grandpa” line and saved however many tens of thousands of dollars - and it would be a better twist. Kylo saying “grandfather” isn’t blowing anybody’s mind.
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Jun 20, 2020 01:09
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Vintersorg posted:The entire sequel trilogy is an absolute failure when you put it all together. gently caress - get Filoni to somehow fix it. Problem is the well has been poisoned. Just about everyone involved in the ST has said they're not interested in doing any more SW stuff. Even Mark Hamill for God's sake.
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Jun 20, 2020 01:35
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If they wanted to continue in the sequel trilogy era, I think the only real option that isn’t effectively another soft reboot would be to bring kylo back. He’s pretty much the only thing most people seemed to like and adam driver conspicuously didn’t burn his bridges with disney when everyone else was.
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Jun 20, 2020 01:45
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SolarFire2 posted:Problem is the well has been poisoned. Just about everyone involved in the ST has said they're not interested in doing any more SW stuff. Even Mark Hamill for God's sake. If they could get Ford back then they can get Hamill for some more ghostly exposition if nothing else.
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Jun 20, 2020 02:30
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Driver is going to be busy doing actual movies for a long time lol He's not gonna rush into a fourth long demanding international shoot that already had obvious diminishing returns across the other three movies. Until they pull up with the dumptruck of money they previously used for harrison's 6/7/9 paydays
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Jun 20, 2020 02:33
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No Mods No Masters posted:If they wanted to continue in the sequel trilogy era, I think the only real option that isn’t effectively another soft reboot would be to bring kylo back. He’s pretty much the only thing most people seemed to like and adam driver conspicuously didn’t burn his bridges with disney when everyone else was. You could probably make a pretty good story with Ben, brought back to life by the force but stripped of his powers, his title, and his empire, bumming across the galaxy with force ghost Anakin as a mentor, learning more about the nature of the force and what it will take to truly bring peace to the galaxy in the aftermath of the First Order's collapse and the elimination of the New Republic.
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Jun 20, 2020 02:42
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