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FalconImpala posted:I still have no clue who Dina and Jesse (et al) are and I'm not sure how much thought was given to them in the first place. I'm pretty sure you haven't actually played the game.
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Jun 22, 2020 13:12
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Oxxidation posted:the seraphites turned me against the game's plot from the word go. even for a post-apocalyptic cliche "morally regressive cult with christian overtones" is totally rank Why?
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Jun 22, 2020 13:14
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Originally I was going to play the game at launch but I had a busy weekend so instead I was going to just try my best to stay away from spoilers until I had the time to play it. But then I started hearing about the scandal and couldn’t help but lap up the spoilers slowly but surely. At first I was like yeah okay it’s probably just the usuals suspects complaining about LGBTQ visibility in the game. Then I thought a theme about the futility of revenge seems pretty decent why is that causing such a fuss. Oh, Joel dies early well that’s not what I expected but I’m sure the game is still good why are people over reacting anyway. They make you play as Joel’s killer? Yeah I understand the rage now.
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Jun 22, 2020 13:15
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plasm posted:Originally I was going to play the game at launch but I had a busy weekend so instead I was going to just try my best to stay away from spoilers until I had the time to play it. But then I started hearing about the scandal and couldn’t help but lap up the spoilers slowly but surely. Abby is a better character than Joel
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Jun 22, 2020 13:23
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one of the better parts of the first TLoU is how most communities had abandoned older moral structures in favor of raw pragmatism, as seen with the militant lockdown of the opening zone, tommy's commune, and especially david's little cannibal town. they might chop up human meat but they had rotas, quotas, and grumbled about voting out david himself at the next town meeting on account of his bullshit diverting Hurricane Joel into their community. christian cults are a cheap and lazy way to create a uniform villainous faction that riles up mushy liberal sensibilities - it's not enough that they want to kill you, they hate the gays and deadname the trans character! my main concern with the sequel right from the word go is that it wasn't going to do anything to sufficiently distinguish itself from its predecessor, and the fact that they immediately went with one of the hoariest tropes this side of the walking dead only validated it
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Jun 22, 2020 13:24
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:Abby is a better character than Joel nah
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Jun 22, 2020 13:24
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They're not a Christian cult, lol.
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Jun 22, 2020 13:25
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Dan Didio posted:They're not a Christian cult, lol. they're called the seraphites, even if they don't praise jesus the label still applies perfectly well
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Jun 22, 2020 13:30
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Dan Didio posted:They're not a Christian cult, lol. I felt it was inspired by Islam rather than Christianity, actually.
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Jun 22, 2020 13:31
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Oxxidation posted:they're called the seraphites, even if they don't praise jesus the label still applies perfectly well Oh okay, despite not being Christian or having a Christian belief system or origin, they're totally a Christian cult then because their name has 'seraph' in it. Have you actually played the game?
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Jun 22, 2020 13:32
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I honestly don't understand what people wanted this game to be. If they just wanted it to be Joel and Ellie travel across America again that would be painfully uninteresting If it was just Ellie's revenge story played straight that would have been awful too A lot of people say no there just shouldn't have been a sequel, I disagree since I'm so pleased with what we got but yeah sure the first game has a thematic resonance and complete narrative arc of its own (as does this one). ND did four games of white man kills everyone violence is not to be taken seriously with a fanservice happy endings and callbacks finale and yeah they were awesome, but did people really expect the next last of us game to be all backslapping and good times as well?
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Jun 22, 2020 13:32
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Char posted:I felt it was inspired by Islam rather than Christianity, actually. Yeah it's essentially the Israel Palestine conflict, the comments about endless war, the homeland, stay off the island, we only kill them because they kill us, attempts at a truce etc etc E: like abby is essentially an IDF soldier who attempts to rescue some refugees and decides to defect and stop killing Palestinians, as absurd as it may sound there are interviews where druckmann talks about conflict in Israel and hamas being an influence in the game and the parallels can't be ignored BOAT SHOWBOAT fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 13:34
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Dan Didio posted:Oh okay, despite not being Christian or having a Christian belief system or origin, they're totally a Christian cult then because their name has 'seraph' in it. i remember your posts from earlier threads well enough to believe that you genuinely don't understand how semantic implication works but you might want to brush up on basic literary concepts if you'd like to keep posting in this one
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Jun 22, 2020 13:34
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:I honestly don't understand what people wanted this game to be. Oh, that's easy. Not set in america or not existing. That's what people wanted a TLOU sequel to be. They wanted to see the rest of the world, or, they didn't want a sequel to exist. No one wanted to see Ellie and Joel on another adventure, there was content feelings their story had concluded. In fact Neil Druckmann even brings up that when people heard a sequel was coming or were talking about it, they deliberately asked for it to not be about Joel and Ellie.
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Jun 22, 2020 13:37
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Dan Didio posted:Oh okay, despite not being Christian or having a Christian belief system or origin, they're totally a Christian cult then because their name has 'seraph' in it. Char posted:I felt it was inspired by Islam rather than Christianity, actually.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraph https://www.etymonline.com/word/seraph
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Jun 22, 2020 13:37
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Oxxidation posted:i remember your posts from earlier threads well enough to believe that you genuinely don't understand how semantic implication works but you might want to brush up on basic literary concepts if you'd like to keep posting in this one Play the ball, not the man. Point to their Christian origins or ideology in the game, not just semantic or linguistic comparisons, something concrete that identifies them as a Christian cult. Also, it would be nice if you answered my question. Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 13:38
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SUNKOS posted:The only thing I don't get (may or may not be explained later) is why Abby let Tommy and Ellie live? You get to watch the scene again from another angle and with more dialogue that was drowned out by the "shock" sound the first time around, but it still doesn't make much sense that they would leave witnesses. I think the great lesson the game is trying to teach you is to never leave witnesses 
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Jun 22, 2020 13:41
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WRT Seraphites: dunno, the biggest lead is that they have a class system, but there are no difference between political rulers and theological rulers. The word of the prophet is the foundation of the law of the land, which is something resonating way more with Islam than Christianity.
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Jun 22, 2020 13:41
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:A lot of people say no there just shouldn't have been a sequel, I disagree since I'm so pleased with what we got but yeah sure the first game has a thematic resonance and complete narrative arc of its own (as does this one). I'm in the "there shouldn't have been a sequel" camp, because the first game told a complete story and there was no way they'd follow up on its ending without making some portion of their audience extremely mad about it. The best part of the first game's ending was the open question of how Ellie obviously knowing that Joel was lying about the events in the hospital would affect their relationship, and that's only addressed in a flashback 5 minutes before the end of the game. The protagonists of this game may not be generic gruff white dudes but they still do more or less nothing but run around killing dudes while occasionally making snarky quips. Abby even sort of has a happy ending, if you ignore everyone she knows except Lev being dead.
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Jun 22, 2020 13:42
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Onmi posted:Oh, that's easy. Not set in america or not existing. That's what people wanted a TLOU sequel to be. They wanted to see the rest of the world, or, they didn't want a sequel to exist. No one wanted to see Ellie and Joel on another adventure, there was content feelings their story had concluded. In fact Neil Druckmann even brings up that when people heard a sequel was coming or were talking about it, they deliberately asked for it to not be about Joel and Ellie. It's this one. I remember around the time the first one ended and people were discussing it there was a "I want more" movement, but it always had the label of "I want more- but leave Ellie and Joel's stories as they are. Don't feature them."
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Jun 22, 2020 13:42
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davejk posted:The best part of the first game's ending was the open question of how Ellie obviously knowing that Joel was lying about the events in the hospital would affect their relationship, and that's only addressed in a flashback 5 minutes before the end of the game. It's addressed throughout, that scene is just the denouement of that particular thread which is important because it informs a lot of why Ellie is so obsessed with avenging him, it's why there's so much tension throughout Ellie and Joel's relationship, why Ellie is driven away from him and why their relationship gradually sours in the flashbacks. davejk posted:Abby even sort of has a happy ending, if you ignore everyone she knows except Lev being dead. That seems like a big thing to ignore.
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Jun 22, 2020 13:45
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it was already a given that joel and ellie's little personal tale would end in disaster if you told it long enough, leaving it on an ambiguous note was the right choice instead they plodded it out to the grisly aftermath while repeating the first game's themes through a megaphone
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Jun 22, 2020 13:45
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:It's this one. I remember around the time the first one ended and people were discussing it there was a "I want more" movement, but it always had the label of "I want more- but leave Ellie and Joel's stories as they are. Don't feature them." For better or worse, there was no way that the sequel to an acclaimed triple-A title wasn't going to feature the characters from the original in a major way. I'm having a hard time even thinking of an example where that happened... Dragon Age, I guess?
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Jun 22, 2020 13:46
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I disagree that the gameplay is stick in 2010. It's much harder to hit with firearms, and once someone is within ten feet of you, melee is the only option. Infected also gently caress you up much easier in melee.
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Jun 22, 2020 13:46
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Nail Rat posted:I disagree that the gameplay is stick in 2010. It's much harder to hit with firearms, and once someone is within ten feet of you, melee is the only option. Infected also gently caress you up much easier in melee. those complaints probably originate less in the minutiae of aiming and damage and more that it's the same "stealth, shoot, pick up trinkets and crafting materials and forlorn little notes scattered about" loop that's existed in just about every big-budget third-person game for well over a decade now i haven't gotten tired of it but i can see how some people would start getting a little weary of all this cash and manpower being dumped into something that innovates so little on the actual gameplay
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Jun 22, 2020 13:49
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I haven't played this game or the first and don't plan to, and this is probably a dumb question, but what's with people online comparing a character from this game (Abby?) to Senator Armstrong from MGR? All I can find is a trail of delisted youtube videos removed by Sony's lawyer squad.
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Jun 22, 2020 13:49
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r u ready to WALK posted:You get to watch the scene again from another angle and with more dialogue that was drowned out by the "shock" sound the first time around, but it still doesn't make much sense that they would leave witnesses. That is really the lesson of this game. It's not that a cross-country revenge trip is a pointless murder grind that'll destroy you and cost you everything you love and hold dear. It's that you gotta be more thorough with your murder. If they'd killed Tommy and Ellie, Dina and Jessie wouldn't have known where they were or what had happened, they'd be mad with no one to blame. Revenge successfully got. And honestly, they went for the most cliche ending. Where the 'hero' spares the 'villain' despite the massive slaughter on the way there, because, I dunno. I still think, for hilarity perspective, my favourite take on "If you kill him, you'll be just like him" was a character responding "No I won't, he'll be dead, that's the point." Just because I hadn't really seen that response and it tickled me. Skippy McPants posted:For better or worse, there was no way that the sequel to an acclaimed triple-A title wasn't going to feature the characters from the original in a major way. Fallout games and Elder Scrolls games. Pokemon, though I guess that's not triple-A, it just makes more money than God. Final Fantasy, rear end Creed? Uh... is generic shootmans in the CoDs and Battlefields different each game? I genuinely don't know. Procrastine posted:I haven't played this game or the first and don't plan to, and this is probably a dumb question, but what's with people online comparing a character from this game (Abby?) to Senator Armstrong from MGR? All I can find is a trail of delisted youtube videos removed by Sony's lawyer squad. She's modeled after a Bodybuilder/weightlifter not sure which actually, something involving a lot of the gym. And people have brains that make dumb jokes.
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Jun 22, 2020 13:50
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Procrastine posted:I haven't played this game or the first and don't plan to, and this is probably a dumb question, but what's with people online comparing a character from this game (Abby?) to Senator Armstrong from MGR? All I can find is a trail of delisted youtube videos removed by Sony's lawyer squad. haven't seen it myself, but abby is unusually muscular and this has prompted a wave of insufferable right-wing funnymen to make disparaging comments and comparisons regarding her physique
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Jun 22, 2020 13:51
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Skippy McPants posted:For better or worse, there was no way that the sequel to an acclaimed triple-A title wasn't going to feature the characters from the original in a major way. basically every big ubisoft franchise does this, outside of ezio getting his own little trilogy
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Jun 22, 2020 13:53
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Onmi posted:
crossfitter
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Jun 22, 2020 13:53
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It probably also has to do with her showdown with Ellie in the leaks being very violent, I can sorta see how the dumb neurons in the brain jumped to it, but yeah it's just a dumb stupid joke. It's like when people take a frame of the game and they make a meme template of it. Which is like... what we're up to 4 or 5 of TLOU2? It's Chokepost, Fuckposting, Punchposting, Biteposting... I don't know if there's another. It's like what even causes your brain to take that image and find it funny, I dunno. am0kgonzo posted:crossfitter Thank you! EDIT: Babyposting! That's the fifth one! Onmi fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 13:54
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Onmi posted:That is really the lesson of this game. It's not that a cross-country revenge trip is a pointless murder grind that'll destroy you and cost you everything you love and hold dear. Yeah, I think that's by far the weakest part of the story. ND drew these societies and these people who have absolutely no problem killing the poo poo out of whoever they percieve to be their enemies but this is a discussion that happens in that room. I think the story construction would've been a lot better if the SLC crew had basically just shot Joel and ran off skittishly instead of trying to have the visual of the killing be an emotional beat. I'd find that a lot more believable if they're really worried about 'being like joel' than having a big philosophical argument. Then it'd be way easier to justify Tommy and Ellie living, just have Tommy out pissing and Ellie just finding the corpse- maybe she and Tommy go and kill a straggler for the clue to go to Seattle or something.
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Jun 22, 2020 13:55
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Panzeh posted:Then it'd be way easier to justify Tommy and Ellie living, just have Tommy out pissing and Ellie just finding the corpse- maybe she and Tommy go and kill a straggler for the clue to go to Seattle or something. That would be hugely deficit of drama.
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Jun 22, 2020 13:56
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Panzeh posted:Yeah, I think that's by far the weakest part of the story. ND drew these societies and these people who have absolutely no problem killing the poo poo out of whoever they percieve to be their enemies but this is a discussion that happens in that room. i don't like a lot of the story beats but that wouldn't work ellies revenge is justified to a degree imho not because they just kill joel but because of the way they do it
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Jun 22, 2020 13:58
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Dan Didio posted:That would be hugely deficit of drama. The scene wasn't dramatic though, I laughed at it, I watched other people laugh at. Or if they didn't laugh at it, with the most bored look on their face, they got up out of the room, or they got the disc out and chopped it up, and just sighed, and just didn't really care. Which goes back to what I said. This is a narrative game, your ability to like the game is hinging on you getting to that scene, and feeling drama and emotion, and not... comedic laughter or boredom or fed up.
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Jun 22, 2020 13:59
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Storytelling in the modern era has been fundamentally broken by the endless reel of explainer content online and that the only way people know how to process narrative is at a distance, in a logic and problem solving exercise.
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Jun 22, 2020 14:00
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Onmi posted:The scene wasn't dramatic though, I laughed at it, I watched other people laugh at. Or if they didn't laugh at it, with the most bored look on their face, they got up out of the room, or they got the disc out and chopped it up, and just sighed, and just didn't really care. one of these things is not like the other
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Jun 22, 2020 14:01
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Brother Entropy posted:basically every big ubisoft franchise does this, outside of ezio getting his own little trilogy Onmi posted:Fallout games and Elder Scrolls games. Pokemon, though I guess that's not triple-A, it just makes more money than God. Final Fantasy, rear end Creed? Uh... is generic shootmans in the CoDs and Battlefields different each game? I genuinely don't know. Fair enough, it's early and I was drawing a blank. I do agree that they would have been better off going for an anthology approach. A game that focused entirely on Abby and the conflict with the Seraphites coulda been a lot more interesting. Oxxidation posted:haven't seen it myself, but abby is unusually muscular and this has prompted a wave of insufferable right-wing funnymen to make disparaging comments and comparisons regarding her physique One thing that stood out to me in that regard is the ending scene where Abby's been held by the Rattlers for months and is emaciated when Ellie finds her. They went through the trouble of using an entirely different character model just for that one scene. I just... I can't get over how massive the production values in this game are, and what it must have cost the people who suffered under years of crunch to make it happen. It wouldn't be worth it even if they'd made the best game in history.
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Jun 22, 2020 14:01
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Onmi posted:The scene wasn't dramatic though, I laughed at it, I watched other people laugh at. Or if they didn't laugh at it, with the most bored look on their face, they got up out of the room, or they got the disc out and chopped it up, and just sighed, and just didn't really care. No, it's definitely dramatic, you're confusing impactful with dramatic. If it didn't land for you, well, I can't help you there, but there's a lot more drama in having Joel's two closest family members and the only people who really understand him forced to witness parts of his brutal murder than to just happen on the after effects. You could tell the story that way, sure, but it's definitely not as dramatic.
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Jun 22, 2020 14:01
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Onmi posted:That is really the lesson of this game. It's not that a cross-country revenge trip is a pointless murder grind that'll destroy you and cost you everything you love and hold dear.
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Jun 22, 2020 14:02
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