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Keep in mind who we're talking about here and how they handled shoe-horning that guy from Summer Knight (that was a descendant of the Red Cap or something) into Cold Days.
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Jun 22, 2020 16:34
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Keep in mind who we're talking about here and how they handled shoe-horning that guy from Summer Knight (that was a descendant of the Red Cap or something) into Cold Days. Yeah, Butcher sure did have someone who showed up in an earlier book turn up again in a later one, you got him there. Unrelated, started reading Akata Witch by Nnedi Okorafor, and I'm enjoying it a lot so far. Definitely written for a younger audience but that's no bad thing. It gets a lot of Harry Potter comparisons (more than the author likes, as I understand it) but the similarities are just superficial from what I've seen (young girl develops magical powers and proceeds, with her friends, to learn more about them), and it's very much set and grounded in modern-day Nigeria rather than in a fantasy schoolhouse that could be literally anywhere. One thing I've really enjoyed so far is that Sunny (the protagonist) at one point gets a sort of guidebook for "free agents" (people with magic who didn't directly inherit the tendency from their parents) that takes a really dismissive and condescending tone in its text. (We get to see a number of excerpts from this book; it's how we're introduced to the ins and outs of magic in this world.) She gets upset about this and is told that "yeah, the author had a total class thing against 'uncultured' people learning magic, it's just something you have to put up with."
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Jun 22, 2020 19:28
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Blamestorm posted:Remember that Molly was being prepared anyway as a contingency, hence all the training with Harry’s godmother. But I think in respect to Michael, he would straight out go to Harry/Molly and have it out, he wouldn’t muck around with anything subtle. Let's not forget about Warden Luccio, either. While mental manipulation was part of it, she and Harry were lovers for a while, so her acting against him would also be very much a betray as well. I'm wondering if we'll get some focus on Ancient Mai and Martha Liberty. I don't recall that Liberty has had so much as a spoken line in the series yet, and she's a member of the Senior Council.
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Jun 22, 2020 20:03
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docbeard posted:Yeah, Butcher sure did have someone who showed up in an earlier book turn up again in a later one, you got him there. Someone that added nothing of value to the story except "remember this character? Pepperidge Farm does". quote:Unrelated, started reading Akata Witch by Nnedi Okorafor, and I'm enjoying it a lot so far. Definitely written for a younger audience but that's no bad thing. It gets a lot of Harry Potter comparisons (more than the author likes, as I understand it) but the similarities are just superficial from what I've seen (young girl develops magical powers and proceeds, with her friends, to learn more about them), and it's very much set and grounded in modern-day Nigeria rather than in a fantasy schoolhouse that could be literally anywhere. This is much more interesting. Turns out there is a whole lot of other urban fantasy out there that is much better than Dresden that this thread (or any of its predecessors) just don't/doesn't talk about much. Just started City of Brass and it is just far and away more interesting than any of the thread favorites. Akata Witch is on my to-do reading list as well.
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Jun 23, 2020 03:35
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Everyone posted:Let's not forget about Warden Luccio, either. While mental manipulation was part of it, she and Harry were lovers for a while, so her acting against him would also be very much a betray as well. I'm wondering if we'll get some focus on Ancient Mai and Martha Liberty. I don't recall that Liberty has had so much as a spoken line in the series yet, and she's a member of the Senior Council. Martha had a big part in book 4, and is generally considered to be a Dresden ally, as she's voted with Mccoy in support of Dresden a few times. Ancient Mai is generally a Dresden opponent / has voted with the Merlin against him on a few occasions but did come out in support of Dresden by proxy around the end of Proven Guilty (or whatever the Morgan focused one was) by confirming that with Mouse being a Fu Dog, his word was without question. I'm far more likely to buy a betrayal from Ramirez, who knows just enough to be dangerous, and approached Dresden of his own accord to "confirm" Dresdens theory of there being a Black Council.
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Jun 23, 2020 04:22
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Just started City of Brass and it is just far and away more interesting than any of the thread favorites. Akata Witch is on my to-do reading list as well. Akata Witch sounds cool and goes into my backlog. I loved Who Fears Death and this may be a slightly less grim experience?
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Jun 23, 2020 09:04
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anilEhilated posted:City of Brass is great but I'm not sure if I'd call it UF; it veers into the classic medieval swords and magic territory quickly, turning into a pretty standard palace intrigue fantasy story. The setting and pacing definitely elevate it above most of the genre, though; can't wait for the third book. I figure if it takes place in a city, it's UF. Even if that city isn't a modern city.
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Jun 23, 2020 12:03
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biracial bear for uncut posted:I figure if it takes place in a city, it's UF. Even if that city isn't a modern city. I don't know. I figure a lot of these genres are like the one judge said about porn, "I can't specifically define it, but I know it when I see it." Hell, parts of Harry Potter tale place in the modern (well, really, mid-90s) city of London, but I wouldn't call even those parts "urban fantasy." It'd be like calling the Sherlock Holmes stories "Noir" because there's a private investigator in them.
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Jun 23, 2020 15:07
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Everyone posted:I don't know. I figure a lot of these genres are like the one judge said about porn, "I can't specifically define it, but I know it when I see it." Hell, parts of Harry Potter tale place in the modern (well, really, mid-90s) city of London, but I wouldn't call even those parts "urban fantasy." There's an inherent bit of arbitrary silliness to genre arguments but that's kind of what makes them fun. Urban Fantasy as a genre is an interesting case since there seem to be two simultaneous ways people use the term. There's 'fantasy in a modern-day real-world setting' as a whole, which can encompass work by Charles De Lint or Emma Bull or even, yes, Harry Potter (though I'd argue that, since its presence in the modern world is largely a technicality and the story wouldn't be fundamentally different if Hogwarts were on Mars), and then there's 'mystery/crime/superhero stories with a fantasy veneer'. Then there's reverse urban fantasy which transposes modern concepts into a fantasy world, like Brust's Jhereg novels or much of Pratchett's Discworld. (You could probably even make an argument for Good Omens as the first kind of urban fantasy.) 'Historical settings with magic in' is also a slightly different, but related, animal. I'm not super familiar with City of Brass but it definitely sounds like something I want to read.
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Jun 23, 2020 15:17
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So, my position is basically this: Urban fantasy is fantasy in an urban setting. Glen Cook's Garrett novels are urban fantasy, but Harry Potter is not. I wouldn't even call HP 'contemporary fantasy' (the other, related, genre), though, since nothing in it requires it be set in the 90s, beyond the
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Jun 23, 2020 15:33
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City of Brass ain't urban fantasy, it's regular fantasy. It fits in the genre about as smoothly as a bull in a china shop. Otherwise we could argue that Wheel of Time is urban fantasy because they go to a city at least once.
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Jun 23, 2020 15:42
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Compare/contrast Michelle Sagara's Elantra series which starts urban fantasy-esque due to being set in an urban environment and having the trappings of the genre - Kaylin is a cop, does cop things, and the city happens to be ruled by a dragon. Then it slowly gets more fantasy as it drops the cop stuff for fantasy adventures, but it never loses its roots entirely.
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Jun 23, 2020 15:44
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Yeah, if the basis is just "takes place in a city" then, maybe not all of Lord of the Rings, but certainly The Two Towers would fit.
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Jun 23, 2020 15:46
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docbeard posted:Yeah, if the basis is just "takes place in a city" then, maybe not all of Lord of the Rings, but certainly The Two Towers would fit. I'd like to see what separates City of Brass from other urban fantasy series these threads have been about, then. I mean, the characters travel from city (Cairo) to city (fictional city Daevabad, the "city of Brass", but one that still exists in the world the book is about), and it's 18th century but it's still urban in that most of the action has to do with urban concerns. There is some mythology there to justify the magic, but the main conflict (that I've read so far, I haven't finished the book) is about race relations in a city that practices some very familiar oppression tactics on minorities.
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Jun 23, 2020 17:16
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There's a bit of a spectrum when it comes to UF, with regards to how fantastical the world is. The key feature, however, is that city life has to be a major element of the book. Dresden's success really pulled the genre towards "cop in a city secretly full of magic," but there's a TON of room for variation when you look at the genre through the lens of life and adventure in a fantastic city. It's that lens that marks the differentiator between Urban Fantasy and "fantasy world where cities exist." Stuff like City of Stairs, Perdido Street Station, and the aforementioned Jhereg (I will never not pimp Stephen Brust's work) are far towards the "fantasy with modern elements" side than most post-Dresden stuff like Rivers of London or The Rook, but I still consider all of them Urban Fantasy, while Harry Potter is not.
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Jun 23, 2020 17:26
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I really need to read City of Brass, I have it on my Kindle but have never gotten around to it. As to the debate on hand, clearly it is "urban" fantasy because it has the word "City" in the title. The Dresden Files series is, surprisingly, not, by that same standard.. The most archetypal urban fantasy novel is clearly, therefore, "The City & The City" by Mieville, because it doubles up. The first book in Ben Aaronovitch's Peter Grant series is urban fantasy in England, but not in America. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 17:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The most archetypal urban fantasy novel is clearly, therefore, "The City & The City" by Mieville, because it doubles up. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 17:51
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:"The City & The City" by Mieville, Did anyone else watch the BBC adaptation of this? It was quite fun, but looked very cheap in a mid-90s kind of way.
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Jun 23, 2020 20:52
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For me, the major deciding factor that makes something urban fantasy is that it's about a modern(ish) city. Otherwise the qualifier loses most of its meaning because "fantasy that takes place inside of a city" is such a broad category as to be effectively meaningless.
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Jun 23, 2020 22:14
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Peace Talks Chapter Four is up now for those interested. And after that I can see how McCoy might be the one to betray Harry. I'm assuming that this is the last chapter before the release. Butcher seems to alternate between four chapters on even books (and this is #16) and five for odd books, (so maybe we'll get five chapters for Battle Ground).
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Jun 24, 2020 02:44
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Everyone posted:Peace Talks Chapter Four is up now for those interested. The post says another chapter next Tuesday so maybe 5?
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Jun 24, 2020 03:20
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I was waiting on Harry spouting off ”And that vampire is your grandson, too.” When things got heated, but I guess not.
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Jun 24, 2020 03:47
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Ramadu posted:The post says another chapter next Tuesday so maybe 5? That'd be cool, though it's still going to make those last two weeks not pass fast enough. mastajake posted:I was waiting on Harry spouting off "And that vampire is your grandson, too." When things got heated, but I guess not. Harry can be a little childish, but he's not actually a child or a fool and he's pretty practiced at keeping secrets. I will say that I do like that during the conversation/yelling match, you could see the points of views of Harry and McCoy enough to not really be able to label either of them as "right" or "wrong." No straw people here. Hell, even the svartelf (sp?) dude had a good point with Knock it the gently caress off, you're scaring the kids.
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Jun 24, 2020 04:46
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hey before the forums disappear i just want 2 say that jim butcher is a hack and im a dummy for probably buying this book in the future lol
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Jun 25, 2020 02:00
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Finally finished False Value. I really enjoy the RoL books, but the last few I’ve found I hit a lull somewhere in the middle, and then it takes me weeks/months to pick it up again.
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Jun 25, 2020 02:25
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Everyone posted:Peace Talks Chapter Four is up now for those interested. This chapter plus the Christmas post Peace Talks short story Butcher already put outkinda imply that McCoy is gonna die before the year is out.
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Jun 25, 2020 03:26
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No idea what's going on with the forums and whether or not they'll be here tomorrow. Just wanted to thank the modmins for taking care of the community and putting up with us pain in the rear end posters! SA has been a part of my life for longer than I remember and you guys do good work. Cheers!
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Jun 25, 2020 03:59
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AppropriateUser posted:This chapter plus the Christmas post Peace Talks short story Butcher already put outkinda imply that McCoy is gonna die before the year is out. Harry is absolutely hosed if that is the case.
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Jun 25, 2020 04:03
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Yeah if the forums die thanks for all the dumb posts about UF over the years (flawed books and all!)
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Jun 25, 2020 04:07
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Just putting up a reminder link for the Book Barn discord:
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Jun 25, 2020 04:54
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Given the world is ending, anyone have any thoughts on what happened to cause the universe of Aeronaut's Windlass? I reread it recently and I've been imagining some sort of The Mist scenario. Maybe it will surprise tie-in with the Dresden apocalyptic trilogy.
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Jun 25, 2020 05:41
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My guess is vord, his bad guys from the Alera series.
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Jun 25, 2020 07:42
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Avalerion posted:My guess is vord, his bad guys from the Alera series. How about this place is Alera after the ginormous ice age Tavi set in motion generations ago destroyed civilization and all the furies.
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Jun 25, 2020 19:49
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VE Schwab has had enough. Follow through for a whole thread. https://twitter.com/veschwab/status/1276051866267287553
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Jun 26, 2020 17:55
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Rereading Blood Rites in preparation and wanted to point out that the "Bolshevik Muppet with all the dynamite" is named Crazy Harry.
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Jun 30, 2020 08:33
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AppropriateUser posted:This chapter plus the Christmas post Peace Talks short story Butcher already put outkinda imply that McCoy is gonna die before the year is out. If that happens after peace talks guess that also means Harry's not loosing the mantle just yet, either. And that he gets to remain on the council, too.
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Jun 30, 2020 16:07
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Avalerion posted:If that happens after peace talks guess that also means Harry's not loosing the mantle just yet, either. And that he gets to remain on the council, too. True, but it's not like either of those things was super-likely to end/alter at this point. Given's Mab's role against the Outsiders, Harry being her Knight to the end of the series makes sense. And Harry's been on the council since Book 1. Hell, he's been a full Warden and regional commander since Book 7. So, yeah, Harry still has the Mantle and he's still a Wizard. Just like he's also still alive at the end of, what, Book 17. Since we know/assume the series goes to Book 23 or so, him still being alive as of the end of Book 17 isn't too much of a shocker either. Figure the real suspense is who makes is through to 17 and what shape will they be in at the end of it?
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Jul 1, 2020 00:20
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StrixNebulosa posted:Compare/contrast Michelle Sagara's Elantra series which starts urban fantasy-esque due to being set in an urban environment and having the trappings of the genre - Kaylin is a cop, does cop things, and the city happens to be ruled by a dragon. Then it slowly gets more fantasy as it drops the cop stuff for fantasy adventures, but it never loses its roots entirely. Are those any good?
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Jul 1, 2020 02:04
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Yes. Michelle Sahara West is superb. Her cast novels are great, and urban fantasy adjacent. If you like epic fantasy run don’t walk to get The Hidden City.
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Jul 1, 2020 02:10
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They're not great but not bad. If you don't like the first couple you won't like the rest. She's pretty consistent.
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Jul 1, 2020 02:24
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