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Arglebargle III posted:
Huh. The sideburns and the gold leaf looking like a high collar makes it look like some kinda Napoleonic-era British Navy captain to my brain.
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Jun 19, 2020 21:08
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Not very ancient but lol (from A View of Devonshire in MDCXXX: With a Pedigree of Most of Its Gentry, by Thomas Westcote, Gent.)
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Jun 19, 2020 21:44
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Omnomnomnivore posted:Huh. The sideburns and the gold leaf looking like a high collar makes it look like some kinda Napoleonic-era British Navy captain to my brain. the bangs give it away though
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Jun 19, 2020 21:47
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"My friend, we've created this wasteland. What shall we tell the gods when we get back home?" - The Epic of Gilgamesh (narrated by Leonard Nemoy)
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Jun 19, 2020 21:49
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skasion posted:Not very ancient but lol Oh, Spitchwick.
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Jun 19, 2020 21:50
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https://twitter.com/serbiaireland/status/1255069819193491456 plus ca change
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Jun 19, 2020 21:51
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I’m no expert on Devon, but the parish name he cites seems to be somewhere else. The book is awesome (and awesomely unfocused and digressive), maybe Spitchwick is in it somewhere for all I know.
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Jun 19, 2020 22:32
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The estates of William Drake Gould devolved on his only son Edward Gould (1740-1788), a spendthrift and a gambler. One evening after a game of cards in which he had lost "every guinea he had about him",[14] he rode off, put a black mask over his face as a highwayman, waylaid the winner of the game and shot him dead.
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Jun 20, 2020 00:35
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PawParole posted:The estates of William Drake Gould devolved on his only son Edward Gould (1740-1788), a spendthrift and a gambler. One evening after a game of cards in which he had lost "every guinea he had about him",[14] he rode off, put a black mask over his face as a highwayman, waylaid the winner of the game and shot him dead. Thug life lol, he got off too skasion fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 00:38
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Does anyone have a list of good sources on church history up to the Great Schism that isn't written from a confessional standpoint (or at least acknowledges the writer's ideological perspective)? The wiki sources list is just shot through by Paulist Press books and by authors with beards down to they dicks and they aren't going to be exactly agnostic about the events, you know?
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Jun 20, 2020 19:57
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Schadenboner posted:Does anyone have a list of good sources on church history up to the Great Schism that isn't written from a confessional standpoint (or at least acknowledges the writer's ideological perspective)? https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Wars-Patriarchs-Emperors-Christians-ebook/dp/B00395ZYVI#customerReviews It doesn't go up to the great schism, but this was recommended to me by one of my theology professors in college about some questions I had on early Christian arguments between Orthodoxy/Arianism/etc. Since this was outside the scope of the class I was taking, but a book he read and felt covered the topic well.
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Jun 20, 2020 20:59
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Jack2142 posted:https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Wars-Patriarchs-Emperors-Christians-ebook/dp/B00395ZYVI#customerReviews I'll take a look, thanks! I'll be honest and say that playing CK2 has made me unhealthy interested in the various heresies of early Christianity and I'm always wondering to what extent the doctrinal stuff was just ciphers for the sort of political and economic reasons I'm more used to ascribing mass violence to (I have a hard time putting myself in the head of someone willing to kill/die to determine if Christ's humanness was like a drop of water in the sea or not) but "the past is a foreign country" (as the kids say these days) and I don't share their world or their priors so I can't necessarily understand their motivations? 
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Jun 20, 2020 21:14
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Schadenboner posted:I'll take a look, thanks! It’s not a one or the other thing. When there is no separation of church and state, religious motives are necessarily political, however sincerely they are also religious. One could look at the Monophysite-Chalcedonian schism as a political struggle for primacy within the church between the patriarchs of Constantinople and Antioch and that of Alexandria, and it was, but they chose to have that political struggle not by saying “I should be head bitch of the church, end of story”, but over an issue of the proper philosophical presentation of the figure of the Roman state’s single politically acceptable god for whom the Roman emperors claimed to rule earth as vicar.
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Jun 20, 2020 21:42
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skasion posted:Not very ancient but lol I'll have you know, I'm descended from a long line of Suckbitchs.
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Jun 21, 2020 04:21
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https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2020/jun/22/experts-call-for-regulation-after-latest-botched-art-restoration-in-spain It happened again...
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Jun 22, 2020 20:58
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/21/botched-spanish-statue-st-george-lovingly-unrestored#img-1 The botched restoration reminds me of those really lovely looking roman statue restorations
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Jun 22, 2020 21:46
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Mister Olympus posted:https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2020/jun/22/experts-call-for-regulation-after-latest-botched-art-restoration-in-spain Someone go gently caress up a painting of Joseph for the dada nativity combo
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Jun 23, 2020 01:57
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Tunicate posted:The botched restoration reminds me of those really lovely looking roman statue restorations I sincerely hope you're not a person who hated the painted statue recreations because the bare white marble ones seemed more "historical" to you.
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Jun 23, 2020 07:07
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https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/29/the-myth-of-whiteness-in-classical-sculpture I feel like a ton of information about the colors of the paint on the statues has been lost, so much so that it's hard to say what the colors looked like back then. The reconstructions are typically done with plaster, which absorbs paint and reflects light differently than painted marble. The reconstructions definitely need time to mature and look as they would. But the important thing is that they were painted, and they were painted with great care and artistry, just as much as what was chiseled into the stone.
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Jun 23, 2020 07:33
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I sincerely hope you're not a person who hated the painted statue recreations because the bare white marble ones seemed more "historical" to you. I'm saying they look lovely, as if someone who lacked artistic experience was treating them as a paint-by-numbers exercise, just as the guy who repainted that saint george statue did.  Same energy Tunicate fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 07:40
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Has there been any experimental archeology on it? Like tasking an actual artist to produce and stage a good looking painted stone statue?
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Jun 23, 2020 07:50
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That would just tell you what "good looking" means to a 21st century artist. It could be the same as what the Romans or Ancient Greeks thought looked good, or it might not. You'd have no way to know.
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Jun 23, 2020 08:10
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While true I'd still like to see someone give it a go. The sculptural style is something we do know very well. We know some of the paints and materials they were made of and can probably have a reasonable guess at what colours were avaliable. While we might not know the painting style, given the realistic nature of the statues I'd love to see a talented artist take the best approximation of materials and have a go with 'heroic realism' or whatever as the goal. I agree with the paint by numbers comment above.
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Jun 23, 2020 08:30
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Yeah, they're all completely flat and 100% saturated, as if the reconstructors were just squirting unmixed paint straight from the tube. We know ancient painters used shading and gradients; do the modern painters only know for certain the undercoat that was used, and can't tell what was layered above, so they don't try? Or is it some sort of stylistic choice?
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Jun 23, 2020 09:01
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A good experiment would be to take period paints and tools, then ask an artist to give it their absolute best. But it could very well be that what we think of as flat and gaudy was pure and beautiful by ancient standards.
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Jun 23, 2020 09:19
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Hell there should be plenty of talented WH painters who could use the work.
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Jun 23, 2020 10:33
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Fuschia tude posted:Yeah, they're all completely flat and 100% saturated, as if the reconstructors were just squirting unmixed paint straight from the tube. We know ancient painters used shading and gradients; do the modern painters only know for certain the undercoat that was used, and can't tell what was layered above, so they don't try? Or is it some sort of stylistic choice? Scumbling layering is a specific thing of oil painting that involves plenty of thinners. Mediterranean painting in antiquity didn't use this kind of binder yet afaik? Other binders pretty much limit how paintings may look like.
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Jun 23, 2020 11:12
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Also, there's a lot of textual evidence dating back to at least Roman times that many of those statues were stark white and never painted. A lot of people just learned about how some Greek and Roman statues were painted in bright colors and leapt onto the idea of "Everything back then was secretly ultra-colorful and we're all wrong about everything!"
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Jun 23, 2020 13:18
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I also think, regardless of historical accuracy, I'd just like to see some really nicely painted sculptures of people. Most realistic (western?) statuary in the last couple of hundred years has been heavily influenced by the idea of Roman/Greek pure white marble statues so what we see around us is that. Be nice to see some new ideas. (I'm fully aware this is where someone says "There's loads of them if you look for them")
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Jun 23, 2020 13:36
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Grevling posted:Hell there should be plenty of talented WH painters who could use the work. Roman/ancient history: Warhammer painters love their statues
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Jun 23, 2020 14:16
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There's a lot of lovely art around today. No reason the Greeks and Romans couldn't have lovely art too.
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Jun 23, 2020 14:44
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Epicurius posted:There's a lot of lovely art around today. No reason the Greeks and Romans couldn't have lovely art too. Sure, but it seems weird for there to be a brilliantly carved statue covered in a crappy paint job. You don't put housepaint on a porsche.
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Jun 23, 2020 15:54
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Sure, but it seems weird for there to be a brilliantly carved statue covered in a crappy paint job. It wasn't my porsche.
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Jun 23, 2020 15:56
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It's incredibly possible that Ancient Romans liked ugly, gaudy things.
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Jun 23, 2020 17:10
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Isn’t there also a school of thought that the statues were gaudily colored because they were usually high on buildings, away from easy viewing, and so the bright colors made them more recognizable at a distance?
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Jun 23, 2020 17:34
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Sure, but it seems weird for there to be a brilliantly carved statue covered in a crappy paint job. Maybe you don't.
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Jun 23, 2020 17:36
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Fuschia tude posted:Yeah, they're all completely flat and 100% saturated, as if the reconstructors were just squirting unmixed paint straight from the tube. We know ancient painters used shading and gradients; do the modern painters only know for certain the undercoat that was used, and can't tell what was layered above, so they don't try? Or is it some sort of stylistic choice? They're just not very good. They're basically taking what the colors of the microscopic paint flecks are and then painting from there. We do actually have painted stuff from antiquity and it all looks way better than the reconstructions. There's a current debate about this, some people think the wild gaudy poo poo is accurate but the consensus is moving toward the original painted material being much more realistic, in line with the surviving original paint we have from classical art, and the reconstructions just being done incompetently. Also the gaudiness and the terrible modern reconstructions aren't in conflict. You can have brightly painted stuff that is done more competently than the ones Tunicate posted. I have zero visual artistic talent and even I can tell those are lovely paint jobs. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 19:17
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What we need to do is find some professional warhammer miniature painters and then get the to go to town on some full size legionnaires and dying gauls and poo poo
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Jun 23, 2020 19:23
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Sure, but it seems weird for there to be a brilliantly carved statue covered in a crappy paint job.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:24
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:What we need to do is find some professional warhammer miniature painters and then get the to go to town on some full size legionnaires and dying gauls and poo poo Given how good Roman paintings often are compared to modern reconstructions, I honestly think this would be a good idea and give a much better idea of what the painted statues looked like.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:26
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