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The baby demands blood and commands psychic loyalty. In a few weeks they're going to find her in a woodshed looming over a dead vagrant and remark about the perfection of the kill.
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Jun 17, 2020 20:42
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The lead up in this chapter almost has a "Its a Good Life" quality to it and then Meyers has to ruin it as usual.
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Jun 17, 2020 21:37
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Dienes posted:The lead up in this chapter almost has a "Its a Good Life" quality to it and then Meyers has to ruin it as usual. It’s absolutely uncanny how she writes a horror novel without realizing it.
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Jun 17, 2020 21:54
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chitoryu12 posted:It’s absolutely uncanny how she writes a horror novel without realizing it. Sometimes I wonder if she set out to write a horror novel, would she end up making a compelling romance?
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Jun 17, 2020 22:49
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quote:Emmett and Jasper were right in front of me, shoulder to shoulder, hands ready. Edward gripped me from behind, fingers tight again on the tops of my arms. Even Carlisle and Esme moved to get Emmett’s and Jasper’s flanks, while Rosalie backed to the door, her arms clutching at Renesmee. Jacob moved, too, keeping his protective stance in front of them. Did they pre-plan this? quote:Alice was the only one who held her place. Oh, right. No conflict. All the worry about Bella having to learn to be around her friends and daughter? Nah, never mattered. quote:“I’m okay,” I promised, patting Edward’s hand on my arm. Then I hesitated and added, “Keep close, though, just in case.” She wants this to go faster! quote:“Jazz, Em, let us through. Bella’s got this.” Emmett is just wondering how cool the kills were. quote:Alice’s expression told me that she was not fooled. Her narrowed eyes, focused with burning intensity on my borrowed shirt, seemed more worried about what I’d done to my dress than anything else. Which she could not have foreseen, right? quote:“Edward!” Carlisle chastened. “How could you be so irresponsible?” It's probably for the better that they waited until a Mary Sue appeared before adding a new Cullen... quote:“Edward,” I mumbled, embarrassed by the way they stared at me. It was like they were trying to see a brighter red in my eyes. Again, why did you write a clairvoyant into your plot, specifically say that she can see Bella even more clearly now that she's a vampire, and then have her still not know anything important? quote:“I wasn’t making a joke. I was explaining to Jasper why I know Bella can handle this. It’s not my fault everyone jumped to conclusions.” What we all want is a recap of what we just saw while people gasp in amazement over it, right? Here we go! quote:Edward leaned toward him, animated. “She heard me behind her and reacted defensively. As soon as my pursuit broke into her concentration, she snapped right out of it. I’ve never seen anything to equal her. She realized at once what was happening, and then… she held her breath and ran away.” So...it's normal for vampires to instinctively try to kill each other all the time? And we're supposed to treat joining their family as a good thing? quote:I glared at him frostily. “I would never.” This legitimately feels like we've gone backwards. How much of Forever Dawn is left virtually unedited in this book? She wrote it before the first book even got picked up for publishing, so her writing style would have likely been completely unimproved (and the deleted chapters of Twilight suggest she was somehow even worse when she first started). These characters feel almost like exaggerated cardboard cutouts of themselves, with only their basic personalities like "Emmett loves fighting" and "Esme is the ultimate mom" and "Jasper is weird and twitchy and stares too much." quote:I wasn’t paying so much attention, now that Edward was past the punch line of his joke. I was staring at the gorgeous child by the door, who was still staring at me. Her little dimpled hands reached out toward me like she knew exactly who I was. Automatically, my hand lifted to mimic hers. I went back through my posts and the only time Jasper has ever been called "Jazz" was by Edward in an earlier chapter. This makes me think it could be another Forever Dawn leftover that she didn't stick with for the main sequels. quote:Their eyes met for a short second, and then Jasper nodded. He moved out of my way, but put one hand on my shoulder and moved with me as I walked slowly forward. This is so goddamn creepy. quote:It seemed like everyone had a hand on her, patting and soothing. So goddamn creepy quote:Renesmee went to Jacob willingly enough, pushing her tiny hand against his cheek and then squirming around to stretch toward me again. How would that even look? Trembling with anxiety but totally serene? quote:“Jake—I’m fine,” I told him. It made me panicky to see Renesmee in his shaking hands, but I worked to keep myself in control. You just used "panicky" twice in two sentences. quote:Renesmee whimpered eagerly and stretched, her little hands grasping into fists again and again. One degree is the difference between "okay" and "open flame"? Wait, how is she this hot? She's half-vampire. Shouldn't she be like, room temperature? quote:Renesmee seemed oblivious to the coolness of my skin, or at least very used to it. Of course, Renesmee also has to have her own super special powers! quote:Renesmee’s hand dropped from my cheek. She smiled wider, dimpling again. "Dear lord in Heaven, kill it!" quote:“What… was… that?” I managed to choke out. Is this Meyer wishing she could have finally known what you drat babies are screaming about God I wish I never got married this young quote:“What was it?” Jacob asked. Feel like having actual detailed speculation on the universe? Nah, Bella ain't got time for that poo poo! quote:I knew they were speculating away, but I didn’t care. I was staring at the most beautiful face in the world. She was hot in my arms, reminding me of the moment when the blackness had almost won, when there was nothing in the world left to hold on to. Nothing strong enough to pull me through the crushing darkness. The moment when I’d thought of Renesmee and found something I would never let go of. Maybe "my little nudger" isn't the best nickname when her "nudging" was more like "Bruce Lee kicking you in the pelvis." quote:“She’s fine,” Alice murmured, probably to Jasper. I could feel them hovering, not trusting me. Wait, back up. Rosalie was handing Renesmee over to Jacob and reassuring him just two pages ago! Now you're saying nothing has changed? Are you not even loving proofreading? quote:I glared at Jacob’s anxious half-angry expression. His eyes were locked on Renesmee’s face. With everyone pressed together, he had to be touching at least six different vampires at the moment, and it didn’t even seem to bug him. The only reaction anyone should have to this! quote:Jasper’s teeth came together and Edward’s arms wrapped around my chest like constricting boas. Jacob had Renesmee out of my arms in the same second, and I did not try to hold on to her. Because I felt it coming—the snap that they’d all been waiting for. The hunting crouch she has instinctively perfected in a few hours. quote:“You didn’t,” I snarled at him. Oh that is the worst excuse for being a child predator. quote:“You stupid mutt! How could you? My baby!” Holy poo poo. quote:“Pay up,” I heard Emmett say behind me. A small part of my brain wondered who had bet against this outcome. I didn’t waste much attention on it. I was too furious. It was definitely Alice. Wait, aren't all of you billionaires? What did you bet? quote:“How dare you imprint on my baby? Have you lost your mind?” You'd think after getting this far into writing the chapter, you would realize "Maybe I have made a mistake with my choices." quote:“Stop her, Edward,” Esme murmured. “She’ll be unhappy if she hurts him.” Remember how an entire chapter was used to justify child grooming earlier? Now we have Bella having the only reasonable reaction to imprinting on a newborn, and we're going to now have to deal with Meyer telling us that she's actually wrong and this is good. quote:“You know I don’t think of her that way! Do you think Edward would have let me live this long if I did? All I want is for her to be safe and happy—is that so bad? So different from what you want?” He was shouting right back at me. Oh he was betting with Carlisle. This is written like its own fanfic by a teenager. quote:“You’re going to stay away from her,” I hissed up at Jacob. So there's your canon explanation for why Jacob was so obsessed with Bella to the point of sexual assault, and Bella was incapable of not calling him her "best friend" despite everything he did. Because his body was attempting to imprint on her ovary. I cannot even begin to describe how insane it is that a woman actually thought this was a great idea for her mass market teen romance novel and published it. Now you may be asking: "What about the sperm?" Apparently that doesn't count, but realistically that should have been the other half of Renesmee (since the egg obviously isn't the entire child). So at the wedding, Jacob should have been maddeningly in love with Edward. quote:“Run away while you still can,” I threatened. https://twitter.com/Twilight/status/1196511146615824385
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Jun 18, 2020 15:55
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Finally, the animatronic! Yay! The whole imprinting reveal is written like Meyer thought this was comedy. Oh ho ho, now this explains all that confusion! Isn’t that just something? Ha ha, new mommy Bella is just soooooooo mad, just like every new mom! How silly women are, wanting to protect their newborn daughters from older men who will want to marry them someday! 
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Jun 18, 2020 17:26
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"It's okay, she likes me too!"
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Jun 18, 2020 18:21
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Someone needs to write "An Imprintee's Tale" with Emily struggling to raise her daughter in secret, so an abusive psycho won't imprint on a toddler.
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Jun 18, 2020 18:25
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This continues to elevate itself to new lows.
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Jun 18, 2020 18:37
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Also Bella saying that her screeching still sounds like music (because she's just too perfect for even her sounds of anger and animalistic rage to not sound attractive) makes me think of something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_k3Buaj2tA
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Jun 18, 2020 18:50
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Dienes posted:Someone needs to write "An Imprintee's Tale" with Emily struggling to raise her daughter in secret, so an abusive psycho won't imprint on a toddler. A protagonist that severs all ties from their home community to stay one step ahead of a creature tailor-made to hunt her down is so much more compelling it hurts to think about.
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Jun 18, 2020 21:01
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https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1255960131491299328
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Jun 19, 2020 00:26
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I'm not sure how I'd react if Renesmee grows into edgy teen mode in the next few weeks and the book ends with her throwing a tantrum, hopping on Wolf-Jacob's back, and running away from home.
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Jun 19, 2020 05:03
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Grammarchist posted:I'm not sure how I'd react if Renesmee grows into edgy teen mode in the next few weeks and the book ends with her throwing a tantrum, hopping on Wolf-Jacob's back, and running away from home. Out of all the things you said, one of those is correct. I won't tell you which.
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Jun 19, 2020 05:07
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chitoryu12 posted:Unfortunately, there's just no way to get the required look of "A 3-month-old baby with adult intelligence and emotions" without resorting to some serious Uncanny Valley CGI. Bella declining to murder Jacob the moment she learned abt the imprinting with her coven around for backup would have been a better way to show her self-control than the hiker bullshit, except that Meyer immediately tells us to pat herself on the back. I really hope Bella at least gets a decent swing at Jacob before someone stops her. A thought: I really wonder how those first few days went for the rest of the family to be so blase about Jacob. I would expect Rosalie to at least be bitchier about it. Malah fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jun 19, 2020 |
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Jun 19, 2020 18:39
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I am impressed that Meyer manages to write characters unexpectedly doing something morally upstanding and then two pages later has someone tell them 'ah but have you considered that TRUE LOVE might be involved?' and suddenly they're totally on board with killing everyone in Forks or paedophilia.
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Jun 19, 2020 20:45
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gently caress TRUE LOVE. Get his rear end, Bella!
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Jun 20, 2020 02:49
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Chapter 23: Memoriesquote:"I'm so sorry, Seth. I should have been closer." Honestly, I think it would count as defense of the innocent at that point. quote:So shouldn’t I have been the one apologizing? I tried again. Nobody in this book feels like a human. I mean I know they're not, but... quote:I tried to erase the anger from my system entirely, but it was hard, knowing that Jacob was outside with Renesmee right now. Keeping her safe from me, the crazed newborn. Even when she actually hurts people, nobody can do anything but fawn over Bella. The only reason I'm not rolling my eyes more is that I find absolutely nothing wrong with reacting in the way she did to "Surprise, I'm dating your newborn!" quote:Seth seemed to feel no aversion to having me sit beside him on the sofa as Carlisle treated him. “I’ll be back to normal in half an hour,” he continued, still patting my knee as if oblivious to the cold, hard texture of it. “Anyone would have done the same, what with Jake and Ness—” He broke off mid-word and changed the subject quickly. “I mean, at least you didn’t bite me or anything. That would’ve sucked.” This is definitely one of the most obvious passages where Meyer was just making poo poo up as she went. I don't think she ever thought about what vampire venom would do to a werewolf until this very moment and just wrote that in to cover any questions. The Illustrated Guide provides more detail on this. It's not actually poisonous in the sense of "Will kill Seth." It just slows their healing process so they have to heal from any injuries sustained like a normal human. quote:“I’m a bad person.” Give me a loving break! Learn to write new things! Have character development! Anything that isn't what we've already done! quote:“Of course you aren’t. I should have—,” Edward started. Okay, but isn't Renesmee supposed to have the mental acuity of an adult? So she's biting the poo poo out of Jacob knowing that she's hurting him. This kid is a monster! quote:I stared at him, shocked, and also feeling guilty, because I had to admit that this pleased me a teensy bit in a petulant way. Feigning it for no good reason to add pointless drama, yes. Also, how would she know if Renesmee was venomous or not? She passed out and Edward went Pulp Fiction on her with the syringe within seconds of that happening. quote:“Well, Seth,” Carlisle said, straightening up and stepping away from us. “I think that’s as much as I can do. Try to not move for, oh, a few hours, I guess.” Carlisle chuckled. “I wish treating humans were this instantaneously gratifying.” He rested his hand for a moment on Seth’s black hair. “Stay still,” he ordered, and then he disappeared upstairs. I heard his office door close, and I wondered if they’d already removed the evidence of my time there. Much like me trying to read this. quote:I frowned at his peaceful face for another minute. Like Jacob, Seth seemed to have the gift of falling asleep at will. Knowing I wouldn’t be able to apologize again for a while, I got up; the motion didn’t jostle the couch in the slightest. Everything physical was so easy. But the rest… That's because you're insane, Bella. quote:Other than their squabbling, Seth’s slow breathing, and Leah’s annoyed panting, it was very quiet. Emmett, Alice, and Esme were hunting. Jasper had stayed behind to watch me. He stood unobtrusively behind the newel post now, trying not to be obnoxious about it. Unobtrusively hiding behind furniture, staring Bella dead in the eye at all times. quote:I took advantage of the calm to think of all the things Edward and Seth had told me while Carlisle splinted Seth’s arm. I’d missed a whole lot while I was burning, and this was the first real chance to catch up. If you thought Meyer couldn't get lazier about her writing, boy do I have news for you! She just instantly resolved everything off-screen in a few paragraphs with more rules and history that she clearly pulled out of her rear end on the spot. None of the conflict revolving around dueling Alphas will ever matter again! quote:And Sam couldn’t get mad about my transformation, either, because Jacob—speaking as the rightful Alpha—had allowed it. It rankled to realize over and over again how much I owed Jacob when I just wanted to be mad at him. But...Sam was the one who was fine with it! It was Jacob who broke from the pack to drive to the Cullen house and kill everyone in retaliation! Am I having a stroke? Did Meyer change stuff in her drafts and not keep it straight, or did she just not remember her prior writing? quote:I deliberately redirected my thoughts in order to control my emotions. I considered another interesting phenomenon; though the silence between the separate packs continued, Jacob and Sam had discovered that Alphas could speak to each other while in their wolf form. It wasn’t the same as before; they couldn’t hear every thought the way they had prior to the split. It was more like speaking aloud, Seth had said. Sam could only hear the thoughts Jacob wanted to share, and vice versa. They found they could communicate over distance, too, now that they were talking to each other again. This book is starting to feel like she had to rush to hit a deadline. This is another thing that you see in bad fanfics and other fiction written by young amateurs, where they realize they've made things harder because of their previous decisions that they can't or don't want to change (especially in stories that are published one chapter at a time online) and just desperately throw in radical new information or powers that exist only to fill in the gaps. It's obvious that Meyer never thought about any of the implications of separate packs losing their psychic link when she wrote it, and then realized that it would make any future coordination of the packs in the plot much more difficult. So suddenly they just discover that there's already rules for separate packs and Alphas that conveniently fix all of that! This is the kind of writing that makes it painfully apparent that Meyer is a first-time writer rather than someone who really had a passion for it. Her skills seriously had not progressed beyond that of the average 14-year-old Harry Potter fanfic writer by the time she was a millionaire. Professional authors are normally people who have likely been writing in some form for years by the time they're first published; you may recall from my other threads that while Ian Fleming's first book was Casino Royale, he had actually been writing fiction since a young age in addition to becoming a journalist and newspaper columnist. He had an established base of decades of writing experience, which is why his first published novel came out so well despite being written off the top of his head while drunk. To my knowledge, Meyer had written little or nothing that wasn't school assignments by the time she wrote Twilight. This actually goes to show where her target audience comes from, in fact. It's a book that has its greatest appeal to young girls who already read free online stories of this caliber and style, and likely begin writing similar works themselves. To a mature adult, the books are amateurish at best and filled with some really gross and potentially harmful-to-minors poo poo at worst. But to a girl with a Myspace page and Fanfiction.net account in 2005, it gives hope that she too can become a successful published author if Stephenie Meyer can. They don't realize that her success was basically an accident from a publishing house staffer forgetting to throw her draft out without reading it. quote:Once Sam had understood how absolutely everything had changed, he’d come back with Jacob to talk to Carlisle. They’d spoken in human form (Edward had refused to leave my side to translate), and the treaty had been renewed. The friendly feeling of the relationship, however, might never be the same. Since when were they ever "friendly"? They were basically using werewolf racial slurs against them! Also, this fully pushes the accidental colonialism narrative to its conclusion. The native black sheep first begins to sympathize with the white settlers despite the old tribal laws and treaties, he moves to their land but sleeps outside and acts more like an animal than a civilized man, he is eventually given their clothes and allowed a bed, and finally he falls in love and fully transitions to the point where he no longer even lives on tribal land. He has "become civilized" even though he will never truly be one of them. And now with the new rules regarding Renesmee, the natives are basically subservient to them because they can no longer restart the conflict even if they wish! quote:One big worry down. I thought she was already good at lying!  But seriously, how has Charlie continued to do nothing else? He's just been sitting at home calling the Cullens, calling the fake CDC number instead of Googling it to make sure he has the right one, and letting them do whatever. Where's the "overprotective" dad? The answer is "He doesn't matter to Meyer right now, so he's kept out of the plot until needed." quote:It didn’t seem right to me. But putting Charlie or Renée in danger of the Volturi’s obsession with secrecy was clearly out of the question. Let's make sure that's clear: Bella's idea is to basically use a loophole to break the Volturi's rules (ones that they are pretty notorious about following exactly to the letter and using murder as their first resort) and hope she can let her dad live on a technicality. quote:My eyes, in particular, were much too frightening right now. How long before my self-control and my eye color were ready for Charlie? Yes, that's what we want. Continued praising of the exact same kind for chapter after chapter. Just lavishing our protagonist with how awesome and perfect she is forever. Definitely a great idea for your book. quote:While he was speaking, the room became very calm. Seth’s breathing slipped into a low snore. I felt more peaceful, but I didn’t forget my anxieties. "I have a sneaking suspicion you're planning something really dumb instead." quote:I brooded for a moment. “I’m going to miss him so much. I’ll miss everyone here.” "I'd also never factored in weird werewolf pedo biology that the author didn't even think up until then." quote:I remembered a little later—one of the many times that I’d told Jacob goodbye—wondering aloud who he would end up with, who would make his life right after what I’d done to it. I had said something about how whoever she was, she wouldn’t be good enough for him. Or, as it turns out, old enough. quote:I snorted, and Edward raised one eyebrow questioningly. I just shook my head at him.
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Jun 22, 2020 16:41
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Well I guess they could just bring Jacob with them to Atlanta and switch from the uncomfortable colonialism subtext to an uncomfortable slavery subtext.
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Jun 22, 2020 17:35
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Jacob getting routinely mauled by a blood-hungry baby is the weirdest thing to just laugh off after all that foreshadowing about evil vampire children. That bit earlier about imprinting being associated with seeking mates that would produce strong offspring leads me to wonder if Meyer is angling for yet another Demon Baby with vampire AND werewolf traits, but I'd like the series to end long before that comes up.
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Jun 22, 2020 20:48
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Imprinting always seemed horrifying on the part of the imprinter, too. The imprintee has to fear the physical attacks and the imprinter loses control over their own mind and emotions. The bit where KJacob describes all his attachments to other people being cut off to redirect to reneesme is genuinely upsetting. I get that the abuse subtext is way more set up to make imprintees the victim but there's horror for everyone, and unlike being able to justifiably blame, say, Sam for wolfsploding next to Emily, there's nobody at fault for that loss of self other than eugenic magic. Like, werewolves regenerate so they can't even blind themselves to stop it. Blindfolds, maybe, but would sound and smell still do it? A story about people trying to live in isolation to avoid imprinting could be fascinating.
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Jun 22, 2020 21:22
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Grammarchist posted:Jacob getting routinely mauled by a blood-hungry baby is the weirdest thing to just laugh off after all that foreshadowing about evil vampire children. That bit earlier about imprinting being associated with seeking mates that would produce strong offspring leads me to wonder if Meyer is angling for yet another Demon Baby with vampire AND werewolf traits, but I'd like the series to end long before that comes up. It's almost like Meyer wrote a cute little thing to try and add some humour to the situation but forgot what this would actually mean for the characters she's describing and actually it's horrifying.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:24
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MrNemo posted:It's almost like Meyer wrote a cute little thing to try and add some humour to the situation but forgot what this would actually mean for the characters she's describing and actually it's horrifying. This book is pretty all over the place with continuity. One infamous moment I didn't mention is the breakfast in chapter 3, where Charlie's pancakes suddenly turn into cereal between paragraphs, but in general you can tell this book is a reworking of a virtually complete Forever Dawn draft to try and shove it into the new canon created by the sequels. It breaks suspension of disbelief even more than the previous books, the writing manages to be the most amateurish, and the way the plot progresses is bonkers.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh3Fd2I1Jgs So this is a great interview (as all Hot Ones interviews are) and it's one of the extremely few places to see Kristen Stewart relax and be herself. But I've noticed something in the "Twilight Renaissance" memes and fan posts that I've been looking through. Post-vampire Bella is often portrayed by fans as basically being a Chaos Twin with Emmett and/or Alice, full of energy and mischief as they spend all day pulling pranks and going ham on everyone with their powers. Obviously this is extremely far from the on-page Bella, a dull quasi-sociopath who manipulates everyone around her for her own benefit and has nothing but a handful of one-liners to give her a sense of spunk. Watching this video, it seems like fans in the modern resurgence have been applying Kristen Stewart's own real life personality onto Bella to try and refine (and in some ways redefine) her character. How she behaves here exactly matches a lot of the posts I've been seeing.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:05
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chitoryu12 posted:
With regards to imprinting, Jacob's hatred of Renesmee during Bella's pregnancy was really weird, if the reason he was so obsessed with Bella was because he was destined to imprint on her daughter. He may have been psychically drawn to her, but he was still ready to kill her before they made eye contact and the mind control fully kicked in. Maybe he really was madly in love with Edward at the wedding and mistook it for loathing.
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Jun 23, 2020 13:20
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Shwoo posted:I think it was that Jacob heard Bella was back and got all murdery because he assumed she was already a vampire, while Sam said it was Bella's decision and they wouldn't attack the Cullens over it, and then Jacob found out she was still human and changed his mind about killing her, but he told the others about the demon baby and Sam decided it had to die? And that's when Jacob used his main character powers to leave the pack and make his own. Jacob took Bella turning into a vampire as a hard breaking of the treaty deserving of an immediate death sentence for the Cullens, while Sam softened his stance on the treaty because she was willingly accepting the transformation. Then Edward tells Jacob that she's actually pregnant with a monster and begs him to turn him into a cuckold to convince her to get a vampire abortion, which causes Sam to immediately flip out and go to kill the Cullens instead. And now Bella is insisting that it was Sam who was mad about the vampire transformation (rather than a horrible hybrid pregnancy) and that Jacob had to intervene to make it okay again. I honestly can't believe this is the plot I just summarized but here we are. chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2020 13:49
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I wonder if Meyer would have better success writing from omniscient instead of limited third person, and if her insistence on writing the latter contributed to the confusing inconsistencies on which character is mad about who/what at X point in the story.
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Jun 23, 2020 14:04
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Someone pointed out that Bella could be replaced by a camera that's dragged everywhere, and usually that's a sign that your story shouldn't be in first person. First person is hard to write well, since you have an unreliable narrator who's filtering the events through their own personality. Newbie writers like first person because it's easy to write out what you'd do in a situation, but that makes for a poo poo main character. Unless you're Somerset Maugham or something, having you be the main character in your own fictional story is boring as hell.
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Jun 23, 2020 14:46
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:I wonder if Meyer would have better success writing from omniscient instead of limited third person, and if her insistence on writing the latter contributed to the confusing inconsistencies on which character is mad about who/what at X point in the story. I think the biggest issue that amateur writers have with first-person narratives (beyond any quibbles about figuring out how to properly express emotion) is planning. A narrator who isn't omniscient is obviously not going to be able to utilize the knowledge and perspectives of others, but for an interesting story you need to get that somewhere. You also need to give your narrator major agency in the story if you're stuck in their head for the entire thing. This requires actual plans and serious thinking about what everyone is going to do and where the story is going to go, so you can ensure that the narrator can give and receive important information organically, and you can work around their flaws or disadvantages to ensure that they have agency even if they're outclassed in raw strength by the rest of the cast. If people are going to have their own hidden motivations or plans, you need to have basically an entire third-person book in the back of your mind as you write to keep everyone straight and let hints be dropped for the reader that aren't obvious foreshadowing or obvious red herrings. What we've got here is basically an urban fantasy/horror story with an ensemble cast, set almost entirely from the perspective of the least interesting and important character because that character is the author's self-insert and she's writing a personal fantasy/fetish rather than trying to seriously make an interesting story. She can't envision any way to give Bella agency as a human in this story of vampires and werewolves except by making her into one of them, giving her literal strength instead of writing a strong character. When the story actually calls for a conflict that she can't physically participate in, she doesn't even try to let her make decisions or take actions that seriously affect the outcome of what's going on, or even has her make things worse. Think back to every climax of the past books and how things would have gone if Bella just didn't do the things she did. In Twilight, she could have safely stayed with the Cullens instead of running off to the dance studio or taken at least one of them with her as backup (considering that their superhuman senses and speed, Alice's clairvoyance, and Edward's mind reading should make it trivial for them to ambush James) and the outcome would have been the same except for her having fewer injuries. In New Moon, Edward outright states that he was on the verge of coming back and apologizing to Bella before her quasi-suicidal cliff dive and all of the other characters suddenly making the worst decision at every step set the events with the Volturi in motion. In Eclipse, Bella is basically carted around as a smelly MacGuffin and her one attempt at "sacrifice" turns out to be worthless and just makes the fight slightly more difficult for Edward and Seth. So really, the only thing differentiating Bella from the "Sexy Lamp" kind of useless female character is that we'd need to have Edward and Jacob be guys with lamp fetishes. The only times Bella seriously has agency for most of the series and makes decisions that have some kind of impact, they're decisions that ultimately change little or are actively harmful to the people on her side! Most of the "choice" Meyer claims her very feminist protagonist gets is the choice to get her traditional married family lifestyle for eternity. It would be like setting all of the Harry Potter books from the perspective of, like, Lavender Brown. Someone who occasionally pops in when needed to comment on stuff, has a romance with a main character, who doesn't even show up in the main plot or any battles until the very end of the series (and as a generic victim rather than a fighter). All of the other characters would be off having their adventures and the books would just be about her schoolwork and teen romances while hearing about what crazy poo poo happened off-screen.
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Jun 23, 2020 15:21
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hyperhazard posted:Someone pointed out that Bella could be replaced by a camera that's dragged everywhere, and usually that's a sign that your story shouldn't be in first person. First person is hard to write well, since you have an unreliable narrator who's filtering the events through their own personality. Newbie writers like first person because it's easy to write out what you'd do in a situation, but that makes for a poo poo main character. Unless you're Somerset Maugham or something, having you be the main character in your own fictional story is boring as hell. This is also one of the clear signs of Meyer being a first-time writer, with mistakes and issues that are normally only seen in amateur fiction rather than bestselling series. She wants all of the benefits of a third-person narrative and likely has a sort of "movie" of the book in her head as she writes, but has created a character with so little agency and purpose outside of her romance that she has no plausible way to actually get all of that into the narrative. So we get multiple scenes where Bella is pretending to be asleep or unconscious just so she can eavesdrop on what would otherwise be a scene of other characters talking about her (including one where Bella goes "Oh I think I was just dreaming, there's no way they'd be having this conversation!" so she has an excuse to ignore what they said) and a scene where she gets dragged out to the vampire and werewolf training sessions to watch because otherwise we'd never see any of the Cullens actually display their supposed fighting prowess. Going back to my Handbook for Mortals thread, I can more clearly see the influence of Twilight on Lani Sarem's writing (as she's an avowed Twilight fan who got her start by creeping on Jackson Rathbone to the point where she screwed up his career with his band by managing them) as well as the "14-year-old on Fanfiction.net" writing problems. In this case, I know that Lani "had a movie in her head" because she literally took a screenplay and adapted it as straight as possible into a novel. The scenes that aren't from Zade's first-person perspective are still present in italics, with the novel just changing to third-person. At one point the author self-insert spends multiple chapters in a coma and she immediately invents a memory pulling power to excuse why most of the climax is now in third-person while ostensibly being narrated by her! Oh, speaking of Lani, I mentioned in the thread that she had partnered with GeekNation for her scam. That scam must have failed real hard, because they're shut down and their Facebook hasn't posted since 2018! chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 15:36
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Had Meyer been to Italy, or even got into any misadventures at all before being shoehorned into Mormon family life? It doesn't seem like she has that much in the way of life experiences to draw from, apart from things she heard about through osmosis or whatever books she herself has read.
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Jun 23, 2020 18:39
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Grammarchist posted:Had Meyer been to Italy, or even got into any misadventures at all before being shoehorned into Mormon family life? It doesn't seem like she has that much in the way of life experiences to draw from, apart from things she heard about through osmosis or whatever books she herself has read. So when Meyer wrote the Volturi, they weren't the Volturi. Like I said, nothing in the original Twilight existed except what was on the page. The three ancient sewer vampires that Carlisle spent some time in the Renaissance with were just that: ancient sewer vampires Carlisle spent some time in the Renaissance with. When she began writing a sequel, she decided to expand them into what were ostensibly the overarching villains of the piece. She was originally going to place them in the fictional city of Volturin in Tuscany, only to find the real city of Volterra in the same region while checking a map.
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Jun 23, 2020 20:52
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quote:The sound of movement on the front porch interrupted my thoughts. I heard them get up, and then they were through the door. At exactly the same time, Carlisle came down the stairs with his hands full of odd things—a measuring tape, a scale. Jasper darted to my side. As if there was some signal I’d missed, even Leah sat down outside and stared through the window with an expression like she was expecting something that was both familiar and also totally uninteresting. The publication of a new Twilight book? quote:“Must be six,” Edward said. I can't believe that Bella being a newborn really makes her that worse at tantrums after all the ones she threw as a human. It feels more like having vampire powers just gives her all the ability to do violence that she wished to do earlier in the series when she got mad. quote:“Oh. You do this every day?” Bella Swan: smart enough to consider all possible answers to a question in 1/64th of a second, can't figure out why they'd be regularly measuring a child who's visibly aging too fast. quote:I couldn’t take my eyes off Renesmee to check his expression. "She's beautiful, so she can't be bad!" quote:The difference between the child I’d given birth to and the one I’d met again an hour ago would have been obvious to anyone. The difference between Renesmee an hour ago and Renesmee now was subtler. Human eyes never would have detected it. But it was there. Edward staring at Bella 24/7 stroking her hair, Jasper hiding behind furniture staring at Bella, Jacob brooding in the corner furrowing his brow at his child bride. quote:She had matured from a single cell to a normal-sized baby in the course of a few weeks. She looked well on her way to being a toddler just days after her birth. If this rate of growth held… And yet just a few seconds ago you had trouble remembering why people measure a child's height. quote:“What do we do?” I whispered, horrified. This is yet another "dead herring." They're currently afraid that Renesmee, if her growth remains steady, will have a life span of only a few years....but her growth hasn't remained steady. She grew from an embryo to a newborn with advanced intelligence in just 1 month, and now she's already growing at a radically slower pace. With how inhuman she is, there's no reason for them to make assumptions yet. quote:“You know I’ll do my best,” Carlisle assured him. Oh gently caress off. quote:Renesmee seemed irritated, too. She started to squirm and then reached her hand imperiously toward Rosalie. Rosalie leaned forward so that Renesmee could touch her face. After a second, Rose sighed. That is also not true! Bella was pretty clear beforehand that Renesmee still smells like food and just has an undercurrent of vampire that makes resisting her easy. I can resist the taste of a saison that combines flowery and bitter flavors until it's soapy (looking at you, Unibroue), but that doesn't mean it won't taste like beer. quote:Jacob bit his lip but made no move to stop Rosalie as she offered Renesmee to me. Jasper and Edward hovered but allowed it. I could see how tense Rose was, and I wondered how the room felt to Jasper right now. Or was he focusing so hard on me that he couldn’t feel the others? The Enigma of Amigara Swan! quote:Though I was prepared, it still made me gasp to see the memory like a vision in my head. So bright and colorful but also completely transparent. How the gently caress does that make you feel less guilty? quote:Edward chuckled, watching Renesmee’s thoughts with me. Black comedies wish they could turn around that fast between sentences. quote:Renesmee smiled her brilliant smile, and her memory eyes did not leave Jacob through all the following mess. I tasted a new flavor to the memory—not exactly protective, more possessive—as she watched Jacob. I got the distinct impression that she was glad Seth had put himself in front of my spring. She didn’t want Jacob hurt. He was hers. How is this not a villain origin story? This is a level above Quil and his literal toddler bride. Renesmee is fully aware of who her future husband is and what's going on, and she's gleeful that he's facing potentially lethal assault and that other people are leaping in front of the barely metaphorical bullet for him. Renesmee is a sociopath that the entire cast is fawning over because she's just too beautiful to be evil. Somehow a baby is committing abuse of her boyfriend. Meyer's seeming unawareness of this, and her later attempts to defend what she wrote, paint her as utterly divorced from reality. quote:“Oh, wonderful,” I groaned. “Perfect.” All three of you: never speak again. quote:Renesmee patted my face impatiently, demanding my attention. Another memory: Rosalie pulling a brush gently through each of her curls. It felt nice. Or us! quote:“It looks like she’s going to give you a rundown of everything you missed,” Edward commented in my ear. Oh God, she's the author! quote:My nose wrinkled as she dumped the next one on me. The smell coming from a strange metal cup—hard enough not to be bitten through easily—sent a flash burn through my throat. Ouch. So she's so twitchy that she needs second-by-second monitoring and could spring and attempt to decapitate someone at any time, but she doesn't even react when someone restrains her? quote:“What did I do?” Great. Another moment that's useless except for making Bella seem even more awesome. quote:The binding hands disappeared. I reached out for Renesmee as soon as I was free. Edward handed her to me without hesitation. ...why? quote:Renesmee touched my neck, repeating the scene of departure right back, like an instant replay. I could feel the question in her thought, an echo of mine. His home planet needed him, I guess. quote:“He’ll be back,” Edward said, whether to me or Renesmee, I wasn’t sure. “He just needs a moment alone to readjust his perspective on life.” There was a grin threatening at the corners of his mouth. I should point out that we've never once seen Jasper actually struggle with vampirism outside of the paper cut incident in New Moon. Despite supposedly being so uncontrollable that a simple paper cut in the same room can drive him into a frenzy, and vampires being able to smell blood from miles away, he's managed to last at least a year in the time we've been in the book without having to do anything but stand a little further away from Bella for a few days. Meyer has basically forgotten to write in any of her desired characterization so she's just telling us what we're supposed to believe! Edward is also making some pretty bad implications about other vampires. If Bella being able to avoid newborn madness is just about "the right attitude", then we can only assume that Bella Swan is literally the only vampire other than Carlisle to actually think that killing people is wrong! And of course, Jasper has been a vampire for almost 150 years so a newborn having control just means he's a crazy murderer! But wouldn't this also immediately destroy any idea of Bella being super special and perfect if it's just her attitude? quote:“But that’s unfair,” Carlisle said. “Everyone is different; everyone has their own challenges. Perhaps what Bella is doing goes beyond the natural. Maybe this is her gift, so to speak.” Ah, never mind. Carlisle is just going to outright tell us that she's super special. quote:I froze with surprise. Renesmee felt the change, and touched me. She remembered the last second of time and wondered why. Of course not! That might make her too much of a Mary Sue! quote:And then I realized what that might mean, if my “superpower” was no more than exceptional self-control. "What if the author just realized it would be too hard to write flaws, so she declared that all of the drama was over and everyone lived happily ever after?" quote:I could see Charlie. Again, there's a reason the Cullens want you to just fake your death. Why are we still acting otherwise? quote:I was chicken enough to wait for a year while my eyes cooled. And here I’d thought I would be so fearless when I was indestructible. It's not being "chicken" to not reveal to your dad that you're a vampire! quote:“Have you ever seen an equivalent to self-control as a talent?” Edward asked Carlisle. “Do you really think that’s a gift, or just a product of all her preparation?” Oh look, more characters that have never existed until now! I'm sure they'll matter! quote:“Yes, Siobhan thinks the same. But she has this way of deciding her goals and then almost… willing them into reality. She considers it good planning, but I’ve always wondered if it was something more. When she included Maggie, for instance. Liam was very territorial, but Siobhan wanted it to work out, and so it did.” It's a great sign when people are falling asleep during your characters' exposition. quote:I listened, but my attention was divided. Renesmee was still telling me about her day. I held her by the window wall, my arms rocking her automatically as we stared into each other’s eyes. We actually got a scene about this in the movie, which is way more interesting than any of this poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lA1Z0vPkp4 quote:I rolled my weight back to my left leg. It felt kind of silly. I'm sure we won't spend an entire hour doing this, right? quote:After almost an hour—the others were still deeply absorbed in their discussion, Seth and Jacob snoring in harmony on the couch—Renesmee’s memory stories began to slow. They got slightly blurry around the edges and drifted out of focus before they came to their conclusions. I was about to interrupt Edward in a panic—was there something wrong with her?—when her eyelids fluttered and closed. She yawned, her plump pink lips stretching into a round O, and her eyes never reopened. Bella, our super smart vampire, has now forgotten that babies sleep. quote:Her hand fell away from my face as she drifted to sleep—the backs of her eyelids were the pale lavender color of thin clouds before the sunrise. Careful not to disturb her, I lifted that hand back to my skin and held it there curiously. At first there was nothing, and then, after a few minutes, a flickering of colors like a handful of butterflies were scattering from her thoughts. Wait, how did she begin dreaming immediately upon falling asleep? quote:For the first time, I understood how Edward had been able to watch me sleep night after boring night, just to hear me talk in my sleep. I could watch Renesmee dream forever. Watching a baby dream is exactly the same as seeing a girl drool all over herself and mutter about her fantasies, yes. quote:The change in Edward’s tone caught my attention when he said, “Finally,” and turned to gaze out the window. It was deep, purply night outside, but I could see just as far as before. Nothing was hidden in the darkness; everything had just changed colors. Society is the only reason Emmett doesn't Kool-Aid Man through the wall to enter every room. quote:The huge grin stretching Alice’s face was familiar in a dim, odd way. Everyone was suddenly smiling at me—Esme sweet, Emmett excited, Rosalie a little superior, Carlisle indulgent, and Edward expectant. "You peon." quote:Her grin turned smug. “We’re not celebrating your vampire birthday. Yet. It’s September thirteenth, Bella. Happy nineteenth birthday!”
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Jun 24, 2020 16:07
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The accelerated baby aging is gonna be so Jacob and Reneesme can bone down before the end of the book, isn’t it? 
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Jun 24, 2020 18:10
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I was telling someone about War of the Colossal Beast last night so all I could think of during the measuring scene was “Reneesme was sixty feet tall!”
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Jun 24, 2020 19:15
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Nice little bit of wish fulfillment here -- no matter how busy you are, you never have to miss a second of your child's development because they'll ESP it directly to your brain later. Free babysitter, free house, a baby that can automatically express its needs and never cries, no pumping milk, no sleepless nights...this is like new parent porn.
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Jun 24, 2020 19:23
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Edit =/= quote
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Jun 24, 2020 19:23
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Oh ugh Siobhan is my name and now it's in this stupid book noo.
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Jun 24, 2020 19:55
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"This is similar to Sergei, my Russian vampire friend. Or Amelie, who justified this plot device in France that one time."
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Jun 26, 2020 14:22
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Chapter 24: Surprisequote:“No. No way!" I shook my head fiercely and then shot a glance at the smug smile on my seventeen-year-old husband’s face. “No, this doesn’t count. I stopped aging three days ago. I am eighteen forever.” Remember how in the beginning of the book, Bella said that she no longer cared about aging for a few years? And now she's right back to where she started, bitching about having to physically exist past 17. quote:“Whatever,” Alice said, dismissing my protest with a quick shrug. “We’re celebrating anyway, so suck it up.” So at this point we have: 1. The Volturi waiting to find out that Bella got turned. 2. Dealing with Charlie and moving out of Forks. 3. Renesmee's weirdness and the reality of Jacob imprinting on her. But sure, let's just derail the plot again for birthday presents! quote:Her grin got impossibly wider as she read the acquiescence in my eyes. But he's just going to power through and force things onto her that she doesn't want, right? quote:“Mine first,” Alice said, and then stuck her tongue out, foreseeing his answer. So I know this makes Alice sound insane, but I went back and there's no mention of Bella changing or cleaning up after hunting. So is she still in her torn, bloody dress with sticks in her hair? quote:My eyebrows pulled together as I wondered how a key could get me into new clothes. Had she gotten me a whole trunkful? But doesn't Alice's power only work right if a decision has solidly been made by the person she's focusing on? Edward has decided not to play, so her future vision should just be telling her that he'll refuse to play and she'll win and oh no I've gone cross-eyed. quote:“It’s probably better that I wait for morning, anyway.” Edward smiled crookedly at me and then nodded toward Jacob and Seth, who looked like they were crashed for the night; I wonder how long they’d stayed up this time. “I think it might be more fun if Jacob was awake for the big reveal, don’t you agree? So that someone there is able to express the right level of enthusiasm?” "Because my heartless wife won't just let me give her sports cars she doesn't want like a whore." quote:I grinned back. He knew me well. Oh, well, now she's okay with it as long as she can rub their communal wealth in the face of the local brown characters who are too poor to afford shoes. quote:“Yay,” Alice sang. “Bella, give Ness—Renesmee to Rosalie.” Remember that there are already existing rumors of half-vampires that they knew about beforehand? quote:Rosalie grinned at me, and I was glad to see that the new comradeship between us was still there in her smile. I hadn’t been entirely sure it would last after Renesmee’s life was no longer tied to mine. But maybe we had fought together on the same side long enough that we would always be friends now. I’d finally made the same choice she would have if she’d been in my shoes. That seemed to have washed away her resentment for all my other choices. Ah, great! All of the resentment that Rosalie had for Bella is now wiped away in an instant because she didn't get an abortion! If you don't want to actually resolve conflicts and just want to make them all instantly go away at the end of the series, maybe you should reconsider if you actually enjoy writing. quote:Alice shoved the beribboned key in my hand, then grabbed my elbow and steered me toward the back door. “Let’s go, let’s go,” she trilled. "Beribboned." quote:“Is it outside?” Super smart vampire brain. Capable of flawless understanding. quote:“Sort of,” Alice said, pushing me forward. Now Emmett and Rosalie are the horny ones! quote:I realized that lots of things about me—like truly hating surprises, and not liking gifts in general much more—had not changed one bit. It was a relief and revelation to discover how much of my essential core traits had come with me into this new body. Why would you be surprised? You've known the Cullens long enough to hear about all their backstories and supposedly you've spent enough time around them for all of them to treat you as a member of the family long before you married into it. Did you think all of them lost their human personalities? Granted, Meyer's writing is devoid of three dimensions.... quote:Alice tugged my elbow, and I couldn’t stop smiling as I followed her into the purple night. Only Edward came with us. What colors? Who knows! Descriptive language is for wimps! quote:Alice took off with us on her heels, heading due north. It was easier to follow the sound of her feet whispering against the ground and the fresh path of her scent than it was to keep my eyes on her through the thick vegetation. Remember when Alice was just the cool Cullen and not a lunatic? quote:I felt Edward’s fingers weave through mine. “Just a few seconds more, Bella. Then she’ll go annoy someone else.” He pulled me forward. I kept up easily. I wasn’t afraid of hitting a tree; the tree would be the only one getting hurt in that scenario. And now she's gotten her reward in Heaven! Das Sporking actually did some research and noted that because of the length of time it would take to bloom, the honeysuckle would either have had to be planted years ago or it would be an illegally imported invasive Japanese species. Remember back when Jacob and Leah were running through the woods brooding and there was a mention of them finding a mysterious trail left by some of the Cullens? Yeah, this was it. They were building the cottage. It wasn't actually something suspicious or dramatic. quote:“What do you think?” Alice’s voice was soft now; it fit with the perfect quiet of the storybook scene. Wait, did they actually own this? Is it even on their property? quote:I continued staring, mouth gaping like a fish. No no, let her explain Emmett's design. I want that. quote:She pressed her lips together and waited. It took me a few seconds to recover. Because it's you who's here to do that!  quote:Alice’s smile faded a little, twisted just off what it had been, like my question was hard to answer. “Oh, you know… they all remember how you are about presents. They didn’t want to put you under too much pressure to like it.” Because most other presents you got elicited a tantrum? quote:“They’ll like that.” She patted my arm. “Anyhoo, your closet is stocked. Use it wisely. And… I guess that’s everything.” ...Alice what is in that closet quote:“Aren’t you going to come inside?” I do! quote:“Then what—” So remember how vampires can hear anything for miles as long as it piques their interest or they try to focus on it? There is an extremely high chance that every couple in this house hears every goddamn second of others' boning as if it's occurring right next to them. All the time. quote:That was all it took to make the house disappear. We could have been anywhere. I didn’t see the trees or the stones or the stars. It was just Edward. Hyperventilating is still possible for vampires, apparently. That one didn't get turned off earlier. quote:For that matter, I ought to have been exhausted. This had been the longest day of my life. You're right, that's the worst joke I've ever heard. quote:He chuckled with me. He held his hand out toward the doorknob, waiting for me to do the honors. I stuck the key in the lock and turned it. “You’re such a natural at this, Bella; I forget how very strange this all must be for you. I wish I could hear it.” He ducked down and yanked me up into his arms so fast that I didn’t see it coming—and that was really something. Friendly reminder that Edward constantly wishes he can invade his wife's most ultimate privacy at all times. quote:“Hey!”
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Jun 26, 2020 15:04
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