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In It For The Tank posted:
I don’t buy this. Abby was the much more interesting and empathetic character. A lot of the backlash I’m seeing is literally people on Reddit saying Joel was a “father figure” for them which is loving weird as hell.
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Jun 23, 2020 00:06
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In It For The Tank posted:Assuming that we can't just axe the story and start again from scratch, a potentially more interesting way to tell the same story while maintaining the unusual non-linear, multi-protagonist story structure would be to start with Abby on Seattle Day 1. this. but i also think alot of the stuff would have worked better if the stuff hadnt leaked. espcially since the leaks didnt really get everything or even the real ending.
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Jun 23, 2020 00:24
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Danger posted:I don’t buy this. Abby was the much more interesting and empathetic character. A lot of the backlash I’m seeing is literally people on Reddit saying Joel was a “father figure” for them which is loving weird as hell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pG7Wc5TUTA&t he isnt even really a good one though. thats more geralt and such.
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Jun 23, 2020 00:25
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Danger posted:I don’t buy this. Abby was the much more interesting and empathetic character. A lot of the backlash I’m seeing is literally people on Reddit saying Joel was a “father figure” for them which is loving weird as hell. No, I totally didn't give a poo poo about Abby. And I thought Joel earned a bullet for the terrible things he did in his life. It's just that this carries over to, say, the woman that brutally tortured a man to death in front of his loved ones. Joel earned his, she earned hers. I don't care about her tragic backstory and how she's a decent person under it all. You don't get to beat a man's head in in front of his family and pretend you get a life after. You don't.
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Jun 23, 2020 00:25
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Mulva posted:No, I totally didn't give a poo poo about Abby. And I thought Joel earned a bullet for the terrible things he did in his life. It's just that this carries over to, say, the woman that brutally tortured a man to death in front of his loved ones. Joel earned his, she earned hers. I don't care about her tragic backstory and how she's a decent person under it all. You don't get to beat a man's head in in front of his family and pretend you get a life after. You don't. yeah. i never liked joel and his answer to them is basicaly gives a "it was a tuesday" type answer to them because he has hosed over THAT many people. the dude was a piece of poo poo who died inside when his daughter died and has been paying it forward for decades. abby and he friends also have it coming as well to varying degrees.
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Jun 23, 2020 00:30
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Danger posted:I don’t buy this. Abby was the much more interesting and empathetic character. A lot of the backlash I’m seeing is literally people on Reddit saying Joel was a “father figure” for them which is loving weird as hell. Did we watch scenes of violence Abby committed? She's definitely a massive piece of poo poo imo
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Jun 23, 2020 00:32
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Mulva posted:No, I totally didn't give a poo poo about Abby. And I thought Joel earned a bullet for the terrible things he did in his life. It's just that this carries over to, say, the woman that brutally tortured a man to death in front of his loved ones. Joel earned his, she earned hers. I don't care about her tragic backstory and how she's a decent person under it all. You don't get to beat a man's head in in front of his family and pretend you get a life after. You don't. Out of curiosity, you do feel that Ellie absolutely deserves death for the damage done by her quest for revenge too right? I can see why that way of thinking would absolutely sour me on this game too.
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Jun 23, 2020 00:42
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah. i never liked joel and his answer to them is basicaly gives a "it was a tuesday" type answer to them because he has hosed over THAT many people. the dude was a piece of poo poo who died inside when his daughter died and has been paying it forward for decades. abby and he friends also have it coming as well to varying degrees. he seemed to cool down in Jackson though, he seemed to have been a pillar of the community and helped a lot of people in the 4 years he lived there. I guess it's a question of whether or not you believe he deserved a chance at redemption for what he's done
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Jun 23, 2020 00:44
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SIGSEGV posted:For me it's less about the retcon thing and more about how the writing of the old game tripped itself so badly it completely changed the intended ending and the new game is trying to sell itself on its deep and thoroughly mind stimulating writing. If I'm going to go in, I'll be at least quite skeptical. well that's the thing for me - i don't really see it as them loving up the intended ending because i was never bothered by the stuff we discussed in the first place. the "but could they have found the cure at all" doesn't even matter that much because the way i see it, the morality of Joel's actions is determined by what he himself knew at the moment, and there's zero indication that he was acting out of anything but wanting to have Ellie back even though, as far as he knew, it would be dooming humanity or at least taking away humanity's hope to have protection from the parasite
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Jun 23, 2020 00:48
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I haven’t played the game yet, but everything I see discussed about the story makes it seem like the writers felt that people didn’t get the point from the first game. It seems like a pretty accepted, uncontroversial reading of the game that Joel was a morally murky character. That game wasn’t especially subtle in being critical of Joel and his motives, but to hear this game described it just sounds like it beats you over the head for 30 hours with “IT WAS ACTUALLY BAD HE KILLED ALL THOSE PEOPLE AND CREATED CYCLES OF VIOLENCE FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS, DO YOU UNDERSTAND??”
General Dog fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 00:52
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General Dog posted:I haven’t played the game yet, but everything I see discussed about the story makes it seem like Every post that has begun like this has been followed by a bad take
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Jun 23, 2020 01:00
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Dapper_Swindler posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pG7Wc5TUTA&t
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Jun 23, 2020 01:01
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Government posted:After sleeping on it, the pacing of the game really soured my feelings towards a good chunk of it. Mostly in a "what could have been" sort of way because I really did love both the presentation and gameplay. I was thinking a doing a long ol post about it but after watching/reading some other takes of people who've beaten the game, CohhCarnage(twitch streamer) kinda sums up what i was going to say anyways. im seriously baffled by the number of perfect reviews it's getting. either those critics never read a book before, or they were blinded by the graphics or something. its just weird.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:05
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CharlestonJew posted:I'm not a fan of the game but I will say the accessibility options are out of this world and more games should have stuff like it this is extremely true and probably the biggest triumph.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:05
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:Every post that has begun like this has been followed by a bad take I for sure still plan to play it, so perhaps I will achieve enlightenment.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:06
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CharlestonJew posted:he seemed to cool down in Jackson though, he seemed to have been a pillar of the community and helped a lot of people in the 4 years he lived there. I guess it's a question of whether or not you believe he deserved a chance at redemption for what he's done I think he deserved a chance at redemption (and got it, really), but also he deserved having people come after him for the stuff he's done in the past. Turning over a new leaf doesn't absolve one of their past sins or obligates anyone to forgive them. The kind of life he lead often ends tragically and violently, if anything the fact that he got to have 4 years of relative peace in a safe community where he had friends and a family is probably much more than what a person in his situation could hope to get. General Dog posted:I haven’t played the game yet, but everything I see discussed about the story makes it seem like the writers felt that people didn’t get the point from the first game. It seems like a pretty accepted, uncontroversial reading of the game that Joel was a morally murky character. That game wasn’t especially subtle in being critical of Joel and his motives, but to hear this game described it just sounds like it beats you over the head for 30 hours with “IT WAS ACTUALLY BAD HE KILLED ALL THOSE PEOPLE AND CREATED CYCLES OF VIOLENCE FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS, DO YOU UNDERSTAND??” lots of people legit didn't get that Joel is a bad, or at least morally complicated person
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Jun 23, 2020 01:06
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RottenK posted:well that's the thing for me - i don't really see it as them loving up the intended ending because i was never bothered by the stuff we discussed in the first place. The thing that makes it bad is that he steps into a hospital that is lovely beyond belief with people doing critical experiments in grimy glassware with ivy and dead leaves invading their workspaces because they don't bother cleaning up and he actually believes even a single thing of what they say about experimental results. In TLOU1 it was ambiguous, so you could have Joel be a sane person in your internal picture of the story, now you can't and that's worse writing, because while before the viewer could ignore the stupid poo poo ideas and make a story that worked, now they can't. They messed up their ending, but in a way that let them get away with it, now to get away with it we need to have every single character be a loving idiot. Which, to be fair, they are, but I'm still gonna call it bad writing.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:06
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I always took it for granted that Joel believed he’d done a terrible thing, otherwise why lie to Ellie about it? I think that’s what makes it a good ending, is how at the end they really seem to see each other, and they come to a silent agreement that “okay, we’re going to agree we can live with this and move on with our lives.” In the end you (the player) can understand and accept that Joel has maybe done something unforgivable while still being “glad” that Joel saved Ellie, because while they may have doomed the world (or at least believe they did), your emotional investment is only in those characters, and not in the rest of that fictional world. In that sense, it puts you in Joel’s shoes.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:14
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SwoleNerd posted:Sorry for dredging this back up but the issue I have with Abby letting Ellie and Tommy live is that she doesnt think theyll come after her the way she went after Joel and its just stupid. At no point in the scene does she think boy I sure hope this woman who is clearly emotionally attached to Joel and his clearly capable brother dont make getting revenge their single all consuming goal in life the way I did. they chose to have owen be that character and then they have us kill him. it's ridiculous
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Jun 23, 2020 01:15
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how does that comic still exist
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Jun 23, 2020 01:15
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pretty much
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Jun 23, 2020 01:17
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Sir Tonk posted:im seriously baffled by the number of perfect reviews it's getting. either those critics never read a book before, or they were blinded by the graphics or something. its just weird. I just saw someone finish it & give it a glowing review. They were blown away by realizing "ellie's missing fingers are a subtle metaphor for her mistakes". They were also stunned by the use of flashbacks being told out of order. I don't think they've played art games lol. I think the CGI is doing a lot of emotional legwork and people are being affected by that
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Jun 23, 2020 01:20
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Danger posted:Yea a ton of the tension came from knowing what the characters were approaching; like Abby arriving back at the aquarium. this would have been fine if i hadnt been forced to murder everyone and the dog in there even though i knew it was pointless.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:21
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Sir Tonk posted:this would have been fine if i hadnt been forced to murder everyone and the dog in there even though i knew it was pointless. You realize that you are not Ellie, correct?
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Jun 23, 2020 01:23
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Danger posted:I dont buy this. Abby was the much more interesting and empathetic character. A lot of the backlash Im seeing is literally people on Reddit saying Joel was a father figure for them which is loving weird as hell. for real, abby is basically the only character other than owen that evolves in any way.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:23
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Sir Tonk posted:pretty much it was a pretty good video but one point that stood out to me is that smaller independent games can have a stronger writing focus comparable to that of other mediums like film, but don't get those comparisons drawn by reviewers or players because they're not trying to be films. as a corollary, there are some indie titles that still strive to evoke other mediums and often with more success - kentucky route zero is 100% made in the tradition of theater and installation-art exhibits, and succeeded at it so well that it alienated a lot of people who called it slow-paced and pretentious Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 01:23
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FalconImpala posted:I just saw someone finish it & give it a glowing review. They were blown away by realizing "ellie's missing fingers are a subtle metaphor for her mistakes". They were also stunned by the use of flashbacks being told out of order. I don't think they've played art games lol. I think the CGI is doing a lot of emotional legwork and people are being affected by that unreal its like tool fans or something
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Jun 23, 2020 01:26
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Question for context: I got linked to PatStaresAt playing the game and Joel announces his first name and gets blasted in the knees for it. Pat then exclaims "wait she didn't even check if it was the right Joel!" Is that right because that's pretty funny to think she might of just blasted some dude who happened to share the same first name.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:29
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Danger posted:You realize that you are not Ellie, correct? if i hadnt played the first game i could have been more into being abby, but that wasnt going to happen. i wanted to see what heppend to her character and have been waiting years. they also set it up as her being the protagonist for half the game, which they could have avoided if they had gotten over the whole raiden/snake twist they wanted to pull out ten hours in.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:31
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Question for context: I got linked to PatStaresAt playing the game and Joel announces his first name and gets blasted in the knees for it. Pat then exclaims "wait she didn't even check if it was the right Joel!" she says "Joel Miller" after the shotgun blast so yeah there's a possibility she might have royally messed up
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Jun 23, 2020 01:32
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Oxxidation posted:it was a pretty good video but one point that stood out to me is that smaller independent games can have a stronger writing focus comparable to that of other mediums like film, but don't get those comparisons drawn by reviewers or players because they're not trying to be films. as a corollary, there are some indie titles that still strive to evoke other mediums and often with more success - kentucky route zero is 100% made in the tradition of theater and installation-art exhibits, and succeeded at it so well that it alienated a lot of people who called it slow-paced and pretentious gone home had a better story that tlou2 and it took like an hour or two to finish if you were not in a hurry. and yeah kentucky route zero was also better. hell, i liked death stranding more than this game. like by a lot.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:33
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CharlestonJew posted:she says "Joel Miller" after the shotgun blast so yeah there's a possibility she might have royally messed up true facts, this was her fifth joel so far. the second one was especially awkward, they didn't realize until like a week later they'd capped him halfway through a "joel mama" joke
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Jun 23, 2020 01:36
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Gentleman Baller posted:Out of curiosity, you do feel that Ellie absolutely deserves death for the damage done by her quest for revenge too right? I can see why that way of thinking would absolutely sour me on this game too. When she finds out she killed a pregnant woman and kept going? Yeah. And to be clear it's the going forward part that does it. Not the killing. She didn't know before, and was defending herself. There's that moment though, when she knows what she did....and she keeps going. And there are no excuses. There's understanding, sure. It makes perfect sense because she's totally hosed up emotionally at that point, but yeah. If you don't take stock of what the hell you are doing and just barrel forward, drat the consequences, then well....you can face the consequences. It makes perfect sense that Joel ended up how he did after the world went to hell and his daughter was killed. It doesn't excuse anything he did though. To be fair, I don't begrudge Joel his attempts at a life either. It's good that he tried to turn his life around, he tried to be better. It just doesn't absolve him from having to pay for what he did. Abby is a fine stand in from the legions of people he screwed over in his life. And had she dropped him and moved on, I'd call her morally impeccable. She had to make it hurt, had to make slow and violent, and she made his family watch. There's a period of years between what Joel did and when she catches up to him. There's all that time she's in total control of the situation with her whole posse. And she still chooses for it go down that way. Well, you want to act like a monster you get a monster's end, same as Joel. Except in her case not, because....reasons?
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Jun 23, 2020 01:36
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CharlestonJew posted:she says "Joel Miller" after the shotgun blast so yeah there's a possibility she might have royally messed up So a factor in this is that he's with Tommy who is a former Firefly so seeing a Joel with Tommy is another factor in her knowing its the right person, plus she would have seen descriptions of what Joel looks like, there's factors that would indicate she probably has it right This is the laziest type of criticism like hmm Charlize Theron should have run to the right in Prometheus therefore it's a poo poo movie, I really outsmarted it
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Jun 23, 2020 01:39
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Just picked this up, any beginning gameplay tips? I did play the first game.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:44
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RatHat posted:Just picked this up, any beginning gameplay tips? I did play the first game. Shoot bad guy
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Jun 23, 2020 01:47
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FalconImpala posted:I just saw someone finish it & give it a glowing review. They were blown away by realizing "ellie's missing fingers are a subtle metaphor for her mistakes". They were also stunned by the use of flashbacks being told out of order. I don't think they've played art games lol. I think the CGI is doing a lot of emotional legwork and people are being affected by that By “CGI” do you mean like, the face capture and actor performances? Because if so I’m not exactly sure why people shouldn’t be affected by that and why it invalidates them liking the story.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:52
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Having now made it as far as Joel getting splat I feel more sure saying that it’s fun, very ND gameplay, and the story grimness is more GoT than Schindler’s List. Also while it looks really good whoever said this was a rare game this gen where the cutscenes are noticeably better than the gameplay animations for things like faces was right.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:56
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Dewgy posted:By “CGI” do you mean like, the face capture and actor performances? Because if so I’m not exactly sure why people shouldn’t be affected by that and why it invalidates them liking the story. Yeah regardless of what you think of the overall arc I think it's undeniable that there are individual scenes in this which are very well acted, written, and animated with impeccable graphics and direction. The combination of actor and animation work brings to life these characters more so than I've seen in any other game and yeah it's moving. Of course indie games have shown you can tell stories with minimalistic graphics but there's a sense of presence in the scenes here that I've never experienced with any other game and I don't think that's a case of being "blinded" by graphics so much as the graphics serve the scene
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Jun 23, 2020 01:56
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:Yeah regardless of what you think of the overall arc I think it's undeniable that there are individual scenes in this which are very well acted, written, and animated with impeccable graphics and direction. The combination of actor and animation work brings to life these characters more so than I've seen in any other game and yeah it's moving. Of course indie games have shown you can tell stories with minimalistic graphics but there's a sense of presence in the scenes here that I've never experienced with any other game and I don't think that's a case of being "blinded" by graphics so much as the graphics serve the scene you're clapping at keys being jangled in front of your face
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Jun 23, 2020 01:58
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