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Cobalt-60 posted:Back to the game...why is every encounter in this stupid House of Horrors a clusterfuck? There are so many fun encounters in the game, why do i have to slog through "6 rounds of slowly plunking away with the 4 things that will actually damage the enemies while they infinitely spam their bullshit" every other room? Padding? CEO's failson got kicked from everywhere else, so he got pissy, scribbled this out, and whined to Daddy? If this was a RL Pathfinder campaign, I'd be having a serious conversation with the GM to ask them if there's something going wrong in their life, and do they need to take a break, cause this is not the work of a mentally balanced person. Wasn't one of the original principals of the game 'we want this to be hard'? ShitHouse felt like they remembered that design maxim 80% of the way in. That and what looked like a frantic crunch to get the game out the door makes me think this was just a victim of never being thoughtfully tested.
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Jun 22, 2020 06:00
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NikkolasKing posted:I don't actually play D&D. A major complication with D&D 3.x, D&D 5e, and Pathfinder 1e derivatives is that all spell scaling and most ability scaling is based off class level (as distinct from total character level), and is generally exponential in power (more so for casters, which are generally much stronger at high level than non-casters, at least without mechanical elements to buff non-casters that just aren't included in the game). For example, a sorcerer 5/paladin 5 only has 5th-level sorcerer casting and 5th-level paladin abilities, which even added together are noticeably weaker than either straight sorcerer 10 or paladin 10. The main exception here is limited class dipping for specific high-power abilities, like paladin 2 (add Charisma bonus to saving throws), monk 1 (add Wisdom bonus to AC, or Charisma to AC with the scaled fist archetype), inquisitor 2 (add Wisdom to Initiative), rogue 1 with the thug archetype (enhance Intimidation effects), and so on. Roadie fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 06:22
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Foolie posted:Wasn't one of the original principals of the game 'we want this to be hard'? ShitHouse felt like they remembered that design maxim 80% of the way in. That and what looked like a frantic crunch to get the game out the door makes me think this was just a victim of never being thoughtfully tested. It's more that their beta testers were massive 3.5 grogs, so they tailored their difficulty to them. After release the difficulty of most of the game was toned down, with the early sections seeing more effort put into balancing compared to the endgame.
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Jun 22, 2020 12:01
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Cynic Jester posted:It's more that their beta testers were massive 3.5 grogs, so they tailored their difficulty to them. After release the difficulty of most of the game was toned down, with the early sections seeing more effort put into balancing compared to the endgame. That feels far too true. Playing the early game shortly after release was an exercise in reloading compulsively to land sleep or avoid a crit or something like that. Was it even possible as a giant grog to make it through the early game without getting destroyed? (on Unfair difficulty) It felt like I just didn't have enough tools to get AB, Saves, and AC up high enough to reasonably handle the early game content.
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Jun 22, 2020 18:12
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Foolie posted:That feels far too true. Playing the early game shortly after release was an exercise in reloading compulsively to land sleep or avoid a crit or something like that. Was it even possible as a giant grog to make it through the early game without getting destroyed? (on Unfair difficulty) It felt like I just didn't have enough tools to get AB, Saves, and AC up high enough to reasonably handle the early game content. If you do not know how to stack your buffs, which encounters are actually doable at levels 2-3 and some good party synergy(which is harder with smaller number of companions and possibly your choice of mc), unfair is an exercise to frustration. And it's unlikely you will figure these out easily in your first run. On the other hand, the difficulty is called UNFAIR. Granted, quite a few games let you kinda cruise in their hardest difficulty mode.
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Jun 22, 2020 18:39
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How reactive is the dialogue in this game to stuff like Class or Religion, anyway? I fear POE might have spoiled me on this sorta thing.
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Jun 22, 2020 19:17
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NikkolasKing posted:How reactive is the dialogue in this game to stuff like Class or Religion, anyway? I fear POE might have spoiled me on this sorta thing. Religion gets reactivity only when its relevant iirc. Class not so much though the ability to Detect Magic comes up a lot. Alignment and Skills are what play the biggest factor in dialogue but I recommend downloading Bag of Tricks mod and turning off alignment restrictions since a lot of the coolest choices are blocked off otherwise. In general you should be careful what you say to characters. Some comments you can make really can affect things much further down the line. You have to ask the right questions at certain points in the story to get the best ending for instance. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 19:47
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Yeah, in all seriousness unless you truly know the ins-and-outs of the system, being willing to preplan power builds rather than whatever you want alongside various other specific strategies, don't touch the highest difficulty settings. Regardless of whether it's a good thing or not, the difficulty levels really are a callback to years past, where the top difficulty levels really are incredibly hard - often unfairly so. Or in other words, using a different game property, I've gradually watched on person casually cruise through Chimera Squad - switching up to the highest difficulty halfway through the second story arc just to get SOME difficulty (and it still wasn't particularly hard)... and then I've also been watching a different person play through UFO Defense on Superhuman. Oh, and having now finished that, they just started Terror from the Deep - also on Superhuman. Anyone familiar with the old X-Com games probably has an idea of how that second run has started.
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Jun 22, 2020 19:51
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NikkolasKing posted:How reactive is the dialogue in this game to stuff like Class or Religion, anyway? I fear POE might have spoiled me on this sorta thing. Not at all from I remember. Skills and alignment get checked frequently though.
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Jun 22, 2020 19:53
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Lord Koth posted:Oh, and having now finished that, they just started Terror from the Deep - also on Superhuman. Anyone familiar with the old X-Com games probably has an idea of how that second run has started. I imagine it's going swimmingly. 
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Jun 22, 2020 19:58
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Nephthys posted:Religion gets reactivity only when its relevant iirc. Class not so much though the ability to Detect Magic comes up a lot. Alignment and Skills are what play the biggest factor in dialogue but I recommend downloading Bag of Tricks mod and turning off alignment restrictions since a lot of the coolest choices are blocked off otherwise. Can you elaborate on this without spoilers? I don't understand what you mean.
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Jun 22, 2020 20:30
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NikkolasKing posted:Can you elaborate on this without spoilers? I don't understand what you mean. Most of the cool dialogue options are only available to certain specific alignments, and those alignments aren't compatible with other cool dialogue options or classes, etc. For example, if you want to be a Paladin, you have to be Lawful Good, but then you can't be nice to certain subsets of the population of your kingdom because they're teeeeechnically monsters.
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Jun 22, 2020 20:35
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The way alignment is supposed to work is, you do or say something lawful, you get shifted towards lawful, right? Well this game has a dumb thing where it sometimes does the other way around, and some "lawful" options can't be picked unless you are already lawful. As an example a chaotic character might be locked out of telling a thief to turn himself in to the guards, which in turn might lock you out of the optimal resolution of the quest.
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Jun 22, 2020 20:39
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NikkolasKing posted:Can you elaborate on this without spoilers? I don't understand what you mean. There are decisions you get in the game where you aren't able to select some of the choices if you have a contradictory alignment. Like if you're good you can't pick some evil options, or if you're lawful you can't pick some chaotic options. It's mainly for the big end of Act stuff that have big effects on the game, but Pathfinder has an odd sense of morality that doesn't gel with some modern ideas. Lawful Good characters are very intolerant of the 'monster' races for instance, even if those races are fully sapient. Its annoying to have your options limited in this way so there's a mod called Bag of Tricks which has an option to turn this off. I highly recommend you get this mod anyway because it really allows you to modify the game to your tastes and can get you out of bugs or frustrating situations. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 20:40
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Very interesting, thank you all for the info. That does sound like an annoying limitation as it almost locks you into your alignment which kinda defeats the point of roleplaying. If this Bag of Tricks mod will let me play a CE Druid (which is a thing in Pathfinder 2e anyway), I'm absolutely getting it.
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Jun 22, 2020 20:48
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NikkolasKing posted:Very interesting, thank you all for the info. That does sound like an annoying limitation as it almost locks you into your alignment which kinda defeats the point of roleplaying. Bag of Tricks lets you do pretty much anything you want, including ignoring class alignment restrictions. While you're at it, pick up the Turn-Based Combat mod (it's being integrated into the main game eventually but I don't remember when that update is due). It makes the harder fights way easier to understand and you can turn it on and off on the fly so you can still real-time curb stomp the easier battles.
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Jun 22, 2020 20:54
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NikkolasKing posted:Very interesting, thank you all for the info. That does sound like an annoying limitation as it almost locks you into your alignment which kinda defeats the point of roleplaying. To be clear, the default for conversations is that all alignment options are unlocked, and which you pick will have an effect on your alignment. What they're referring to are a small minority of conversations where certain choices are locked to try and make your current alignment more meaningful. It's perfectly fair to not like it - and there are definitely points where it can get frustrating if you know all the options - but it's an attempt to try and make your RP'd alignment MORE meaningful, rather than the player always picking the most rewarding option or whatever.
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Jun 22, 2020 20:57
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Zurai posted:Bag of Tricks lets you do pretty much anything you want, including ignoring class alignment restrictions. Oh I know all about the turn-based mod and was absolutely gonna be using it. I think I've had my fill of RTwP for now after both Pillars games. I'm probably gonna need it as this game sounds a lot more involved than POE. Lord Koth posted:To be clear, the default for conversations is that all alignment options are unlocked, and which you pick will have an effect on your alignment. What they're referring to are a small minority of conversations where certain choices are locked to try and make your current alignment more meaningful. It's perfectly fair to not like it - and there are definitely points where it can get frustrating if you know all the options - but it's an attempt to try and make your RP'd alignment MORE meaningful, rather than the player always picking the most rewarding option or whatever. Well that does make sense. I dunno, I'll load it up and tinker with it when I start the game. Probably a few more days yet to wrap up Deadfire, although I'm getting antsy to just finish it and start this.
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Jun 22, 2020 21:11
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Looking at the Kingmaker subreddit, some folks recommend following a guide because a variety of quests are so time sensitive that you will lose out on stuff if you don't know what to look for. That's worrying.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:37
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NikkolasKing posted:Looking at the Kingmaker subreddit, some folks recommend following a guide because a variety of quests are so time sensitive that you will lose out on stuff if you don't know what to look for. On your first play, don't worry about anything. Just use that time to learn the system. You can't do everything in one run anyways. Some choices will lock out other options. In the first chapter there's a bonus for beating it within 30 days. Really don't worry about this, the bonus is something that only a specific build can use anyways. In chapter two there's a time limit for an event which will be very obvious. There's other timers that start and cause things to happen as well as other events get triggered. Again these are fairly obvious. This will repeat through the entire game. Late game there's a few 'do this or lose' things, but at the same time you are usually steered in the right direction. There's one notable exception to this, when you get to chapter 5/6 ask us when you think something's not happening when it should. There's a 90% chance you will restart the game before this though, as you will have ideas on a 'better' build or character path. You'll use the restart to optimize your early progression. Part of what makes the 3.5/pathfinder system so good is the sheer amount of choices, but this can lead to rethinking your options frequently. There is respeccing, but it does get expensive quickly.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:45
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Yeah, I'd say keep a guide handy but its not necessary to follow one religiously. I think what that's referring to is that its possible to miss several companions. I would recommend looking up the recruitment details of them to be safe. Maybe check out the advisors as well at some point during the game. Also unlike how most games work, after you have your kingdom set up you should be beelining the main quest whenever you can. The longer a problem is going on in your kingdom the more it negatively effects it, so resolve each crisis asap.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:54
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Are there any cool bard builds/multi-classes that wouldn’t overlap too much with having Linzi in my party? I almost always play bard classes but I also like having her around.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:57
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Anno posted:Are there any cool bard builds/multi-classes that wouldn’t overlap too much with having Linzi in my party? I almost always play bard classes but I also like having her around. Thundercaller archtype. Turn your songs into lighting blasts or stunning sonic bursts. You get a LOT of performance charges a day. Kalas fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 00:10
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Dawnflower Dervish would have been a cool archetype option for bard (maybe one of the mods adds it? Haven't looked too closely). As implied by the name, it's a Sarenrae-specific option, and it basically gives up most team support for personal bonuses. Specifically, their friendly bardic performances can only affect/target the bard themselves, but they grant DOUBLE the normal bonus. Also gets Dervish Dance as a bonus feat (Dex-to-damage with a scimitar, along with being able to apply Weapon Finesse), and some minor stuff like +4 to concentration and quickening some cure spells a day. Good to begin with, and gets hilarious with a certain spell not currently in the game - Virtuoso Performance, which allows you to maintain two performances at once (albeit at doubled performance usages). Even aside from the obvious maxing at +8 to-hit/damage instead of +4 for Inspire Courage (before any shenanigans to increase that higher), realize that doubling of bonuses also means you get four temp. HD instead of two from Inspire Greatness... including the now +4 BAB they grant. Congrats, you're now playing a bard that can get more base attacks faster than an actual full BAB class. Or just toss up +8 to saves and AC with Heroics. Downsides, aside from losing the teamplay aspect, are the specific note that Lingering Performance or similar does not work with them, plus the loss of Dirge of Doom, Bardic Knowledge and Lore Master - so their knowledge checks take a hit. They've still got the skills though, and do still have access to Versatile Performance (albeit that's only in this game as bard talents), so they can still manage skills decently. Just would have been interesting to get a truly combat-focused bard in the game.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:16
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Lord Koth posted:Just would have been interesting to get a truly combat-focused bard in the game. The Call of the Wild mod puts in Arrowsong Minstrel.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:20
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NikkolasKing posted:Looking at the Kingmaker subreddit, some folks recommend following a guide because a variety of quests are so time sensitive that you will lose out on stuff if you don't know what to look for. While keeping a guide bookmarked can be useful, the only things you should really look up because it would be a shame to miss are companion recruitment and companion quests. The time limit for the important quests is not only huge, the game hammers it to you with the subtlety of a sledgehammer ("Our citizens are being eaten alive, holy poo poo") if not showing you the actual days remaining outright. While there is an optimal approach to handle some specific events. if you just try to tackle areas and events when they open up to you instead of like, doing kingdom management for 4 months straight, the chance you will fail a time sensitive quest is extremely low. Lord Koth posted:
JamMasterJim fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 03:48
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Cobalt-60 posted:Back to the game...why is every encounter in this stupid House of Horrors a clusterfuck? There are so many fun encounters in the game, why do i have to slog through "6 rounds of slowly plunking away with the 4 things that will actually damage the enemies while they infinitely spam their bullshit" every other room? Padding? CEO's failson got kicked from everywhere else, so he got pissy, scribbled this out, and whined to Daddy? If this was a RL Pathfinder campaign, I'd be having a serious conversation with the GM to ask them if there's something going wrong in their life, and do they need to take a break, cause this is not the work of a mentally balanced person. You should have seen it before they adjusted the difficulty in an early patch. It was brutal. Much more manageable in turn-based mode and with a kineticist.
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Jun 23, 2020 05:12
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Pathfinder, like a lot of level-based systems, sucks at making effective challenges at both the low and high ends of the scale, but does okay in the middle. In the early game, it only takes a couple of bad die rolls to completely splatter your character, because everyone is fighting with weapons roughly the same size as their hit dice. A third level character instantly goes from full to down if an enemy gets a critical. By mid-game, the ability to deflect and take damage has risen enough that you can actually react to and counter threats and combat can be fun. And then in late game, because damage dice have become boring or ineffective, everyone gets save-or-die effects and you’re back to early game “it only takes a couple of bad die rolls to completely splatter your character.”
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Jun 23, 2020 05:27
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NikkolasKing posted:Looking at the Kingmaker subreddit, some folks recommend following a guide because a variety of quests are so time sensitive that you will lose out on stuff if you don't know what to look for. While not a time-sensitive thing, is it still the case that one of the advisors you can pick at the beginning of the game will royally gently caress you two hundred hours later? As someone that was worried about time-sensitive issues, I was grumpy about this particular issue. (Feature?) Foolie fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 05:27
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There are two advisors who can leave you abruptly, and one of whom trashes some of your stats because he’s an evil jerk, but neither is really that bad. It used to be that one of the guys who left could potentially leave you with no possible replacement which pretty much tanked your kingdom if you didn’t game the hell out of it, but they’ve since fixed it so that mercenary NPCs you make can also be advisors, so it’s not nearly an issue. In general Kalas and JamMasterJim are right: when you move into a new chapter, it’s usually a good idea to chase down the plot of that chapter and deal with it first, and then you’ll usually have time at the end to chase loose ends, upgrade your kingdom, etc. The big time waster that’s easy to gently caress up IMO is rations. Always make sure you travel with a bunch of rations, and always make sure the “use rations” button is checked when you camp. If so, you’ll rest for 9 hours, hunt a few rations, and eat the difference from what you carry. If it’s not checked, you stay in camp hunting until you hunt enough rations, which may take 24 hours. This is an easy way to just completely waste weeks of game time if you’re not paying attention.
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Jun 23, 2020 05:55
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I think they also fixed the thing where if you don't do Amiri's and Tristian's quests in the right order one or both of them dies. I think the only thing that really requires a guide is if you want to do the "secret" romance which is a prerequisite for the best ending.
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Jun 23, 2020 07:24
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Avalerion posted:I think the only thing that really requires a guide is if you want to do the "secret" romance which is a prerequisite for the best ending. They made that a little easier too - one of the easy to miss decisions that was supposed to make it impossible (not bringing Tristian to Vordakai's tomb so you can talk him out of stealing the Oculus for Nyrissa so she can find the real Briar and prevent you from repairing her soul) was made reversible in a patch (if Nyrissa finds the real Briar, you can find it in a chest at the HatEoT before you meet her and then follow through on the secret ending if you meet the other requirements).
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Jun 23, 2020 13:34
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Sorry about the nonstop torrent of questions but what about reactivity towards your character's Race? That's honestly a bigger one than Class or Religion. Half-Orcs get a pretty lovely hand in life and would probably be treated differently than some Elf. I also was thinking of trying a Tiefling but they were DLC added and would probably have even less dialogue for them than the regular Races, sorta like Grey Orcs in Neverwinter Nights.
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Jun 23, 2020 15:38
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Also minimal, pretty much just fluff if that.
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Jun 23, 2020 15:52
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Well this is all a bit disappointing. What would you say is Kingmaker's strongest quality? What does it do really well? Good companions or lots of choices or....?
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Jun 23, 2020 20:25
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The next game promises A LOT more regarding Class/Race reactivity if thats one of the things you really look up to in RPGs
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Jun 23, 2020 20:36
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NikkolasKing posted:Well this is all a bit disappointing. The quality of the overall writing, plot events and companions is quite good and often underestimated IMO, although a bit of a slow burn(it's personally the most fun I have had with a main quest since BG trilogy except maybe MotB) and there are many, many ways to build your own character and with companions (before we event enter custom ones) and slaughter your way through. I have spent a hundred hours on the roguelike dungeon dlc just trying whatever I randomly think of. Even though kingdom management is pretty simple and mostly feeds on itself (get better kingdom stats to resolve kingdom problems better, with few decissions spilling over the rest of the game), the RP aspect of how you want your kingdom to e and how your advisors comment is very fun too. There are some signs of great encounters and dungeons as well, though it's not as consistent as I would like. All in all, the one recent CRPG actually closest to what BG is actually like and they are already applying lessons learned for Wrath of the Righteous. JamMasterJim fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 21:06
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NikkolasKing posted:Well this is all a bit disappointing. Big world to explore and sometimes interesting things to find. Plot is...OK. Conpanions are kind of hit or miss. Reactivity is wonky.
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Jun 23, 2020 21:18
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Simple heroic story with a satisfying sense of progression, a great villain, the characters & companions are fun.
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Jun 23, 2020 21:27
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Combat is also quite good with the turn-based mod.
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Jun 23, 2020 21:36
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