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Another Uproxx writer speaking out https://twitter.com/fallwestmike/status/1275098471733833728
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Jun 23, 2020 05:57
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Another Dave Crist story https://twitter.com/marykayfabe/status/1275268772270571520
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Jun 23, 2020 07:11
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Wait, wasn't Colt implicated in one of these reports?
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Jun 23, 2020 07:18
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Pylons posted:Wait, wasn't Colt implicated in one of these reports? The only thing I remember seeing about Colt is that a promoter tried to coerce a wrestler into sleeping with him. I don't remember the details but I don't think Colt was involved in the coercion.
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Jun 23, 2020 07:22
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Lamuella posted:The only thing I remember seeing about Colt is that a promoter tried to coerce a wrestler into sleeping with him. I don't remember the details but I don't think Colt was involved in the coercion. I think it was something involving an underage trainee that was told that Colt "liked the look of her" and that it was "in her best interest to make him happy". She was supposed to get his number but that didn't end up happening.
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Jun 23, 2020 07:25
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The Colt thing doesn't feel like there's enough information to decide if that was Colt being lovely or if it was a promoter having ideas of their own after he mentioned liking the look of a girl. Although if I remember correctly the post went on to say later on that the same promoter told her she looked really young for her age so if that's the look he's into then yikes maybe.
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Jun 23, 2020 07:29
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Yeah, Colt was just on the list, but I don't recall if the list was just people the promoter was looking at to sleep with the trainee or a list of wrestlers who did want to sleep with the trainee. And they said Colt either didn't do it or didn't make it out to the UK. I wondered when Colt's name appeared on there, if it'd open the floodgates for him like with Joey Ryan since Colt's traveled for just as many indies, but he's been clear so far. He always struck me as a good dude, but uhhh given how this week has played out i'm gonna reserve thinking that about any wrestler for a while.
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Jun 23, 2020 07:45
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ZSJ was in one list, but are there any reports about him?
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Jun 23, 2020 07:52
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Schneider Heim posted:ZSJ was in one list, but are there any reports about him? There was at some point a fake list being used to troll people from my understanding that featured him, chris hero, and a few others who have I have not seen accused of anything. If I am wrong about that I'm sorry that's what I remember seeing several pages back.
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Jun 23, 2020 07:55
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Eat My Fuc posted:There was at some point a fake list being used to troll people from my understanding that featured him, chris hero, and a few others who have I have not seen accused of anything. If I am wrong about that I'm sorry that's what I remember seeing several pages back. The Chris Hero "accusation" was that he slept with a girl who had a boyfriend which while a little lovely if he knew, isn't deserving of being included on a list of rapists, domestic abusers and paedophiles.
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Jun 23, 2020 07:58
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GEORGE W BUSHI posted:The Chris Hero "accusation" was that he slept with a girl who had a boyfriend which while a little lovely if he knew, isn't deserving of being included on a list of rapists, domestic abusers and paedophiles. I'm curious if that's a new accusation or one relating to way, way, way back in the day when Hero had some heat for supposedly (or legit?) sleeping around with the boys' girlfriends or at least being very friendly with them. Young Chris Hero just did not seem like a nice guy depending on who you asked.
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Jun 23, 2020 08:04
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It is interesting to me that a wrestler with an overly creepy sexualized persona/wrestling character, (Joey Ryan), turns out to be such a creep in real life. Yet another wrestler with an arguably even more creepy overly sexualized public persona, (Big E), turns out to be one of the good guys. I suppose that this is exemplifies the difference between an arsehole fuckhead 'living the gimmick', and a good person just having fun. gently caress the arsehole rapists.
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Jun 23, 2020 08:12
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Schneider Heim posted:ZSJ was in one list, but are there any reports about him? A lot of people are noticing he's been awfully quiet on his account about this despite being heavily involved in britwres for years. You would think it would be something he would jump into with both feet with the social conscience he has previously displayed. It's possible he's in shock or doing something else entirely, but he's wrestling on NJPW and I can't believe it's not a topic that is being discussed among the foreign crew and with his friends from back home. But there are zero reports that I've seen on him doing anything wrong. I dunno. It's gotten so feverish that silence starts looking suspicious.
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Jun 23, 2020 08:22
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Von Linus posted:A lot of people are noticing he's been awfully quiet on his account about this despite being heavily involved in britwres for years. You would think it would be something he would jump into with both feet with the social conscience he has previously displayed. It's possible he's in shock or doing something else entirely, but he's wrestling on NJPW and I can't believe it's not a topic that is being discussed among the foreign crew and with his friends from back home. But there are zero reports that I've seen on him doing anything wrong. I don't agree with that stance. The voice of the victims is most important. He may be trying to stay out of it in order to avoid distracting from their stories. I really don't think that we should go down the road of attacking uninvolved parties for not saying things, though.
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Jun 23, 2020 08:47
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The Cabana thing is 100% a situation where we need to hear his side of the story or for someone else to speak out before we can say anything about him - what precisely did he say about whoever it was (second hand story through Jetta; at least I don't think it was her); was it a thing he casually said without knowing someone's age which would be lovely in a scene where people under 18 were around but possibly a sign of ignorance or was it a more active thing - or hell did he say anything at all: in the story she'll told that by a promoter who was a predator himself so who knows if that actually was something said to him and not just some invention. Not something you can end someone's career over by any means. The Joey Ryan thing does reveal the inherent consent issues in spots like the stuff he used to do and personally I'm fine if they go in the bin forever. Like in a dream world you'd have a situation where before anyone was booked against someone like that they'd give their consent and if they didn't the match wouldn't happen or they'd not do that stuff but when you have power imbalances like you had there (Ryan being a somewhat major indy star) then its much harder for someone to have said no since that might have harmed their future bookings or even cost them a spot on that show if the only reason they were contacted was to wrestle Joey Ryan. There are probably ways you could do it correctly but like its such a tricky balance that I don't know I think anything should try.
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Jun 23, 2020 08:50
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Someone already posted and deleted a "don't trust ZSJ's woke progressive persona" for whatever that's worth.
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Jun 23, 2020 08:55
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It's entirely possible that the promoter was acting on their own accord and Cabana was genuinely unaware of the whole thing. Wouldn't be the first time poo poo like that happened. Colt should definitely address this, though.
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Jun 23, 2020 08:57
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Von Linus posted:I dunno. It's gotten so feverish that silence starts looking suspicious. Candice Lerae just hours ago finally commented on her thoughts on all the allegations against Joey Ryan, and she'd been friends with/worked with Joey for literally a decade For promotions who employ these people, I agree silence is a bad look. For the actual individuals who knew or thought they knew these people, in some cases being best friends at least with them, for years, a decade, maybe even longer: I can understand needing time to process
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Jun 23, 2020 09:02
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One of the reasons why it's important that things like Speaking Out happen, beyond exposing the rotten predators in the business, is to reinforce what the actual rules are, and certainly what they are from this point forward. It's inevitable that there are going to be some people in this who dodge a bullet, who have done abusive or coercive things in the past, have been worrying for the last few days that they were going to come out, and who are feeling a sense of relief that nothing's come out so far. Obviously it would be better for everyone if these people were exposed for what they've done, but even if they aren't we're still in a better position than if nothing at all had come out,. Either these people realise they dodged a bullet and adjust their behaviour accordingly (which does nothing for past victims but prevents future ones) or they don't adjust their behaviour but they're now operating in an environment where people are much more likely to speak out because people who speak out are much more likely to be believed. There are obviously still many things wrong with wrestling and will be even after the abusers exposed this time have been shoved out of the industry. I have some hope that there has been a change in what is tolerated, and that's an overall good thing.
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Jun 23, 2020 09:06
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collocation posted:I don't agree with that stance. The voice of the victims is most important. He may be trying to stay out of it in order to avoid distracting from their stories. He was in a tag team with Marty Scurrl for years, when, apparently, Party Marty's interest in underage girls was an open secret, worked IPW, FCP, Progress all of which are pretty tainted at this point and has consistently spoken out for social justice causes representing victims using twitter. I'm not attacking him or saying he did anything, I'm saying I would expect him to say something because of who he has worked with and what he has consistently done in the past and how he monetises his activism. If he doesn't think he should say something I'm amazed frankly. Edit: Sorry, I'm getting a bit carried away. I hope he's got nothing to do with this and silence means nothing. I'm disappointed he's choosing to remain silent and not commenting or amplifying voices. Von Linus fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 09:08
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Chris James 2 posted:Candice Lerae just hours ago finally commented on her thoughts on all the allegations against Joey Ryan, and she'd been friends with/worked with Joey for literally a decade There's also the possibility that, considering ZSJ is currently involved in New Japan's big comeback series, he's been encouraged not to bring New Japan into this. I haven't kept track but other than Ospreay have any other current New Japan talent spoken about this at all?
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Jun 23, 2020 09:08
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None of the people I just checked have, no
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Jun 23, 2020 09:16
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https://twitter.com/elpwrestling/status/1275188927456935941?s=21
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Jun 23, 2020 09:18
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Draxion posted:None of the people I just checked have, no looks like Henare made a very general statement a while ago, but that's the only one I've seen: https://twitter.com/HenareNZ/status/1273736336520822785 This is suggesting if not a three line whip then a general discouragement from talking about it.
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Jun 23, 2020 09:20
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IceAgeComing posted:The Joey Ryan thing does reveal the inherent consent issues in spots like the stuff he used to do and personally I'm fine if they go in the bin forever. Like in a dream world you'd have a situation where before anyone was booked against someone like that they'd give their consent and if they didn't the match wouldn't happen or they'd not do that stuff but when you have power imbalances like you had there (Ryan being a somewhat major indy star) then its much harder for someone to have said no since that might have harmed their future bookings or even cost them a spot on that show if the only reason they were contacted was to wrestle Joey Ryan. There are probably ways you could do it correctly but like its such a tricky balance that I don't know I think anything should try. It's very similar to how film and TV actresses get pressured into doing nude/sex scenes. Often it's couched as a woman being "fearless" or "taking a chance" to become a bigger star (at least that's what gets fed to the media), but most of the time it's really under fear of being blackballed or labeled "difficult to work with." We saw this play out way, way too many times in the 90s and 00s, when talented actresses considered rising stars "mysteriously" stopped getting work when they refused Weinstein's advances. That power dynamic was very much in play with Joey Ryan matches. He positioned himself as an advocate for intergender wrestling and basically claimed that women wrestling him was almost a rite of passage in the business -- more than a few times he went on Twitter and congratulated himself for putting someone over and claiming he made them a bigger star. Getting in the ring with him and being expected to take a dick flip or boobplex was really more of a threat than a "consensual" suggestion. Less "do you agree to do this" and more "I'm the star, I gotta get my poo poo in, do you want this main event match or not" Benne fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 09:21
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Von Linus posted:He was in a tag team with Marty Scurrl for years, when, apparently, Party Marty's interest in underage girls was an open secret, worked IPW, FCP, Progress all of which are pretty tainted at this point and has consistently spoken out for social justice causes representing victims using twitter. I'm not attacking him or saying he did anything, I'm saying I would expect him to say something because of who he has worked with and what he has consistently done in the past and how he monetises his activism. I mean, the super "woke" position is actually now not to take the space of women who were victimized who are telling their stories. The guest on post-wrestling made a point that it is important that the victims, and only the victims, tell their stories. "I'm with you" tweets are starting to come off as pretty hollow these days, especially after so many people who made them ended up being predators too. We'll see, I guess, but I find the fact that he noped the gently caress out of the UK to the extent that he learned Japanese and made Japan his primary residence to be telling. He basically took his first chance to get out. We're being purely speculative, but that makes me think that there could be things in the UK that he wanted to distance himself from, and maybe people who he didn't want to know. I feel weird speculating, though.
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Jun 23, 2020 09:25
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collocation posted:I mean, the super "woke" position is actually now not to take the space of women who were victimized who are telling their stories. The guest on post-wrestling made a point that it is important that the victims, and only the victims, tell their stories. "I'm with you" tweets are starting to come off as pretty hollow these days, especially after so many people who made them ended up being predators too. Again, a goon in this thread has made a number of swiftly deleted posts implying that ZSJ has skeletons in closet. Like, I'm not going to start hating ZSJ unless something substantial comes out but I'm mentally preparing for my favourite wrestler to turn out to be a poo poo
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Jun 23, 2020 09:38
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dude has been calling England trash for years, can you blame him for bailing? Chris Brookes moved to Japan and is learning the language too but he’s not being looked at funny.
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Jun 23, 2020 09:52
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the escape goat posted:dude has been calling England trash for years, can you blame him for bailing? Chris Brookes moved to Japan and is learning the language too but he’s not being looked at funny. Brookes is talking about it with Schadenfreude twitter and retweeting victims.
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Jun 23, 2020 09:55
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collocation posted:I mean, the super "woke" position is actually now not to take the space of women who were victimized who are telling their stories. The guest on post-wrestling made a point that it is important that the victims, and only the victims, tell their stories. "I'm with you" tweets are starting to come off as pretty hollow these days, especially after so many people who made them ended up being predators too. I thought the super woke position was to retweet women's voices without adding your anecdote. Thus you get a wider audience for their voice.
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Jun 23, 2020 09:56
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Can't help, but feel like we already did this song and dance already when someone here suggested that Candice was "complicit or an idiot" in regards to Joey after she made her statement, but now in reverse with ZSJ being silent. I think it's safe to say this is vastly different compared to some of Zack's other activism (At least off the top of my head) since it is now suddenly very, very personal. Anything from our end is just baseless speculation. Given the fact that everything in the UK scene Zack grew up in has seemingly fallen apart, I'd rather get something well-thought-out from him vs. a hollow "I am repulsed by all of this! I support the #SpeakingOut movement" then he gets outed immediately like Devlin and some others have. And of course, this post could age very poorly in the coming days (or the next couple of hours) depending on how things play out.
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Jun 23, 2020 09:58
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Von Linus posted:Brookes is talking about it with Schadenfreude twitter and retweeting victims. I mean specifically the moving to Japan and learning the language bit. ZSJ still goes back to England to do work with RevPro and popped up at Schadengraps once. I think people are preemptively frittering about Zack because he’s so universally beloved but I don’t find it necessary for us to assume the worst simply due to the fact that he hasn’t said anything yet. I haven’t seen any of the posted and hastily deleted things about him in this thread yet, but I don’t think it’s productive to get ahead of ourselves with him. *looks around, knocks on wood*
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Jun 23, 2020 10:00
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Huntman posted:Can't help, but feel like we already did this song and dance already when someone here suggested that Candice was "complicit or an idiot" in regards to Joey after she made her statement, but now in reverse with ZSJ being silent. I think it's safe to say this is vastly different compared to some of Zack's other activism (At least off the top of my head) since it is now suddenly very, very personal. Anything from our end is just baseless speculation. Given the fact that everything in the UK scene Zack grew up in has seemingly fallen apart, I'd rather get something well-thought-out from him vs. a hollow "I am repulsed by all of this! I support the #SpeakingOut movement" then he gets outed immediately like Devlin and some others have. Yeah. I suppose I'm mostly in the twitter bubble where reactions have to be instant and 5 days seems like an eternity.
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Jun 23, 2020 10:01
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Von Linus posted:Yeah. I suppose I'm mostly in the twitter bubble where reactions have to be instant and 5 days seems like an eternity. 5 days seeming like an eternity is very much a common thing these days, friend. time is lopsided as hell in quarantine world. ...holy poo poo this has all happened in the course of 5 days. that’s WILD.
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Jun 23, 2020 10:04
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The Sammy Guevara thing felt like it went forever and it all happened in less than 12 hours 
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Jun 23, 2020 10:12
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Von Linus posted:I thought the super woke position was to retweet women's voices without adding your anecdote. Thus you get a wider audience for their voice. That too. Basically, our voices as random dudes who haven't had issues, are really not needed here. (I actually got raped when I was 20, but I still don't have any perspective to add to the wrestling stuff other than that sucks, and people support you. And, realistically, wrestlers who are actually friends with talent who have been abused would seem way less grandstanding if they said that it in private, instead of on Twitter.)
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Jun 23, 2020 10:12
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the escape goat posted:5 days seeming like an eternity is very much a common thing these days, friend. time is lopsided as hell in quarantine world. Yeah. One of the weirder things is I have like 5 years of great memories of interactions with Starr, Devlin, (S) Davis, (D) Dunne, Riddle, Smile, Havoc, Robbo, and loads of others named at live events. Basically in five days they've been turned into things I would rather not have happened. It's absolutely not the focus of this but it's an odd thing to process. Every show I've been to pretty much has had some sort of bully, rapist or creep on it.
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Jun 23, 2020 10:15
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Rarity posted:Again, a goon in this thread has made a number of swiftly deleted posts implying that ZSJ has skeletons in closet. If it happens, I'll be ready to throw him on the fire as quick as Starr. I just want to wait until it does before doing so. I crossed the rubicon of thinking people who I thought were good people couldn't get accused of and do these things a long time ago. The lead singer of my favorite active band, The Swans, whose projects I have been into for pushing on 30 years, and who I have seen on every tour for nearly a quarter of a century, got accused of rape a few years ago. I had the dumbass "no way it couldn't be him" response for a few hours. Luckily, I didn't post about it, and I got over that position by the next day. And, after him, I believe that it could be literally anybody.
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Jun 23, 2020 10:16
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collocation posted:That too. Basically, our voices as random dudes who haven't had issues, are really not needed here. (I actually got raped when I was 20, but I still don't have any perspective to add to the wrestling stuff other than that sucks, and people support you. And, realistically, wrestlers who are actually friends with talent who have been abused would seem way less grandstanding if they said that it in private, instead of on Twitter.) I'm sorry that happened dude. Yeah. I suppose you're right.
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Jun 23, 2020 10:18
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I mean, people spent an entire half-day viciously grilling AEW when they didn't immediately make a statement about the Sammy Guevara stuff, even though the story first came out overnight and it was clearly going to take at least several hours between Sammy talking to Sasha, Sammy talking to his bosses, his bosses consulting with HR/legal, AEW making a final decision, and AEW going public with that decision. As much as we want immediate closure on Twitter, due diligence takes time, for better or worse.
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Jun 23, 2020 10:19
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