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WhatEvil posted:Yeah. well if you think Moran as leader of the Lib Dems is going to be promoting left-wing topics in a general election campaign which is 4 years away then you have a lot more faith in her than I do
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Jun 23, 2020 18:23
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For some other social net things that the UK can be legitimately proud of there's the housing benefit, high tax-free allowance and high minimum wage (after it's been implemented over much gnashing of teeth, anyway). All of those are higher than almost everywhere else.
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Jun 23, 2020 18:26
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I missed the fact that they're scrapping the daily briefing glad the pandemic's over, mission accomplished
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Jun 23, 2020 18:29
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WhatEvil posted:Completely unrelated, but has anybody looked into whether it's possible to do an entryism on the Lib Dems to vote for Layla Moran? Or do they have join-date restrictions on voting? you have until 9th July to join and be able to take part. subs vary from £12 /year, but go as low as £6 /year if you're on benefits or under 26, or £1 /year for students. legally you must be on the electoral roll, so don't sign up as Mickey Mouse. Party rules forbid members of any other party signing up, as you'd expect. voting will take place from 30th July to 26th August. OMOV using ranked ballots, but with only two candidates that's a moot point. there's about 120k existing members, so you could swing it by signing up fewer people that have died from the covid
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Jun 23, 2020 18:30
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Private Speech posted:For some other social net things that the UK can be legitimately proud of there's the housing benefit, high tax-free allowance and high minimum wage (after it's been implemented over much gnashing of teeth, anyway). All of those are higher than almost everywhere else. Better than homelessness, worse than a housing bond.
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Jun 23, 2020 18:34
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XMNN posted:lol they've found where he works and already probably got his girlfriend sacked too chat poo poo get banged
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Jun 23, 2020 18:35
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moostaffa posted:chat poo poo get banged Sadly in this case it's chat poo poo, get sent to racial sensitivity training. https://twitter.com/solacefootcare/status/1275474959620550658
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Jun 23, 2020 18:43
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Jose posted:Just changed my virgin bill to about half of what it was to £69 a month "We can do you a deal here for £65" "Can... can you make it £69?" "Uh... ok" "Nice"
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Jun 23, 2020 18:44
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Rabbi Altmann and his secretary were sitting in a coffeehouse in Berlin in 1935. "Herr Altmann," said his secretary, "I notice you're reading Der Stürmer! I can't understand why. A Nazi libel sheet! Are you some kind of masochist, or, God forbid, a self-hating Jew?" "On the contrary, Frau Epstein. When I used to read the Jewish papers, all I learned about were pogroms, riots in Palestine, and assimilation in America. But now that I read Der Stürmer, I see so much more: that the Jews control all the banks, that we dominate in the arts, and that we're on the verge of taking over the entire world. You know – it makes me feel a whole lot better!" https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.c...ime-change.html
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Jun 23, 2020 18:48
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XMNN posted:I missed the fact that they're scrapping the daily briefing https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-antibody-idUSKBN23T1CJ There is no "herd immunity", and the Tories have murdered upwards of 50,000 people for nothing.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:04
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Getting sent on a course  That woman wasn't being racially insensitive she was voicing nazi opinions and hanging out with nazis
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Jun 23, 2020 19:15
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Private Speech posted:For some other social net things that the UK can be legitimately proud of there's the housing benefit, high tax-free allowance and high minimum wage (after it's been implemented over much gnashing of teeth, anyway). All of those are higher than almost everywhere else. Isn't high tax free allowance regressive? I'm sure someone on here explained why but I can't remember the details. The Tories have consistently increased the tax free allowance over the last 10 years, so I assume there must be something lovely about it Also lol at high minimum wage when it's not enough to live on
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Jun 23, 2020 19:17
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Jedit posted:https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-antibody-idUSKBN23T1CJ And the people who have survived have life limiting conditions as a result as well.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:18
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Tarnop posted:Isn't high tax free allowance regressive? I'm sure someone on here explained why but I can't remember the details. I don't really see how? I'm happy to be corrected on that point though. It's certainly odd that the Tories are so keen on it tbf. Could be just a "strivers vs skivers" thing. e: As for min wage UK has the fifth highest in the world. It might not be a huge amount to live on, but still. Especially when combined with the housing benefit, NHS and tax-free allowance, it's pretty great comparatively. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 19:19
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Private Speech posted:I don't really see how? I'm happy to be corrected on that point though. It's sort of regressive because everyone earning income gets that allowance even if they're a higher rate earner, so it's a tax cut for everyone above the old level meaning the very poorest don't benefit at all but the very richest do.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:26
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Tarnop posted:Isn't high tax free allowance regressive? I'm sure someone on here explained why but I can't remember the details. It's not a high tax free allowance that's regressive, it's raising it that is, because raising it doesn't help the people already under it.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:27
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namesake posted:It's sort of regressive because everyone earning income gets that allowance even if they're a higher rate earner, so it's a tax cut for everyone above the old level meaning the very poorest don't benefit at all but the very richest do. Isn't it effectively a 0% rate tax band though? I get the point about not helping anyone not working or in precarious employment.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:28
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Private Speech posted:Bit late reply because I was working, but yeah I agree with you in general terms. I'm not aware of all the healthcare systems in the world so I can't say how good the UK is internationally (though I imagine some of the more socialist countries may be better) which is why I didn't say it's better than all the others. Oh yeah, the services with the "silly" aspects can be fine, as the one in NL is (in my experience of 2 people who use it more than we'd like). I'm not out in the streets shouting in people's faces "what the hell is wrong with you, how can you live with this system, why aren't you rioting??" like I would be in the US. But while I don't feel there's an urgency for them to move to an NHS-style system, there's no need at all for the NHS to become more like theirs. We can achieve the same level of quality by funding it properly, and undoing some of the neoliberal nonsense (Yes Firefox, neoliberal is definitely a word  )Private Speech posted:
Yeah the NHS aspect is true, but while "min wage + housing benefit = OK" is kind of fine in theory, in practice it involves being yelled at by the government, tabloids and gammons that you shouldn't be doing that. Also I haven't run the numbers but I imagine minimum wage would be much better if housing wasn't insane. Tories can't bear the thought of housing becoming sane, therefore min wage needs to go up. VV yeah what he said Bobstar fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 19:39
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Private Speech posted:e: As for min wage UK has the fifth highest in the world. It might not be a huge amount to live on, but still. Especially when combined with the housing benefit, NHS and tax-free allowance, it's pretty great comparatively. that's great, now plot it against cost of living
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Jun 23, 2020 19:45
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Julio Cruz posted:that's great, now plot it against cost of living It's still pretty decent. The UK isn't cheap but even more expensive countries with supposedly "strong" social systems like New Zealand or Canada or France or whatever are considerably worse in that metric, especially if you take the other things I've mentioned into account.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:50
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re: intelligence services creating terrorists and "terrorists" to justify their own existence; I was reading the Hyde park Wikipedia page and it mentioned that Benedict xvi did some sort of church concert there and the met arrested a bunch of street cleaners who were plotting an assassination attempt, and it's a bizarre (well not that bizarre, the met are racists) story apologies for the mail as a source but I could only find this article following up on the arrests, which were quite widely covered when for some reason the aftermath wasn't. there's one from the mirror that is mentioned but I couldn't find, and the BBC one is referred to as just saying they "didn't pose a credible threat" so I suspect they omitted anything that might be embarrassing to the British establishment [quote="Freed terror suspects may sue police for false arrest over alleged plot to attack the Pope "] Six street cleaners arrested over an alleged plot to attack the Pope could try to sue the police after being released without charge, detectives fear. The men were detained by counter-terrorism officers at a cleaning depot in central London after police received intelligence suggesting they were planning an atrocity against Benedict XVI But late on Saturday they were freed after police found no evidence to support their initial suspicions. It was reported that the men – all of North African origin – were arrested after jokingly discussing how to harm the Pope in a work canteen. A colleague is said to have overheard their comments and alerted counter-terrorism officers. The concern among senior officers and counter terrorism officials is that the men could try to take legal action against the Met for unlawful arrest and detention. For such a move to be successful, they would have to prove that the actions of officers were disproportionate and ill-informed, and the evidence available did not reach the threshold of reasonable suspicion to merit their arrests. A security source said: ‘The intelligence which prompted these arrests was received very late in the day and detectives had only a few hours to assess the quality of it before taking action. ‘As far as the Met are concerned, the arrests were proportionate and justified, but there is a strong feeling that the legal-aid vultures will soon be circling around this case.’ Security sources dismissed reports that the men had merely had a light-hearted conversation about attacking the Pope. One said: ‘We do not recognise this version of events. The intelligence received suggested this was a very serious situation.’ As part of the investigation, police searched eight homes in north and east London and two business premises in central London, including the street cleaning depot. The Met said the searches had revealed no weapons or suspicious materials. The BBC quoted Scotland Yard sources as saying that the men posed no credible threat, while the Sunday Mirror said the men had been reported after they were overheard sharing a joke in their canteen. One of the men reportedly said: ‘It would be pretty difficult to shoot the Pope, wouldn’t it, as his car is bulletproof?’ Another allegedly replied: ‘Yeah but I bet an RPG (rocket propelled grenade) would get through easily enough.’ The six are aged 26, 27, 29, 36, 40 and 50. The 29-year-old was arrested at home in north London shortly before 2pm on Friday. The five others had been held at gunpoint as officers swooped on their base while they were preparing to start their shift shortly before 6am. They work for Veolia Environmental Services, a contractor which employs 650 on-street staff to keep the streets of Westminster clean. A huge security and public order operation swung into action as the Pope arrived in Britain. Thousands of officers were involved in the operation from forces including the Met, Strathclyde, Lothian and Borders, West Midlands and British Transport Police. The cost of policing the papal visit, coordinated by South Yorkshire Chief Constable Meredydd Hughes, will exceed £3million. A Metropolitan Police spokesman yesterday said: ‘Six men who were arrested under the Terrorism Act 2000 on Friday were all released without charge late on Saturday night and early this morning.’ [/quote] obv anonymous sources are potentially bullshit but I can totally believe that the police/mi5 refused to admit any wrongdoing because they're cunts XMNN fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 19:54
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Terrorism Act 2000 is not my favourite program honestly.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:57
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I'm not sure if I am praising the UK or condemning it anymore, since it started by me talking down the NHS. It's still kinda garbage but then so is most of the world, embrace hellworld 2020.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:59
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If you want proof of structural racism in the UK, it's that half a dozen African lads can't even have a lighthearted chat about killing the Pope, whereas Sammy Wilson gets to be an MP.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:59
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Guavanaut posted:If you want proof of structural racism in the UK, it's that half a dozen African lads can't even have a lighthearted chat about killing the Pope, whereas Sammy Wilson gets to be an MP. lol
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Jun 23, 2020 20:04
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She does get an edjumacation in the thread. https://twitter.com/theangiestanton/status/1275476850836455424?s=20 Ed: oh it's gone. It was a woman (a republican candidate for Senate or something) saying something along the lines of: "pull down statues of Mohamed and see how far you get". Obviously clueless. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 20:38
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 How do these people?
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Jun 23, 2020 20:41
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Private Speech posted:I don't really see how? I'm happy to be corrected on that point though. A better comparison is to plot minimum wage against median wage, since it reflects how minimum wage workers do compared to 'average' workers better. Here's a graph to that extend [from the economist arguing against raising it lol]  The issue is that as the cost of labour has gone up, companies have found various tricks to minimize cost - zero-hour contracts, outsourcing to shell companies, fake 'self-employed' etc. But if you are over 25 and have a stable job giving you 40 hours a week at minimum wage, your takehome is around £ 1,300 a month - Which can be perfectly fine depending on your housing costs. Compared to most countries, it's extremely generous on paper.
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Jun 23, 2020 21:48
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Nothingtoseehere posted:A better comparison is to plot minimum wage against median wage, since it reflects how minimum wage workers do compared to 'average' workers better. It's better than plotting against average wage obviously but I've never understood why there's any point plotting against median wage either, if the argument against poverty wages is still tacitly 'get a better job/move' then as a logical neccessity those living standards are the only meaningful data point. If as a society we've accepted that those jobs need to be done and we've agreed the recompense for the work then there's no wriggling out of it, those roles are essential, legitimate work and the living standards of those workers should be the baseline, if the 'average' or the 'median' earns more then cool those people can go on holidays or start a Space Marine army, I genuinely don't understand why any arbitrary metric except the poorest on-the-books workers is actually relevant in the slightest. Sure it's been pointed out but the reopening oh-so-coincidentally being the 4th of July gives me a deep sense of dread this is a loving Breitbart government. Vitamin P fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 22:10
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Apparently the government contrived to lose a vote today despite their 80 majority? https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/06/perfect-storm-causes-boris-johnson-s-first-parliamentary-defeat-election
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Jun 23, 2020 22:46
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The UK managed to set up some genuinely good or at least fit-for-purpose systems during periods of Labour governance (Real Lab that is, not Blair), and surprise surprise they work so well, are so cost-effective, and so popular even in imperfect form that must operate within the neoliberal structure that they've been extremely difficult to root out despite decades of effort going into it. So it's hardly surprising that even now amidst the ruins there's still good stuff in there. The sharpest problems are often - not always, but often - more in the awarding, means-testing, bureaucracy turned to evil ends, and general mistrust of the citizenry. When my parents and I get what we're due we're comfortable, not well off by any stretch of the imagination, but also not going hungry or in danger of eviction or having to choose between heating and eating. The issue for us is less in the amount and more in the fact that winning what we're due is always such a massive, stressful slog, there's a constant fear of being denied/having it taken away and having to fight for it, and it rolls back around every couple of years. Not that my experience is the only one out there of course, there's problems of all kinds, but a lot would be solved if the government's attitude wasn't "Anyone claiming disability/JSA is almost certainly a chancer and we will implement trial by ordeal".
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Jun 23, 2020 22:50
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sebzilla posted:Apparently the government contrived to lose a vote today despite their 80 majority?  Is there any other example of a majority of that size being defeated on a vote just a few months after winning their election? Even close?
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Jun 23, 2020 22:56
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ok i don't know what the precise limit to how much Posting About Graham Linehan the thread can take but i just wanted to share this wonderful clip where Graham complains about how Google is pushing the trans agenda by not promoting the three or so flawed studies that terfs trot out every time they need a sciencey-looking number, and instead showing studies that must be wrong because they show being trans is a thing, actually https://twitter.com/joss_prior/status/1275425411929968641 this is the high standard of scientific research in the transphobe community. rigorous and brilliant e: as a bonus, here is a trans writer being accused of writing paedophilic fantasies because she used the word "quince" https://twitter.com/graceelavery/status/1275194074690129920 Angepain fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 22:56
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sebzilla posted:Apparently the government contrived to lose a vote today despite their 80 majority? This... seems huge? That's a massive margin to lose a vote by, especially for a party with as big a majority as his. I do wonder whether remote voting makes it easier for people to vote with their conscience given there's no whips bullying you into joining the right queue...
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Jun 23, 2020 22:56
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Angepain posted:e: as a bonus, here is a trans writer being accused of writing paedophilic fantasies because she used the word "quince" Quince is... either a colour or a food I think? Reminds me of something I read where someone accused someone of being pedagoguical and got written up to HR because they thought they accused them of noncing.
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Jun 23, 2020 23:01
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Angepain posted:ok i don't know what the precise limit to how much Posting About Graham Linehan the thread can take but i just wanted to share this wonderful clip where Graham complains about how Google is pushing the trans agenda by not promoting the three or so flawed studies that terfs trot out every time they need a sciencey-looking number, and instead showing studies that must be wrong because they show being trans is a thing, actually
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Jun 23, 2020 23:05
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OwlFancier posted:Quince is... either a colour or a food I think? A well-known literary examination into unnatural relationships in sea-faring populations describes it as consumed with a "runcible spoon", which is presumably some kind of sex toy
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Jun 23, 2020 23:07
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Banksy Crayon Boy: OwlFancier posted:Quince is... either a colour or a food I think? Not sure if you are being serious - quince is a food, sort of like a pear. Appropriate that you should comment: The owl & the pussycat went to sea... dined on mince and slices of quince which they ate with a runcible* spoon ..... *sort of like a spork Ed: beaten by Angepain above. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 23:10
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Angepain posted:ok i don't know what the precise limit to how much Posting About Graham Linehan the thread can take but i just wanted to share this wonderful clip where Graham complains about how Google is pushing the trans agenda by not promoting the three or so flawed studies that terfs trot out every time they need a sciencey-looking number, and instead showing studies that must be wrong because they show being trans is a thing, actually at the woman saying "you literally need to know the name of the person doing the study and the year and the university that it happened to cite a study."gently caress me This is why I hate with a passion the circle debate of clueless fucks format. Like call me a transmedicalist if you will, but I'd 100% rather learn from a lecture like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4QM8xkEO6k and the cited studies in the notes or lecture than three asshats with a history of *checks citations* editing the magazine at Catholic University School Dublin and writing some sitcoms and a loving idiot* discussing something between themselves. *Citation: Arty Morty, Fuckwit Study** (2020) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA6_WgzQt-0 **I watched about three minutes before I couldn't, thus proving that I am the intolerant one and have lost at Rational Debate. OwlFancier posted:Quince is... either a colour or a food I think?
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Jun 23, 2020 23:11
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Guavanaut posted:I'm literally loving I haven't watched the video (and never will) but is she saying this in the sort of exasperated tone that would indicate she thinks this is too high a bar to clear?
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Jun 23, 2020 23:14
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