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Arcsquad12 posted:Degenerates like him belong on a cross. 
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Jun 21, 2020 19:24
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Every time that I play New Vegas one of the things that makes me  is the attempt to turn the Great Khans into some kind of Native American Peoples stand in. It doesn't make any sense and even the fan wiki has a hard time piecing together the throughline between 'band of assholes who go full Jack post Vault' to 'other band of assholes hiding out in the original vault' to 'noble savage indigenous people with their own culture and traditions and also lots and lost of drug running'. I think the reveal of Bitter Springs and the tragedy around it would have packed a lot more of a punch and made it harder to support the NCR in the Mojave if the people massacred weren't, y'know, raider scumfucks who the player avatar has been fighting in all three of the West Coast Fallout games. But I guess then it wouldn't have been a reference to a previous game and apparently you need to have more of those. EDIT: Bitter Springs could have even been survivors/descendants of the Arroyo tribe, really.
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Jun 23, 2020 20:26
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Truth is ...I was a sext pest from the start.
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Jun 23, 2020 20:46
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omg chael crash posted:Truth is ...I was a sext pest from the start.
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Jun 23, 2020 21:25
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And like Dead Moneys sorta misery porn when it comes to Christine was pretty telling too
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Jun 23, 2020 21:27
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Everyone who touched the Sierra Madre had a cursed life. Sinclair, Vera, Dean, Dog, Christine, Elijah. Ulysses had it right. He was willing to excavate the radioactive wastes of the Divide, but only an idiot would ever go to the Sierra Madre.
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Jun 23, 2020 22:29
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oh jay posted:Everyone who touched the Sierra Madre had a cursed life. Sinclair, Vera, Dean, Dog, Christine, Elijah. Getting there is not the hard part.
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Jun 23, 2020 22:34
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NorgLyle posted:Every time that I play New Vegas one of the things that makes me Thats a great point! I think they were trying to humanize the Great Khans whereas before like you said they were just raiders but the whole atrocity of Bitter Springs gets muddled a bit because of it.
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Jun 23, 2020 22:51
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I like the Great Khans 
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Jun 23, 2020 22:54
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oh jay posted:Everyone who touched the Sierra Madre had a cursed life. Sinclair, Vera, Dean, Dog, Christine, Elijah. You'll have to speak up, I can't hear you over the sound of this kickass pump-action laser rifle and endless supply of weapon repair kits that I made from a pile of old clothes and cigarettes.
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Jun 23, 2020 22:55
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Randaconda posted:I like the Great Khans I do too but I think NorgLyle has a point
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Jun 23, 2020 23:00
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Man, I kind of wish I'd never known that poo poo about Avellone, but now that I do I hope the fucker gets what's coming to him Turns out you don't have to meet your heroes to be disappointed in them.
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Jun 23, 2020 23:08
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CommissarMega posted:Man, I kind of wish I'd never known that poo poo about Avellone, but now that I do I hope the fucker gets what's coming to him My guess: he'll be shamed out of the industry for a year or three and then slowly worm his way back in to the point where it will be like nothing happened. The Louis CK approach.
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Jun 23, 2020 23:18
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Considering how thin skinned "prestige" writers in the games industry have recently been with Druckmann getting all huffy about people mocking the Schindler's List comparison, I'd sooner expect to see them circling the wagons than ousting a known quantity like Avellone. Names and brands are what a lot of game companies run on, so I can guess we'll see a response of the worst kind in the near future with a "sorry you feel that way" non apology.
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Jun 23, 2020 23:27
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Slowpoke Rodriguez posted:Getting there is not the hard part.
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Jun 23, 2020 23:28
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Arcsquad12 posted:Considering how thin skinned "prestige" writers in the games industry have recently been with Druckmann getting all huffy about people mocking the Schindler's List comparison, I'd sooner expect to see them circling the wagons than ousting a known quantity like Avellone. Names and brands are what a lot of game companies run on, so I can guess we'll see a response of the worst kind in the near future with a "sorry you feel that way" non apology. Three studios have already cut ties with Avellone, so he's definitely not getting through this unscathed (of course he was probably already paid for all that). But definitely wouldn't be surprised to see an apology tour followed by Avellone getting more work now that it's all "been addressed."
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Jun 23, 2020 23:39
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Randaconda posted:I like the Great Khans
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Jun 24, 2020 01:06
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Idk that Khan kid who just wanted to do poetry seemed alright
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Jun 24, 2020 02:15
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NorgLyle posted:I like the tribe in New Vegas a lot and I enjoy their content. I don't get why they wanted to link them to the guys who kidnapped Tandi and menaced Shady Sands, though (outside of just a 'hey I remember that from the first game' thing). Ostensible bad guys who may in fact have a complicated reason for being seen as amoral/bad, and who might actually be good despite their predecessors' atrocities, is exactly the kind of grey-area approach we should probably expect from a team who understands nuance. I know it's cool to poo poo on Obsidian now for Outer Worlds but hues of grey is something the New Vegas writers really understood, and that sort of holistic approach to a person's or people's value is very hard to find right now. Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Jun 24, 2020 |
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Jun 24, 2020 02:21
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NorgLyle posted:I like the tribe in New Vegas a lot and I enjoy their content. I don't get why they wanted to link them to the guys who kidnapped Tandi and menaced Shady Sands, though (outside of just a 'hey I remember that from the first game' thing). hey remember that group that might have more depth than the dudes you just get to murder
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Jun 24, 2020 08:34
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I remember going to rescue Tandi and getting shot in the back by Ian in the first round of combat. Which was a good introduction to the game
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Jun 24, 2020 08:47
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One of the interesting things that this discussion has made me realize is that there are actually a lot of parallels between the Great Khans and Caesar's Legion and I wonder if that is intentional. They're both large disparate groups pulled together by a single charismatic leader who leads them out of their original homelands and into the Mojave. They're both united under an older flag that the leader thinks they understand and see as a way of unifying their followers from all sorts of different backgrounds. And they both run afoul of the NCR and, if you complete Eureka!, likely end up in a very similar situation moving into the future. Huh.
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Jun 24, 2020 13:32
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War... war never changes.
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Jun 25, 2020 01:02
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I gotta say though, it totally makes sense for a group to create a whole ethnic identity and culture over a period of 200 years. There have been ethnic groups that have formed in less time than that in real life.
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Jun 25, 2020 01:13
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Jamie Faith posted:
I think it's a question of how bad people have to be before you decide they aren't worth basic human decency. The Khans have been raiders in the past, and now work the chems trade. So it's fine to shoot non-combatants at Bitter Springs and herd them on to reservations? If you follow the NCR path and don't get the Khans to leave the region that is exactly what the NCR will do to them. Does their past as raiders justify that?
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Jun 25, 2020 01:33
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Servetus posted:Does their past as raiders justify that? Bitter-Root tells you about his father taking him along to murder NCR people. It’s not a thing of their past. The Khans as a group are a bunch of raiders.
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Jun 25, 2020 02:07
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I have to admit that even in FO1 and FO2 I never envisioned the Khans wearing horn helmets. Those things are cornier than any of the Legion signifiers, IMO. For all its Latin and football pad armor, the Legion tracks as singularly weird and deranged, whereas there’s still just a whiff of the “tribal” affectation to the Khans that doesn’t quite sit right.
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Jun 25, 2020 02:14
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Raygereio posted:Papa Khan himself tells you that the Khans were raiding NCR civilians and were ignoring demands from the NCR to stop. The thing is being an NCR settler sometimes involves sticking the flag above the only water source for days and murdering any locals ("raiders!") who try to use their own water supply for not being NCR citizens; talk to Chief Hanlon about that. Anyway the discussion upthread was about the Khans' actions back in the old Fallout games. The horned helmets are very silly though. Edit: I'm not being very clear. Basically what the Khans were doing to Shady Sands back in Fallout 1 was unprovoked aggression; but I have a hard time condemning any group for wanting to defend themselves against NCR given what we know about the NCR's expansion. So I don't see the title of "raider" as automatically worse than being a soldier of an expansionist and imperialist state. Servetus fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Jun 25, 2020 |
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Jun 25, 2020 02:19
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Basic Chunnel posted:I have to admit that even in FO1 and FO2 I never envisioned the Khans wearing horn helmets. Those things are cornier than any of the Legion signifiers, IMO. For all its Latin and football pad armor, the Legion tracks as singularly weird and deranged, whereas there’s still just a whiff of the “tribal” affectation to the Khans that doesn’t quite sit right.
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Jun 25, 2020 02:34
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The horned helmets are an affectation. A major theme of F:NV is "recreating the new world in the image of the old", with many factions, major and minor, adopting the aesthetics and traditions of a dead culture in an effort to find a new place in the world.
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Jun 25, 2020 02:37
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Mr House is born today.
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Jun 25, 2020 07:07
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Basic Chunnel posted:I have to admit that even in FO1 and FO2 I never envisioned the Khans wearing horn helmets. Those things are cornier than any of the Legion signifiers, IMO. For all its Latin and football pad armor, the Legion tracks as singularly weird and deranged, whereas there’s still just a whiff of the “tribal” affectation to the Khans that doesn’t quite sit right. The khans really don't have a great idea of who they should be, at this point in the story. They're susceptible to suggestion, and have some good internal conflict over the matter. That's part of what makes their interaction with the legion interesting, because they do have strong parallels but also strong contrasts. Legion is perfectly happy to solve their dilemma by eating them up and entirely destroying whatever culture they had or thought they had or thought they wanted.
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Jun 25, 2020 07:57
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one of the things about the death throes of something awful that makes me sad is I won't have this space to talk about a decade old game that I play all the time anyhow any more
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Jun 25, 2020 09:54
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Byzantine posted:Mr House is born today. No wonder he’s so nuts
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Jun 25, 2020 13:09
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https://twitter.com/JuiceHead33/status/1276122972948840448?s=20
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Jun 25, 2020 13:27
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I really like the good karma Mr. House ending, probably my second favorite after good karma wild card
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Jun 25, 2020 13:35
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happy birthday to this future leader of humanity 
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Jun 25, 2020 15:57
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Man House must be hell of easy to buy for, just grab him any tatty Snowglobe with a vague theme and he's happy.
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Jun 25, 2020 16:04
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I'm going to try to be active on BNR, so if anyone wants to make a F:NV thread over there, I will try to answer any dev-related questions that come up. You can still always ask at my tumblr, as well: https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/
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Jun 25, 2020 19:57
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 12:45 |
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rope kid posted:I'm going to try to be active on BNR, so if anyone wants to make a F:NV thread over there, I will try to answer any dev-related questions that come up. Thanks for everything. Really, you're my favorite game developer, and I still have a lot of affection for Kojima, so that's a hard contest to win. Also: (INT 3) What's Be En Arr? Aoi fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jun 25, 2020 |
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Jun 25, 2020 20:05
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