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Moving away from the Labour Party are a worthless shitshow, embrace anarchism now thing for a bit to go back to the forum we post on. I know people are hopeful about the future after Jeffrey's announcement last night but I'd not quit the Discord yet. A lot of it is still quite obviously in the air. Nothing is signed & sealed, you're relying on Lowtax doing something which as far the forums go isn't something you've really been able to rely on in well over a decade.
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Jun 26, 2020 12:42
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I already knew it was inquisitor neckbeard before clicking.
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Jun 26, 2020 12:45
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forkboy84 posted:Moving away from the Labour Party are a worthless shitshow, embrace anarchism now thing for a bit to go back to the forum we post on. I'm also being deliberately ambiguous as to which part of your post I'm referring to.
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Jun 26, 2020 12:48
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Breath Ray posted:whats your take on the costa rican model? centre left, full democracy (mandatory but not enforced voting), poor but not cuba poor and near the top of some happiness surveys. it does have the usual adverse effects of tourism with foreigners pricing out locals but appears to be trying to develop sustainably hot take time the secret to Costa Rica's relative success is threefold: #1 - having lots of undeveloped land even by the mid-20th century. The peasant land reform question that grips much of Latin America never arises because the country simply deforests much of itself to create more arable land, and only sets out to reverse it after it becomes wealthier. The swing is staggering:  it is this - more than anything else - that explains why Costa Rica does not become Guatemala. It's much easier to call for a moderate center-left pragmatic approach when it's inexpensive to avoid rural starvation #2 - not succumbing to the temptation to pick sides during the Cold War; throughout it remains carefully aligned with the dominant US (largely rejecting Soviet aid), but not to the point of engaging in struggle with Soviet-aligned neighbour Nicaragua either. This pragmatism is seen in e.g. hosting the Sandinistas in Costa Rica before they took power and then hosting the Contras after as well. This relative detachment itself is due to #1 allowing a for a relatively low-stakes politics #3 - neoliberalising rapidly as the Great Commodities Depression of the 1980s bit, following the free trade zone model, rather than fruitlessly (heh) seeking to defend the viability of bananas and coffee and beef. This is itself due to a relatively successful rural wealth buffer bought by #1 Due to the role of factor #1 it's not really generalizable either, but maybe some lessons can be taken... ronya fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Jun 26, 2020 |
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Jun 26, 2020 12:52
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https://twitter.com/garius/status/1276474611648036866 Of Flegs and Plens.
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Jun 26, 2020 13:02
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I don't know why anyone is expected any SCG labour MPs to do anything other than bide their time. Their leading lights are those who stuck to their guns during the whole of Tony Blair. And as Ronya pointed out, the most viable path for the Left back into prominence is let starmer dig a hole till they can call s leadership election behind a figurehead and try to takr back control of the party before the next election. Resigning may fit your moral purity, but it's not going to increase chances of a left wing labour party heading into the next election.
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Jun 26, 2020 13:08
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ronya posted:hot take time Given your recent posts, I have been thinkimg recently that liberal democracy only seems to be able to function when there's a surplus from economic growth to redistribute - when it comes to extended periods of stagnation it seems to come under attack from to nationalism or socialism.
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Jun 26, 2020 13:11
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ronya posted:hot take time When you say "It's much easier to call for a moderate center-left pragmatic approach when it's inexpensive to avoid rural starvation" I assume this is implying that it would have to move politically right if it wasn't inexpensive? How would this help? Feeding the populace via hopefully cheap trade? If so I understand that but it seems like it'd be a precarious situation of its own. Because it seems like the populace lives or dies by the government on the left, or by foreign trade on the right. And I can see more people falling through the cracks on the right.
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Jun 26, 2020 13:12
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Nothingtoseehere posted:I don't know why anyone is expected any SCG labour MPs to do anything other than bide their time. Their leading lights are those who stuck to their guns during the whole of Tony Blair. And as Ronya pointed out, the most viable path for the Left back into prominence is let starmer dig a hole till they can call s leadership election behind a figurehead and try to takr back control of the party before the next election. Resigning may fit your moral purity, but it's not going to increase chances of a left wing labour party heading into the next election. Staying isn't going to do it either. There's not going t be a left wing labour party heading into the next election, or the one after that or the one after that. It took 32 years to get from the fallout of Foot in '83 to Corbyn winning in '15. You're kidding if it'll be less than 2 decades before we get anywhere near power in the Labour Party again without making a case for why the leadership should listen to us. And no, for the sake of clarity I did not expect them to do anything but the most pissweak statement. Still can be disappointed that they did the inevitable.
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Jun 26, 2020 13:12
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Breath Ray posted:whats your take on the costa rican model? centre left, full democracy (mandatory but not enforced voting), poor but not cuba poor and near the top of some happiness surveys. it does have the usual adverse effects of tourism with foreigners pricing out locals but appears to be trying to develop sustainably A young male relative of mine was in a relationship with a Costa Rican woman (in Costa Rica - he was there). I'm not sure it's great for women from what he described - seems rather 'middle eastern' in outlook particularly with regard to the role of Mothers (and prospective Mothers in Law).
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Jun 26, 2020 13:14
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Regarde Aduck posted:When you say "It's much easier to call for a moderate center-left pragmatic approach when it's inexpensive to avoid rural starvation" I assume this is implying that it would have to move politically right if it wasn't inexpensive? How would this help? Feeding the populace via hopefully cheap trade? If so I understand that but it seems like it'd be a precarious situation of its own. Because it seems like the populace lives or dies by the government on the left, or by foreign trade on the right. And I can see more people falling through the cracks on the right. It could also move politically far left. Either way it would have a vicious fight on its hands. Whilst vicious fighting may entail bloody justice in the end (one hopes), it is very certainly is not favourable for attempting to quietly grow at 5% per year whilst it lasts. And in the Cold War global context there was no shortage of superpowers hoping to leverage a domestic struggle into a geopolitical advantage. Authoritarian center-right governments like Korea's Park and Taiwan's Chiang also pursued land reform - it was hardly the monopoly of the center-left - but these were also subject to sui generis factors like "having lots of formerly Japanese-collaborator land to hand out". This doesn't mean that good government could be assumed, just that it was a great deal easier than it would have otherwise been. Land reform doesn't have to last forever, it just needs to buy a couple of decades until industrialisation and urbanization can make themselves felt. Ultimately the goal is not for the great masses of the people to become smallholders, but for their children not to be. ronya fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Jun 26, 2020 |
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Jun 26, 2020 13:23
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Given your recent posts, I have been thinkimg recently that liberal democracy only seems to be able to function when there's a surplus from economic growth to redistribute - when it comes to extended periods of stagnation it seems to come under attack from to nationalism or socialism. liberalism begets capitalism, capitalism begets nationalism, nationalism begets revolution, revolution begets socialism, socialism begets liberalism, and so the merry cycle continues.
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Jun 26, 2020 13:27
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forkboy84 posted:I know people are hopeful about the future after Jeffrey's announcement last night but I'd not quit the Discord yet.
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Jun 26, 2020 13:31
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Nothingtoseehere posted:I don't know why anyone is expected any SCG labour MPs to do anything other than bide their time. Their leading lights are those who stuck to their guns during the whole of Tony Blair. And as Ronya pointed out, the most viable path for the Left back into prominence is let starmer dig a hole till they can call s leadership election behind a figurehead and try to takr back control of the party before the next election. Resigning may fit your moral purity, but it's not going to increase chances of a left wing labour party heading into the next election. No, they should leave so we can finally achieve the dream of no socialists in parliament whatsoever.
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Jun 26, 2020 13:35
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Strom Cuzewon posted:I would maybe buy the accusations of singling out Israel if the context in the article wasn't "and this is a global problem, for example Israel does....". You hve to be profoundly disingenuous to turn that into singling out Israel. There's talking heads drawing comparisons with blood libel for fucks sake! The antisemitism accusations are based on the specific wording where Peake suggests that US police were taught the kneeling technique by the Israeli secret services. I think that suggestion is problematic as it's essentially unprovable and the US police don't need lessons from anyone else on barbaric practices. It's certainly valid to point out the similarities between the police treatment of minorities in both countries, and indeed policing across the world (including Israel!). Obviously, the subsequent reaction shows that they were just looking for any excuse to get rid of RLB but, well, quelle surprise.
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Jun 26, 2020 13:36
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It's becoming increasingly hard to imagine that the labour left would be willing to back a leadership challenge to starmer.
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Jun 26, 2020 13:44
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I mean, the other side of the center-left moderate scissors is that Costa Rica is also standout in how much it doesn't confront the large landowners in its land reform programme, especially relative to the rest of Latin America. Costa Rican land reform bought out concentrated landowners at market rate since the 1960s - no revolution, not even any "we'll pay but at a discounted rate only", not even coercion (sales were voluntary). (again - because it could pay for it by converting half the entire country's landmass to farms and then export vast quantities of fruit, coffee, beef, etc. to much richer+industrialised neighbours, and thus have the revenue to engage in the least confrontational way to dismantle concentrating land ownership. If it had already all been farms and plantations, then this option would not have been possible)
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Jun 26, 2020 13:44
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ronya posted:I mean, the other side of the center-left moderate scissors is that Costa Rica is also standout in how much it doesn't confront the large landowners in its land reform programme, especially relative to the rest of Latin America. Costa Rican land reform bought out concentrated landowners at market rate since the 1960s - no revolution, not even any "we'll pay but at a discounted rate only", not even coercion (sales were voluntary). That's pretty much exactly how I play Tropico. Have they built a single power station just to power a casino and a hospital, too?
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Jun 26, 2020 13:50
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still too fuckin hot
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Jun 26, 2020 13:50
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goddamnedtwisto posted:That's pretty much exactly how I play Tropico. Have they built a single power station just to power a casino and a hospital, too? Everyone knows the best way to win tropico is to cover the entire island in banks which print money out of thin air. Also works in real life too.
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Jun 26, 2020 13:51
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bump_fn posted:still too fuckin hot 
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Jun 26, 2020 13:55
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:A young male relative of mine was in a relationship with a Costa Rican woman (in Costa Rica - he was there). I'm not sure it's great for women from what he described - seems rather 'middle eastern' in outlook particularly with regard to the role of Mothers (and prospective Mothers in Law). Costa Rica is interesting, It has a huge number of American expats who have driven prices up all over, and many of them are horrible. It has a massive crime problem. In the five years that I lived there I personally knew three people who had home invasions in which they were tied up at gunpoint while a gang emptied the whole house. On the other hand when I first went exploring San Jose with my two year old daughter in a backpack a very nice toothless crackhead escorted us out of Barrio Mexico whilst explaining that it wasn't quite the place. A lot of the Central Valley is pretty wealthy, or at least not poor, but when you get off the beaten track there is really grim poverty. Also they have a brand of Whisky called Black Cock. it has a Ptarmigan on the bottle Jaeluni, did your relative go to school there?
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Jun 26, 2020 13:57
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My eyes can confirm that most Brits are not hot.
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Jun 26, 2020 14:00
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OwlFancier posted:It's becoming increasingly hard to imagine that the labour left would be willing to back a leadership challenge to starmer. Judging from my Corbynist CLP at any rate there are far too many 'we must give him a chance' lefties for anything to be done. There is still suppressed seething about the leaked report, but it wouldn't take many token sackings to calm that down.
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Jun 26, 2020 14:02
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yaffle posted:Costa Rica is interesting, It has a huge number of American expats who have driven prices up all over, and many of them are horrible. It has a massive crime problem. In the five years that I lived there I personally knew three people who had home invasions in which they were tied up at gunpoint while a gang emptied the whole house. On the other hand when I first went exploring San Jose with my two year old daughter in a backpack a very nice toothless crackhead escorted us out of Barrio Mexico whilst explaining that it wasn't quite the place. No he was on some kind of project in the jungle (don't ask me what!)
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Jun 26, 2020 14:03
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https://twitter.com/search?q=glasgow&src=recent_search_click Not sure what's gone on but can't be good
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Jun 26, 2020 14:04
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https://twitter.com/socialistcam/status/1276485802034429952?s=20 Waste of time.
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Jun 26, 2020 14:09
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Morrisons do 500ml soy ice-creams for 80p and the strawberry one is fantastic and saving my life throughout this hot and humid day Where the gently caress are the storms I was promised
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Jun 26, 2020 14:10
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Julio Cruz posted:George the Poet is good, I have no idea who Iona Bain is but as a "finance blogger" I assume she's some sort of capitalism booster, and seriously gently caress ever listening to anything the other three have to say I googled her blog and one entry starts "lenin once said" so she's either very good or very very bad, probably no chance of middle ground.
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Jun 26, 2020 14:13
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c0burn posted:https://twitter.com/search?q=glasgow&src=recent_search_click Sounds grim 3 dead? 6 dead? God I hate the way Twitter spreads rumours.
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Jun 26, 2020 14:15
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Jose posted:shocking that the tory run EHRC would do this And how many people just don't care anyway?
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Jun 26, 2020 14:15
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sebzilla posted:Ah, thanks man! I forgot that was out today. New album is great.
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Jun 26, 2020 14:16
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forkboy84 posted:Sounds grim 3 dead? 6 dead? God I hate the way Twitter spreads rumours. https://twitter.com/ScotsPolFed/status/1276504453814857730?s=19 Police officer has been stabbed for sure
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Jun 26, 2020 14:20
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did you just call me british you sonovabitch
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Jun 26, 2020 14:21
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c0burn posted:https://twitter.com/ScotsPolFed/status/1276504453814857730?s=19 Sucks it's happened but especially in Glasgow
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Jun 26, 2020 14:21
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goddamnedtwisto posted:That's pretty much exactly how I play Tropico. Have they built a single power station just to power a casino and a hospital, too? some of its post-liberalisation Free Trade Zone Regime niches are medical devices and online gambling, so.... uh, kinda? Unironically?
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Jun 26, 2020 14:24
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I don't know, I feel like some people are too determined to attack them, them not jumping ship right away doesn't mean they aren't going to do anything, there is value in talking before doing something irreversible. It will be a disappointing if they do nothing, but I think it's too soon to presume that's all they'll do.
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Jun 26, 2020 14:25
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bump_fn posted:did you just call me british you sonovabitch  Oops. Sorry! I take it all back
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Jun 26, 2020 14:27
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Yvonmukluk posted:I didn't realise this was your band! I was going to attend one of your shows in Cheltenham a few years back. Unfortunately my wipers stopped working the night of and it decided to piss it down so I couldn't make it. Hopefully next time you're round that way I'll be able to make it. Hey, thanks! We were supposed to be playing shows back in March but, you know, the virus, so it's all on hold for now. Will definitely be doing something when venues are open again.
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Jun 26, 2020 14:28
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https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18544502.armed-police-respond-west-george-street-ibis-hotel-incident-amid-alleged-terrorist-attack/ sorry for not copying pasting I'm on a thrilling seminar on number theory. https://news.sky.com/story/armed-police-deployed-after-several-injured-in-serious-incident-in-glasgow-12015385
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Jun 26, 2020 14:29
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