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Nurge posted:Maybe they would but I still stand by my statement that they're very broken people. It's easy to say kill all pigs on the internet or even yell it at your starbucks, but actually seeing it is not something most people could stomach, for a good reason. Again, what makes you think that? There have been violent uprisings against authorities all throughout history. In Russia, people identified people their own neighbours as counter-revolutionaries to be killed. In China, landlords were dragged into the street and tortured, even buried alive. There's a reason people talk about guillotines right now. I'm not saying this is the majority of people or even the majority of posters. But I'd wager there are absolutely plenty of people who would watch a cop burn to death and do nothing about it. That's where the situation is, and the cops haven't really done anything to help that.
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Jun 23, 2020 23:59
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Nurge posted:Holy gently caress. How did they not alert the EMTs when they found her unconscious with no other hazards in the apartment? That's some heinous bullshit. Who needs EMTs? She was quite a capable brute. Did you see the way she dragged the young woman down the hall like a sack of potatoes?
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Jun 23, 2020 23:59
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CelestialScribe posted:Again, what makes you think that? There have been violent uprisings against authorities all throughout history. In Russia, people identified people their own neighbours as counter-revolutionaries to be killed. In China, landlords were dragged into the street and tortured, even buried alive. There's a reason people talk about guillotines right now. Maybe I'm just hoping you are wrong. Because without basic empathy we're all lost.
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Jun 24, 2020 00:08
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Nurge posted:Holy gently caress. How did they not alert the EMTs when they found her unconscious with no other hazards in the apartment? That's some heinous bullshit. They don't actually care about your wellness, as evidenced by them killing and assaulting people. Why would it be any different just because they're not the reason you're unwell?
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Jun 24, 2020 00:11
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Nurge posted:Maybe I'm just hoping you are wrong. Because without basic empathy we're all lost. When someone posts that "Officer Down" meme, it isn't a joke. It's them wishing they did the killing.
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Jun 24, 2020 00:11
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QueenOfTheEvening posted:1 Well yeah but this is Canada. I would absolutely trust the Finnish police to do whatever it takes to get me safely to a hospital. It disturbs me that they're that hosed up in the mooseland.
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Jun 24, 2020 00:13
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Nurge posted:Maybe I'm just hoping you are wrong. Because without basic empathy we're all lost. I have empathy for a lot of people and have personally intervened in dangerous situations to help people who I figure might not have done the same for me but I was also six years old the first time I saw somebody die violently up close and personal and therefore have no problem with it happening to someone who has done real quantifiable harm to innocent people. But the point of abolition is in part eradicating mindsets like mine, because violence is not justice no matter how much we try to convince ourselves that it is. Cops deserve to be held accountable and the institution that empowers them ground into dust but they are also people who should have their needs met and who we should try to bring into the new, better world that is necessary. It's a hard truth to hold but that's the work as much as anything else.
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Jun 24, 2020 05:27
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Nurge posted:Well yeah but this is Canada. I would absolutely trust the Finnish police to do whatever it takes to get me safely to a hospital. It disturbs me that they're that hosed up in the mooseland. American police have been exporting their culture worldwide as much as possible.
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Jun 24, 2020 05:37
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Mat Cauthon posted:Cops deserve to be held accountable and the institution that empowers them ground into dust but they are also people who should have their needs met and who we should try to bring into the new, better world that is necessary. This is why you will never win, your opponents do not believe you are a person who deserves anything. They don’t believe cops should be held accountable and they do think violence is the answer. This is the reason “liberals” lose, they mistakenly believe everyone deep down feels the way they do.
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Jun 24, 2020 05:49
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ElCondemn posted:This is why you will never win, your opponents do not believe you are a person who deserves anything. They don’t believe cops should be held accountable and they do think violence is the answer. What do you suggest should be done? What should we do with former cops in a new world where police are abolished?
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Jun 24, 2020 05:50
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CelestialScribe posted:What do you suggest should be done? What should we do with former cops in a new world where police are abolished? What we need to do is convince self interested people that abolishing the police is in their best interest. We need people who are into monster trucks and hooters to unquestionably believe that cops are bad.
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Jun 24, 2020 05:52
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ElCondemn posted:We need people who are into monster trucks and hooters to unquestionably believe that cops are bad. Man, even this phrase just reveals how much disdain you have for much of the working class. I don't know if you saw this recent polling, but on average, 58% of Americans oppose de-funding the police. (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-like-the-ideas-behind-defunding-the-police-more-than-the-slogan-itself/). Monster trucks and Hooters? Jesus Christ, man. CelestialScribe fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Jun 24, 2020 |
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Jun 24, 2020 05:56
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CelestialScribe posted:Man, even this phrase just reveals how much disdain you have for much of the working class. I’m into monster trucks and tits and weed man, I’m upset that all the people on “my side” act like moral purity is important. The right is always using the lefts eagerness to please/not offend as a weapon against them. Just look at all the people on the left being more upset about destruction of property and protesting wrong instead of seeing that cops are murderers. You think it’s dumb and that I’m not serious, but I think we need NASCAR and mainstream sports in on this poo poo like they are in on white supremacy. The people who oppose ideas like abolishing/defunding the police didn’t reason into those positions, why are we acting like they just need to be reasoned with? Why not just focus on making ideas like these popular among the right groups? ElCondemn fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Jun 24, 2020 |
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Jun 24, 2020 06:01
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ElCondemn posted:This is why you will never win, your opponents do not believe you are a person who deserves anything. They don’t believe cops should be held accountable and they do think violence is the answer. I'm not a liberal. My feelings about violence and justice and my beliefs about the best way to change the world are two separate things. I try not to let the former get in the way of the work of the latter. I agree with your point that we need to bring more people into the project, but my argument is not about moral purity it's about walking the talk of what abolitionists say we believe in. That's not an unreasonable standard and it's not an unwinnable fight either.
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Jun 24, 2020 06:07
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CelestialScribe posted:What do you suggest should be done? What should we do with former cops in a new world where police are abolished? Many, likely most, deserve imprisonment. Some may be able to function in public after extensive programming. All should be considered potential domestic terrorists.
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Jun 24, 2020 06:29
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ElCondemn posted:I’m into monster trucks and tits and weed man, I’m upset that all the people on “my side” act like moral purity is important. The right is always using the lefts eagerness to please/not offend as a weapon against them. Sorry, I thought you were just calling people stupid. Ghost Leviathan posted:Many, likely most, deserve imprisonment. Some may be able to function in public after extensive programming. All should be considered potential domestic terrorists. That isn't going to happen in the real world. So, what do we do with them?
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Jun 24, 2020 06:37
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Then I guess you'll just have to wait for them to commit some sort of DV or other random violence before you sort them out. I doubt it'll take long.
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Jun 24, 2020 07:12
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OwlFancier posted:Then I guess you'll just have to wait for them to commit some sort of DV or other random violence before you sort them out. I doubt it'll take long. I swear I’m not just being a poo poo, but in the context of a world where policing is distributed or abolished, what does that look like? Like, how you are imagining that scenario goes?
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Jun 24, 2020 07:39
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Yuzenn posted:I asked this in the other thread, do you think people are inherently violent? In the western world? At least some of us are. I can tell you I've struggled with violent thoughts and urges ever since I was a child, and I'm fairly well off and had no known childhood trauma. Even with close friends, I occasionally have the sudden desire to just see them get gunned down for some slight. I have to stay away from alcohol as I've proven to be a mean drunk. Now, of course over the years I've learned how to control those urges and operate like a functional person in society and never had a serious incident occur, but not everyone has the benefit of that kind of mental discipline.
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Jun 24, 2020 07:58
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Violence will happen and we just kind of have to accept that. Not because it's human nature (though to some extent when nothing else is an option just to have a chance at surviving what else do you do right?) but because violence is necessary for state control. Ignoring that can of worms though, assuming we do abolish the police as an institution in the states, the logical next step would be to weed out the worst offenders of police brutality and abuse from the top down and jail them. Hopefully we've pulled back on how god awful the US prison system is fairly soon after they're prosecuted and given proper punishment and sentences. If that ends up the case, we can reinvest all of those tax dollars to fund a baseline standard of living and access to healthcare and such so that once they do their time and get out most everyone is financially stable and healthy by default. If they wanted to be a part of whatever systems replaced policing they'd undergo psych evals and instead of being catch-all, there would be specific social worker roles in order to help those who have or are likely to commit crimes in the future. Eventually, in a society we can't even picture because that's how generational change works, public officials having anywhere near as much authority to do what cops do would be absurd. That is, as far as I have been able to figure, the most optimistic future we can imagine if we want to abolish the police. And it's a lot of stipulations that no one can guarantee will happen. Just please ignore that we have a really tight time limit to do that and then some because of fuckin' climate change
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Jun 24, 2020 12:12
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CelestialScribe posted:
Who cares? We do not have a heated debate and discussion when a major corporation shuts down a plant or moves their work overseas - all of those people have to enter the fun merry go round of capitalism, why would cops be any different? Maybe they should code. And you cited "public" sentiment polling but again what does that even matter? Popularity is nonsense vs doing the right thing, most social movements are unpopular in their time because people do not like change, it's something inherently scary about being an active participant in not only self analysis but analysis of the state but it needs doing. SalamInsurrection posted:At least some of us are. I can tell you I've struggled with violent thoughts and urges ever since I was a child, and I'm fairly well off and had no known childhood trauma. Even with close friends, I occasionally have the sudden desire to just see them get gunned down for some slight. I have to stay away from alcohol as I've proven to be a mean drunk. Now, of course over the years I've learned how to control those urges and operate like a functional person in society and never had a serious incident occur, but not everyone has the benefit of that kind of mental discipline. Thanks for your honesty and i'm no professional but you should definitely see someone about this if I'm being perfectly honest with you. In answering my own question I do not think people are violent as long as their basic needs are met. I think that the violence we see on most occasions is rooted in poverty, stress (largely socioeconomic stress), and lack of general resources or protection of those resources. I am not ignorant to the fact that anyone can be violent, that's not what i'm saying but instead of dealing with the fact of what makes people get violent, we just presuppose they are violent. You can't get rid of all violence but you sure can eliminate a lot of it.
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Jun 24, 2020 14:21
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I think it’s also important to note that police don’t play a factor in violent crime (unless they’re committing it). Worrying about what people might do without police is really a distraction from the discussion. Defunding or abolishing police isn’t going to fundamentally change human behavior, violence will still exist but that is a problem to be solved through other means because police are definitely not working. Providing housing, entertainment, and opportunity impacts general violent behavior more than police ever have. Saw a study a while ago that during big movie releases crime dropped on those weekends, if people were motivated by police presence we’d see strong correlation and we don’t
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Jun 24, 2020 16:39
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ElCondemn posted:I’m into monster trucks and tits and weed man, I’m upset that all the people on “my side” act like moral purity is important. The right is always using the lefts eagerness to please/not offend as a weapon against them. I more or less agree with this which is why I don't care to get in the weeds and instead try and make people who object seem stupid, venal or evil and myself seem cool, funny and smart.
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Jun 24, 2020 16:49
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Community fights sex trafficking that cops ignore, recovers missing kids while cops coverup: https://twitter.com/partymom6/status/1275595157098893315?s=20
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Jun 24, 2020 17:31
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https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1275738275215523840 If this is my last post here on this Dead Gay Comedy forum, please let it be known that people that push "reforms" have no interest in doing even the base level of reforms. #abolishthepolice
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Jun 24, 2020 19:48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xItaRUSPQXY Video on the CHAZ and how people are adapting to the lack of hierarchy and cops. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Jun 27, 2020 |
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Jun 26, 2020 17:32
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Scare tactics! https://twitter.com/NYDailyNews/status/1276325062216421381
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Jun 27, 2020 00:30
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Watching awesome threads like these devolve due to relentless bad faith posting is exactly what's wrong with this forum. Don't you threaten me with a good time.
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Jun 27, 2020 03:08
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 Edit: After running extensive simulations in SimCity, I can indeed confirm that defunding the police department will cause the city's crime rate to skyrocket. BoldFace fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jun 27, 2020 |
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Jun 27, 2020 03:11
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Get a load of these fuckers! Las Vegas police plan $280 an hour fee for body cam footage. Critics say that violates law https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2020/06/24/las-vegas-police-charge-280-per-hour-body-cam-footage/3250074001/
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Jun 27, 2020 12:07
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https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1276923274157490177?s=21 Can someone post the text?
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Jun 27, 2020 20:13
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These are commendable steps on the way to greater reform (hopefully).
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Jun 28, 2020 03:11
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excited for the pilot incident to be "well the cop says his bodycam didnt work and its not his fault, and we believe him, so we're granting an exception"
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Jun 28, 2020 23:20
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Verviticus posted:excited for the pilot incident to be "well the cop says his bodycam didnt work and its not his fault, and we believe him, so we're granting an exception" They have a policy against killing unarmed people too, seems like a pretty toothless promise.
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Jun 29, 2020 06:40
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The Kingfish posted:https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1276923274157490177?s=21 I can't say it's very interesting - it's basically a sympathetic biography of the man, going so far as to note the time he helped classmates with their homework on the playground when he was six years old. It quotes a number of other people saying "maybe the problem is that the system is broken, not just a few individual bad apples?????" but the article itself carefully avoids drawing any kind of conclusion at all. quote:MINNEAPOLIS — There were two black men at the scene of the police killing in Minneapolis last month that roiled the nation. One, George Floyd, was sprawled on the asphalt, with a white officer’s knee on his neck. The other black man, Alex Kueng, was a rookie police officer who held his back as Mr. Floyd struggled to breathe.
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Jun 29, 2020 20:09
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That's one helluva hook, officer! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtWuMmAOk0g
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Jul 2, 2020 20:49
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Main Paineframe posted:I can't say it's very interesting - it's basically a sympathetic biography of the man, going so far as to note the time he helped classmates with their homework on the playground when he was six years old. It quotes a number of other people saying "maybe the problem is that the system is broken, not just a few individual bad apples?????" but the article itself carefully avoids drawing any kind of conclusion at all. It's so funny that all the cops get "humanizing" pieces while the media tried to drag George Floyd down as some sort of criminal and not perfect person. gently caress humanizing this guy. Anyone who could stand there watching a man slowly die is a person without morals and just as sick of an individual. The fact that a "few bad apples" is even a thing is so strange considering the entire phrase ends with "spoils the whole bunch". Long story short, ACAB.
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Jul 2, 2020 21:27
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Los Angeles update: - We're cutting $150 million of the LAPD budget - We're slashing the school cop budget and taking them out of schools - Chief school cop resigned over the budget cut. - Council has voted to move towards replacing the LAPD. A decent start. Not where it needs to be yet, at all. But LA is huge and anything is still a big deal.
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Jul 2, 2020 21:49
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Jaxyon posted:Los Angeles update: Seems like they're only cutting it from a planned increase so it's not actually reduced in any real way. https://twitter.com/bigblackjacobin/status/1278433158145413128?s=20
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Jul 2, 2020 23:35
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WampaLord posted:Seems like they're only cutting it from a planned increase so it's not actually reduced in any real way. Yeah the budget was ready to go into affect with the full amount before the protests hit. If we had cut it from the current budget, and then added the full increase, it would be the same thing. I already said that it isn't enough. This is a long slog, and there's no guarantee of winning. LAPD is huge and LASD is also huge.
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Jul 2, 2020 23:38
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