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Glad to see the proscription on mod action for non perma punishments has once again just been ignored without public announcement (see lepers colony and above) Gee I wonder why nobody trusts mods when the LC is a wall of "stfu" to mod criticism. Also this and iospace talking about how actually it is the goons who are wrong in the mod thread in qcs is everything wrong with moderation rn
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Jun 27, 2020 22:37
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Giga Gaia posted:lk shouldnt be a mod because they're like 12 and 12 year olds should live mas and not have to deal with elderly forum posters talking about the lindy hop and shooting elected officials in the dick with tommy guns I’m a big fan of this post
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Jun 27, 2020 22:40
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T-man posted:Also this and iospace talking about how actually it is the goons who are wrong in the mod thread in qcs is everything wrong with moderation rn i like how they're trying to put on the polite PR I See And Hear You facade and then iospace just blunders in like "WHY SHOULD I RESPECT THESE FILTHY SERFS WHO TALKED BACK TO THEIR BETTERS"
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Jun 27, 2020 22:44
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Tbf this is goons we're talking about so there is a lot of unwashed mass around. I hope the continuing drama is plot from jefferey to drive the price down.
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Jun 27, 2020 22:48
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I will post feet pics in exchange for being elected head mod of QCS. I'll make Fluffdaddy look like the good cop.
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Jun 27, 2020 22:50
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Yinlock posted:i like how they're trying to put on the polite PR I See And Hear You facade and then iospace just blunders in like "WHY SHOULD I RESPECT THESE FILTHY SERFS WHO TALKED BACK TO THEIR BETTERS" tbf it's completely in character for them lol
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Jun 27, 2020 22:53
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Son of Thunderbeast was no angel
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Jun 27, 2020 23:03
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Antifa Poltergeist posted:Tbf this is goons we're talking about so there is a lot of unwashed mass around. I'll have you know my mass is fairly well washed, goonsir
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Jun 27, 2020 23:17
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i think it’s absolutely loving hilarious how goons simultaneously want mods to be a cohesive group with detailed communication between each other about everything they do onsite and offsite for accountability and completely independent of each other with no obligations to each other whatsoever but hey im dealing with my own community transparency/modding crisis as a mod in an extremely non-sa space so im just laughing at seeing it play out ten times worse here nobody is happy for reasons that are a mix of valid and bullshit and nobody will ever be happy with the outcome because complex outcomes always have compromises in them, and some of the things ive seen demanded are patently ridiculous. to quote WOPR, the only way to win is not to play, organized communities are a sham and doomed to failure and we should all live in independent off-grid cabins writing manifestos and sending them to the new york times :anarchistsay:
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Jun 27, 2020 23:36
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Yinlock posted:i like how they're trying to put on the polite PR I See And Hear You facade and then iospace just blunders in like "WHY SHOULD I RESPECT THESE FILTHY SERFS WHO TALKED BACK TO THEIR BETTERS" iospace is consistently more aggro than fluffdaddy, which is a hell of an accomplishment
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Jun 27, 2020 23:39
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The trick is to be the bad guy from the start, then you can only overperform
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Jun 27, 2020 23:45
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corgski posted:i think it’s absolutely loving hilarious how goons simultaneously want mods to be a cohesive group with detailed communication between each other about everything they do onsite and offsite for accountability and completely independent of each other with no obligations to each other whatsoever i mean i think the two week struggle session idea floated earlier is out there too but there's a lot of small things that can be done. I don't think anyone wants mods to be more disconnected and out of touch either? From what it sounds like in the qcs lowtax-mods most of them have no idea what happens most of the time and are also doing too much. but yes also flatten all hierarchies even dumb internet ones
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Jun 27, 2020 23:46
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corgski posted:i think it’s absolutely loving hilarious how goons simultaneously want mods to be a cohesive group with detailed communication between each other about everything they do onsite and offsite for accountability and completely independent of each other with no obligations to each other whatsoever "any accountability whatsoever" isn't a huge ask
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Jun 27, 2020 23:48
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Homeless Friend posted:The trick is to be the bad guy from the start, then you can only overperform good trick for life in general but especially when you decide to moderate an internet forum because youre dumb as dirt and your brain is just a haystack over top of a salt lick
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Jun 27, 2020 23:48
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I don’t think asking mods to answer questions about hosed up things they do is a big ask. the usual mod MO (CSPAM mods aside) is to not show up in the thread at all, but send other mods to vouch for your character instead. then it all either blows over (and nothing changes) or explodes so badly that they post an insane screed and quit (see: PPJ, Burt). just loving engaging and listening to your peers is important, and usually gets completely ignored for as long as possible.
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Jun 27, 2020 23:49
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Yinlock posted:"any accountability whatsoever" isn't a huge ask
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Jun 27, 2020 23:49
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Fly Molo posted:I don’t think asking mods to answer questions about hosed up things they do is a big ask. the usual mod MO (CSPAM mods aside) is to not show up in the thread at all, but send other mods to vouch for your character instead. there's also the offshoot of "promise to stay out of whatever thread is yelling at you, then send your pet ik to smite them"
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Jun 27, 2020 23:50
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it will always amaze me that over the course of many threads in QCS about PPJ's modding, not once did he ever make anything resembling a substantial response to the criticisms of him. I'm not even sure he ever responded at all.
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Jun 27, 2020 23:52
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Giga Gaia posted:good trick for life in general but especially when you decide to moderate an internet forum because youre dumb as dirt and your brain is just a haystack over top of a salt lick
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Jun 27, 2020 23:52
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also speaking from experience I expect a good number of the cases of mods “closing ranks” is almost certainly actually mods frantically dming each other trying to figure out what the gently caress is happening and getting no/bad information and being afraid to say anything at all because the answer “we’re talking privately to figure out what the gently caress this is” is taken about as well here as telling a boston resident that the sox suck as the bars close i think greater transparency is good and should be a thing but holy hell we’ve created a culture where it’s toxic because people want transparency to mean perfect information or at least validating their bullshit theories on demand instead of lots of “iunno” and “we’re looking into this” anyway ill take a daves double with a large diet coke and could I get a lemon in the coke
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Jun 27, 2020 23:53
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corgski posted:also speaking from experience I expect a good number of the cases of mods “closing ranks” is almost certainly actually mods frantically dming each other trying to figure out what the gently caress is happening and getting no/bad information and being afraid to say anything at all because the answer “we’re talking privately to figure out what the gently caress this is” is taken about as well here as telling a boston resident that the sox suck as the bars close for you buddy it's gonna be a lemon party where is anyone asking for perfect imformation? I really think you're arguing with a ghost here, or at least transferring things from your own mod stuff. anyway i'll take a goatse and a vintage image macro to go, hold the dickbutt
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Jun 27, 2020 23:58
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Actually "we're talking privately to figure out what the gently caress this is" would be grudgingly accepted, it'd just be embarrassing to the mods to admit they've got no idea what the gently caress is going on.
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Jun 27, 2020 23:59
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Lmao corgski is typing huge post and being interrogated like a POW wherever they mod, owned hugely.
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Jun 27, 2020 23:59
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corgski posted:also speaking from experience I expect a good number of the cases of mods “closing ranks” is almost certainly actually mods frantically dming each other trying to figure out what the gently caress is happening and getting no/bad information and being afraid to say anything at all because the answer “we’re talking privately to figure out what the gently caress this is” is taken about as well here as telling a boston resident that the sox suck as the bars close any information whatsoever is also not a huge ask
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Jun 28, 2020 00:00
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Oh Snapple! posted:it will always amaze me that over the course of many threads in QCS about PPJ's modding, not once did he ever make anything resembling a substantial response to the criticisms of him. I'm not even sure he ever responded at all.
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Jun 28, 2020 00:00
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the reason why "we're talking privately" goes down poorly is because it's been used for years as qcs shorthand for "we're ignoring this"
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Jun 28, 2020 00:01
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Giga Gaia posted:good trick for life in general but especially when you decide to moderate an internet forum because youre dumb as dirt and your brain is just a haystack over top of a salt lick
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Jun 28, 2020 00:13
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Giga Gaia posted:good trick for life in general but especially when you decide to moderate an internet forum because youre dumb as dirt and your brain is just a haystack over top of a salt lick
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Jun 28, 2020 00:26
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Yinlock posted:the reason why "we're talking privately" goes down poorly is because it's been used for years as qcs shorthand for "we're ignoring this" yeah exactly. we’re not saying PPJ should’ve responded to every criticism immediately, we’re saying people would’ve chilled out a bit if he had ever responded to anything, at all. complete, indefinite silence is the norm.
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Jun 28, 2020 00:33
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here’s a simple way to fix that, which will never be implemented: give a response time. take the time to discuss, if needed; an answer isn’t needed that hour, or that day, or even that week. for gently caress’s sake just say “we’ll discuss it internally, and provide a response by the 15th at the latest.” and stick to it. a counter example is the effort post by Jeffrey that was promised repeatedly during the PPJ crisis but never came. right now, the combination of secret deliberations behind closed doors + no urgency to come to a decision or do anything difficult + no mod/community communication as the norm during times of crisis = ‘we’re discussing it’ means it’s buried forever.
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Jun 28, 2020 00:41
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Fly Molo posted:here’s a simple way to fix that, which will never be implemented: give a response time. take the time to discuss, if needed; an answer isn’t needed that hour, or that day, or even that week. lmao, imagine thinking this would be satisfactory to more than 10% of SA posters, cspam included come on
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Jun 28, 2020 00:44
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Jose can huff my loving shorts and McDonald's needs to wear the Tucker av instead of probing people
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Jun 28, 2020 00:48
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Sailor Cat posted:I think this perfectly demonstrates what's wrong with the modmins: you guys go into a panic at any threat to your internet powers, and will believe anything to keep them. At best, it's intellectually lazy and dishonest. It never occurred to anyone that PPJ was using the spy story as a cover? Or that you can't really be a spy if you use the same name on discord as on the forums? Or that it was time to pull the plug on the "operation" when you found out he was contributing to racist chat? Or that defending him was a fool's errand when the forums found out? p. decent slashie/tiny bronto impersonation
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Jun 28, 2020 00:51
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the mod situation would probably be a lot better with the person who owns the forums actually being interested in administrating them everyone seems to have wildly different expectations of mods, including the mods themselves gently caress burt either way, tho
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Jun 28, 2020 00:55
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Fly Molo posted:here’s a simple way to fix that, which will never be implemented: give a response time. take the time to discuss, if needed; an answer isn’t needed that hour, or that day, or even that week. this is legit quote:gently caress burt either way, tho
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Jun 28, 2020 00:59
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Fly Molo posted:here’s a simple way to fix that, which will never be implemented: give a response time. take the time to discuss, if needed; an answer isn’t needed that hour, or that day, or even that week. "We're discussing things all the time but we also never really talk much in the mod forum or the discord" is the message they're putting forward right now 
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Jun 28, 2020 01:00
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Flunky posted:the mod situation would probably be a lot better with the person who owns the forums actually being interested in administrating them I agree with all of this. the problem is that the owner hasn't given a poo poo for a long time, and right now there really isn't an owner, essentially. sure, it's still shithead, but no one's going to listen to him. that means no one's in charge, so of course we're not going to get a collective answer or action on stuff from modmins right now (and probably why in the past, to some extent, too). everyone is just sort of treading water. I also think that the role of mods and admins and iks should be made clear once we get past all the uncertainty. things like what's expected of them, how processes for making decisions work, what their roles are, and accountability measures should all be defined as clearly as possible going forward.
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Jun 28, 2020 01:25
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Jeffery has been our leader tho? Like, he was made Head Admin. Going Head Admin to site owner would only be different for the few times lowtax showed up, during all of the lulls between him making GBS threads the place up the modmins were the ones in control. Now I will grant both that there's still an effect of having lowtax come back at any time and that he did have ultimate authority, but by the sound of things he almost never used it. I think a lot of the moderation team is using Lowtax as something of a shield against self reflection on the moderation culture here; it would be so much nicer if lowtax alone actually was what was wrong with things. But the two people who I consider to have been in active control of things (jeff and reene) aren't here right now.
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Jun 28, 2020 01:39
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^^yeah, ‘we can’t change _____ because lowtax’ has been a common excuse for a while now. now that he’s gone, it’ll be interesting to see what changes (or doesn’t change).Good Soldier Svejk posted:"We're discussing things all the time but we also never really talk much in the mod forum or the discord" is the message they're putting forward right now yeah, very mixed messages. and even when issues do get discussed, the appearance (from the outside) is that issues get dropped for ‘later discussion’ if there isn’t a quick easy fix (ie. ban someone). it speaks to a lack of resources and organization. any big or complicated change? nope, everyone’s too busy to figure that out now, we’ll circle back later (never).
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Jun 28, 2020 01:41
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T-man posted:Jeffery has been our leader tho? Like, he was made Head Admin. Going Head Admin to site owner would only be different for the few times lowtax showed up, during all of the lulls between him making GBS threads the place up the modmins were the ones in control. Now I will grant both that there's still an effect of having lowtax come back at any time and that he did have ultimate authority, but by the sound of things he almost never used it. the admins seem content to pin everything on lowtax, completely ignoring the fact that lowtax appointed them
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Jun 28, 2020 01:46
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