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Bronze Fonz posted:How the gently caress are you still here? gently caress right the hell off. No one in trad games is going to support you going after Reene.
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Jun 28, 2020 02:01
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Arivia posted:gently caress right the hell off. No one in trad games is going to support you going after Reene. On this, we all agree with Arivia. No one wants the dregs of QCS making GBS threads up our forum.
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Jun 28, 2020 02:02
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People with two full days worth of QCC posts in their history are not worth interacting with
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Jun 28, 2020 02:05
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May be a minor derail, but what is so bad about QCS as a subforum? Said as someone who hardly ventures outside of Trad Games and Batman's Shameful Secret.
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Jun 28, 2020 02:07
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It's a forum for yelling at mods about how they're bad at being mods
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Jun 28, 2020 02:10
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Libertad! posted:May be a minor derail, but what is so bad about QCS as a subforum? Said as someone who hardly ventures outside of Trad Games and Batman's Shameful Secret. All the bad posting across the forums kind of rolls down into and collects there. To give you an example, I post there sometimes, Plutonis posts there more.
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Jun 28, 2020 02:11
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Libertad! posted:May be a minor derail, but what is so bad about QCS as a subforum? Said as someone who hardly ventures outside of Trad Games and Batman's Shameful Secret. It's a subforum that shouldn't have regulars, but does somehow. It seems like between the legitimate requests (i.e., clear an avatar, add a new feature, stuff like that), there's a shitload of brigading and people trying to use the place to punish their forums enemies. Right now is a bit of a different story, though, because people want to work out how things will look in a post-Lowtax world, and sometimes that means looking back at mistakes that were made during previous dustups.
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Jun 28, 2020 02:11
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theironjef posted:That never worked or added up the way it was supposed to. Half-orc cleric topped out at 4 (so they'd make good antagonists). Even then nothing was stopping a human from dual/classing and having 40 class levels but tons of XP. They weren't in there for balance, they were in there to enforce the human-centric Greyhawk campaign setting early editions used as a default, and to win an argument of "Well my elf is 500 years old, he should be a level a million wizard." Yeah, I guess my point was not supposed to be that they were good, just that idea was supposed to be that it was that supposedly what stopped elves from taking over the world.
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Jun 28, 2020 02:14
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Bronze Fonz posted:How the gently caress are you still here? Reene's a regular in this subforum and I don't know if I've ever seen you post here before. But looking at your rap sheet you've been probed twice in the the last month or so for slurs. So why are you here?
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Jun 28, 2020 02:18
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Dexo posted:Related lol. I'm impressed by the guy somehow claiming that Drow aren't depicted as having black skin 99% of the time.
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Jun 28, 2020 02:21
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QCS somehow became the new Helldump in that it's a weird little corner where you can be nasty without repercussion because nobody reads it. It occasionally backflows into the real forums.
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Jun 28, 2020 02:29
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 02:35
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senrath posted:I'm impressed by the guy somehow claiming that Drow aren't depicted as having black skin 99% of the time. My favorite argument in that thread is "If all the races aren't inherently evil, then what happened to diversity?"
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Jun 28, 2020 02:41
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King of Solomon posted:It's a subforum that shouldn't have regulars, but does somehow. It seems like between the legitimate requests (i.e., clear an avatar, add a new feature, stuff like that), there's a shitload of brigading and people trying to use the place to punish their forums enemies. QCS has regulars in the sense that it has some people that set up camp chairs to wait for the "mad at mods" threads so that they can come in and hoot in it. Honestly though, I wish more people bothered to look at it outside of when they're mad at their mods or rushing in to fight for the honor of their subforum. Absurd Alhazred posted:Some genius there linked to this opinion piece on Psychology Today dismissing the controversy about racism in D&D, which in turn had this gem: Imagination, huh? Well why don't we ask Tolkein what he imagined they looked like? quote:...they are (or were) squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes; in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types Ah...
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Jun 28, 2020 02:48
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theironjef posted:My favorite argument in that thread is "If all the races aren't inherently evil, then what happened to diversity?" That's actually from the same guy who thinks that drow have never been depicted as being dark skinned, except by ignorant outsiders. He is full of amazingly bad takes.
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Jun 28, 2020 02:52
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I got to the one who was going 'it's cool and good that evil races exist so my players can kill them without qualms' and had to stop there.
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Jun 28, 2020 02:56
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Leraika posted:I got to the one who was going 'it's cool and good that evil races exist so my players can kill them without qualms' and had to stop there. That is also the same guy. Edit: Oh, wait, there was a different guy who said it first. It just got echoed later by others.
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Jun 28, 2020 02:59
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 03:00
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Absurd Alhazred posted:If only there was a way to make forums better by removing individuals with bad takes who lower the level of discourse.
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Jun 28, 2020 03:05
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I feel it's less that It Came From Something Awful and more they're afraid of possible backlash if they end up banning someone popular, which means of course that those people get to effectively run the forums and everything gets shittier and shittier.
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Jun 28, 2020 03:09
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 03:34
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Someone in that thread posted:Technically, D&D uses “race” correctly. It’s society that uses it incorrectly. Our society is broken, not the game. Can someone explain this argument to me? I do not get it at all. Maybe the fact that no one in our society is a hulking hurler is the biggest indictment of all.
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Jun 28, 2020 03:36
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Robotic Folksinger posted:Can someone explain this argument to me? I do not get it at all. I think what they mean is that it's correct for a goblin to be a race, because they're "literally" a different species from, say, humans It's us IRL that are using "race" incorrectly when we consider black people to be another race, when they aren't, because they're still also humans
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Jun 28, 2020 03:41
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gradenko_2000 posted:I think what they mean is that it's correct for a goblin to be a race, because they're "literally" a different species from, say, humans
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Jun 28, 2020 03:43
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Robotic Folksinger posted:Can someone explain this argument to me? I do not get it at all. They're saying that there's only one race on Earth, humans, worth talking about and the other races (Baboons, lungfish, cats) all unarguably have significantly different stats, but everyone's saying black people or Italians or w/e are different races which would have different stat because we're using the word race wrong. In short, 
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Jun 28, 2020 03:44
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Some genius there linked to this opinion piece on Psychology Today dismissing the controversy about racism in D&D, which in turn had this gem: So later in the thread that poster defended linking that article, and also claimed that being mean to racists is the real problem, because it totally just makes them more racist guys. Not quite as bad as the poster that equated being mean to racists with the Rwandan Genocide and everything the Nazis did, though.
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Jun 28, 2020 03:55
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 03:57
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Absurd Alhazred posted:More information about the clusterfuck that was/is CAH This is horrific, jesus Christ
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Jun 28, 2020 03:59
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 04:00
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Absurd Alhazred posted:*record scratch* An idiot posted:You know, that dehumanising someone because of their ideology is only slightly less awful than dehumanising them because of their race. Like yeah, you can choose an ideology so that's a factor someone has more agency over, but really the awful thing is the dehumanisation. The removing of a person's personhood. That they chose their ideology is the icing on the awful cake. The dehumanisation is the awful cake.
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Jun 28, 2020 04:00
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 04:01
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Hating Nazis is as bad as Naxis, apparently. gently caress this guy.
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Jun 28, 2020 04:02
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GreenMetalSun posted:That's definitely not that case in 2E and/or 2E 'Advanced', but I assume it did occur in a previous edition. Racial Types in D&D (1974) Human: No modifiers. Dwarf: Can only be level 1-6 Fighters, +4 levels to saving throws, can use +3 war hammers, note slanting passages, traps, shifting walls, and new construction underground, and speak the languages of Dwarves, Humans, Gnomes, Kobolds, and Goblins. They can also listen at doors with a ⅓ chance of success, up from ⅙. May possibly have half the usual chance of pushing doors open, who knows, these rules aren't edited well or at all. Elf: May be level 1-4 Fighters or level 1-8 Magic-Users and switch between the two between adventures. May use all kinds of weapons (presumably except the +3 warhammer). May wear magic armour even while in Magic-User mode. Have attack bonuses against certain fantastic creatures, and speak the languages of Elves, Humans, Orcs, Hobgoblins, and Gnolls. They also have a ⅔ chance of detecting secret doors when searching, up from a standard ⅓, and may at the referee's option have a ⅓ chance of noticing a secret passage simply by passing it. They can also listen at doors with a ⅓ chance of success, up from ⅙. Hobbits: May be level 1-4 Fighters, +4 levels to saving throws, and have bonuses with missile weapons. They can also listen at doors with a ⅓ chance of success, up from ⅙. May possibly have half the usual chance of pushing doors open, who knows, these rules aren't edited well or at all. Other: "There is no reason that players cannot be allowed to play as virtually anything" D&D Errata (1976) Dwarf: Get +1 when attacking giants, and giants have -1 to attack them. Elf: Get +1 to attack when using swords or bows. Hobbit: Get +3 to attack when using slings. Greyhawk Additions (1976) Human: Unchanged. Dwarf: Can become level 7 Fighters with STR 17 and level 8 fighters with STR 18. In addition to Fighters they may become Thieves or Fighter/Thieves. Dwarves Fighter-Clerics exist, but you can't play as one. Have infravision out to 60 inches. Dwarven Thieves have bonuses to lockpicking, disarming traps, moving silently, and hiding in shadows. Elf: Can become level 5 Fighters with STR 17 and level 6 Fighters with STR 18, and level 9 Magic-Users with INT 18. In addition to Fighter-Magic-Users they may become Thieves or Fighter-Magic-User-Thieves. There are Fighter-Magic-User-Clerics, but you can't play as one. Have infravision out to 60 inches. Elven Thieves have bonuses to pickpocketing, moving silently, and hiding in shadows. Hobbit: Can also become Thieves. Hobbit Thieves have bonuses to lockpicking, disarming traps, pickpocketing, moving silently, hiding in shadows, and hearing noises. Half-Elf: May become level 1-6 Fighters (7 with STR 17, 8 with STR 18) and level 1-6 Magic-Users (7 with INT 17, 8 with INT 18). With INT 13+ they may also become level 1-4 Clerics. May not be chaotic or associate with chaotic characters or creatures. May wear magic armour even while in Magic-User mode. Speak the languages of Orcs, Hobgoblins, and Gnolls. They also have a ⅔ chance of detecting secret doors when searching, up from a standard ⅓, and may at the referee's option have a ⅓ chance of noticing a secret passage simply by passing it. They can also listen at doors with a ⅓ chance of success, up from ⅙. Racial Stocks in AD&D (1978) Here is where things get really  as seen on this table: The slash denotes male/female maximums, the parenthesis denotes the maximum when dealing with other races. Human: No modifiers. Dwarf: Can become level 1-9 Fighters, level 1-9 Assassins, or any level of Thief. May become Fighter-Thieves. Dwarves have +1 CON, and -1 CHA when interacting with non-Dwarves. Dwarves have a bonus to saves against magic and toxins that scales with CON. They have infravision out to 60 inches, speak dwarven, human, gnome, goblin, kobold, and orcish, their alignment language, and up to two more languages. They can determine the grade of a slope and the depth underground, and detect new construction, passages, tunnels, sliding and shifting walls and rooms, and certain kinds of traps at various levels of probability. Dwarves attack half-orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs at +1 to hit in melee, and ogres, trolls, giants, and titans attack at -4 to hit dwarves. Dwarven Thieves have bonuses to lockpicking and disarming traps and penalties to climbing walls and reading. Elf: Can become level 1-7 Fighters, level 1-11 Magic-Users, level 1-10 Assassins, or any level of Thief. May become Fighter-Magic-Users, Fighter-Thieves, Magic-User-Thieves, or Fighter-Magic-User-Thieves. Elves have +1 CHA and -1 CON, a 90% chance to ignore sleep and charm spells, a +1 to hit with bows, short swords, and long swords, speak elvish, gnome, halfling, goblin, hobgoblin, orcish, gnoll, human, and their alignment language and may learn more languages. They have infravision out to 60 inches, detect secret doors and passages at increased probability, and can move silently to ambush monsters. Elven Thieves have bonuses to pickpocketing, moving silently, hiding in shadows, and hearing noises, and a penalty to lockpicking. Halfling: Can become level 1-6 Fighters or any level of Thief. May become Fighter-Thieves. Halflings have -1 STR and +1 DEX. Halflings have bonuses to saves against magic and poison that scale with CON. They speak halfling, human, dwarven, elvish, gnome, goblin, and orcish. Mixed-blood halflings (  ) have infravision out to 30 inches, while ones of pure Stout blood have it out to 60 inches. Mixed-blood and Stout Halflings can determine slope and direction underground, and can move silently to ambush monsters. Halfling Thieves have a bonus to pickpocketing, lockpicking, disarming traps, moving silently, hiding in shadows, and hearing noises, and a penalty to climbing and reading.Half-Elf: Can become level 1-5 Clerics, level 1-8 Fighters, level 1-8 Rangers, level 1-8 Magic-Users, level 1-11 Assassins, or any level of Druid or Thief. May become Fighter-Clerics, Ranger-Clerics, Magic-User-Clerics, Fighter-Magic-Users, Fighter-Thieves, Magic-User-Thieves, Fighter-Magic-User-Clerics, or Fighter-Magic-User-Thieves. Half-Elves have a 30% chance to ignore sleep and charm spells, speak elvish, human, gnome, halfling, gobling, hobgoblin, orcish, gnoll, their alignment language, and may learn additional languages. They have infravision out to 60 inches and detect secret doors and passages at increased probabilities. Half-Elven Thieves have a bonus to pickpocketing and hiding in shadows. Gnome: Can become level 1-6 Fighters, level 1-7 Illusionists, level 1-8 Assassins, or any level of Thief. Gnomes have a bonus to saves against magic that scales with CON. They have infravision out to 60 inches, speak dwarven, human, gnome, halfling, goblin, kobold, and the languages of burrowing mammals, their alignment language, and up to two more languages. They can determine the grade of a slope, direction of travel, and the depth underground, and detect new unsafe walls, floors, and ceilings at various levels of probability. Gnomes attack kobolds and goblins at +1 to hit and gnolls, bugbears, ogres, trolls, giants, and titans have -4 to hit gnomes. Gnome Thieves have a bonus to lockpicking, disarming traps, moving silently, hiding in shadows, and hearing noises, and a penalty to climbing. Half-Orc: Can become level 1-4 Clerics, level 1-10 Fighters, level 1-8 Thieves, or any level of Assassin. They may become Fighter-Clerics, Cleric-Thieves, Cleric-Assassins, Fighter-Thieves, or Fighter-Assassins. Half-Orcs have +1 STR, +1 CON, and -2 CHA. And just... just read this: quote:Orcs are fecund and create many cross-breeds, most of the offspring of such being typically orcish. However, some one-tenth of orc-human mongrels are sufficiently non-orcish to pass for human. [...] As it is assumed that player characters which are of half-orc race will within the superior 10% [...] Summary While the original release of D&D had racial differences these are typically class restrictions (which by Greyhawk are player restrictions, and an inability for the Dwarf and Hobbit, with their innate magic resistance, to become Magic-Users), overtly supernatural (the aforementioned magic resistance), or reflecting cultural animosities (Dwarves hate giants). It's AD&D 1e that really introduces the concept of the racial ability modifier, and it's also where some of the real ugliness of Gygax racialised thinking shows itself: mixed-blood halflings as less capable than pure-blooded Stouts, and everything about the half-orc is just really incredibly ugly. Like wow. Paging H.P. Lovecraft to the white courtesy phone, paging H.P. Lovecraft to the white courtesy phone...
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Jun 28, 2020 04:11
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The edgy card game that has product in Target of all places has links to capitalism? Shocking. Semi-related but it did me good to see some people in the board game aisle last night holding CaH, only for one of them to say "Hey, we should go buy Apples to Apples."
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Jun 28, 2020 04:27
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Robotic Folksinger posted:Can someone explain this argument to me? I do not get it at all. Linguistically "race" has been loaded up with multiple, closely related meanings. Among other things, it gets used as a vaguer, less latin-sounding synonym for species (eg, "the human race"). That's the form that D&D uses, and what the person you quote refers to as "correct." Of course, the common usage of race (ie, to delineate groupings like white or black or whatever) isn't semantically wrong, but the underlying concept is morally and scientifically questionable, to say the least.
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Jun 28, 2020 04:35
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I was going to do that deep dive into pre-3e race characteristics, but it seems LatwPIAT already beat me to it. The other thing I'd like to mention is that the Rules Cyclopedia does have a variant rule way in the back to allow non-human races full level progression with an alternative XP table. Anyway, my contribution is that what essentially happened was a shift from maximums and minimums in the AD&D days, into straight bonuses and penalties to stats in 3e, which served a couple of purposes related to how the way of rolling/determining stats had changed, and how the meaning of the stats had changed, ergo everything was standardised such that 20 STR has a linear relationship to 15 STR, as opposed to an exponential (logarithmic?) one in AD&D. But the implications of stat limits and restrictions were still there, and in some ways, even worse.
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Jun 28, 2020 04:42
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gradenko_2000 posted:I was going to do that deep dive into pre-3e race characteristics, but it seems LatwPIAT already beat me to it. I've only made a treatment of D&D up to AD&D 1e (I've skipped Holmes Basic, but it's basically the 1974 game with an editor so there's no real changes.) so if you want to cover B/X, BECMI, Unearthed Arcana, Rules Cyclopedia, AD&D 2e, and Classic, please do!
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Jun 28, 2020 04:47
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LatwPIAT posted:I've only made a treatment of D&D up to AD&D 1e (I've skipped Holmes Basic, but it's basically the 1974 game with an editor so there's no real changes.) so if you want to cover B/X, BECMI, Unearthed Arcana, Rules Cyclopedia, AD&D 2e, and Classic, please do! It would actually be incredibly sweet to play a Cleric/Assassin so it's shame about the everything else. This is from 2E, so those racial stat things hadn't gone away by the time Planescape showed up I just remember always ignoring them: 
GreenMetalSun fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Jun 28, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 05:00
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GreenMetalSun posted:It would actually be incredibly sweet to play a Cleric/Assassin so it's shame about the everything else.  What You'd Get Now, Probably (And Better for It): 
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Jun 28, 2020 05:04
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theironjef posted:My favorite argument in that thread is "If all the races aren't inherently evil, then what happened to diversity?" I've been trying to parse that so it makes sense for the last few minutes and it's just not happening.
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Jun 28, 2020 12:30
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