UKMT Summer 2020 - Two Pints of Saline and Abacavir for Drip

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT Summer 2020 - Two Pints of Saline and Abacavir for Drip

«‹›491 »

ContinuityNewTimes: Dec 30, 2010; Я выдуман напрочь

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Amazing brexit thread:

https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/1277505330885386240?s=20

Probably true of many brexit voters (though they all swear they knew what they were voting for).

I fully believe the British expat is a stupid enough creature but that thread has strong poo poo that didn't happen energy

# ? Jun 29, 2020 19:33

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 27, 2024 09:44

RockyB: Mar 8, 2007; Dog Therapy: Shockingly Good

Hmm, so Iran is posturing against Trumps blatant assassination of one of their generals. What's Keir doing, other than sucking up to the police and alienating BAME voters?

https://twitter.com/markcurtis30/status/1277649326362198016

Ah. A return to traditional Blairite 'kill em all and let a multi-culturally diverse deity figure sort them out' policies it is then.

Fake Edit: I spent far too long looking for the remix of the Jo Swinson nuke them all answer so you get this instead

https://twitter.com/tomilo/status/1196947960694812672

# ? Jun 29, 2020 19:35

justcola: May 22, 2004; La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo

The thing I find most infuriating about Keir Starmer is I don't think he will win, so all this is for nowt.

The last 30 years of elections have pretty much been won by who was more interesting/least boring. Blair v Major, Blair v Hague, Blair v Howard, Cameron v Brown, Cameron v Milliband, Corbyn* v May, Johnson v Corbyn

*the 2017 election was won by the more boring candidate, though it was extremely close. And though Corbyn himself is relatively boring, he seemed passionate about policies and if it hadn't been for all the sabotage and smearing I reckon he'd have won.

I think what drives someone to vote for someone interesting is that it can capture the imagination and make people believe things can change. Unless you don't want change, as you're comfortable (and probably order the same thing from a takeaway every time and buy Fifa every year etc.) - I don't really see what Keir stands for yet and he has only captured my imagination the same way that pitch drop experiments do - in that 'why the gently caress would you let a pitch drop experiment run for election in a world that feels on the brink of destruction'.

And for those saying 'hey stay in the Labour party to try and bring it back leftward' - you may as well join the Conservative party and swing that left. Keir Starmer is the perfect politician for someone who has never suffered, as it seems very cosy and Sorkinesque an idea that someone will win by following the rules. Probably the same shower of cunts who get into decades long disputes about garden fences or who can't understand how young people would listen to music 'before their time'. Feels like the moments too vital and important to be pissing about with these twerps.

Breath Ray posted:

Feels like 'more police' and 'free summer meals' have decent traction with the public. A 'hard stance' on trans issues just feels like fiddling while Rome burns, especially if a) it's true that countries with better trans rights developed those through the back door, bundled with other stuff and b) it's not a vote winner by itself and even trans activists don't consider it a single issue.

The antisemitism thing was just a handy way to dismiss RLB and distance him from a leader seen as weak and untrustworthy. Don't think the average voter minds about a/s too much one way or the other.

You can gently caress off too.

justcola fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jun 29, 2020

# ? Jun 29, 2020 19:44

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

bessantj posted:

So what new problems are the leave voters going to face? I assume that they're worried they'll have difficulty retiring to France once the U.K. leaves the E.U. and returns to glorious isolation?

If they've got property in the EU then potentially they'll have issues around whatever bank account they might have to pay taxes and maintenance as it's probably in an EU country to access the right currency but the T&Cs will mean the accounts can only be offered to EU citizens so they'll have to sort that out and then the issue of the exchange rate keeps kicking harder and harder as time goes on. Visiting their property will require using non-EU citizen access routes and have restrictions including visas and greater difficulties if they intend to live there. Any future legal difficulties will get harder and harder to manage as they now need local expertise because British law professionals may not have recognition in the EU country as required and as legal codes diverge then British knowledge becomes less and less useful.

Basically doing anything in other countries is actually very difficult unless your countries have an agreement to make that thing very easy to do. It was kind of the point of the EU.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 19:51

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Reminder in case you missed it in the last page but Breath Ray sincerely said Theresa May would be the best PM we ever had. To call them stupid would be a gross understatement.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 19:56

sebzilla: Mar 17, 2009; Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.

I'll be honest, friends, being furloughed for three months and being able to spend all my time with my family without worrying about my continued ability to live in a house and eat food has really made me resent having to work all the loving time now that I'm back. It's properly poo poo and I don't know why we stand for it.

Hopefully several million other people feel the same.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 19:57

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Unfortunatley the country is also full of people whose marriages only function because both halves never see each other.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 20:01

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

bessantj posted:

So what new problems are the leave voters going to face? I assume that they're worried they'll have difficulty retiring to France once the U.K. leaves the E.U. and returns to glorious isolation?

Something came out about healthcare today for anyone moving to the EU after 31st Dec 2020.

https://europestreet.news/uk-ditches-healthcare-coverage-for-pensioners-moving-to-eu-after-brexit/

quote:

UK ditches healthcare coverage for pensioners moving to EU after Brexit transition
27th June 2020 0 Comments Brexit, pensioners, pensions, social security, unemployment
TWEET
SHARE0
REDDIT
LINKEDIN0
EMAIL
The dream of many British pensioners to retire in a Mediterranean country may be crushed by the new Brexit reality. Under a proposal by the British government, from January 2021 the UK will no longer reimburse healthcare for pensioners who move to EU countries.

The draft negotiating text on the future relationship with the EU published in May also cuts social security benefits for people who move between the UK and the EU from next year. These benefits include the possibility to receive carer allowances or to aggregate periods of contributions to be entitled to unemployment allowances.

The proposals concern only people who will move between the UK and the EU after the Brexit transition period, which ends on December 31st, 2020. EU nationals in the UK and British nationals in the EU before that date, and their family members, are protected by the withdrawal agreement and will continue to benefit from the current system. Separate rules, similar to the EU�s, also apply to people moving between the UK and Ireland.

How the EU system works
EU social security regulations cover cash benefits, such as pensions, and healthcare, for people moving across the countries of the European Economic Area and Switzerland.

EU member states remain responsible for their own social security systems, but the EU coordination provides a common framework for people who, over their lifetime, are exposed to multiple systems. The idea is to remove financial and bureaucratic obstacles that individuals would face when dealing with different systems, so they are not penalized nor discouraged from moving.

These common rules are based on four principles: the one country principle, so that a person is liable to the social security system of only one country at a time; the non-discrimination principle, so that people moving to another EU country have the same rights and obligations as nationals of that country; the aggregation principle, so that periods of insurance, employment or residence in other EU states are taken into account when determining a person�s eligibility for benefits; and the exportability principle, so that people can continue receiving benefits even if they move to another member state.

EU rules also define which country is responsible for the social security of people sent to work temporarily in another member state (posted workers), and of people who live in a country and work in another (frontier workers).

All this is supported by administrative links by which countries exchange information, share data and resolve disputes.

Friends without benefits
With the political declaration attached to the withdrawal agreement, the EU and the UK committed to �consider� social security coordination in future arrangements.

The EU published on March 18th a draft treaty, proposing to continue the existing coordination on pensions. The EU also aims to maintain existing rules for sickness, maternity and paternity, unemployment, accidents at work and occupational diseases, invalidity, survivors�, death grants, pre-retirement, family and old age benefits. However, these would cover only pensioners, researchers, students, trainees, people on youth exchanges and their family members. There are no provisions for the self-employed, for example.

The British government responded on May 19th with a series of legal texts expressing its desiderata for the future relationship, including a draft social security coordination agreement. This covers old age pensions, but excludes other cash benefits.

In short, old age pensions are the only benefit for which both the UK and the EU intend to continue the current system.

The reason of the UK approach is explained in a government statement of February 27th. The British government said it would seek similar arrangements to those the UK has with non-EU countries. In addition, the UK does not want to refer to the EU Court for Justice for the resolution of disputes.

But Adrian Berry, immigration barrister at Garden Court Chambers in London, told Europe Street that �bilateral treaties, like that with Australia, are nowhere near as sophisticated as the EU social security system� and that British nationals will be disadvantaged in EU member states.

For example, a British person moving to France for work will start contributing into the French system from zero. In case he or she will lose the job, previous periods of work in the UK will not count towards the insurance period required to be eligible for the unemployment allowance. The same would be for a person who moves from the EU to the UK for work and falls ill, for instance.

People sent to work temporarily to the UK by their EU employers, or vice versa, will continue to contribute to the social security system of the country they come from for up to two years, as it is the case under EU rules on posted workers. But it is not clear what will happen afterwards.

Outside EU rules, some social security benefits are covered under the 1972 European Convention on Social Security, which is not related to the EU, and by earlier bilateral agreements. But the UK and several EU countries have not signed nor ratified the Convention. In addition, not all EU countries have bilateral agreements with the UK. And all these provisions are less comprehensive than the EU�s.

�I don�t think the government has even analysed the impacts of such approach in terms of restrictions of options for people,� Mr Berry said. �UK citizens will find themselves at a disadvantage in respect of social security benefits in the EU, for example if they fall ill or become unemployed while working in an EU member state. But also, if a UK company sends a UK employee to work in its Paris office, it won�t be able to extend the contract beyond two years without losing all that was accrued before in terms of social security. Equally, it will disadvantage the people who move from the EU to the UK from next year. This will make UK businesses uncompetitive, it�s entirely self-defeating.�

The European Parliament has also intervened with a recent resolution calling on negotiators to look again at the situation, considering especially the lack of unemployment benefits for posted and frontier workers.

Reciprocal healthcare
On healthcare, the EU and the UK agree to continue the reimbursement of �necessary� treatments during temporary stays abroad, which is currently possible with the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC). This would cover tourists, frontier workers, and posted workers for up to 24 months.

But the UK has no plans to reimburse healthcare charges for pensioners and other people receiving long-term exportable benefits moving to the EU after Brexit (the current S1 system). Nor are there provisions for planned treatments abroad (S2 system and Patients Rights Directive). The mutual recognition of medical prescriptions will be lost too.

�The proposed new system is a complete blow for middle income people moving across borders and the main group that will suffer from it are people with disabilities, who can currently get the pension from their own country and free healthcare. Not having access to it is a big deal for them,� Adrian Berry said.

A 2018 report by the House of Lords EU Committee noted that the cost of treating pensioners in the EU was often cheaper than in the UK. Spain�s pensioner average cost, for example, was �4,173 compared with �4,396 in the UK.

The report also said that the S2 scheme was �especially valuable for patients with rare diseases or in border situations, where the nearest suitable facilities might be in a different country.� In 2016, 1,342 UK citizens benefited of the S2 system, and about 1,100 EU, EEA and Switzerland nationals were treated in the UK, according to the paper.

�For people living with long-term health conditions (including those needing frequent dialysis, or who suffer from rare diseases), reciprocal arrangements mean that they can avoid the high insurance costs that would otherwise make travel prohibitively expensive,� the report also says.

Speaking in the committee at that time, Professor Martin McKee of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine had �no doubt� that changes to reciprocal healthcare represented a �wonderful opportunity� for the insurance industry.

The UK is likely to seek bilateral agreements with EU countries in the future, as social security is not an exclusive competence of the EU. But that would create a fragmented and even more complex system.

Social security is on the agenda of talks on the future EU-UK relationship taking place in Brussels on July 2nd.

More details are available from the House of Commons Library.

Not sure what else they may or may not know about.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 20:01

Oh dear me: Aug 14, 2012; I have burned numerous saucepans, sometimes right through the metal

justcola posted:

And for those saying 'hey stay in the Labour party to try and bring it back leftward' - you may as well join the Conservative party and swing that left.

The Conservative Party lets its members have even less say internally, there is no point in joining it even if you're Tory.

It also does not already contain a large body of comrades who would appreciate your support.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 20:06

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

OwlFancier posted:

Unfortunatley the country is also full of people whose marriages only function because both halves never see each other.

As a long time single person I'm hoping for a personal Renaissance in the dating scene tbh.

sebzilla posted:

I'll be honest, friends, being furloughed for three months and being able to spend all my time with my family without worrying about my continued ability to live in a house and eat food has really made me resent having to work all the loving time now that I'm back. It's properly poo poo and I don't know why we stand for it.

Hopefully several million other people feel the same.

Our labour force participation rate is actually really high due to all kinds of infuriating reasons like our collapsing economy and welfare state but I do expect this experience to knock a few points off as households somehow find ways of being poorer but happier.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 20:15

happyhippy: Feb 21, 2005; Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup; Pillbug

bessantj posted:

So what new problems are the leave voters going to face? I assume that they're worried they'll have difficulty retiring to France once the U.K. leaves the E.U. and returns to glorious isolation?

Brits in Germany post-Brexit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG70hOsRAXs

Not sure if this was posted here or if I watched it randomly on YT.

Basically, nobody knows as its not defined yet.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 20:41

happyhippy: Feb 21, 2005; Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup; Pillbug

https://twitter.com/RachaelMaskell/status/1277290045335052289

# ? Jun 29, 2020 20:43

bessantj: Jul 27, 2004

namesake posted:

If they've got property in the EU then potentially they'll have issues around whatever bank account they might have to pay taxes and maintenance as it's probably in an EU country to access the right currency but the T&Cs will mean the accounts can only be offered to EU citizens so they'll have to sort that out and then the issue of the exchange rate keeps kicking harder and harder as time goes on. Visiting their property will require using non-EU citizen access routes and have restrictions including visas and greater difficulties if they intend to live there. Any future legal difficulties will get harder and harder to manage as they now need local expertise because British law professionals may not have recognition in the EU country as required and as legal codes diverge then British knowledge becomes less and less useful.

Basically doing anything in other countries is actually very difficult unless your countries have an agreement to make that thing very easy to do. It was kind of the point of the EU.

So they could still retire there but its going to be a lot more difficult.

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Something came out about healthcare today for anyone moving to the EU after 31st Dec 2020.

Heh.

happyhippy posted:

Brits in Germany post-Brexit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG70hOsRAXs

Not sure if this was posted here or if I watched it randomly on YT.

Basically, nobody knows as its not defined yet.

Will it ever be defined.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 20:43

SpitefulHammer: Dec 27, 2012

Continuity RCP posted:

I fully believe the British expat is a stupid enough creature but that thread has strong poo poo that didn't happen energy

I was going to say the same, stupid people like that couple exist - but the son constantly calling him and, well basically everything about the son reads like bollocks.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 20:48

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Obvious bollocks

# ? Jun 29, 2020 20:58

Marmaduke!: May 19, 2009; Why would it do that!?

justcola posted:

The thing I find most infuriating about Keir Starmer is I don't think he will win, so all this is for nowt.

Really, there are only two ways a Labour opposition can win: convince tories to become more left wing so they vote Labour, or have the party become more right wing instead. He's clearly going for the latter option, and so the danger is that if Labour does win the next election, he'll probably end up continuing with most of the tories' policies, and he'll probably actually do a better job of implementing them than any tory would so hellworld will only get worse. But more likely we'd get a hung parliament and so the lib dems would triumphantly be kingmakers for the tories.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 20:58

Doctor_Fruitbat: Jun 2, 2013

SpitefulHammer posted:

I was going to say the same, stupid people like that couple exist - but the son constantly calling him and, well basically everything about the son reads like bollocks.

I dunno, I caught one of those garbage cop programmes on Dave once and there were a group of lads calling the cops into a premises and demanding to know what the government was going to do about it, 'it' in this case being a hotel refusing to let six people sleep in a four person room, so I can definitely believe that level of dimwitted arrogance.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 21:01

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Amazing brexit thread:

https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/1277505330885386240?s=20

Probably true of many brexit voters (though they all swear they knew what they were voting for).

# ? Jun 29, 2020 21:20

Trainee PornStar: Jul 20, 2006; I'm just an inbetweener

Continuity RCP posted:

I fully believe the British expat is a stupid enough creature but that thread has strong poo poo that didn't happen energy

A mate of mine has a brother who bought a house in France, said mate is still convinced he can carry on 'just popping over for the weekend'

# ? Jun 29, 2020 21:30

DesperateDan: Dec 10, 2005; Where's my cow?

Is that my cow?

No it isn't, but it still tramples my bloody lavender.

The brexidiot tweet thread strikes me like a lot of poo poo that didn't happen tales in that it probably has origins in reality but got twisted up by the authors desires to put forward a numero uno cool guy self insert versus the total idiot fuckwad who holds contrary beliefs

The scenario is totally valid, the writing reads like bad tv tropes

# ? Jun 29, 2020 21:31

atal: Aug 13, 2006; burning down the house

you, a povvo who is holds just one citizenship: brexit is going to upset my life badly

me, an intellectual with the cultural or monetary capital/blind luck to have dual citizenship: heh, EPIC OWN

# ? Jun 29, 2020 21:36

Camrath: Mar 19, 2004; The UKMT Fudge Baron

Trainee PornStar posted:

A mate of mine has a brother who bought a house in France, said mate is still convinced he can carry on 'just popping over for the weekend'

My parents are currently living at their place in france; we're able to afford it through letting it out as a holiday home but that's gone up in smoke due to covid. And with Brexit on the horizon too, it's going to be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of years. Still waiting for my brexiteer dad to realise just how much he's hosed himself (and all the rest of the family).

# ? Jun 29, 2020 21:39

Bobby Deluxe: May 9, 2004

Marmaduke! posted:

But more likely we'd get a hung parliament and so the lib dems would triumphantly be kingmakers for the tories.

The gladwell node in my brain just got tempted by the idea that the tories consistent shitness is a gambit to place their opposition as anti-tory, which the lib dems can exploit, split the opposition, and then enter coalition every few years.

But rationally, I think they're just doing the same balancing act between poo poo and evil, and the Libs just exploited that.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 21:42

big scary monsters: Sep 2, 2011; -~Ｓｋｕｌｌｗａｖｅ~-

FBPE types are so smugly self-righteous and unappealing that whenever they try and dunk on Brexiteers for being crass English stereotypes it makes me want to support Brexit just to be on the other side of the argument to them.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 22:00

nurmie: Dec 8, 2019

big scary monsters posted:

FBPE types are so smugly self-righteous and unappealing that whenever they try and dunk on Brexiteers for being crass English stereotypes it makes me want to support Brexit just to be on the other side of the argument to them.

I find FBPE people, more often than not, more unappealing and annoying than an average Brexiteer, and I'm an actual EU migrant. Brexiteers just don't elicit that much of an emotional response in comparison.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 22:05

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

big scary monsters posted:

FBPE types are so smugly self-righteous and unappealing that whenever they try and dunk on Brexiteers for being crass English stereotypes it makes me want to support Brexit just to be on the other side of the argument to them.

Like the main reasons I don't are the fact that we all knew a Tory Brexit would be a poo poo show and there was no socialist party that could do a less poo poo one, and the number of people supporting Brexit who were full

# ? Jun 29, 2020 22:06

atal: Aug 13, 2006; burning down the house

big scary monsters posted:

FBPE types are so smugly self-righteous and unappealing that whenever they try and dunk on Brexiteers for being crass English stereotypes it makes me want to support Brexit just to be on the other side of the argument to them.

You could avoid all of this by being born into the right family, or working a job which regularly means working side by side with people from the EU

it's like you people want brexit to succeed

atal fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jun 29, 2020

# ? Jun 29, 2020 22:07

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

https://twitter.com/Kotaku/status/1277703632226574340?s=19

Ahahahahahaha

# ? Jun 29, 2020 22:10

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

It's very impressive how many people she's alienating.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 22:19

Small Strange Bird: Sep 22, 2006; Merci, chaton!

Welp, didn't take long for Labour under Starmer to reveal that it wants to be Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition in the most literal and Establishment way possible: by maintaining that the system is absolutely fine the way it is, they'd just like a turn at running it.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 22:25

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

big scary monsters posted:

FBPE types are so smugly self-righteous and unappealing that whenever they try and dunk on Brexiteers for being crass English stereotypes it makes me want to support Brexit just to be on the other side of the argument to them.

FBPE types: "Urgh, you blinkered Lefties, all huddled together in your little comfort zone, hurling abuse at anyone outside of it. A real winning proposition, I don't think! Understand why you keep losing yet, losers?"

Also FBPE types: "Urgh, these ghastly, uncultured, Sun-reading Brexiters! Don't you people get how THICK you are? Regretting your vote yet, MORONS? Remain would sweep a 2nd referendum, why, I don't know a single person who'd consider voting to Leave!"

# ? Jun 29, 2020 22:28

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

big scary monsters posted:

FBPE types are so smugly self-righteous and unappealing that whenever they try and dunk on Brexiteers for being crass English stereotypes it makes me want to support Brexit just to be on the other side of the argument to them.

that's some culture war bullshit. be better than that

# ? Jun 29, 2020 22:46

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Joint statement from various unions on LP changing voting rules without going through conference:

https://twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1277708329117237259?s=20

There may be trouble ahead...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjJHnKw7YNA

# ? Jun 29, 2020 22:50

kingturnip: Apr 18, 2008

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Joint statement from various unions on LP changing voting rules without going through conference:

Not Unison, of course. gently caress me, they're poo poo.

# ? Jun 29, 2020 23:00

MikeCrotch: Nov 5, 2011; I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

The whole point of backing Starmer was to get a seat at the top table (like Unite did with Corbyn) son of course Unison aren't going to complain

# ? Jun 29, 2020 23:22

Breath Ray: Nov 19, 2010

ronya posted:

it's politics by focus group - on policing there is solid support for more police rather than less; this hasn't changed in the past few years and it doesn't look to be shifting now. The US phenomenon of excess police funding is a US phenomenon, not a UK phenomenon. Same reason Corbyn hopped on that boat to begin with. It's not like it was a comfortable position to adopt.

on coronavirus lockdowns there is support for more caution in general but also support for dismantling measures in the specific - hence Johnson serially trying to bait Labour into opposing specific easing measure whilst Starmer tries to hit Johnson on caution in the general. "60k dead" is an attack that only makes sense to an already anti-Tory frame, just as the ### DEAD FROM AUSTERITY only made sense in that frame. Resentment of particular measures really sticks. I don't think Starmer has to hit Johnson all that hard for the idea of Johnson as careless with lives to stick - it's a natural fit to the image Johnson sets out for himself - whilst he does have to avoid getting tarred with having pushed too hard for particular lockdown measures

fwiw I think Corbyn would have taken every BLM bait and then some; it's catnip to his politics and it falls into the group of topics where he's willing to endlessly burn political capital to fight for a certain message (see also: Skripal). In an alternate universe not too different from ours every headline is screaming about Labour's self-evident untrustworthiness when the Labour Leader swore hand on heart last year that he will, will Reverse These Tory Cuts, he will Put Bobbies On The Street To Halt Knife Crime And Keep You Safe, yes he and Home Secretary Abbott love the coppers now, will the Prime Minister apologise to the police (and because this hypothetical universe isn't that different from ours, none of the headlines particularly care about whether Johnson is adhering to his promises for Even Bigger Numbers. That's not a story, and it's especially not a story because Johnson will act to make it tedious to cover whilst Corbyn would do the opposite, precisely because Corbyn would want to go to bat for this particular message).

whether or not that sacrifice for those values would be worth it, well, that's ultimately a political judgment innit. Every political leader has some set of values they're willing to sacrifice political capital for; the trick is assuring enough one of one's tent that it's their values that are most prized (and, conversely, for those that prioritize those values, making sure that it really is - whilst still winning power, of course)

re your faith in the idea of political capital. it seems a bit simplistic to me, a bit like 'the nation's current account'. do you think it is a finite thing ebbing away over the course of (say) a parliament, with eg dementia tax proposals, u-turns and scandals accelerating the ebb? can the ebb ever be reversed? can it be built/topped up now and then and if you can burn political capital 'endlessly' what is the value of the term?

# ? Jun 29, 2020 23:27

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Anyone know anything about "Independent Left" - the Dublin-based party?

I was just mulling whether at town council level some 'independent left' representation would be worth pursuing, then I found that there's a 'non party' called that in Ireland.
In my town we have Independents (who are usually tories who fell out with the party - I think they are the majority on the town council), Indys (a 'flatpack democracy' group - who I think of as the Yummy Mummy party - quite a popular and quite large grouping who 'are not political'), 1 Labour (and she's only there because she defected from the Indys and will probably not get in again despite she does a huge amount of work locally but we are tory town and people won't vote Labour in this town) and 1 libdem I think.
As there are town council elections next year, maybe it's worth thinking about.

(link to Independent Left https://independentleft.ie/)

# ? Jun 29, 2020 23:50

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

https://twitter.com/tristandross/status/1277704264278847489?s=20

# ? Jun 30, 2020 00:09

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

lmao

https://twitter.com/bbchealth/status/1277682813333012481?s=20

# ? Jun 30, 2020 00:12

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 27, 2024 09:44

Marmaduke!: May 19, 2009; Why would it do that!?

It's okay it's just the flu

# ? Jun 30, 2020 00:23

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT Summer 2020 - Two Pints of Saline and Abacavir for Drip

«‹›491 »