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Carbolic posted:The mayor of Carmel, California from 1986-88. Crooow! posted:Clint Eastwood Huh. Now I'm wondering what the rationale was. Jenner and Owens at least had a whole athletics theme to them. Clint Eastwood is high maintenance and breaks down a lot? Its useless? But not for long. The future is coming on.
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Jun 28, 2020 20:02
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The Clint is pretty notorious for having an ammo feed that jams constantly, is prone to breaking down, and it was built using virtually no standardized parts to make the buyer beholden to the manufacturer to keep it working. Which was all well and good for the manufacturer until the Succession Wars obliterated the Clint factory and everyone even tangentially associated with it (as well as the original blueprints for the Clint). It's basically the iPhone of BattleMechs, it's nearly as notorious as the Charger and far more rare. The old 4th edition box gave it some great art, though:  Also featuring: the first example of an MWDA-style external ammo feed! PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jun 28, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 20:16
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Huh. Now I'm wondering what the rationale was. Jenner and Owens at least had a whole athletics theme to them. I am feeling really old here... Eastwood, from his younger days, is well-known for playing gunslingers in Western films. See for example the Man With No Name. Autocannon in the Clint's hand - you presumably get the connection.
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Jun 28, 2020 20:25
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Carbolic posted:I am feeling really old here... No I know I figured there was something more. handheld guns on mechs kinda predate it and autocannons in the right arm aren't exactly unique to the point where the Clint isn't even the first example I'd think o--- gently caress 
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Jun 28, 2020 20:41
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3025 is full of references. The Spider may have gotten a lot better at hiding the fact that it's a Spider Man reference these days, but its 3060s upgrade is still the Venom. 
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Jun 28, 2020 20:59
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I should say I'm not against references, what's really dumb is having the characters all talk about them like 19th century Earth history events are things everyone things about all the time. Like the Spider is a Spider-Man reference, but it's never made explicit. The in-universe reason for the name is the way it can twitch in the air while jumping to avoid fire. Nobody ever goes "we put up posters comparing you to Peter Parker because you drive a Spider."
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Jun 28, 2020 21:13
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Exactly: it's the difference between "oh ho ho, I see what they were doing there" vs. a literal shout out in the text like "named after a door to door encyclopedia salesman from Skokie Illinois in ancient Terra..."
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Jun 28, 2020 21:49
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I still enjoy the demolitionmech's chassis designation.
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Jun 28, 2020 21:50
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I'm not in disagreement and I'm certainly not defending Pardoe.
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Jun 28, 2020 22:29
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Whose references are worse (setting aside the obvious shithead politics of Pardoe): that the ACW is important enough to be used as a recruiting tool, or just repeating the watermelon bit from Buckaroo Banzai word for word?
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Jun 29, 2020 00:33
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Natasha "The Black Widow"
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Jun 29, 2020 00:46
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Even 'Kerensky' is a weird historical reference
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Jun 29, 2020 05:07
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What about naming actual Deep Periphery polities "the Hanseatic League," "Nueva Castile," and "the Umayyad Caliphate"?
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Jun 30, 2020 04:06
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Very dumb, but the Scorps have already done away with two of them and it looks like they're aiming to finish out the set.
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Jun 30, 2020 04:22
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None of the historical references will ever annoy me as much as the ranks of Major General and Lieutenant General being swapped.
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Jun 30, 2020 05:12
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The whole setting makes very little sense if you let it get away from "its an excuse for robots to fight"
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Jun 30, 2020 13:02
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I played a game of Megamek which implies that mechs make a pilot test if they take 20 or more damage, I don't see that in the Armored combat rules. I read the succession wars chaos campaign and why do they have a bunch of rules for drop podding into a planet if none of the tracks use that? How does salvage work?
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Jul 1, 2020 13:59
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Baron Porkface posted:I played a game of Megamek which implies that mechs make a pilot test if they take 20 or more damage, I don't see that in the Armored combat rules. The PSR is basically to see if they fall over from taking so much damage, they also stack if you somehow end up taking like 40+ damage in a single round.
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Jul 1, 2020 14:02
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Right but i don;t see any reference to that in the core set rules.
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Jul 1, 2020 14:38
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Baron Porkface posted:Right but i don;t see any reference to that in the core set rules. The rules in the box set are the Fast Play rules. Total Warfare is the core rules. BattleTech has been around forever and has a lot of play levels / rules levels. Fast Play is the slimmed down, bare minimum ruleset to introduce new players to the game. Total Warfare is the complete core rules with all the bells and whistles, but there's a lot to remember so it's better to look into it after you have a solid grasp of the Fast Play rules. This is the ruleset that MegaMek uses. BattleMech Manual is the core rules, but for playing with 'Mechs only (no vehicle or infantry rules). BMM also contains some optional rules to make 'Mech vs. 'Mech only more interesting. Tactical Operations / Strategic Operations are books of optional rules to spice up the game, they're as big as Total Warfare itself but you don't need any of them for the complete game experience. TacOps adds more options for the tabletop game, while StratOps is more of a campaign guidebook. Then, there's the OTHER game. Alpha Strike is a different (but similar) game set in the same universe designed to let you run large numbers of 'Mechs quickly (and was designed for play without hex maps, but you can bring hex maps back in very easily by halving every 'Mech's movement value and conforming to the hex map). Even though many of the rules can be very similar it is a completely different game and has its own set of optional rules as well. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jul 1, 2020 |
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Jul 1, 2020 14:57
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Well that's annoying. And adds further mystery to why anyone would buy The Battletech Manual.
Baron Porkface fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Jul 1, 2020 |
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Jul 1, 2020 15:04
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The BattleMech Manual does have the rules for the 20+ damage PSR, it's on the piloting skill rolls table on page 54. Page 53 explains that most every entry on that table causes a PSR (I actually consider it an editing failure that they don't clearly make the few that don't). If multiple entries on that table happen in the same turn you roll 1 PSR for each. So if a 'Mech takes 20 damage, a gyro hit, and foot actuator damage that 'Mech rolls 3 PSRs until it either passes all of them or one of them knocks it down. The 20+ damage PSR does not stack. It's a +1 even if the 'Mech takes 120+ damage in one turn. There is a scaling version of this as an optional rule, which the BMM includes on page 55!  Edit: However, and this is important, I view any rule that you don't enjoy to be optional unless ignoring it makes the game unplayable. You can ignore (or forget!) a lot of the game's rules and still play a complete game. As long as you had fun you weren't playing incorrectly. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jul 1, 2020 |
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Jul 1, 2020 15:15
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Baron Porkface posted:Well that's annoying. And adds further mystery to why anyone would buy The Battletech Manual. Battletech has basically a Mt. Everest of rules that you and pick at choose from depending on how grognard-y you want to get with it. For example! PoptartsNinja posted:The 20+ damage PSR does not stack. It's a +1 even if the 'Mech takes 120+ damage in one turn. There is a scaling version of this as an optional rule, which the BMM includes on page 55! Ah, my bad. I always played with the stacking PSR rule.
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Jul 1, 2020 15:19
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Are there any other basic combat rules changes between Armored Combat and BMM/Total Warfare I should know about when playing Megamek or reading Poptarts LP?
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Jul 1, 2020 15:22
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I run a lot of house rules to make playing BattleTech on the forums easier on myself. Normally critical hits are rolled the instant an attack scores one, but adding the roll to every attack would clutter up the screen and make it harder to see what 'Mech has taken what critical damage. I save them until later to keep the display clean and so I can ignore any crits on sections that got blown off. Likewise, I usually ignore the PSR for running on pavement, and there are several other "core" rules I've either modified or ignore outright. So long as you know the basics of Move -> Attack -> Melee (-> Cooldown -> End Phase) you'll be fine. I've never actually shown the cooldown phase in the LP, I include the weapon heat / overheat right when the attacks happen so readers can see the cause->effect immediately, but I'm still applying the heat at the end of the turn like I'm supposed to. 
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Jul 1, 2020 15:30
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Taintrunner posted:Battletech has basically a Mt. Everest of rules that you and pick at choose from depending on how grognard-y you want to get with it. Even if you go hardcore I don't see a reason to pay for BMM instead of getting more for Total Warfare. Baron Porkface fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Jul 1, 2020 |
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Jul 1, 2020 15:31
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I know a lot of people that only play with battlemechs 
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Jul 1, 2020 15:34
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But both books have the same price. One has more stuff.
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Jul 1, 2020 15:41
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Catalyst Game Labs is a very strange company.
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Jul 1, 2020 15:45
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Taintrunner posted:Catalyst Game Labs is a very strange company.
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Jul 1, 2020 15:47
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To be fair, I carry a lot of poo poo to Battletech meets, and would probably try to only carry the slimmer version if I was tight on space.
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Jul 1, 2020 15:48
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^^^ I don't even bring the rulebooks anymore, I run Alpha Strike from memory with my tabletop players. If we have any rules questions we jot them down for next week and keep playing as-is. To get every one of the "frequently used" optional rules listed in the BMM you'd need Total Warfare, Tactical Operations, and Strategic Operations which is 3x the price. Plus, no other manual contains the complete list of 'Mech quirks and which 'Mech they apply to. Since 'mech quirks are usually fun (unless they're loving over your favorite unit, if they are give it a good quirk to compensate) and the only place you can get them all together is the BMM. Catalyst still wants to sell the Total Warfare books if they can, but for what it lets you do (run 'Mechs) the BMM does its job pretty well. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jul 1, 2020 |
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Jul 1, 2020 15:50
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Skidding rules in urban games are a nightmare of bloat. Check the skid modifier, oh he skidded into a building, check the construction factor rules, roll for collapse, look up damage for collapses, roll for basements, look up fall damage rules for falling two levels, roll hit locations for those, check pilot consciousness...all because somebody decided to run around a corner.
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Jul 1, 2020 16:13
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That said the above procedure did produce one of the most memorably unlikely turn one kills I’ve ever seen, and therein I guess lies the paradox.
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Jul 1, 2020 16:14
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Skid into building, building has a basement, skidding damage was enough to collapse the building hex, 'Mech in basement instantly killed by collapsing building?
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Jul 1, 2020 16:16
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Wait... you have to check and see for basements? This is new to me.
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Jul 1, 2020 16:16
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General Battuta posted:Skidding rules in urban games are a nightmare of bloat. Check the skid modifier, oh he skidded into a building, check the construction factor rules, roll for collapse, look up damage for collapses, roll for basements, look up fall damage rules for falling two levels, roll hit locations for those, check pilot consciousness...all because somebody decided to run around a corner. CityTech: Do not run, walk swiftly.
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Jul 1, 2020 17:27
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PoptartsNinja posted:Skid into building, building has a basement, skidding damage was enough to collapse the building hex, 'Mech in basement instantly killed by collapsing building? Almost dead on, but with an even better elaboration, he fell into a triple basement on his head and knocked himself out.
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Jul 1, 2020 18:58
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Taintrunner posted:Wait... you have to check and see for basements? This is new to me. I mean... you don't HAVE to.
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Jul 1, 2020 19:33
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Baron Porkface posted:I played a game of Megamek which implies that mechs make a pilot test if they take 20 or more damage, I don't see that in the Armored combat rules. Page 40 has the section for taking a PSR if you took 20 or more damage in a phase. It's the very first modifier listed on the table on page 41. Baron Porkface posted:I read the succession wars chaos campaign and why do they have a bunch of rules for drop podding into a planet if none of the tracks use that? BattleTech has, and has always had, a contingent of fans that want rules for literally everything that has ever been mentioned in a book, and they will loudly complain until that happens. This is something that happens in books occasionally and is genuinely cool, so it has rules for it even if none of the default tracks include their use, because the assumption is that eventually players will start to modify tracks so they stay fresh. Baron Porkface posted:How does salvage work? In long and complicated fashion. Units that are destroyed in combat may not be rendered totally unusable. If you destroy a 'Mech's left arm but don't land a critical hit on the... for example's sake we'll go with PPC that's mounted there, if you control the battlefield at the end of the game there's a good chance your techs can take the arm with you, and rip the PPC out of its mounting to use somewhere else. 'Mechs that are destroyed by any of the following methods are totally destroyed and don't even leave debris to pick up: - Artillery/Area of Effect damage that destroys the center torso - Ammunition Explosions that destroy the center torso 'Mechs that are destroyed by losing their last point of center torso structure to damage not one of the above two ways can still have components and any armor left stripped, but can't be refurbished or put back into the field. 'Mechs that are destroyed by any of the following methods can be repaired and pressed back into service: - Head destroyed - Pilot killed - Pilot ejected - 3x engine hits or locations with cumulatively three engine locations are destroyed If you're using Strat Ops rules, it takes loving forever to put something back into service and literally hundreds of 2d6 rolls to repair/replace everything, and it's best tracked through MekHQ or not at all. If you're using Chaos Campaign it's just a resource cost of some kind, I haven't actually used it before. Vehicles can only be salvaged if they are destroyed by the destruction of the turret location, or the crew killed critical hit result, if the crew bails out, and I think technically if a VTOLs rotor gets shot off and the crash wasn't enough to totally destroy it. Aerospace fighters are drat near impossible to salvage and the odds of getting one that you didn't shoot down and subsequently recover the ballistic wreckage in space are vanishingly small. Battle armor suits are just a flat 2d6 roll against I think a 10+ to see if the suit survived its catastrophic damage.
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Jul 1, 2020 19:40
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