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Deus Ex doesn’t have a particularly woke portrayal of gangsters, but Human Revolution is much worse
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Jul 2, 2020 01:44
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 19:13 |
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The pimp and Jojo are caricatures, more or less. And Maggie Chow is the same kind of "dragon lady" character that DXHR caught flak for in their Tai Yong medical exec.
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Jul 2, 2020 06:31
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I can't even tell what ethnicity they're supposed to be so maybe the low fidelity helped make it seem not racist?
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Jul 2, 2020 06:43
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Yeah the pimps are ethnically ambiguous and their way of talking sounds more like a future tough guy accent than any kind of gangster/ethnic I agree that no protagonist needs to have sex ever. Especially not in a world with nice safe growing vats for the next generation.
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Jul 2, 2020 08:46
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jojoinnit posted:I agree that no protagonist needs to have sex ever. Especially not in a world with nice safe growing vats for the next generation.
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Jul 2, 2020 09:21
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fuckpot posted:Counterpoint - Geralt. Lol I see what you're saying, but in the first witcher you get collectable half-naked pokemon cards of the women you tag. If the idea of ducking sex in the story is to avoid problematic, poorly written takes, the witcher isnt a great example.
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Jul 2, 2020 09:39
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Yeah I've never played any of the Witcher games but I'm pretty confident guessing that there's plenty of gross poo poo in those games but it's just one of those things that people have chosen to turn a blind eye to because the games are super popular
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Jul 2, 2020 09:52
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If the original DX was made today with the exact same writing but up-to-date graphics (even if the original was ugly as hell already on release), it would be universally panned as a bad joke. Maybe someone would commend it for its willingness to stick to the joke, but I think that would be it. The original was released in a world where standards for vidya james were a lot lower while managing to really embody a certain zeitgeist, and as an end result DX became universally loved. (and for good reason!) The attempts of HR and MD to somehow build something reasonably on-brand on that shaky foundation a decade later were already doomed from the start. I think the only really satisfactory route would've been to maintain the clunky RPG and free-world mechanics while really leaning on the camp, making a sort of self-parody with dark undertone of "see how much of the original has already come true?" Or at least that's how I feel after re-visiting HR and finding it a very good game if I only am willing forget it's a "Deus Ex" title.
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Jul 2, 2020 09:54
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Eason the Fifth posted:Lol I see what you're saying, but in the first witcher you get collectable half-naked pokemon cards of the women you tag. If the idea of ducking sex in the story is to avoid problematic, poorly written takes, the witcher isnt a great example. Are they actually collectable? I didn't play that game, but I did read this blog (which is pretty funny): quote:I approached this game having heard about collecting women, and before I started, I checked the player-created wiki, which reads: “Sex plays a prominent role in The Witcher where it takes the form of a mini-game involving collectible cards.” When I actually played, the so-called “mini-game” aspect was not all that apparent. You don’t have a special page in your menu where you can view all the cards at once, and admire them as a collection. You don’t get a little message at the end of the game telling you how many women you “scored” out of a possible total.
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Jul 2, 2020 10:17
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I got the urge to replay DX1 but I'm having trouble, I installed Kenties launcher, DX10 renderer and Biomod, made sure the DX10 renderer was enabled and FPS limit disabled, and when I play the FPS is locked at 100 with constant juddering. Any ideas what causes that?
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Jul 2, 2020 13:58
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Hubris
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Jul 2, 2020 17:20
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barbecue at the folks posted:If the original DX was made today with the exact same writing but up-to-date graphics (even if the original was ugly as hell already on release), it would be universally panned as a bad joke. Maybe someone would commend it for its willingness to stick to the joke, but I think that would be it. The original was released in a world where standards for vidya james were a lot lower while managing to really embody a certain zeitgeist, and as an end result DX became universally loved. (and for good reason!) I don't agree with this, but I'm not smart enough to articulate why. The most I can come up with is, "Good Things Are Good", Deus Ex didn't trick people into thinking it was good through low standards. this argument doesn't stand up for any games considered "classic" imo, like Doom or Diablo 2
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Jul 2, 2020 17:47
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I don't agree with this, but I'm not smart enough to articulate why. The most I can come up with is, "Good Things Are Good", Deus Ex didn't trick people into thinking it was good through low standards. this argument doesn't stand up for any games considered "classic" imo, like Doom or Diablo 2 Same. It's definitely not a matter of quality, but maybe part of it is that Deus Ex is literally peak pre-9/11 fiction. I know it was also almost 10 years ago, but Dark Souls is a good example of more recent jank and silliness but played completely straight and people absolutely loved it.
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Jul 2, 2020 17:54
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Good level design is timeless and Deus ex had some of the best level design in the history of immersive sims.
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Jul 2, 2020 17:56
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Eason the Fifth posted:Lol I see what you're saying, but in the first witcher you get collectable half-naked pokemon cards of the women you tag. Cat Mattress posted:Are they actually collectable? I didn't play that game, but I did read this blog (which is pretty funny): Okay, while I'm not willing to die on the hill of defining "collectable," I sort of feel like the same article reinforces the more important back half of my point: Eason the Fifth posted:If the idea of ducking sex in the story is to avoid problematic, poorly written takes, the witcher isnt a great example. article posted:I’m all in favour of recognising female libido and female sexual agency, which is why it’s annoying that the game so rarely follows through. Time and again, we see women express desire for Glabados, then when he reciprocates, they start demanding expensive gifts. Is it that the devs think they can’t make it too easy? Do they crowbar in these elements of challenge deliberately, and if so, why? Does the sex feel more worthwhile if it has to be “earned”? Certain encounters feel so sterile and mechanical that titillation seems a highly unlikely rationale for including them in the game. I wonder, again, what the aim of the sex in The Witcher is – seduction challenge or just sexy entertainment? Many encounters don’t manage either. (edit - lost the back part of this post, somehow:) So according to this article, the Witcher gets it right with the Lady of the Lake, but flounders in pretty much every other relationship. On top of that, Triss manipulates Geralt into sleeping with her by taking advantage of his amnesia. (The article speaks to this in part one.) If that relationship were reversed, people would be (rightfully) pointing out the max skeeze. Sex scenes are difficult in any medium because there's a fine line between gross titillation and having the scene have meaning inside the theme and premise, but in video games those scenes are especially easy to get wrong given a) the limitations of the engine, b) the ineptitude of the writers, depending on who's fielding the romance, and especially c) the target audience, who might get the idea that women and sex :: slot machines and jackpots. The article also makes this point. Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Jul 2, 2020 |
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Jul 2, 2020 18:16
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The moment I recall the most vividly about Witcher 1 is when I randomly stumbled on like, a mill or something. Some girl was inside and after a short exchange Geralt bangs her. You get the card. Its never brought up again afaik, just some weird random thing Meanwhile in Deus Ex, you can't even get a quickie from a prostitute! How far technology has come (tee hee)
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Jul 2, 2020 18:21
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I don't agree with this, but I'm not smart enough to articulate why. The most I can come up with is, "Good Things Are Good", Deus Ex didn't trick people into thinking it was good through low standards. this argument doesn't stand up for any games considered "classic" imo, like Doom or Diablo 2 I posted the CGW review from when it came out in here a while back, and it was 3.5 stars... and in the review they straight up said “star systems don’t make sense for this game, it’s flawed enough that I can’t give it a perfect score but this is going to be considered one of the best games ever down the line” type stuff at the end. It was interesting. E: Ugly In The Morning posted:I'm trying to find the CGW one. I think they ended up giving it like three and a half stars or something on the lower side like that.
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Jul 2, 2020 19:17
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:The moment I recall the most vividly about Witcher 1 is when I randomly stumbled on like, a mill or something. Some girl was inside and after a short exchange Geralt bangs her. You get the card. Its never brought up again afaik, just some weird random thing JC is very invested in his stone-cold cyborg persona, and he really doesn't want to have to explain that his penis isn't augmented when he fails to get it up. That would really cramp his style.
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Jul 2, 2020 19:49
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Paul definitely fucks, though.
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Jul 2, 2020 19:52
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Meanwhile in Deus Ex, you can't even get a quickie from a prostitute! How far technology has come (tee hee) I don't do no tricks with no augs, yo
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Jul 2, 2020 19:55
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Cat Mattress posted:JC is very invested in his stone-cold cyborg persona, and he really doesn't want to have to explain that his penis isn't augmented when he fails to get it up. That would really cramp his style.
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Jul 2, 2020 20:17
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:The moment I recall the most vividly about Witcher 1 is when I randomly stumbled on like, a mill or something. Some girl was inside and after a short exchange Geralt bangs her. You get the card. Its never brought up again afaik, just some weird random thing IIRC you had to have set up a "date" for that lady to be there for you to bang. It's still pretty random but not quite as much of a non sequitor as you remembered.
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Jul 2, 2020 20:50
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I don't agree with this, but I'm not smart enough to articulate why. The most I can come up with is, "Good Things Are Good", Deus Ex didn't trick people into thinking it was good through low standards. this argument doesn't stand up for any games considered "classic" imo, like Doom or Diablo 2 I think it's kind of a non-sequitur because Deus Ex is such a product of its time and is so groundbreaking and influential that you simply can't pluck it out of time and then plop it down twenty years later. Like if nothing else the kind of industry environment that led to its creation really doesn't exist anymore if a big studio that is roughly the modern equivalent of a late-90s Ion Storm made Deus Ex now it would be made completely differently, same with if it was a small indie team trying to tackle it. But ultimately I think the greatest argument that Deus Ex is, was, and always shall be good is the fact that 20 years later the game is still getting new fans. Kino Fabino, the guy who makes all those great new Deus Ex memes, was eight years old when Deus Ex came out and didn't play it until years later. In the decades to come Deus Ex fans may not be as ubiquitous as they are now but people who are seriously passionate about the history and legacy of games will likely continue to discover and appreciate it. https://twitter.com/KinoFabino/status/1275954393184075776
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Jul 3, 2020 04:02
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repiv posted:I got the urge to replay DX1 but I'm having trouble, I installed Kenties launcher, DX10 renderer and Biomod, made sure the DX10 renderer was enabled and FPS limit disabled, and when I play the FPS is locked at 100 with constant juddering. I only used GDMX to install, and it worked great. Maybe uninstall and give that a try?
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Jul 3, 2020 05:20
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Tarezax posted:IIRC you had to have set up a "date" for that lady to be there for you to bang. It's still pretty random but not quite as much of a non sequitor as you remembered. It’s this. You save Vesna from thugs and she offers to reward you, one way of which is sex. You can decline, or take her up on the offer and meet her at the mill with some wine.
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Jul 3, 2020 07:24
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I don't agree with this, but I'm not smart enough to articulate why. The most I can come up with is, "Good Things Are Good", Deus Ex didn't trick people into thinking it was good through low standards. this argument doesn't stand up for any games considered "classic" imo, like Doom or Diablo 2 I think it's right, dx just had a bunch of polsci 101 lectures in the form of conversations. Like its great but often not that good, if that makes sense sebmojo fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 08:02
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I liked the witcher sex cards ok, I just thought of them as geralts memories. Players are going to treat sex as pokemon anyway, w1 was just honest about it. Def better than dragon age blank eyed poser models grappling with each other while your party looked on, or shepard creeping on the aide de camp.
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Jul 3, 2020 08:05
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sebmojo posted:I think it's right, dx just had a bunch of polsci 101 lectures in the form of conversations. Like its great but often not that good, if that makes sense Yeah, Deus Ex definitely is more than the sum of it's parts, and I still love it to bits. The whole thing manages to pull off an impossible feat of tying all those disparate elements together in a way that remains unique. It's still janky and goofy and the dialogue often consists of dumbed-down introductory lectures on political philosophy and much of the game is downright bad at times. As sebmojo said, it's still great, even if it's often not that good.
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Jul 3, 2020 08:41
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Sleeveless posted:
And that old meme about “Deus Ex: every time you mention it, someone will reinstall it” holds true 20 years later, too. Look at this thread- it’s a decade old, for a game from 20 years ago, and it’s still active. It’s not just active, too- you have stuff like Jojoinit’s gimmick liberty island run finding new ways to play the game! It’s something that a lot of people have played, and will continue to play. I still play the whole thing once a summer and really enjoy it, despite the rough edges. It’s aged really well in the sense that my complaints about it now are the same ones I had when I first played it in middle school.
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Jul 3, 2020 15:18
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sebmojo posted:I liked the witcher sex cards ok, I just thought of them as geralts memories. All of this sounds horrible and I'm happy to have games take place in a fictional universe where nobody has sex While we're at it, all games should take place in a fictional universe where looking at the sun doesn't blind you. That poo poo is annoying in real life and I don't need it to be simulated in games
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Jul 3, 2020 16:49
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feelix posted:While we're at it, all games should take place in a fictional universe where looking at the sun doesn't blind you. That poo poo is annoying in real life and I don't need it to be simulated in games OK, Mr. President
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Jul 3, 2020 18:12
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It's amazing how influential DX is. It's hard to think of any first person game in the past... decade at least, maybe 15 years, that didn't crib from it. Or at least from the general DX/System Shock vibe, they shared a lot of DNA.
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Jul 3, 2020 20:15
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Grand Fromage posted:It's amazing how influential DX is. It's hard to think of any first person game in the past... decade at least, maybe 15 years, that didn't crib from it. Or at least from the general DX/System Shock vibe, they shared a lot of DNA. There’s even non-first person stuff that’s heavily influenced by it. Streets of Rogue is a top-down RPG that’s very open about taking most of its design cues from DX. It’s an excellent game once it clicks, if you’re reading this thread you’d probably enjoy it a lot.
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Jul 3, 2020 22:17
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It's hard to find a game that doesn't have experience points and progression tied to weapons now, DX didn't invent it but it definitely popularized it. Even Doom has equipment and unlocks now.
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Jul 3, 2020 22:29
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I've yet to see an ARPG with guns tackle aiming the way Deus Ex did and I wish it would make a comeback.
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Jul 3, 2020 23:26
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MeatwadIsGod posted:I've yet to see an ARPG with guns tackle aiming the way Deus Ex did and I wish it would make a comeback.
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Jul 4, 2020 00:06
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I still remember my jaw dropping on my first play through when I killed agent Navarre on the plane. First she killed Lebedev so I reloaded the game and tried to stop her and she promptly killed me. I assumed the game was meant to continue with Navarre killing Lebedev as part of the plot. So for shits and giggles I reloaded again and left a couple of LAMs in the aircraft corridor. Goddamn it was good.
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Jul 4, 2020 09:31
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I can't remember how I figured that out, whether my friend who was playing it at the same time had given me advice or not, but I'm sure she still ended up dead on my first run through which absolutely planted the seed for how I would go on to interact with videogames for the rest of my life. I would like to say I'd gone non-lethal up until that point but I think what actually happened was the guilt upon finding out the NSF were the good guys imprinted upon me such that to this day non-lethal is my standard choice in any immersive sim, with exceptions for obviously evil factions that need to die, such as the entire Prague constabulary in MD. Such a formative game for 11 year old me. The friend I sat next to in Maths was always going on about this interesting sounding PC game and I would tell him about Perfect Dark, until eventually my interest was piqued and I asked my mum to drive me into town so I could buy this game 'Deus Ex' which on first asking she thought was called 'Day of Sex' but luckily we'd been learning Latin at school so I was able to tell her what it meant.
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Jul 4, 2020 10:19
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I've posted before about how Deus Ex is a game where I try to stay non-lethal, and then there's suddenly this point where I'm gunning down MJ12 troops in the street. That's the moment. At every point before Navarra-Lebedev the level design very much lets you play entirely non-lethal and get away with it because enemies are unaware of you until you show yourself. That's the moment where the game goes 'Nope, you have to kill or you have to let someone die. No more easy choices'. And then the tone of the game takes a distinct change from that moment on. It's brilliant writing.
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Jul 4, 2020 11:32
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I think Agent Walter or Gunther standing in a spot as well and being unable to kill them after talking to them and them starting a fight. I remember reloading my save, pulling out my rocket launcher and pointing at them afar and that was the end of that problem. Pretty sure it was Walter.
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Jul 4, 2020 12:56
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