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H110Hawk posted:Ebay shows sold listings of $10/breaker. Offer it to your coworker or let the electrician haul it away. That doesn't seem worth the hassle to me. Yeah I've got: 1x 100a 6x 30a 2x 20a 6x 15a (two of these are 2 pole) Going by sold listings that's maybe $200 before shipping and fees. It's really right on the cusp of whether it's worth the bullshit for me. Edit: yeah gently caress it I don't want to have to ship out a dozen little packages
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Jun 29, 2020 18:52
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How important is it to stuff the wires for a ceiling fan back into the junction box? The way they make these remote control units it's like solving a loving rubik's cube trying to get the wires shoved up in the junction box and then slide the remote control unit into place, since the remote control unit effectively seals off the opening to the junction box. I feel like I'm going to damage a wire trying to jam it in there. This youtube video I found the guy doesn't bother trying to shove the wires back into the junction box, and just tucks them in under the canopy. That would make it waaaay easier, and almost seems like how the remote was designed to be used. The instructions make a point to tell you to tuck the wires into the junction box though, so I figured it's worth double checking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiIiI4037NE This guide doesn't tuck them in the junction box either: https://ask-the-electrician.com/remote-control-ceiling-fans-4.shtml
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Jun 30, 2020 03:15
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Got an electrical question and figured this might be the best place for it. Last night we had a storm come through and had a lightning strike nearby. After it happened several of my gfci breakers tripped. But now my tv (was on a surge protector), garage door opener, LED light bulbs, and several other things aren't working. I'm assuming they all got fried. They all turn on but the tv doesn't have a picture, the garage door opener is just flashing the light, and a batter charger is just flashing the charging light with nothing on the charger. I'm going to call my insurance company this morning but I'm wondering if there is something I'm missing (tried resetting the breakers in my panel) or just bad luck and a bunch of poo poo is ruined.
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Jun 30, 2020 15:28
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wandler20 posted:I'm going to call my insurance company this morning but I'm wondering if there is something I'm missing (tried resetting the breakers in my panel) or just bad luck and a bunch of poo poo is ruined. Sure sounds like it. I'd be checking major appliances and HVAC units as well to see if they also got zapped. Did you have a whole-house surge protector at the panel? If not, it might be a good idea to get one installed for the future. Also, replace any portable surge protectors (not that they helped), because they're only good for one jolt.
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Jun 30, 2020 15:43
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B-Nasty posted:Sure sounds like it. I'd be checking major appliances and HVAC units as well to see if they also got zapped. I don't have a whole house surge protector, just a bunch scattered throughout the house. Good to know on surge protectors only being good for one jolt, for some reason I wasn't aware of that so that might have been part of the problem. When I get back home I'll check for more issues. I do know the AC was fine because it was working this morning.
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Jun 30, 2020 15:46
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There's also only so much a surge protector can do. A nearby lightning strike is likely to get picked up via induction to some degree (garage door openers and alarm systems in particular are prone to damage). If you have a hardwired alarm system, you're gonna want to make sure every door and window still trips it (just turn on the chime or have someone watch a keypad while you open/close everything monitored by the alarm). Any magnetic contacts may get welded closed by a nearby lightning strike, or hell, just from lack of use if you don't open some windows often. Last time my parents had a nearby strike, I replaced almost 20 contacts (out of ~35) to get the system working properly again. edit: alarm contacts are normally open - if the door/window is closed, then the contact closes. Otherwise someone could just cut the wires to an exposed contact if they wanted to get in without tripping it. So if the contact is closed (completing the circuit), the alarm will think everything is closed. Also, if an alarm is showing a zone as open after a nearby strike despite everything being closed, it's easiest to just disconnect the zone at the panel and ohm it there - that'll tell you if the actual panel got damaged, or if a contact got stuck open (usually it's the panel). randomidiot fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Jun 30, 2020 |
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Jun 30, 2020 17:45
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If you have a voltage tester might also be a good idea to check voltage at your receptacles. Might be an open or partially open neutral somewhere.
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Jun 30, 2020 17:59
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Yooper posted:There are two kinds of electricians, those who save all the scrap from different jobs and sell it and those who give the scraps to another electrician who sells it. Three kinds - also the ones who hang on to that old stuff because we run into every now and then and need that part. (you should see my basement). fletcher posted:How important is it to stuff the wires for a ceiling fan back into the junction box? Very. Things are moving and wobbling with the motor vibrations. You don't need that. fletcher posted:The way they make these remote control units it's like solving a loving rubik's cube trying to get the wires shoved up in the junction box and then slide the remote control unit into place, since the remote control unit effectively seals off the opening to the junction box. I feel like I'm going to damage a wire trying to jam it in there. Yes, they're a pain. It can be done though. Fold and slide and shove and maybe cut a bit shorter. You won't damage the fan wires, they have a lot of play being new so they can be pushed in. Same for your house wires unless they're old and brittle but even then it's probably okay. if its super tough okay, have the ground be covered by the canopy. fletcher posted:
gently caress these guys. Hell, the first guy pinched the remote antennae between the canopy and the ceiling.
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Jun 30, 2020 22:34
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lmao so they literally just tossed my old panel to the curb, I guess hoping someone will pick it up. The electricians are still here and it hasn't really gone well. Also they found knob and tube today, which was a surprise to me.  Edit: phew ok he was confused, no knob and tube just the older wiring in the house was likely run through the original knob and tube holes in the joists Sirotan fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jul 1, 2020 |
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Jul 1, 2020 00:00
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Ferrule posted:Very. Things are moving and wobbling with the motor vibrations. You don't need that. Well poo poo. I tried every which way to get the wires in there and get the receiver into place but it seems like it's impossible 
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Jul 1, 2020 01:04
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fletcher posted:Well poo poo. I tried every which way to get the wires in there and get the receiver into place but it seems like it's impossible Take a picture. How long are the wires from the fan? Like, did you leave them really long? You can cut them back. They come super long for down rods and poo poo but if you have your height you don't need that extra. Try to stuff the wires coming from your house to reciver up first, then place receiver, then shove receiver to fan wires up the sides. I don't know what kind of bracket you have but there should be a gap. I won't lie, it is very very tight.
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Jul 1, 2020 13:59
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Crew of two finished my panel replacement and 1 new outlet (plus two replacements) at 8pm last night. Minus a lunch break and a 45min stretch in the morning where they just disappeared for a while, they were here for a good 10 hours. One of them complained about how slow their partner was constantly, and also made more than one comment about how they were slightly worried the inspector would ding them on installing the panel 1" under minimum distance away from my laundry sink. They also told me they don't normally pull a permit until after the work is completed. After all of that, I wasn't really very happy. Then they left and I had a look at the aftermath:        Just a huge mess. That's not even all of it. It took me over an hour to clean. Some dust and debris I can understand, but they just threw an empty can of PB blaster, old screws, zip ties, electrical tape, and wire nuts into the yard and left it there, not to mention the satellite dish. I found a cigarette butt on my driveway. Mounds of dirt in my entry way, staples just everywhere including my sink, they had to dismantle a return air duct to run new wire and in doing so removed an eye hook that was holding up a shop light, they just left the shop light hanging there. You can't see it but directly below that there's a pile of wood shavings that someone made an attempt to move into one spot, but then didn't actually clean them up. Old grounding clamps on the water line were removed and just thrown on the ground. Most of my house is still a construction area, but in my one finished room where they did work, nothing was done to protect the floors or anything else- I'm the one that put a box down. Apparently they don't carry around a shop vac so no attempt was make to sweep up. Just really sloppy and lazy. I've had a bunch of trades in since I bought this place doing major work- foundation repair, perimeter drain and sump pump install, sewer stack and whole house water line replacement, major tree removal and trimming- and all of them took care to return my place to how they found it, within reason obviously. I sent the owner an email with all these photos included, didn't demand anything, just saying how disappointed I was. Wonder if I'll hear back or if they're going to just send me the bill. Sirotan fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Jul 1, 2020 |
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Jul 1, 2020 14:08
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Yeah, that's unacceptable. Hopefully the owner makes it up to you. I don't expect perfection, but come the hell on; leaving empty cans and debris everywhere isn't tradespeople-like at all.
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Jul 1, 2020 14:22
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sharkytm posted:Yeah, that's unacceptable. Hopefully the owner makes it up to you. I don't expect perfection, but come the hell on; leaving empty cans and debris everywhere isn't tradespeople-like at all. lmao I just got the response from the owner: quote:Per our covid plan we are not allowed to sweep or vacuum or take anything from the home. It is posted on the website as required. I do expect them to pick up anything of any size and dispose of it at your home. I do not expect them to do anything with the satellite dish they took down for you, however leaving the screws in the grass would be an issue. welp
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Jul 1, 2020 14:31
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The most important tool I carry on my truck is not my Kleins, not my Wiggy, not my bender. Its my broom. That owner is a dick and I'm sorry you had to deal with all that mess and absolute sloppy workmanship.
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Jul 1, 2020 14:53
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So this is I guess babbys first bad contractor experience. With all the little comments they made about being worried it won't pass inspection, I kind of don't want to pay them until it does pass inspection. They haven't even sent me a bill yet, should I expect them to get pissed off if I say I'm not going to pay until it does pass? Or should I offer 50% now and then the rest when it passes?
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Jul 1, 2020 15:02
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That's complete bullshit, and no you shouldn't pay until after it passes. Depending on how your AHJ feels they might also hit you or the contractors with a fine for unpermitted work if the contractors didn't pull a permit in advance, generally the only case where that's actually allowed is for emergency repairs that can't wait for the permitting process.
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Jul 1, 2020 15:06
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corgski posted:That's complete bullshit, and no you shouldn't pay until after it passes. Depending on how your AHJ feels they might also hit you or the contractors with a fine for unpermitted work if the contractors didn't pull a permit in advance, generally the only case where that's actually allowed is for emergency repairs that can't wait for the permitting process. Yeah I am super pissed about that part, another quote I got wrote up the permit as optional which was the main reason I did not go with them, I wanted this all to be done the right way.
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Jul 1, 2020 15:09
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That one box that looks like they punched the hole in the wall for it really pisses me off. How loving hard is it to cut sheetrock? Especially when it's your "trade".
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Jul 1, 2020 15:43
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I think the new outlet is in the blue room (due to the drywall dust on the floor). I'm guessing the ragged hole was an existing outlet that was already there, and they didn't put new the outlet cover on it because it wouldn't cover up the entire hole and they didn't have an over-sized cover on hand. Not vacuuming or sweeping up because you are worried that drywall dust and copper wire bits might be covered in Corona is beyond ridiculous. If removing construction debris poses an unacceptable risk, how the hell did they generate the debris safely in the first place?
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Jul 1, 2020 16:11
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Workmanship and cleanliness aside (and it sounds like both were below acceptable standard), I don’t think it’s all that uncommon to not pull the permit until after the job has been started. Waiting until the job is complete is a different story but it probably still happens all the time. That being said did you have a contract of any kind or just a verbal agreement? If you have a contract, payment terms and scope of work would have been set forth such as 50% / 50% after final. I drat sure wouldn’t pay the total bill until a passed final inspection. What little bit of residential work I used to do, I always hated cleaning up after myself so usually when the work was done I would offer $50-100 off the total if the customer was willing to do all cleanup. What these guys did sounds ridiculous though.
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Jul 1, 2020 16:45
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Pretty much all discussion was done over texts and some phone calls prior to the work being done. I realize now I probably hosed up in that regard, but costs are laid out pretty clear in texts and permits were discussed. I did not explicitly ask whether they had filed the permit nor did I check online before they arrived, I did not think I'd need to. It was pretty fast and loose but I had long phone conversations with the owner of the place (the one who I got that curt response from) and everything seemed on the up and up. She was a recommendation from another contractor who I've worked with twice now and who I thought were really great, they spoke highly of her. No payment terms were specified. I haven't received the bill yet either. At the very least I have learned a lot about how to NOT deal with a contractor in the future. And Nevets you are right, in the blue room that is a brand new outlet, in the other room there was a one gang outlet there originally. The plasterboard/drywall/whatever it even is there was kind of hosed up before he started work, so I can almost forgive him. However I still feel like more care could have been taken to not rip a huge hole in the wall. I will probably have to replace a huge section of drywall now to fix that in a way that won't look like poo poo. Also in the blue room I noticed he blew out one corner of the hole which is partially covered by the plate. I will probably have to go back and patch that too. :/
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Jul 1, 2020 16:52
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Keep track of the time & any materials you use when cleaning up and fixing their mistakes so you can reference it when explaining to the contractor that you will not be paying 100% of the bill.
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Jul 1, 2020 16:58
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For what it's worth, fixing those drywall fuckups won't be a huge thing, so I wouldn't worry too much about what you'll need to do there. Yes, I'm assuming you'll get to be on the hook for that in the end, which sucks, but still. I guess what I'm saying is, don't worry about it too much, it's not a disaster. At some point, you'll need to weigh your own sanity against the stress of endlessly fighting a lame contractor. See if you can get them to do anything about it, but only to a point.
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Jul 1, 2020 17:01
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Bad Munki posted:For what it's worth, fixing those drywall fuckups won't be a huge thing, so I wouldn't worry too much about what you'll need to do there. Yes, I'm assuming you'll get to be on the hook for that in the end, which sucks, but still. I guess what I'm saying is, don't worry about it too much, it's not a disaster. At some point, you'll need to weigh your own sanity against the stress of endlessly fighting a lame contractor. See if you can get them to do anything about it, but only to a point. Yeah I am not going to ask them to fix these issues, I can do it myself. At this point I just want them to get the permit and schedule the inspection, so that I can pay the bill and be done with them. I don't expect some kind of credit for having to clean up after them nor did I ask for one. If they give me one, then great, but from the tone of the email I received back from them, it isn't likely.
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Jul 1, 2020 17:22
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Good deal. Not getting hung up on intractable issues is a skill in itself, and yeah, the tone of that response email made it pretty clear how they felt about it all. You should be able to fix both those outlets with patches not all that big. Like this one: It's an old work box anyhow, so it's just clamping onto the drywall. Yoink the box out, cut the hole like 2-3" taller above and below, patch the extended parts with a stick backing and a small rectangle of drywall, slap a little joint compound on, and you're golden. Maybe you know all that, if so, godspeed. I just mention it because you suggested having to replace "large amounts of drywall" and it'd be a shame if you cut out big panels or anything when you didn't have to. Which, hell, you can do that too if you want, it looks like there's a not-so-great seam running off to the right from that outlet, so maybe you want to go further, I dunno. Go hog wild or go hog domesticated. 
Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Jul 1, 2020 |
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Jul 1, 2020 17:29
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Bad Munki posted:Maybe you know all that, if so, godspeed. I just mention it because you suggested having to replace "large amounts of drywall" and it'd be a shame if you cut out big panels or anything when you didn't have to. Which, hell, you can do that too if you want, it looks like there's a not-so-great seam running off to the right from that outlet, so maybe you want to go further, I dunno. Go hog wild or go hog domesticated. Yeah unfortunately the drywall here is not in great shape, that crack you see runs about a foot and then makes a 90 degree turn down the rest of the wall. When you push on it, it moves. I am not sure a patch will have anything to support it there, so I may need to cut out a larger piece and replace a section between the studs. Either way I will be doing this myself because I know I will do a good and careful job and if I screw up I can redo it to my satisfaction. Thanks thread for all the replies, I was feeling pretty down about this, especially after getting the reply from the owner today. Just having a bunch of strangers in my house for a whole day during a pandemic was stressful enough. But it's nice to be told I am not being unreasonable in complaining a bit since my natural tendency would be not to rock the boat. 
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Jul 1, 2020 17:47
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Sirotan posted:So this is I guess babbys first bad contractor experience. With all the little comments they made about being worried it won't pass inspection, I kind of don't want to pay them until it does pass inspection. They haven't even sent me a bill yet, should I expect them to get pissed off if I say I'm not going to pay until it does pass? Or should I offer 50% now and then the rest when it passes? To be clear: Do not pay them anything until you see a permit, doesn't need to be inspected yet. From there if your contract only specifies one payment amount then the work isn't done and that payment isn't due until the final inspection happens. If there is a punch list it wouldn't be crazy to ask for 50% but I wouldn't pay them any amount that gets close to them breaking even and into profit+overhead. If they fail inspection and refuse to fix it start looking into how to take their bond or that process. Thank them for their work but insist on dust and debris clean up into your dumpster. You can be polite but firm.
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Jul 1, 2020 18:50
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ncumbered_by_idgits posted:Workmanship and cleanliness aside (and it sounds like both were below acceptable standard), I don’t think it’s all that uncommon to not pull the permit until after the job has been started. Waiting until the job is complete is a different story but it probably still happens all the time. Perhaps not for smaller stuff but a panel replacement isn't something I've ever seen happen without permits lined up before people start working. And where I am the unpermitted work penalty if you pull a permit late is $550 or 0.2% of the total value of the job, whichever is greater, so that's not insignificant. I can't imagine other places would be that lax on it either, otherwise people would just not file for permits unless they got caught. corgski fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jul 1, 2020 |
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Jul 1, 2020 20:50
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Ya kinda got screwed but everyone here is giving you good advice to move with this and things to think about down the road. I pull a permit start of every job and that cost is line-itemed into the quote. If was doing that work for you, that blue-room outlet for instance, I also carry some spackle/putty/plaster whatever on my truck for just that. I don't have your wall paint color on hand but you prob do in the basement for a touch up once it dries. And I would tell you so. Its garbage work all around and guys like that make guys like me and others in this thread look bad.
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Jul 1, 2020 23:16
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I have a question: Went on a service call today. Homeowner had an outdoor GFI that wouldn't reset. Plugged into was a transformer for low-voltage landscape lights. He says the system is about 5 years old. I re-spliced the lighting connections as well since some were loose, used water-proof nuts and rubber tape and electric tape. There was power to the GFI, but it would not reset. I replaced it with a new GFI and new in-use cover (gasket was crappy on the old one). Plugged the trans in, everything cool. I started hanging a new outdoor light for them on their porch. About 45 minutes-an hour later POP! And a puff of smoke from the GFI. I unplugged the trans, reset the breaker, GFI is working. SO, is it the transformer? Do those go bad in five years? Is it the timer part plugged into (I'm attaching pictures) or something. He has, I believe, 6 tree/up lights and 3 sidewalk lights. the whole thing  side panel/timer  timer removed  up light 
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Jul 2, 2020 17:11
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Yes they can die, shouldn't in just 5 years but that's right around when cheap electronics start to die.I would eliminate the timer to start, it's likely not "wet" rated but it's inside the box. It looks like you can feed that thing off any old extension cord, try that off a different branch circuit and meter the outputs below. You can test the timer itself with a lamp and GFCI. Kind nuts the GFCI let out smoke though. Is there a access hatch for the DC rectifier you can pop to look for magic smoke escape?
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Jul 2, 2020 18:06
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An application for a permit showed up on my property's building department details today. 
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Jul 2, 2020 21:26
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H110Hawk posted:Yes they can die, shouldn't in just 5 years but that's right around when cheap electronics start to die.I would eliminate the timer to start, it's likely not "wet" rated but it's inside the box. It looks like you can feed that thing off any old extension cord, try that off a different branch circuit and meter the outputs below. You can test the timer itself with a lamp and GFCI. Kind nuts the GFCI let out smoke though. Is there a access hatch for the DC rectifier you can pop to look for magic smoke escape? The GFI is like 2" up and 5" to the left of that first picture. Sorry it wasn't included. Smoke: maybe it was dust? I don't know. But yes. Weird. Didn't appear to come from transformer at all. It was just a puff. DC rectifer: Maybe? not sure. would need to go back. Timer: yeah, it looks like one you'd put in your house when you go on vacation to keep the Wet Bandits away. Should he get a transformer with a timer built in? I could go and plug the lights directly into the transformer and see if it happens again. The guy is a landscape artichtect or something so his company (although not him) deal in landscape lighting so he can get the unit at cost or whatever.
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Jul 2, 2020 23:18
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Ferrule posted:The GFI is like 2" up and 5" to the left of that first picture. Sorry it wasn't included. I would have him grab a replacement at wholesale so you can test with it, I assume he can return it. Maybe grab a spare light and whatever wire they used as well. Some lovely DC recitifers can fail in really gnarly ways, but most of the time their capacitors fail. Simi Valley is super hot in the summer as I'm sure you know, I would expect a certain amount of wear and tear on it just from living in a metal box in 100F+ heat for 2 months a year, just like start/run caps on AC units. UL sticker makes me hope that it's designed well enough not to fail in a more dangerous way. I guess you would need to work backwards, no dead short / leaking to ground (as in, the literal dirt) / damaged landscape wires? (Ohm it? Not sure.) Good output on the DC side at voltages listed? Can you run some kind of power tool off that outlet without blowing the GFCI? Take the cover off and verify no magic smoke is missing on the boards. Verify AC input power is clean, probably need to pull the GFCI now and verify there's no scorching on it. Verify that timer isn't toast. Curious if there are any opinions on this: H110Hawk posted:Looking to declutter the MIL's kitchen countertop and I basically need either 3 outlets or 2+USB-C to power her google wifi puck (5V/3A, USB-C) + charge iDevices. Previously I've never trusted whatever garbage was out there as an integrated in-wall device, as they were either so poorly made they didn't "handshake" to the higher charging rates on common devices (samsung, apple) thus leaving them to charge at basically 500ma, or they were from ShadyImporterInc and lacked a UL stamp, or the UL listing was definitely fake. I like Leviton as a brand, even if they did discontinue their best product ever - VertiGO ladder rack patch panels. 
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Jul 3, 2020 19:55
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Sirotan posted:Crew of two finished my panel replacement and 1 new outlet (plus two replacements) at 8pm last night. Aside from their sloppy rear end work, and everything else mentioned, if this is how they left what you CAN see, I'd be really concerned about what you can't see. The panel could be a horror show, and I'd check to make sure they didn't backstab those outlets.
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Jul 3, 2020 21:42
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Ferrule posted:The GFI is like 2" up and 5" to the left of that first picture. Sorry it wasn't included. Almost all transformers, even pricey ones from your nightscapings and the like have that plug system so they can sell different timer and now smart/Bluetooth options and only have to swap a module Also makes it easy to swap it since it's likely the first thing to go.
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Jul 4, 2020 01:38
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opengl128 posted:Aside from their sloppy rear end work, and everything else mentioned, if this is how they left what you CAN see, I'd be really concerned about what you can't see. The panel could be a horror show, and I'd check to make sure they didn't backstab those outlets. Creeping on this thread lately, and reading some catchup, why are backstabs bad? Even the modern Lutron outlets and switches have them. I backstabbed a bunch I did at my place recently (stripped wires to appropriate length and all), should I go back and switch to bending the wire in a “U” and screwing them down?
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Jul 4, 2020 02:18
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movax posted:Creeping on this thread lately, and reading some catchup, why are backstabs bad? Even the modern Lutron outlets and switches have them. I backstabbed a bunch I did at my place recently (stripped wires to appropriate length and all), should I go back and switch to bending the wire in a “U” and screwing them down? So there are two different kinds. The kind we're talking about being hazardous are spring clips where you jam a wire in there and it catches. Great.....that works for now. But it's such a small contact point that it ends up dirty/corroded/overloaded for the size of the cable that problems start. Those problems manifest as heat. Which means movement. Now your spring clip is moving. All the time. Springs degrade not because they are in compression but because they move. It's a cycle count thing. So now you have a weaker clamp. So the connection is worse. It cycles more frequently and more physically. Until it arcs. Now you have some serious heat and that's how the fires start. The other kind of back stab looking thing is just a hole in the back of the outlet or switch that is not a spring slip at all, but a clamp you tighten down with a screwdriver so make a positive connection. Those seem to be fine.
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Jul 4, 2020 02:40
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movax posted:Creeping on this thread lately, and reading some catchup, why are backstabs bad? Even the modern Lutron outlets and switches have them. I backstabbed a bunch I did at my place recently (stripped wires to appropriate length and all), should I go back and switch to bending the wire in a “U” and screwing them down? Re:the spring clips: Also, we see a lot of #12 wires jammed into backstabs, which are for #14 wires only. Not as big of a problem as what Motronic laid out, but it also contributes to connection failure. There's a low enough fail rate that it's allowed per NEC , but it's not something most professionals would do. I've serviced enough problems caused by failed backstabs that I'd never use them (fwiw I also pigtail all of my multi-cable outlet installs instead of using the receptacle as a junction, which is overkill per the NEC). Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 04:55
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