|
Phigs posted:What makes the gunplay in Tarkov so good? single headshot kills (with good ammo), predictable-ish recoil, and not knowing whether you hit or not in the moment (ie, no hitmarkers) not only do you have to know how to aim, but have the experience to recognize whether you're hitting or missing in the moment, and know what that would entail in many situations. i love switching between tarkov and modernwarfare, both games have totally different gameplay but amazing gunplay in two completely different types of game
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2020 08:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 00:52 |
|
|
Playing Tarkov for almost 5 years now has made me way better at other FPS games. That's my post, thanks for reading.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2020 14:33
|
|
|
Oysters Autobio posted:Yeah because there are absolutely no options between Chad tank and pistol running. Seriously? You kind of missed the point, that there are many options on how to play the game. If you decide for yourself that the fringes are not in "the spirit of the game" and limit yourself bully for you. When Nikita keeps making changes that restricts what's allowed in the game that window of things gets smaller and smaller, for me and every other player. They are certainly allowed to make those changes, it's their game, but I'm allowed to not like it and let them know about it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2020 15:42
|
|
|
I don't really mind them limiting the money and gear that people can bring in, but this last wipe they just straight up nerfed the spawn rate of both scavs and items so it just sucked a lot of fun out of the game. I want to play looty-shooty mans not walking simulator deluxe. They also didn't really rebalance the spawn locations of poo poo, and it's still the same old rushes to get the same poo poo in the same places, just with lower chances and more repetitive gameplay. They could do some really simple/easy poo poo like make loot spawn in progressively on the map instead of at the beginning, or add more weapon degradation to higher tier weapons to make them wear out, or probably any number of things that don't involve removing a ton of stuff from the map.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2020 17:23
|
|
|
Phigs posted:What makes the gunplay in Tarkov so good? I quit back when FPS limited rate of fire and my PC was (and is) behind par, so it always felt a bit off to me and I didn't know why until that info came out, but I'd moved on by the time it became public. Honestly it still feels a bit off to me. The wildly varying sensitivities between different kind of sights on your gun and the automatic recoil compensation are 2 of the things that bother me about the gunplay, but the latter is more of a subjective thing. The things it does get right are great though, like the way the weapons are fully modelled and actually firing bullets out of the gun, it doesn’t feel like you are playing laser tag like a lot of games can. I like the game well enough, but I don’t love it, and I’m not sure I’ll stick with it. I think the gameplay loop of digging through trash and building up your hideout while doing mostly boring quests just isn’t for me. When you have a great raid, there is nothing like this game, but there’s too much tedium. If they ever add an arena mode like they say is planned, I would probably spend more time in that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2020 17:33
|
|
|
There is an arena mode, though? It's called "Factory"
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2020 20:32
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u8hkw2UTy4
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2020 21:38
|
|
|
twig1919 posted:
This would be really cool, like when the second wave of scavs spawn in, theres a fresh bunch of loot that spawns in locations as well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 01:34
|
|
|
TheTofuShop posted:This would be really cool, like when the second wave of scavs spawn in, theres a fresh bunch of loot that spawns in locations as well. Knowing Nikita he would just make all the loot half as valuable to make up for more spawning halfway thru the raid
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 01:46
|
|
|
twig1919 posted:They could do some really simple/easy poo poo like make loot spawn in progressively on the map instead of at the beginning, or add more weapon degradation to higher tier weapons to make them wear out, or probably any number of things that don't involve removing a ton of stuff from the map. Hey hey hey, you just keep those wacky interesting and new ideas to yourself. Nikita has it all under control with his patented Backpack Solution, so you know there's more good stuff coming down the pipe any day now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 04:42
|
|
|
That could be cool, the rare loot spawns would be kind of 'king of the hill' style where people try and hold an area.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 12:21
|
|
|
So are people just being goons or is this game actually any good? Cos it kinda of hard to know from reading this thread. I put hundreds and hundreds of hours into Dayz mod and standalone back in the day but left as all the fun got sucked out by the dumb 'survival' mechanics got more extreme and it became fruit picking simulator. I've watched a few hours of people streaming and atleast it appears to have those qualities I loved, high risk high reward, realistic shooting mechanics etc.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 13:54
|
|
|
Mega Comrade posted:So are people just being goons or is this game actually any good? Cos it kinda of hard to know from reading this thread. It's got exactly the same problem as standalone where they keep adding more extraneous, pointless bullshit to it to make it increasingly tedious to play. Your personal metrics and tolerance for where exactly that becomes untenable are of course gonna vary, there are plenty of people - including goons - who play the game daily without going on month long crying sprees about how poo poo the game is. Realistically, standard edition is a bit under $40 and I'd say the game is worth that well before you even really butt up against the bullshit. Worth a punt.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 13:58
|
|
|
1001 Arabian dicks posted:you have such a poor understanding of the game, nothing you've said implies RMT any way, it can easily be explained by a hacker searching for those items in raid, but doesn't imply RMT whatsoever. BSG capped the number of certain items you can hold in a raid specifically for that reason. Did you not know about that? Yes, there is tons of stuff you can buy and sell on the flea market, but trying to give them away won't work right, the taxes work inversely too so if you try to set the price of something too low then the fees will get jacked up anyway. And my dude, if you legitimately believe that people are somehow hacking but not also using hacks to to get things to RMT with, I don't think there's any amount of logic or reason that will get through to you. Put yourself in the shoes of somebody who wanted to make money off of playing tarkov, why wouldn't you hack? It makes getting everything you want to make money with so much easier and faster, and you don't give a poo poo if you get banned since you can just buy another account anyway with all the money you make from doing it. *Edit* Mega Comrade posted:So are people just being goons or is this game actually any good? Cos it kinda of hard to know from reading this thread. By the game, it's extremely fun and well worth the $40. Ignore whiny goons, the game really is as fun as it looks, despite it's problems. Just be prepared to die and lose your poo poo a lot, because it's going to happen no matter how good you are. Umbreon fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Jul 5, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 14:32
|
|
|
Mega Comrade posted:So are people just being goons or is this game actually any good? Cos it kinda of hard to know from reading this thread. Honestly most people here are just frustrated and being goons because they made it harder to make easy money so they can gear up with the highest end gear possible. The game is still fun, and while the questing is tedious and looting is harder because you have to survive, it's still a fun experience. It's still the best gunplay you'll find, and the survival horror part of it is still amazing. Oysters Autobio fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Jul 5, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 14:32
|
|
|
Also in case you guys missed it, loot spawn chances just got buffed by 30% as of a day ago. I've been having to extract earlier than intended more often simply because I have no room left, it's pretty nice
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 14:39
|
|
|
Mega Comrade posted:So are people just being goons or is this game actually any good? Cos it kinda of hard to know from reading this thread. If you like rogue-likes, STALKER style scavenging and realistic mil-sim kinda shooters then you'll have a blast but then you'll have a bad round and call this game utter bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 14:55
|
|
|
this is a game that may legitimately give you a heart attack. when you get one tapped out of nowhere after spending half an hour crawling in shadows without seeing a single human being you'll piss your pants, when you die 10 feet from an extract you'll probably destroy something in frustration, you will probably never be more excited in your life to actually go home with a bunch of screws, some windex, and a key, and you'll feel like a loving god when you actually kill somebody and take their poo poo
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 15:11
|
|
|
Pornographic Memory posted:this is a game that may legitimately give you a heart attack. Sneaking around in utter silence on a night raid when all of a sudden the quiet is broken by what feels like the defeaning CLICK of an AK fire selecter being switched to full-auto so loudly you'd swear the rifle was placed right next to your ear...
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 15:22
|
|
|
Orv posted:It's got exactly the same problem as standalone where they keep adding more extraneous, pointless bullshit to it to make it increasingly tedious to play. This is pretty much it. Once you're in raid with some buddies and you get into a firefight and you're reloading, throwing nades, packing mags, healing, etc it's a pretty good time. It's the rest of the game around it that sucks the fun out. A big source of that is the developers reaching out to streamers for their opinions on upcoming changes. So imagine the top 10 players in the world deciding what's "good for the game" and it starts to make more sense. Gunplay is still good though. ChesterJT fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Jul 5, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 16:16
|
|
|
ChesterJT posted:This is pretty much it. Note on this though: If this is your favourite playstyle (getting into PVP firefights with buddies) then the game is still good of course, but be aware that the game isn't kind to this playstyle and you may find yourself frustrated like many posters here. At the end of the day, this is not a PVP arena shooter so definitely need to have expectations here. Good or bad, the game is much kinder to sneaky, camping rat-type survival then going out guns-blazing to get sweet kills. The recent changes for FIR gear makes this very apparent since it doesn't end up profitable to go in PVP with great gear because you risk losing it, and the gear you farm from PVP won't be worth all that much. Expect even further changes that make this game more and more difficult as well It's funny that I agree with you that streamers have way too much sway on the devs, but I feel like they influence it too much into your playstyle (sprinting around chad PVP action), so I find it odd you wouldn't like their influence on the dev. I mean look at Pestily being a little bitch about getting one-shot by a Mosin because he loves to sprint around and  boo hoo I had such expensive armor on I don't deserve to die, it's not faaaair so the Devs nerfed the cost of the Mosin because of it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 17:22
|
|
|
It is possible for careless, full charging terminator tank PvP to be bad and for low risk, high reward low interaction ratting to be bad at the same time. Ideally you could engage in a variety of play styles and still make progress, make money and have fun but the devs seem averse to allowing that for a variety of reasons. Further ideally, you would have intersections of player action, rather than group A killing each other off and then the winner being sniped from the shadows every time by group B. Pestily is a whiny baby about dying much of the time but he's not wrong that if the game just becomes entire servers of rats sneaking around each other and pixel hunting and corner camping until the end of each match then Tarkov ain't gonna be a ton of fun. Orv fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Jul 5, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 17:36
|
|
|
Orv posted:It is possible for careless, full charging terminator tank PvP to be bad and for low risk, high reward low interaction ratting to be bad at the same time. Ideally you could engage in a variety of play styles and still make progress, make money and have fun but the devs seem averse to allowing that for a variety of reasons. Further ideally, you would have intersections of player action, rather than group A killing each other off and then the winner being sniped from the shadows every time by group B.  If you allow for every playstyle possible you just end up watering down the game to be the same as any other arena FPS shooter. The game is unique and the devs are trying to implement their game to be different, which will inevitably influence certain playstyles to not be optimal. It's not possible to allow for every playstyle and have a balanced game that achieves the environment and gameplay they want.To me this argument just sounds like some weird video game free market libertarianism, just like "don't regulate anything, let the mArKeT DeCiDe". Nah gently caress that, this just ends up with dudes doing dumb meta gameplay which ruins the game for others who aren't playing just to rack up sweet MLG 420 no scopes. You can call this camping pixel hunting if you want, but to me it's just playing realistically slow, methodical and picking your battles to survive. I find those tense moments of sneaking and maneuvering way more entertaining and so do many people, but it gets ruined by allowing for every playstyle possible. The FIR changes have easily been some of the best I've seen, it's nearly annihilated the dumbest gameplay possible (hatchlings), it's slowed down PVP streamer bros so servers aren't lopsided with tank chads wiping the map and it's improved the experience because you actually end up using the gear you got off PVP kills instead of just selling it and using it to fund whatever meta min-max loadout available. At the end of the day you can't have a balanced game that does it all, so the devs are balancing it towards what makes the game unique. Oysters Autobio fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Jul 5, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 17:50
|
|
|
I mean, no? You can have the cool high risk loot gameplay and have a good, balanced shooter on top of it. Armor, bullets and all that stuff can get actually tweaked along with things like FIR to supply both.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 17:56
|
|
|
Orv posted:I mean, no? You can have the cool high risk loot gameplay and have a good, balanced shooter on top of it. Armor, bullets and all that stuff can get actually tweaked along with things like FIR to supply both. I don't think its possible because one playstyle inevitably ruins it for the other playstyle. If the game is super chad tank armor soaks up every bullet, then everyone will just play the chad playstyle and make it impossible to ambush or play tactically. If the game is super deadly and you can die easily from many rounds and from rats camping in the shadows, then it makes it impossible to gear up and go sprint down and hardcore PVP. One will inevitably have to be the more dominant playstyle, I don't think you can have both. Nor do I think the devs have to cater to every playstyle to appease those players.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 18:07
|
|
|
Nah.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 18:22
|
|
|
Orv posted:Nah. uhh, yeah?
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 18:23
|
|
|
Oysters Autobio posted:it's slowed down PVP streamer bros so servers aren't lopsided with tank chads wiping the map and it's improved the experience because you actually end up using the gear you got off PVP kills instead of just selling it and using it to fund whatever meta min-max loadout available. lol do you also not play Tarkov I am bad at the game and die a bunch and I just sell off loot from pvp kills and mostly use whatever loadout I want because it's very easy to get money and access to good items none of these changes will affect "end game" meta hth
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 20:03
|
|
|
The armor system suffers too much from being overly realistic, in that ~2/3 of round types won't even come close to going through Class III/Class IV armor. Players are still pretty vulnerable though, even with full armor coverage your arms and legs are still a huge exposed area. IMO Nikita should make hard armor somewhat more fragile, or difficult to aquire. Also, I think improvised grenades and explosives would also level the playing field between the rat in a scav vest and UltraGigaChad in head to toe Level 6. Also give everyone free moosin every day, it's Russia you probably trip on one walking out of the bunker on the way to Prapor's anyways
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 20:13
|
|
|
They should experiment with the game weapon supply. Giving out free weekly guns of a different type would sure as hell spice the game up.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 21:49
|
|
|
Cage Kicker posted:Players are still pretty vulnerable though, even with full armor coverage your arms and legs are still a huge exposed area. The problem isn't the body armor itself. The problem is that the damage system has serious flaws. It takes literally 10-15 rifle rounds to kill someone with arm shots and 7-10 for leg shots. Even having stomach armor is a straight up negative because taking 5 bullets to the stomach is inconsequential while 2 bullets to the chest is instant death, so wasting armor durability on protecting the stomach is pointless. Additionally, there is no real penalty for blacked arms/legs. There pretends to be a penalty but 1) it can be undone with a common and cheap item (painkillers) and 2) its so minor to not matter. You can still aim with a blacked arm and running on blacked legs does like 5 damage every few seconds out of 435 max hp. There are also issues with no body part penetration on limb shots so a bullet hitting someone in the arm from the side doesn't pass through it and perforate their unprotected lungs like it should. What all of this means is that wearing top teir has 0 counter play other than having top teir ammo. If they fixed their damage model to work in a halfway realistic manner then it would solve a lot of issues. 1) top teir poo poo would still be good, but it wouldn't be a 95% win button. 2) running and gunning will be nerfed because arm/leg shots would mean more (right now run and gun is the objectively best way to win a firefight because moving heads are harder to click). 3) it would make it possible to nerf high teir ammo availability without loving over non-poopsockers. There are also a lot of issues with top teir guns being low ttk laser beams with literally 0 recoil. Mosin 1 shot kills are bullshit for the same reason that meta 4 sprays at 150M are, they provide no interesting engagements or counterplay. A meta m4/ak will win every fight every time over any other weapon unless the person using it can't even aim within the general direction of their opponent. Instead of evaluating these core mechanical issues and rebalancing mechanics/items the dev team is just loving around with restricting access to these bullshit win buttons in tedious and annoying ways at the expense of anyone who isn't a professional poopsocker playing 9 hours a day. This is also why the skill system with game breaking elite abilities is complete garbage. It's almost like there is a theme... With this latest wipe I am now firmly in the camp that Nikita is a complete idiot who doesn't understand his game or the mechanics of how it works at all. The fact that the game is universally regarded as best early wipe just farther highlights that the problems are primarily how high teir items interact with the core mechanics. The only real solution to the games problems are to fix the core issues instead of loving around with items/loot/values/market. twig1919 fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jul 5, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2020 22:52
|
|
|
Oysters Autobio posted:I don't think its possible because one playstyle inevitably ruins it for the other playstyle. I think everyone being able to have their own play style is what keeps the game interesting. The devs don't have to cater to every play style but they also shouldn't punish one play style either. You made a comment earlier about my play style but I never said what that was, you just assumed it was heavy chads running around in a group. The thing is I don't have a play style. I enjoy hatchling runs, either naked or a pistol. I enjoy solo runs, either geared or basic, for loot or quests, or whatever. And I also enjoy going in with a 5 man wrecking everything we see. I enjoy those 5-mans in a big open map like woods and shoreline, and I enjoy it in factory. If I played the same way every time I'd be incredibly bored. And if I faced the exact same type of play style in my enemies I'd be incredibly bored too. twig1919 posted:With this latest wipe I am now firmly in the camp that Nikita is a complete idiot who doesn't understand his game or the mechanics of how it works at all. And also this. If he doesn't want hatchlings to be a thing, then require a player having a main weapon and armor before being able to enter a raid. What do we get instead? Crazy poo poo like cursed mode that happens randomly and FiR status that has a list of conditions that aren't consistent to it. He can't commit to anything so he half-asses everything. ChesterJT fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jul 6, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2020 01:02
|
|
|
twig1919 posted:The fact that the game is universally regarded as best early wipe just farther highlights that the problems are primarily how high teir items interact with the core mechanics. The only real solution to the games problems are to fix the core issues instead of loving around with items/loot/values/market. Agree with all of this, I think it explains all the things i dislike about the current meta really well (other than the grenade-a-thon part)
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2020 01:15
|
|
|
What would fix the game? Decreasing the availability of top tier guns and ammo along with some kind of "blacked" arm or leg penalty that is completed negated by painkillers? I don't understand how we'd making body armor more realistic would change things for the better. That'd probably just make it stronger.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2020 02:44
|
|
|
Gabriel S. posted:What would fix the game? Decreasing the availability of top tier guns and ammo along with some kind of "blacked" arm or leg penalty that is completed negated by painkillers? Because right now the protective level of an armor is applied to the full hitbox instead of just where the plate would realistically be. If they had realistic hitboxes for the armor, spraying down a slick-plate carrier boy with 5.45 PS would actually be of concern for him because some bullets would hit outside of the protection zone, even on the thorax. There would also be the aforementioned buff to side shots which would not need to defeat the main plate, just soft body armor protection. My personal read is that they have half-implemented systems all clashing with each-other, creating issues that shouldn't exist and distract from their main development focus.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2020 04:54
|
|
|
I'd be fine experimenting with that method but I also think that it's far too easy to be laser accurate. Weapons should have some kind of deviation, spray recoil and damage/pentation reduced at range. There should be more than just ammunition caliber than goes into consideration.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2020 04:58
|
|
|
Gabriel S. posted:I'd be fine experimenting with that method but I also think that it's far too easy to be laser accurate. Weapons should have some kind of deviation, spray recoil and damage/pentation reduced at range. There should be more than just ammunition caliber than goes into consideration. But they do? Damage/pentation are reduced at range but most fighting in this game occurs at sub 50m range which means it hardly ever has an effect. There is weapon deviation even, which is most noticeable when you are using iron-sights and don't use the alt-press to get exact alignment. To be honest if they wanted to improve the gunplay they should make it so that all these crazy aftermarket options have much less effect on recoil stats and mostly be about ergonomics and utility like having magnification, laser, etc. Because when all of the guns are Ergo >60, Recoil <60 there is basically no difference between an AKM/AK-74/M4/M416 aside from which ammo type you're using.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2020 05:05
|
|
|
Nikita seems to want it complete realistic and, realistically, you can hit a target at the normal short tarkov ranges every time. I'd be pretty annoyed if I lined up a headshot and my rifle randomly decided not to hit there based on rng
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2020 05:08
|
|
|
Gabriel S. posted:I'd be fine experimenting with that method but I also think that it's far too easy to be laser accurate. Weapons should have some kind of deviation, spray recoil and damage/pentation reduced at range. There should be more than just ammunition caliber than goes into consideration. Gotta hard disagree with this, the consistency of hard sight and point shooting is part of why Tarkov is such a great shooter. I don't disagree with a lot of people's other points though. Armor was supposed to eventually be a customization plate system, not just rigs/vests with set HP. There was supposed to be leg armor. There were supposed to be a lot of things that were different or more expanded upon than there are now and the result is a bunch of stop-gap or half done systems that end up creating the terminator versus vorpal bullet problem.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2020 08:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 00:52 |
|
|
Oysters Autobio posted:Good or bad, the game is much kinder to sneaky, camping rat-type survival then going out guns-blazing to get sweet kills. The recent changes for FIR gear makes this very apparent since it doesn't end up profitable to go in PVP with great gear because you risk losing it, and the gear you farm from PVP won't be worth all that much. Expect even further changes that make this game more and more difficult as well Something isn't "difficult" because it eats a lot of time. It's not difficult to come up with 1800 baby names starting with J, but it sure as hell takes time. The problem with passive playstyles in the current Tarkov is it's effectively an arena with some demo-economy features tacked on. People spawn in, maps are static and the only real goal is to hog some loot and get it to the exit. That is it - the tension that people find in it is largely the power of their imagination, because going broke doesn't have real penalties, nor does finding good stuff have some greater, game-changing impact. You can't really use it to cooperate with each other, change the map, change the game or what not. You can't even take anything from anyone that they don't basically consent to you taking. So when that trends towards camping, you get a very silly experience, where the only limit is people's willingness to poopsock. Memorize spawns, flow and know your run times - reach a spot, hold out, sound whore and pop anybody silly enough to not have memorized enough. Lay low again, and head towards the exit. Ironically this was also a fairly large problem with more aggro playstyles that used parts of this approach to mitigate risk. Calling this kind of thing 'asymmetrical information' is very kind when that information is only gained in an out-of-game, meta way (namely by playing over and over and having a second screen up) - it's not that you gained information and took risks that led to your future advantage. You simply repeated a task until you were guaranteed to have an advantage. The key problem with Tarkov is that it was made sort of under the influence of early 2k-MMOs, and the idea of building an 'immersive simulator' - it brings all the worst dregs of that era with it: Heavy instancing, item spawning, loot tables, doing runs and endless grinding and loot inflation. Even the dread skill system would feel at home in one of those games (repeat action to gain skill at action? Huh, sounds kinda familiar). And every part of the game that comes from this line of thinking is 100% dysfunctional, a turnoff and useless. The two good things it has going for it are the gunsmith (...until the stat-balancing again is very MMO-ish) and the audio-visuals of gunfights - unaided by huds, in helmets that smear, ringing and smoke and blasts left and right. No markers to aid you, just your memory of where your pals are to know where to run, how to flank and who to shoot. This is great, because it puts a lot of immediate challenge on the player, in ways that are fair, dynamic (they can't be learned by rote) and allow for tons of possible solutions. To fix Tarkov would be quite a task and require tearing large parts of it down. Which is largely why I quit. It was only fun when we were pretending it was some kind of squad shooter and got ourselves in trouble for no good reason. Playing to win at Tarkov seemed like the silliest waste of time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2020 08:17
|
|