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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 04:13
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That Ajey Pandey thread is a pretty good read on the whole.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:00
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Nessus posted:This is distinct from, for instance, Quentin Tarantino's foot thing, because a movie is not interactive; Tarantino put that in his movie but you aren't being called on to roll Move Big Toe (extended action) to continue in the module. I kind of deliberately picked Tarantino because his displays of his foot fetish is so overt that a lot of people are complaining about how distracting it is. Yes, you don't have to roll Move Big Toe to continue in the module, but you definitely have to engage with a ten-minute long closeup of some actress' feet being on your screen and drawn attention to.
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Jul 4, 2020 06:54
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Yeah but even then there's a distance between person and filmmaker such that you can go, "Ah, gently caress off QT" and easily disengage. In an RPG it's more like the artist is there next to you reading you his erotic poetry.
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Jul 4, 2020 09:30
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LatwPIAT posted:I kind of deliberately picked Tarantino because his displays of his foot fetish is so overt that a lot of people are complaining about how distracting it is. Yes, you don't have to roll Move Big Toe to continue in the module, but you definitely have to engage with a ten-minute long closeup of some actress' feet being on your screen and drawn attention to. Nessus fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 11:53
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Is there a sourced list of the things WotC has done? I know some of them in my head but I'd like to have something more solid than "I heard WotC doesn't care about PoC" to provide to people who don't know.
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Jul 4, 2020 13:04
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Is there a sourced list of the things WotC has done? I know some of them in my head but I'd like to have something more solid than "I heard WotC doesn't care about PoC" to provide to people who don't know. Someone's been needing to do a General Purpose Industry Helldump page for a while to keep track of all the poo poo and assholes in this industry.
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Jul 4, 2020 14:06
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TFR has a good racism/authoritarian/etc in the industry thread, and we could probably copy from their example. Learning from TG history, we'd also want to limit the scope to industry personalities and not individual SA posters and mods by making local drama an instant auto probation. Not that SA users are flawless, but once the thread goes down that path it won't recover. Like last time. E: I'm still irritated that we can't maintain a stickied industry shitlist because people can't stop doxxing each other over petty poo poo. moths fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 14:43
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What was published under swords-and-flowers.itch.io? A Twitter tabletop designer I followed retweeted the allegations again them, and they took down their catalogue. I'm OOTL and just want to know which titles in the BLM bundle I should be aware of.
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Jul 4, 2020 14:57
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CitizenKeen posted:What was published under swords-and-flowers.itch.io? A Twitter tabletop designer I followed retweeted the allegations again them, and they took down their catalogue. I'm OOTL and just want to know which titles in the BLM bundle I should be aware of. this is what they offered to the bundle: HEART & LIGHTNING: https://swords-and-flowers.itch.io/heart-and-lightning ATTRACTIVE DETECTIVES: https://swords-and-flowers.itch.io/attractive-detectives SPRING ON ME: https://swords-and-flowers.itch.io/spring-on-me FREELANCERS: https://swords-and-flowers.itch.io/freelancers THEY WON'T GO WHEN I GO: https://swords-and-flowers.itch.io/they-wont-go-when-i-go
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Jul 4, 2020 15:02
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 15:24
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Absurd Alhazred posted:It'd be tricky; didn't or don't a lot of them have SA accounts at some point? Hell  had an account here for about three minutes. But it's incredibly obvious when someone is bringing their personal posting grudges into it. It's easy to differentiate between the industry's Matt McFarlands and a bad poster but it's important to draw a hard line on in-house drama. Unless we want to infinitely cite LotFP's rape spells or the MtG artist's Hitler fan art because that thread can't stay out of the trash.
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Jul 4, 2020 15:47
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Absurd Alhazred posted:It's not just allegations, they fully admitted it (cw descriptions of sexual violence https://twitter.com/BabblegumSam/status/1279120969013985280 He's been RTing callouts against him, which people are (I think rightly) interpreting as him trying to control the narrative and stay in the space.
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Jul 4, 2020 15:47
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I think there's room for a collection thread about this poo poo. The last one got drowned in shitposters and mod drama and I'm sure that won't be a problem this time 
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Jul 4, 2020 16:07
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I don’t know if we currently have a mod for the subforum (Reene’s not been around), it might be worth holding off until we have one.
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Jul 4, 2020 16:09
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moths posted:Learning from TG history, we'd also want to limit the scope to industry personalities and not individual SA posters and mods by making local drama an instant auto probation. Even when the fascism thread wasn't doxxing mods it was getting lost in the weeds arguing with defensive Warhammer fans or getting into military hardware debates. A thread listing out sexual harassers, fascists, and other dickheads would need at least its own idiot king to stop it from dissolving into grognards.txt territory or going completely mad again. moths posted:Hell Technically he had an account for the past three months until I asked if it could be re-banned a few days ago...
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Jul 4, 2020 16:35
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If you're talking about making another grogs.txt to catalog all the missing stairs and so on remember that it also largely bogged down into reposting the boring-rear end greatest hits of whatever that pipe smoking guy was while needlessly picking apart smug comments from six years earlier. I don't think there was a more inside baseball thread here after a while.
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Jul 4, 2020 18:00
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theironjef posted:If you're talking about making another grogs.txt to catalog all the missing stairs and so on remember that it also largely bogged down into reposting the boring-rear end greatest hits of whatever that pipe smoking guy was while needlessly picking apart smug comments from six years earlier. I don't think there was a more inside baseball thread here after a while. Not grogs.txt so much as a repository of which company/person has done what, and whether they've apologized or not, and discussion of ongoing problems. The wrestling subforum currently has one for the massive #SpeakingOut exposure of basically the entire wrestling world as creeps. It does fit this thread but I think the scope is a bit bigger than just here. I say this with full knowledge that I don't have the time or capability to maintain something like that.
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Jul 4, 2020 20:46
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Not sure whether this is the right thread - but there's been some relatively decent news from the other giant in the fantasy tabletop games world - Games Workshop. About a month ago they made a public statement saying "We will never accept any form of prejudice, hatred, or discrimination in our company or in the Warhammer community" and ending up quite literally saying "If you feel the same way wherever and whoever you are we're glad to have you as part of the Warhammer community. And if not you will not be missed." It sounds like empty words even if the obvious targets threw their toys out of the pram. But it looks as if they meant it. About two weeks later the Indomitus box reveal showed one of the Ultramarine sergeants (the troopers all having helmets) to not have white skin. Actual diversity, this time in the default human faction and poster child for Space Marines - right in the new 40k starter. Needless to say people tried scraping the bottom of the barrel to claim it conflicted with the lore because geneseed turns marines into clones of their primarch (something that has never been true). And in the last few days there's been the minor saga about the youtuber formerly known as Arch Warhammer - who may be the worst Warhammer chud on Youtube (as low a bar as that is). It came out yesterday that GW have banned anyone they work with from working with Arch; we found out because World of Warships messed up in their collaboration with GW and made a public apology to both GW and the Warhammer community for it. And I say the youtuber formerly known as Arch Warhammer because GW got annoyed with him to the point of saying "Warhammer is our trademark and calling yourself Arch Warhammer and making Warhammer lore videos you're both running the risk of being seen official, causing confusion, and your content causes harm to our brand. Change your name or we send the lawyers." Chuds claim that this means GW think they own the word "warhammer", completely ducking trademark issues. And the youtuber formerly known as Arch Warhammer is now known as Arch. Looks as if GW is cleaning house.
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Jul 4, 2020 21:15
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Arivia posted:this is what they offered to the bundle: For general clarity, all of these items are still in the bundle, you just can't buy them anymore.
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Jul 4, 2020 21:42
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I think a list of "discussing lovely things companies and individuals have done" would be good but I would think it needs a couple of caveats to avoid derailing. One is that there may need to be an emphasis on a particular kind of lovely action. In this case I would say those actions would be "the company actively publishes harmful things or supports harmful actors." You would want to define "harmful" in some way - the thread on 'fascism in gaming' mostly derailed on "just how bad the Warhammer 40K setting is" which seems like something to avoid. Another is that there may need to be some kind of practical 'statute of limitations,' not to let people off the hook, but because (for instance) extensive discourse about the lovely things White Wolf or TSR or Gary Gygax did are interesting-- but are not actionable, because White Wolf and TSR do not exist in those forms any more, and Gary Gygax is dead. (While the actions of OPP/Paradox, Wizards of the Coast, and :zaks: are very relevant.) This does not mean there should not be discussion about the historical stuff, but "White Wolf published some hilariously racist poo poo in the mid90s!" is different from "WOTC is firing black freelancers this very year!" and the message of one could easily overwrite the latter due to many posts.
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Jul 4, 2020 22:31
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https://twitter.com/ashleynhwarren/status/1279505452561084416
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Jul 4, 2020 22:32
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neonchameleon posted:Chuds claim that this means GW think they own the word "warhammer", completely ducking trademark issues. And the youtuber formerly known as Arch Warhammer is now known as Arch. They claim that it means that GW will now have to go after literally everyone ever who uses the word Warhammer in their channel names for any reason, which seems to my non-lawyer self as a massive misunderstanding of how trademarks actually work. They're also claiming that this makes Arch "Warhammer Jesus" which shows exactly what level of bad faith they're operating under.
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Jul 4, 2020 23:18
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neonchameleon posted:Not sure whether this is the right thread - but there's been some relatively decent news from the other giant in the fantasy tabletop games world - Games Workshop. About a month ago they made a public statement saying "We will never accept any form of prejudice, hatred, or discrimination in our company or in the Warhammer community" and ending up quite literally saying "If you feel the same way wherever and whoever you are we're glad to have you as part of the Warhammer community. And if not you will not be missed." While these things are nice, they still fall very firmly under 'the very least they could be doing.' Oh boy, they released a positive statement and It's nice to see GW glacially changing for the better, but like everyone else glacially changing it doesn't give them moral weight to change well after they should already have.
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Jul 4, 2020 23:21
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gently caress Arch he's trash and I'm glad they're cutting him off. end of post.
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Jul 4, 2020 23:22
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 23:46
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I feel sorry for the people in companies like Games Workshop who are generating institutional change basically by sheer force of will, dragging these companies kicking and screaming against decades of cultural inertia, who then read threads like this and find that their efforts are considered all but worthless because it's not fast enough, or not happening in someone's specific area of concern. It must be exhausting to try to do good, and have negative feedback heaped on you by your allies. In conclusion, gently caress Arch, good job Games Workshop, keep it up, do as much as you can as fast as you can.
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Jul 5, 2020 00:26
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 5, 2020 00:31
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People are skeptical because it's not about "fighting cultural inertia" to try to do good, it's about companies crunching the numbers and determining that a few symbolic concessions are better for their bottom line than pretending they did nothing wrong. It's a defensive response to embarrassment and damage to their brand, not a crusade.
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Jul 5, 2020 00:44
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Kestral posted:I feel sorry for the people in companies like Games Workshop who are generating institutional change basically by sheer force of will, dragging these companies kicking and screaming against decades of cultural inertia, who then read threads like this and find that their efforts are considered all but worthless because it's not fast enough, or not happening in someone's specific area of concern. It must be exhausting to try to do good, and have negative feedback heaped on you by your allies.
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Jul 5, 2020 01:28
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I think it should be possible to simultaneously be encouraging and vocally appreciative of the small but non-zero changes a company is making, and also at the same time, make it clear that a great deal more change is both necessary and long, long overdue. Being specific with the latter is helpful, too. "We're glad you've finally for the first time portrayed an Ultramarine as not white. We now ask you to sculpt a variety of facial and body types, represent women in your factions (especially imperial guard), eliminate the hypersexualization and fetishization of the women you do portray, hire women and minorities, and take proactive action to encourage women and minorities to attend your events (when covid is over of course)." Or whatever. Be clear up front that you appreciate the changes made, because its true that probably a few people within the company have stuck their necks out, perhaps in the face of internal resistance, and your appreciative voice gives those people support and ammunition. That's important, because it's easy to think of companies as monoliths with individual characteristics rather than the reality that they are a bunch of people each with individual characteristics, but with a veil of privacy that tends to conceal internal deliberation and only make visible a certain carefully (or perhaps sloppily) curated and managed image and message. The corporate message isn't ever representative of what every single person within that company thinks or believes. Even without knowing their identities, you can empower the voices for change within that company by, as customers, voicing support for reforms and voicing demands that are aligned with those voices.
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Jul 5, 2020 02:07
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 5, 2020 02:11
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Arivia posted:this is what they offered to the bundle: They were contributing to a Kickstarter I'd backed, Eat Trash Be Free. This was the project update yesterday Update #22 posted:This update comes with a Content Warning for sexual harassment and associate topics. Please take that into consideration before reading further. Spoiler tags due to the content warning
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Jul 5, 2020 02:22
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Tarnop posted:They were contributing to a Kickstarter I'd backed, Eat Trash Be Free. This was the project update yesterday ETBF is a cool project and I'm glad the project runner kicked the real trash to the curb as thoroughly as they did.
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Jul 5, 2020 03:21
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https://twitter.com/TessFowler/status/1279493574900412416
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Jul 5, 2020 03:24
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mllaneza posted:ETBF is a cool project and I'm glad the project runner kicked the real trash to the curb as thoroughly as they did. Yeah I think that's a good response
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Jul 5, 2020 03:41
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What the gently caress. Goddamnit. The part where he admits he thinks that all men secretly agree got me the most. These fuckers are always deluding themselves.
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Jul 5, 2020 04:28
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This made my skin crawl. Jesus Christ wotc all you had to do was not let pedophiles, misogynists, and racists into your organization; why is this so hard (it’s because it’s a rotten organization that deserves to crumble).
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Jul 5, 2020 04:54
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Kestral posted:I feel sorry for the people in companies like Games Workshop who are generating institutional change basically by sheer force of will, dragging these companies kicking and screaming against decades of cultural inertia, who then read threads like this and find that their efforts are considered all but worthless because it's not fast enough, or not happening in someone's specific area of concern. It must be exhausting to try to do good, and have negative feedback heaped on you by your allies. If someone who actually worked for Games Workshop and was actively fighting for institutional change came in and posted about how excited they were about GW posting this message because it made them feel like their work was accomplishing something I'm sure that people would be generally more positive but we don't need to factor in the feelings of a hypothetical secret GW activist when reacting to their press releases.
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Jul 5, 2020 05:01
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Green Intern posted:This made my skin crawl. Jesus Christ wotc all you had to do was not let pedophiles, misogynists, and racists into your organization; why is this so hard (it’s because it’s a rotten organization that deserves to crumble). Look, it's not like there was any way for them to know that's who they were hiring, they don't just go out and publish-....oh
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Jul 5, 2020 05:58
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