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jokes posted:I guess this is the dumb part to me. I’ve dealt with so many businesses whose first moves are to spend absurd amounts of money, time, effort, and goodwill to gently caress over employees or try to cash in on name recognition instead of just doing a slightly different thing. The safety is in the redundancy— it sucks making a video game or a product over a 5 year period. But if you did it, convert it into a “new” game a year later by changing assets and some gameplay. Or make the factory produce an actually in-demand product instead of just shuttering operations you fucks. In the case of Riot specifically, they kinda did. Like, after years and years and years of only making the one game, they've made two new games, one a ... whatever you call it, Auto Chess game, using LoL assets, and the other is a Hearthstone game, but with lots of new assets. The thing is, this came after they would do periodic new game modes in LoL, that tried out various different things. One of them was an ARPG version of the game, they did some sick videos for it, and it had a pretty awesome Guardians of the Galaxy reminiscent re-theme of the characters. That they didn't then do more with it, or even leave it in the game, despite the obvious effort that had gone into it, makes me think that it was them testing the waters for exactly that, and that for whatever reason it didn't take off. The fact that they've made new games and none of them are the ARPG despite them almost making the ARPG suggests that it's not the low hanging fruit we both think it should be. Speaking of low hanging fruit that makes billions, I brought it up years ago, but, why isn't there a Harry Potter MMORPG? It designs itself, and makes billions day one? It wouldn't even have to be good, AT ALL. Like Olivander's alone would make a million, day one, with each wand costing 50 pence / cents each. (Although obviously you have to convert mugglebux into Enchanted Ingots to spend in game to obfuscate how much things are worth on a psychological level). Maybe it's not even an MMO, maybe it's just literally ANY kind of game (gently caress it, broomstick racing game? Bomberman clone replacing bombs with 'magic', Tetris but you're dropping potion ingredients?) that has microtransactions.
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Jul 6, 2020 10:49
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Sounds like 'Why not a Pokemon MMO?' The answer is MMOs have kinda had their day and everyone knows the downsides- they're expensive as poo poo to make and run, you have to manage and retain a playerbase of whining unpleasable weirdos, all for what generally amounts to a lovely ARPG. I'm pretty sure I saw an ad for a mobile Harry Potter themed Candy Crush clone, though who knows if that's official.
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Jul 6, 2020 11:07
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Hell, the Star Wars movies make billions and the games typically sell like crazy, and the goddamn Star Wars MMO hit the dizzying heights of “did not go out of business”.
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Jul 6, 2020 11:11
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Hell, the Star Wars movies make billions and the games typically sell like crazy, and the goddamn Star Wars MMO hit the dizzying heights of “did not go out of business”. One of them, anyway.
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Jul 6, 2020 11:27
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Yeah the target for "would casually give money to an MMO" is completely dwarfed by "would spend 10 earth dollars gambling I can get a 2020 spring festival swimsuit Snape, gently caress it 10 more wont kill me"
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Jul 6, 2020 11:41
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Ghost Leviathan posted:One of them, anyway. The fact I forgot Star Wars Galaxies existed says a lot about the level of success you can get from making an MMO out of an existing IP.
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Jul 6, 2020 11:45
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Ugly In The Morning posted:The fact I forgot Star Wars Galaxies existed says a lot about the level of success you can get from making an MMO out of an existing IP. My time playing SWG was I started it up and got a free speeder bike and picked up my first quest to go off into the distance and do something there, so I got on my free speeder and hit autorun facing the target, saw it would take like 4 minutes to get there so I started watching TV, then immediately uninstalled because I realized I could just be watching TV instead of babysitting a progress bar.
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Jul 6, 2020 11:56
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Ugly In The Morning posted:The fact I forgot Star Wars Galaxies existed says a lot about the level of success you can get from making an MMO out of an existing IP. A fun example of how they chased off basically their entire playerbase hoping to attract a new one that never materialised
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Jul 6, 2020 13:17
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well why not posted:One potential issue is that ARPGs current design kind of requires a decent control scheme. ie: not a phone. Fortnite and PubG are available on phones, while something like, say, Diablo would require a new approach. Immortal is probably a reaction to that. not that i've tried to play diablo with a touch interface but without thinking about it too hard, diablo is essentially pressing the left mouse button on enemies a trillion times interspersed with right clicks. i would think just hotbar plus touching screen a billion times would work.
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Jul 6, 2020 13:35
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The best star wars videogame is Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast Actually maybe its awful, I've not sat and played it since I was 16 and even then I think I just turned on cheats and killed everyone with a lightsaber so yeah, best Stars Wars game
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Jul 6, 2020 14:34
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:not that i've tried to play diablo with a touch interface but without thinking about it too hard, diablo is essentially pressing the left mouse button on enemies a trillion times interspersed with right clicks. i would think just hotbar plus touching screen a billion times would work. diablo games are basically an advanced form of cookie clicker. it should be very easy to translate it to phones
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Jul 6, 2020 14:35
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Rutibex posted:diablo games are basically an advanced form of cookie clicker. it should be very easy to translate it to phones ....? Is this irony? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50KBNQe5hTM
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Jul 6, 2020 14:42
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Rutibex posted:diablo games are basically an advanced form of cookie clicker. it should be very easy to translate it to phones There is literally a phone port of titan quest that's been out for years and plays just fine. I dont know where that guy got the idea that diablo just couldn't work on a phone interface.
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Jul 6, 2020 14:42
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DebonaireD posted:Gameplay is a nonsense word that only highlights how people who talk about games have no critical theory from which to grow their ideas. Itd be like if a critic said a movie had good lookfeel or a book had readplease. Like when someone says the shooting is "floaty" or the gameplay loops are "tight". It means nada. Wow! A real stupid person.
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Jul 6, 2020 16:12
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Glenn Quebec posted:Wow! A real stupid person. Turn on ur console
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Jul 6, 2020 16:23
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gameplay is an imprecise term though, that's true at least, it's really broad but i don't think it's useless i think the meaning of "floaty" is pretty clear: it means that you have a lot of "air time" during which you either have little player input or the input you have doesn't conform to the task you have to do. there was an explanation in here some time ago that showed that mario has fewer frames on the way down compared to going up, so that falling is faster and straighter than jumping. this article kind of explains it: http://thegamedesignforum.com/features/RD_SMW_3.html . the effect of this is basically analogous to lowering the DPI of your mouse and being able to more precisely shoot something while sacrificing the speed at which you point your gun at something else: mario has less x-axis freedom on the way down so that you can fine tune where you land more easily, while the upward part of the jump is what you use to "get into position" bad platformers don't do this and have boob-shaped jump arcs where going up and going down are the same thing, and feel floaty and weird https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu9SO6WOnYY this 90's mario clone for dos kind of lets you see this effect, it copies the basic concept of mario but not the physics, going down takes about as long as going up, game sucks as a result Shibawanko fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Jul 6, 2020 |
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Jul 6, 2020 16:29
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Shibawanko posted:gameplay is an imprecise term though, that's true at least, it's really broad but i don't think it's useless Yeah. If you like Morrowind, depending on your definition of gameplay, Morrowind either has great gameplay or really bad gameplay. Shibawanko posted:i think the meaning of "floaty" is pretty clear: it means that you have a lot of "air time" during which you either have little player input or the input you have doesn't conform to the task you have to do. Oh I thought it might be like the difference between jumping in Banjo-Kazooie vs. Super Mario 64. Jumping in Banjo-Kazooie is 'floaty', and you can easily adjust your position in mid-air to hit the platform, while jumping in Super Mario 64 isn't and you have to plan the jumps a little better.
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Jul 6, 2020 17:03
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the most fun part of morrowind's gameplay is just finding things. you don't get a marker, the quest will just say "ask around in vivec for this one guy" and you get clues, or "go to these ruins with the weird name and walk west until you see a rock shaped like a cock and balls, then turn south", it has a detective, navigational sort of element that makes it a lot more fun even if the combat is lame
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Jul 6, 2020 17:09
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Except the "dialogue" system in the game is beyond awful and the directions you get are inaccurate most of the time.
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Jul 6, 2020 17:16
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Yeah, there's a reason games developed things like icons and minimaps, because without them they got incredibly obtuse and tedious, and I imagine the graphical style didn't lend itself to easily identified landmarks.
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Jul 6, 2020 17:23
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Yeah, there's a reason games developed things like icons and minimaps, because without them they got incredibly obtuse and tedious, and I imagine the graphical style didn't lend itself to easily identified landmarks. i think it usually worked pretty well, it doesn't always give you completely accurate instructions but it does point you in the general direction, i thought it was satisfying to find a quest objective. in general the bigger the reward is, the less accurate the instructions become, like the final imperial cult quests or finding the mudcrab merchant. there's also bits in the game that you can just sort of stumble across by accident which i like
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Jul 6, 2020 17:28
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Yeah, there's a reason games developed things like icons and minimaps, because without them they got incredibly obtuse and tedious, and I imagine the graphical style didn't lend itself to easily identified landmarks. i'll be damned if i'm going outside to an unfamiliar place without a GPS. minimaps rule
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Jul 6, 2020 17:49
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i want to have a map but i dont want a pinpoint-accurate quest pointer
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Jul 6, 2020 17:53
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A lot of games these days allow you to turn that stuff off if you wish
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Jul 6, 2020 17:55
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fridge corn posted:A lot of games these days allow you to turn that stuff off if you wish except they don't ever give you real directions or hints other than "follow the big glowing quest marker" so when you turn it off you're often just stuck turning off parts of the UI does not magically fix bad design
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Jul 6, 2020 17:57
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i don't think quest markers break immersion that much. Find Object is only a 2nd level spell in D&D and that predates all these computer RPGs divination spells get things going!
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Jul 6, 2020 17:57
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food court bailiff posted:except they don't ever give you real directions or hints other than "follow the big glowing quest marker" so when you turn it off you're often just stuck Lol I never thought about that cuz I never turn that stuff off but lol
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Jul 6, 2020 18:00
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Hitman (2016) was the first game that really made me want to switch off all the HUD elements and really focus on the world and the detail of the maps
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Jul 6, 2020 18:00
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Rutibex posted:i don't think quest markers break immersion that much. Find Object is only a 2nd level spell in D&D and that predates all these computer RPGs They don't break immersion so much as sacrifice one potential way to make a small quest more interesting in order to make it a lot less frustrating. Following lovely directions from NPCs in Morrowind still sticks with me as genuinely fun and deeply expanding how much I was engaging with the always boring activity of walking to the quest. It's not wrong to have quest markers, but it does cost you something subtle
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Jul 6, 2020 18:09
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Rutibex posted:i don't think quest markers break immersion that much. Find Object is only a 2nd level spell in D&D and that predates all these computer RPGs you don't get second level spells until, at the earliest, level 3 - and if you used up one of your two level 2 spell slots on loving find object your party would rightfully kick you out of the group
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Jul 6, 2020 18:11
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theres a particular quest in morrowind that starts in a grazelands ashlander camp where some old tart has a prophecy so she tells you to walk west until you come to a rock shaped like fingers and find a white guar, which you're told to follow. as usual the directions aren't super precise but if you just walk west and look around a bit you will find the rock and the guar and you follow it, it leads you to a dead body under a big tree which is supposed to be the corpse of some missionary who died long ago but appeared again to you, or something like that. it's just a simple series of event triggers and dialogues but i liked that quest, it really does feel a bit like youre watching a weird religious miracle come true oblivion didnt have things like that but at least it did keep some of the random weird quests and world details so that if you broke into a random house there'd be a 50% chance that the owner had been sucked into a haunted painting or whatever
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Jul 6, 2020 18:17
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:not that i've tried to play diablo with a touch interface but without thinking about it too hard, diablo is essentially pressing the left mouse button on enemies a trillion times interspersed with right clicks. i would think just hotbar plus touching screen a billion times would work. ngl i hadn't thought about it before but touch screen is basically the ultimate tool for diablo alikes. however, diablo immobage is still trash
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Jul 6, 2020 18:59
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The White Dragon posted:ngl i hadn't thought about it before but touch screen is basically the ultimate tool for diablo alikes. however, diablo immobage is still trash the best part of diablo is the cool random loot, which means its impossible for a mobile developer to make a good diablo. it's ideologically impossible for their brain
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Jul 6, 2020 19:06
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People who get hyped up over a game when all that's been shown is cgi trailers give me the grumpy dumpies. Especially when it's over the course of a few years.
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Jul 6, 2020 19:25
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DebonaireD posted:Gameplay is a nonsense word that only highlights how people who talk about games have no critical theory from which to grow their ideas. Itd be like if a critic said a movie had good lookfeel or a book had readplease. Like when someone says the shooting is "floaty" or the gameplay loops are "tight". It means nada. I agree with this. But I'm also very stupid so, ymmv
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Jul 6, 2020 20:28
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ChazTurbo posted:People who get hyped up over a game when all that's been shown is cgi trailers give me the grumpy dumpies. Especially when it's over the course of a few years. the best games just come out of nowhere. if a game needs a year long hype campaign its rubbish
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Jul 6, 2020 20:53
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ikanreed posted:It's not wrong to have quest markers, but it does cost you something subtle The most obvious thing they take away is the need to explore. I can't even help myself, if there is a quest marker on the map, I just line myself up with it and press forward until I get there. Whoever made the map made paths and rivers or whatever but they better hope they put all the good stuff along a straight line. Hell, I think most of us have brute-forced our way over a mountain in a game because the marker told us it was in our way. RDR2 did it well - if you turned off the markers people would give you actual directions with landmarks.
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Jul 6, 2020 21:37
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Manager Hoyden posted:The most obvious thing they take away is the need to explore. I can't even help myself, if there is a quest marker on the map, I just line myself up with it and press forward until I get there. Whoever made the map made paths and rivers or whatever but they better hope they put all the good stuff along a straight line. Hell, I think most of us have brute-forced our way over a mountain in a game because the marker told us it was in our way. Eh, give me a blank map to fill in and I'll explore every last corner. Of course I'm a broke brain 100%er so....
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Jul 6, 2020 22:17
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Manager Hoyden posted:
They made a little bit of effort, but I wouldn't say they "did it well". Sometimes a mission will give you an objective, like "hide" and if you have map markers turned off you don't realize they don't actually mean "hide" they mean "hide in this specific hiding place that we are highlighting on your minimap".
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Jul 6, 2020 22:51
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I gave up on Conan Exiles on ps4 once I found out the dong slider was disabled on consoles. 0/10 would not recommend. .01 hours playtime.
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Jul 6, 2020 23:04
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