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cakesmith handyman posted:Get an external 4x4 cage sounds like the best choice. From those of us who drive in Florida: No reason to use that emote, you are correct. Welcome to Thunderdome Hertz! Your compact Ford Expedition is armed and ready, rear gunners provided at additional cost.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:37
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Motronic posted:And if you are wearing a helmet on the street you've just massively cut down your peripheral vision, which isn't really much of a problem for most kinds of racing, and for the kinds where it is a problem you have spotters above you radioing this information directly into your ear holes. And with the helmet you've increased the mass hanging off your neck, combine that with the harness significantly limiting your forward motion leads to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilar_skull_fracture so make sure you wear that HNR which pretty much kills any remaining ability to turn your head around to look around.
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Jul 7, 2020 19:12
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FatCow posted:And with the helmet you've increased the mass hanging off your neck, combine that with the harness significantly limiting your forward motion leads to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilar_skull_fracture so make sure you wear that HNR which pretty much kills any remaining ability to turn your head around to look around. Yep. This is pretty much an "all the gear all the time" situation. It's just not practical for street driving, as much as I wish it could be.
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Jul 7, 2020 19:17
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6pt > 5pt Also, a containment seat with a harness will keep your head away from the cage, or so I tell myself every time I drive the car to the track. Visibility isn't really an issue with blind spot mirrors and some planning. But yeah, it still isn't safe.
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Jul 7, 2020 19:19
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BigPaddy posted:The thing is that even if I do all that it doesn't mean the old heap will be "safe" by modern standards. As you stated it will just leave behind more of me to be identified. Well I mean there's really nothing you can do to make a '63 or whatever Grand Prix safe, but klonking your head on some chromoly tube can turn a survivable accident into a fatal one. Especially if you're wearing a lap belt on a bench seat, or something like that. Because it will never be a safe car, you have to accept some amount of risk to drive it at all, so it's up to you whether the extra risk from having the cage bothers you. I certainly wouldn't judge you for deciding that a cool car is a cool car and you'll drive it whenever you want, but you should be aware of the risks involved.
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Jul 7, 2020 19:25
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I doubt I will throw a roll bar in it because it is not going to be fast it is just going to be hot roddy and obnoxious for Power Tour, Lemons Rallys etc... the number of miles makes you wonder if it is worth it but then back in the 60s people will have put thousands of miles on their death barges and survived so I need to stop over thinking it.
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Jul 7, 2020 19:32
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In 1965 there were 5.54 deaths per million miles driven. In 2018 it was 1.22. So even though your overall chance of dying is pretty drat low, it's still 5 times worse than what driving a modern car would give you. (well, roughly. as everyone around you has more collision avoidance features driving a vintage vehicle will see some improvements in your chances of dying. and there are still a lot of accident types where it doesn't matter what the gently caress you're driving, you still gonna die)
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Jul 7, 2020 19:41
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xzzy posted:In 1965 there were 5.54 deaths per million miles driven. In 2018 it was 1.22. So even though your overall chance of dying is pretty drat low, it's still 5 times worse than what driving a modern car would give you. You're going to die because everyone is distracted looking at your cool vintage car
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Jul 7, 2020 19:48
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xzzy posted:In 1965 there were 5.54 deaths per million miles driven. In 2018 it was 1.22. So even though your overall chance of dying is pretty drat low, it's still 5 times worse than what driving a modern car would give you. people also DUI'd like mother fuckers it would be interesting to look at severe injury rates. i think anecdotally one of the biggest improvements has been to severe injuries in accidents. lotta people just walk away from bad hits now.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:34
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What's the expiration date on an airbag? I think back to that gif of the watermelons on exploding airbags and wonder if my nearly 30yo airbag is going to hurt me or help me in an accident And then I force that thought out of my head because it's terrifying
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Jul 7, 2020 20:41
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If it's 30 years old it's an early single stage in a fragile car so even if working correctly it is gonna be Exciting. just look at some of that crash test video footage of the Rover 100.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:49
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BigPaddy posted:So here is a question I ask myself about car safety. If I plan on doing a lot of miles in something old that might see some track use is or worth putting in a roll cage for the extra crash protection as well being able to be teched for higher ET at the strip? Common sense says no don’t put racing stuff in a car that maybe you might make go fast because of the low probability you get into an accident and because it is old will just crush you into a pulp because the same cage might just do more harm than good. A cage in a car can make it much safer, even without a helmet. If your head can touch the cage in a crash then your cage is going to smash the poo poo out of your helmet as well on a violent crash on a track. A properly designed and installed cage should at all point have 15cm(? Thats what we tested to) of clearence from the head / helmet at all times as well as possessing the correct level of padding. If your car seat wont allow for that then you need to do an aftermarket with lowering brackets etc. With a well designed cage fitted competently you end up with say my VR4 that was a very nice daily driver with a full FIA international level level cage with the appropriate seats and five point harness. No helmet required at all and I would happily take the bet that you would be perfectly fine without a helmet in a truly violent accident, especially given I *did* walk out perfectly fine after a 150kph jump went very wrong without the helmet touching anything. The issue is badly designed cages and safety systems, which frankly in the USA is far too drat common. If you are going to get a cage into a car then do it right and dont use these crappy bolt in jobs that have no thought put into them as their actual ability to withstand a crash at all. If that cage is going to cause more harm than good on the road then it is utterly worthless on a track - and if you have head clearence issues then the rest of the safety system has to be considered wether it's road or track. You either do it right or dont do it. Do it right costs a lot of money and time - and thought.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:36
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Are there standards for a cage design? I'm guessing there are 'known strong' designs, but are there recommendations if you are making something from scratch?
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Jul 7, 2020 21:43
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FIA Article 253 is the stuff you're looking for
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Jul 7, 2020 21:51
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taqueso posted:Are there standards for a cage design? I'm guessing there are 'known strong' designs, but are there recommendations if you are making something from scratch? Yes. FIA article as above or https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...X2xrS8d4pe3umk0 is a good starter point. Some of the cage designs mentioned are for older cars with older log books - if you have say a car logbooked in 1996 like my RX-7 is, I can if I so want to, use a cage that was deemed legal in 1996. If I logbook one of my WRX's in 2020, it has to comply with 2020 regulations, which means a much more structural cage. Image J-9 is your jump off point for a modern strong well tested cage that will pass all tech inspections. Okay so build your own? Not easy as the fabrication / weld quality level is high as well as you need to have the ability to sign off on your own ROPS which requires a lot of time and inspections to make sure you have complied with quality and materials / design to become a recognised builder. So for instance on the VR4 we had to become recognised for ROPS, submit cage layouts, spent months building the cage in the first place, materials, have the welds inspected etc. At the end we then put a plaque on the main hoop certifying the cage to the standard of the day and also registered with the FIA as recognised cage builders. TBH it's a lot easier (and in the end cheaper) just to find someone who is recognised as a ROPS and get then to supply and fit.
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Jul 7, 2020 23:42
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Thank you all. The helmet part is what I was missing, regarding why the roll cage isn't good for dailies. Brb, gotta take mine out real quick But seriously, thanks
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Jul 8, 2020 00:44
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taqueso posted:Are there standards for a cage design? I'm guessing there are 'known strong' designs, but are there recommendations if you are making something from scratch? It's usually build to suit the rules of the sanctioning body. So SCCA/NASA/NHRA/FIA etc. They all give a solid basic explanation of the concept but can still be built poorly while complying to the letter of the law. I say this having only really read the rules for everything but FIA. The rules generally try to balance safety without letting anyone spend their way to first place. This means general rules like "the main hoop must be one continuous piece bent no more than 180 deg total" and "the cage must be attached at a minimum of 6 places but no more than 8". Generally they lay out the minimum, the fundamentals of the design, minimum material type and size/thickness, and recommended upgrades. NHRA wins first place for the worst rules IMHO. They allow main hoops without a diagonal brace and allow bends in down tubes that go to the rear of the car. It gets better at lower ETs but when you first hit need a rollbar I think it's a little to open.
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Jul 8, 2020 01:14
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honda whisperer posted:NHRA wins first place for the worst rules IMHO. They allow main hoops without a diagonal brace and allow bends in down tubes that go to the rear of the car. It gets better at lower ETs but when you first hit need a rollbar I think it's a little to open. I always have a right eyebrow raise at drag racing cage rules. Picking on Mechanical Stig for this one - his cage would be stupid dangerous in a crash and it's a cage legal to a 7.9 ET - it's got no diagonals, it has bent legs, it has no real supports anywhere to tie into the body and I'm just WTF how the hell is this legal? (It's 100% legal). I got away with a cage like that in a old rally car but it had a log book from 1986, there is not a chance in hell it would pass muster for a club supersprint. It got what nearly 900Kw and traps at nearly 250kph? One issue I suppose is that OEM road cars are now pushing 9's and a lot of wamed road cars can easily do one and done's for a 10.5 ET but still. It's nuts what you can legally run
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Jul 8, 2020 02:14
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:I always have a right eyebrow raise at drag racing cage rules. Picking on Mechanical Stig for this one - his cage would be stupid dangerous in a crash and it's a cage legal to a 7.9 ET - it's got no diagonals, it has bent legs, it has no real supports anywhere to tie into the body and I'm just WTF how the hell is this legal? (It's 100% legal). I got away with a cage like that in a old rally car but it had a log book from 1986, there is not a chance in hell it would pass muster for a club supersprint. It got what nearly 900Kw and traps at nearly 250kph? This is a total guess, but all I've come up with is parallel walls. They're not going nose in or door slapping those walls at the relative speeds of rally or road racing.
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Jul 8, 2020 02:57
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honda whisperer posted:This is a total guess, but all I've come up with is parallel walls. They're not going nose in or door slapping those walls at the relative speeds of rally or road racing. If it goes wrong they often are going faster. Say if you have the not unlikely senario of.... well lets pick on Cleetus McFarland..... is driving Ruby and the car snaps an axle at 1000ft, driving it hard into the wall and flipping it. The cage in that car is teched to 8.5 and it would likely collapse making the accident worse - thats going 240kph at that point. Yeah yeah I get it, rallying and circuit is more likely to have an off and we're racing for far longer. It still doesnt make sense a rollbar/cage that makes an accident more dangerous is in any way allowed.
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Jul 8, 2020 03:19
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If anything NHRA should require stronger cages, EV response time is significantly better on a drag strip than a road course and driver egress isn't as critical.
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Jul 8, 2020 03:27
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:If it goes wrong they often are going faster. I'm not saying I support it. Just that they get away with less cage since they're not flooring at a 90 degree turn. Cleetus is doing that speed parallel to the wall not straight at it. (Total conjecture on my part) OSHA rules for example are written in blood. NHRA won't catch up until they're forced to. I wish this wasn't the case. Remember this started because I called their rules the sketchiest I had seen.
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Jul 8, 2020 04:07
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honda whisperer posted:I'm not saying I support it. Just that they get away with less cage since they're not flooring at a 90 degree turn. Cleetus is doing that speed parallel to the wall not straight at it. (Total conjecture on my part) I never said you did support it, I read you as saying it was dumb and I agree. I'm more or less pointing out that a lot of these cars are far faster and things can go horribly wrong at much higher speeds that us rally or roadies would ever be at - the axle break senario (which isnt fanciful, hell even a tyre blowout would do it) would send a car straight into the wall at well over 200kph which makes the lax rules about cages absolutly insane, esp ones that are liable to collapse which really makes you question the sanctioning body's reason why they allow such poorly thought out designs. Hell, there's enough videos of cars breaking traction on the top end of a run to see just how likely a hard wall impact actually is It really gets me concerned you see all these drag videoes where they have loose poo poo in the car on a 8 second pass but thats for another discuss.... wait this is the right thread for that question
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Jul 8, 2020 05:26
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:people also DUI'd like mother fuckers There's also the confounding factor of medical advances. There's poo poo that's survivable now that's drat near miraculous. There's no way to tell how many people back then would have survived if their doctors were time travelers but everything else was the same.
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Jul 8, 2020 19:21
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:If it goes wrong they often are going faster. Cleetus seems to give zero fucks about safety. Hell, his belts are loose most of the time. Seems like most YouTubers prioritize safety last, which kind of sucks since they are what 95% (wag) of the car people are using as some kind of beacon for builds/safety/etc. Outside of the small circle of actual hardcore track people it seems like safety is viewed as a dumb joke.
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Jul 8, 2020 19:32
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 I almost said, "where's the D?" but I'm willing to bet that's what they want... GnarlyCharlie4u fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Jul 8, 2020 |
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Jul 8, 2020 20:19
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Why are Tesla owners so deluded? This isn't even the best looking generic looking car that Tesla make  Obviously the replies and retweets are full of people clowning on him and him pretending he isn't rattled. https://twitter.com/TeslaTested/status/1280312573515239432?s=19 Olympic Mathlete fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Jul 8, 2020 |
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Jul 8, 2020 20:27
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There was a video that got popular on reddit the other day of some dude driving up to a house in his tesla. A couple young kids come out all wide eyed and fawning over how amazing it is. The title was along the lines of "tesla has won the future" or something like that. Threw up a little in my mouth.
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Jul 8, 2020 20:31
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I seriously do not get why people think they're so stylish gently caress I hate the front end of those things
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Jul 8, 2020 21:21
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It looks like a generic GTAV car.
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Jul 8, 2020 21:22
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I think it’s just because it’s the first widely available electric car that’s attainable-ish and doesn’t look like complete rear end. It’s no beauty queen but it’s fine with a couple uniqueish design cues that look good if that’s your thing. The Tesla crossover/suv thing looks horrible though. Not the truck the other one.
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Jul 8, 2020 21:37
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Jul 9, 2020 00:57
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Frond posted:It looks like a generic GTAV car. I thought the pics were from GTA at first. Oh cool you modeled a tesla in game.
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Jul 9, 2020 01:26
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That's a Saint's Row car.
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Jul 9, 2020 13:19
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I used to think the Model S looked fantastic but that was 7? years ago. Even then, it definitely wasn't the most photogenic car of all time, that honor belongs to the
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Jul 9, 2020 15:29
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Terrible because it's been left to rot.  LHD too
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Jul 9, 2020 17:11
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:
The ED is in the driver's seat.
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Jul 9, 2020 19:17
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angryrobots posted:Terrible because it's been left to rot. "Barn find, lost the title, $20k, no lowballers"
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Jul 9, 2020 20:09
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Powershift posted:"Barn find, lost the title, $20k, no lowballers" Nah when it's got that much foliage growing out it, it never made it out of the grasp of the old fart that parked it there. NOT FOR SALE he insists to the thousandth idiot that saw it from the road and knocked on the door.
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Jul 9, 2020 20:18
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angryrobots posted:Terrible because it's been left to rot. It would look great in a tomb raider theme restaurant.
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Jul 9, 2020 20:55
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