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bowmore posted:when have we not culture war’d In our response to the pandemic so far, compared to basket cases like the US or UK edit - I may be proven wrong but I genuinely do think Melbourne will be more or less OK with masks whereas if this had happened in Perth or Queensland, maybe not Sulla Faex posted:On paper, Australia would be in a very good position to eliminate COVID entirely. Small population, geographically distant from neighbours, water borders, strong and well-funded border force that already controls for foreign biomass etc, high urban/low rural population with no real extremes of urban density (i.e. wherever there are significant numbers of people, there's already infrastructure to deal with them, but no real slums), very wealthy, high education population, generally good infrastructure (and the money to support/expand it), a legal system that allows for extraordinary government responses, and a whole bunch of other factors that would help control something like this. It's really loving classic that what appears to have finally brought us undone is privatisation.
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Jul 10, 2020 09:39
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freebooter posted:You reckon Australians will accept mask wearing, or will we go down the American culture war route because of fragile masculinity/association with Asians? Our conservative thought leaders just import poo poo from America these days so they can't wait for mandatory mask wearing so they can whip people into a frenzy about it
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Jul 10, 2020 09:40
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I think melbourne will accept masks, mostly
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Jul 10, 2020 09:48
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bowmore posted:I do agree with you tho Sulla trap sprung, welcome to the Bad Poster Zone
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Jul 10, 2020 09:48
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I wonder if all those heroes stanning for a war with china and indonesia and whicbever other dog whistle obsession are ever going to realise that signing up for a war is going to require a little more discomfort than wearing a mask when you do your shopping, which is already apparently an unacceptable facet of total war Probably everyone just assumes they'd naturally be a remote drone operator or a WFH officer that orders pressganged asylum seekers into battle via slack from the comfort of their lounge room sofa
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Jul 10, 2020 09:53
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realbez posted:I think melbourne will accept masks, mostly I'm wearing a mask from now on in public, which is basically the weekly shop at this point. I see a fair few people wearing them in the posh inner east of Melbourne where I live.
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Jul 10, 2020 09:53
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just sell wearing masks as being like Are Folk Hero Ned Kelly's
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Jul 10, 2020 09:55
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print masks with the southern cross on them and tell them it's the latest initiative from the KKK
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Jul 10, 2020 09:55
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I mean even in America 65% of the population are wearing masks. We don’t wear them because the government hasn’t pushed it. Again this thread trips over its dick to try and prove something that doesn’t happen. I mean look at the threads at the start of the first lockdown. “We will definitely have double cases every 2-3 days. This isn’t enough.” “No one is distancing, gently caress this country!” Yet every state has either completely eradicated it or came really close before some horny security guard came (lol) into it.
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Jul 10, 2020 09:57
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Sulla Faex posted:IANAI (i am not an immunologist) but isn't the 'common cold' a large number of closely associated but distinct viruses and each time we get one, we get T-cells and antibodies for it, so we generally never catch that one again, but there are just so many that easily enough mutate that we'll never be able to build up immunities (or vaccinations) to cover even a chunk of the spread.. the flu vaccine is just like 2-5 of the most widespread/probable viruses that season, right? Some of the viruses that are 'common colds' are coronaviruses, and some aren't. The studies that found antibodies only last a few months does suggest immunity might only last that long, though it's not definite or anything and more research needs to be done of course. I've seen scientists compare that stat to SARS, which Covid is the most closely related to, and had antibodies last for at least a year, so it's not a great sign.
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Jul 10, 2020 09:59
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EoinCannon posted:I'm wearing a mask from now on in public, which is basically the weekly shop at this point. I see a fair few people wearing them in the posh inner east of Melbourne where I live. I had to go to Woolies today in the posh inner south-east to pick up an order because online delivery is hosed, and the only people I saw wearing them were elderly, Asian, or a handful of supermarket staff. (Yes I was wearing one.) It was maybe 1 in every 50 people but honestly that's better than it was in March/April.
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Jul 10, 2020 09:59
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No one cared who I was until I put on the mask.
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Jul 10, 2020 10:04
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teacup posted:I mean even in America 65% of the population are wearing masks. We don’t wear them because the government hasn’t pushed it. Again this thread trips over its dick to try and prove something that doesn’t happen. I don't think I agree with this. Numbers don't ever speak for themselves, and my impression is that the Australian federal (as well as some states) response has been aimed at answering the question "what is the bare minimum we can do to pretend like we're in control and avoid political backlash if things go pear shaped". You can be lucky or unlucky within that, and someone winning the lottery doesn't make playing it a sound financial strategy You can see the result of this kind of thinking in Sweden -- their fatality rate is disproportionately high and they haven't really seen any economic gains to justify it
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Jul 10, 2020 10:04
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Sulla Faex posted:I don't think I agree with this. Numbers don't ever speak for themselves, and my impression is that the Australian federal (as well as some states) response has been aimed at answering the question "what is the bare minimum we can do to pretend like we're in control and avoid political backlash if things go pear shaped". You can be lucky or unlucky within that, and someone winning the lottery doesn't make playing it a sound financial strategy I’m just saying a lot of people in this thread have said their anecdotal observations are that no one is doing the right thing, the figures absolutely do not back this up. We are one of the furthest examples from Sweden so I’m really not sure why you bring this up. It further proves my point.
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Jul 10, 2020 10:28
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hambeet posted:you mean just evolving towards being something not as damaging? Yes, but also everyone will eventually have residual immunity from being infected in childhood that might not prevent repeat infections later in life but will reduce their severity
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Jul 10, 2020 10:28
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Sulla Faex posted:I wonder if all those heroes stanning for a war with china and indonesia and whicbever other dog whistle obsession are ever going to realise that signing up for a war is going to require a little more discomfort than wearing a mask when you do your shopping, which is already apparently an unacceptable facet of total war Lots of people probably think that war is just something we do to non-white countries.
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Jul 10, 2020 10:44
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teacup posted:I’m just saying a lot of people in this thread have said their anecdotal observations are that no one is doing the right thing, the figures absolutely do not back this up. We are one of the furthest examples from Sweden so I’m really not sure why you bring this up. It further proves my point. Hi, Anecdote here. I went to a nursing home today for my job. A resident there needed to see her solicitor but the solicitor hadn't had his flu jab, so they met just outside the door to get around this. If we had any level of community transition where I live, we would be 100% hosed. Also, get your loving flu shots.
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Jul 10, 2020 10:45
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(From today) https://twitter.com/GregHuntMP/status/1281509175118516225?s=20 Low quality masks put on by amateurs (ie the common situation) aren't going to do much to stop you getting the disease but if you're a plague carrier you'll infect fewer people.
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Jul 10, 2020 10:59
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Sulla Faex posted:trap sprung, welcome to the Bad Poster Zone
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Jul 10, 2020 11:02
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Doctor Spaceman posted:(From today) Which is why it’s important to encourage general use given the whole asymptomatic/presymptomatic transmission thing
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Jul 10, 2020 11:02
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teacup posted:I’m just saying a lot of people in this thread have said their anecdotal observations are that no one is doing the right thing, the figures absolutely do not back this up. We are one of the furthest examples from Sweden so I’m really not sure why you bring this up. It further proves my point. I'm saying that the figures don't speak for themselves - Sweden went for a similar soft approach that didn't work out for them, which is the point of the comparison. Saying that Australia's numbers are good so the Australian strategy was therefore correct, well-educated or scientifically sound, could also be used to defend russian roulette -- 5 times out of 6, nothing happens. And so those 5 people will point at their unexploded head and say there's nothing wrong with playing this sort of game That's an extreme analogy and I'm also not asking you to provide more evidence to defend your position than I'm willing to provide, but I'm trying to illustrate my point which was that just because the numbers looked good for a while, doesn't mean it was the safe or smart thing to do. Maybe in years to come it will turn out that Australia has a particular configuration of contexts that makes it especially resilient to these sorts of epidemics, but to the best of my knowledge we didn't have and still don't have that kind of information available to inform our decisions. America also has followed this style of reaction and that absolutely hasn't worked out for them.. Australia has a number of things going for it but the two key parts of the response that I'm aware of have been closing the airports early (prompted by other countries and a lot of travellers cancelling trips anyway, and weakened by things like the Ruby Princess) and doing extensive testing of symptomatic cases or people with direct contact to international hotspots (correct me if I'm wrong here, it's hard to keep the different countries and states and timeframes in order). Which, even since the early days, we've known has been an inaccurate way to describe the spread of this virus
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Jul 10, 2020 11:06
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Hang on, where are the studies showing that homemade masks are ineffective regarding spread? Last I heard was that, second to not going out at all, it's the best thing you can do personally to minimise spread. Even the cotton dust masks were supposed to be significantly helpful at reducing spread
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Jul 10, 2020 11:10
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Sulla Faex posted:Hang on, where are the studies showing that homemade masks are ineffective regarding spread? Last I heard was that, second to not going out at all, it's the best thing you can do personally to minimise spread. Even the cotton dust masks were supposed to be significantly helpful at reducing spread The post was specifically in reference to how improvised masks / good masks not warn correctly will not prevent the wearer from contracting the virus which is true. The point of wearing masks is to combat Covid19's one weird trick that it is contagious before onset of symptoms by protecting others from pre/asymptomatic carriers if those cases are wearing masks because everyone wears masks. The quality of the mask is likely fairly irrelevant relative to the importance of a high percentage of people wearing some mask even while feeling healthy.
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Jul 10, 2020 11:22
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Sulla Faex posted:I'm saying that the figures don't speak for themselves - Sweden went for a similar soft approach that didn't work out for them, which is the point of the comparison. Saying that Australia's numbers are good so the Australian strategy was therefore correct, well-educated or scientifically sound, could also be used to defend russian roulette -- 5 times out of 6, nothing happens. And so those 5 people will point at their unexploded head and say there's nothing wrong with playing this sort of game Fair enough. I think neither of us can definitely say (not are you and I am not trying to so sorry if I came off this way) right now due to lack of evidence (which really we will only get with hindsight). I do still think you’re potentially pre-emptively selling it short so far. It’s worked in various states that have all locked down separately. I guess my main point is more this anecdotal stuff is dumb and I think that whole your point is valid- it’s too early to tell whether it’s a fluke or not (I still argue that Australians actually just got behind the plan and it worked but still) but it’s also too early and a bit silly to immediately decry it as not going to work either. We can only go off what we have in front of us. And argue or not the numbers went down last time aagain your example of Sweden- they just ignored it totally. This isn’t that. Russian roulette can’t really stretch too many metaphors but if we are sitting at a table with almost any other western nation on earth we are one of the few ones who didn’t blow their brains out, and we at least had a strategy when pulling the trigger. In any case I do think one spanner in the works is it’s fairly clear this level of community spread did not exist in NSW before which is scary. I hope we can lock it down.
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Jul 10, 2020 11:23
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:Why social distance? All the plague ridden people are safely contained in The Bad State. Get back to work, leaners. I'm in The Bad State 
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Jul 10, 2020 11:27
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Agreed. The thing that pisses me off is not that it's hit Australia so weakly, that's good news, but that in this response I see the same social drive behind the dismissal of climate change and the rejection of ecological, social, and economic responsibility. Australia is an incredibly lucky country and I believe this luck has engendered a laissez-faire/head in the sand approach to risk or criticism. But I'm also coming from a background where I believe the only way to move towards an adequately responsible approach involves essentially a revolution, so my goalposts are probably so far in the distance that it's not fair to avoid mentioning them For me it feels less like "phew, lucky we didn't get hit by that truck" and more like "holy poo poo why are we playing in the middle of a freeway" Sulla Faex fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Jul 10, 2020 |
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Jul 10, 2020 11:33
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Jul 10, 2020 11:41
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matthew guy if he traded the lobster dinners for bucket bongs and ice cream
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Jul 10, 2020 11:43
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Sulla Faex posted:For me it feels less like "phew, lucky we didn't get hit by that truck" and more like "holy poo poo why are we playing in the middle of a freeway" because playing in suburban streets is boring
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Jul 10, 2020 11:44
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For the person (people) holding up the BBC as a bastion of reporting I’m afraid I have to tell you those days are over. Everything that a right wing government is doing to the ABC here has happened to the BBC in the UK already. Decades of Tory rule have done that. Key editorial roles at the BBC have been staffed by right wingers and the political coverage especially is less ‘non-biased’ and ‘impartial’ and more in the ‘both sides’ and ‘just asking questions’ territory now.
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Jul 10, 2020 11:51
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https://twitter.com/chrisreason7/status/1281463305513480192?s=21
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Jul 10, 2020 12:15
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freebooter posted:edit - I may be proven wrong but I genuinely do think Melbourne will be more or less OK with masks whereas if this had happened in Perth or Queensland, maybe not during the lockdown, i saw a lot of people wearing masks i still see some old folks wearing masks one of the west australian characteristics of juche is wearing masks
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Jul 10, 2020 12:19
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I am a-okay with us all colloquially calling COVID-19 the "Melbourne Virus" from here on out, a++
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Jul 10, 2020 12:31
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Just went out tonight to grab some booze, and other than the the person at the register I was the only one with a mask that I saw. If the numbers keep rising this quick I give it two-three days till most people are I would say, particularly as this sort of thing snowballs, with not many people wanting to be first, but happy to when they see others doing it. Although the rise today did seem to be because they double the amount of tests they did... so if it just stays at this level I dunno, It may not just catch on in anyway.
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Jul 10, 2020 12:35
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Mattjpwns posted:I am a-okay with us all colloquially calling COVID-19 the "Melbourne Virus" from here on out, a++ Only if Trump uses this instead of China Virus too. There’s a Melbourne in Florida so it could work.
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Jul 10, 2020 12:58
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My interstate friends are sending me pitying messages and it's making me feel ten times worse lmao Additionally, lol at them for thinking it won't hit them in NSW and ACT within the month.
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Jul 10, 2020 13:02
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I got a message saying my son's test results are ready.....and I need to call my doctor to find out the results. Tomorrow. Does he have it? Who knows! What's weird is that last time we did the test the initial text message sent said we were clear..so maybe this means he does have it? My results aren't done yet either. Also, my cough is getting worse, but his is better. In the mean time, here's how 2020 is going so far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNf5dZAvF4I Comstar fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Jul 10, 2020 |
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Jul 10, 2020 13:14
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Helith posted:For the person (people) holding up the BBC as a bastion of reporting I’m afraid I have to tell you those days are over. The BBC is a state broadcaster and therefore has a mandate to be impartial, and if it demonstrates a bias it's a bias towards the status quo. This has always been the case and anyone who thinks it's a result of "decades of Tory rule" (Labour was in power for half of the last 30 years) is fooling themslves.
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Jul 10, 2020 14:01
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Apart from the workers I was the only one wearing a mask in the St Kilda Aldi this evening. I don't know if I'm just being hyper aware but people seemed just way less considerate too - lots of shuffling up close to look at shelves etc. I really hope we can all band together a bit, because between Collingwood (where I work) and St Kilda it was pretty business as usual
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Jul 10, 2020 14:19
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A few weeks out from my business (sydney) finally being able to resume and it looks like the rone coming back for seconds. Beginning to think I might have to change industries. Not super confident the Libs would keep Jobkeeper thru a second wave.
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