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Poll This poll is closed. |
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151 | 82.51% |
| No |
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32 | 17.49% |
| Total: | 183 votes | ||
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Hot Karl Marx posted:Looking like the Afghan-russian bounty story was a lie used to keep troops in Afghanistan Yeah, Glenn Greenwald is not a impartial or trusted source for this. Wouldn't shock me but Glenn's habit of twisting things out of context leaves me waiting for additional confirmation. EDIT: Also it's entirely possible to get pissed off about the possibility of the bounties and Trump not doing poo poo about it while also maintaining the belief that we should probably get the gently caress out of Afghanistan. These things aren't mutually exclusive unless you're a moron. Handsome Ralph fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jul 10, 2020 |
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Jul 10, 2020 17:14
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mlmp08 posted:Maybe put you on admin duty to free up a flyer to do flying This is exactly what happens. We had A LOT of retirees come back. There were probably twice as many Lt Cols as Majs in my squadron. You sit the ops desk, you straight up get assigned to a non-flying billet like a staff job, something like that. Maybe you're a ground instructor. The oldest man I've ever seen in uniform (in 2006 he was telling us stories about being a ROMAD and some flavor of JTAC controlling F-4s from a jeep) taught at our career field's schoolhouse, the phase about a year before actual flying. Dude had a leather jacket that made Clint Eastwood look young. Before we knew who the hell he was we referred to him as Major Grandpa. Godholio fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Jul 10, 2020 |
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Jul 10, 2020 17:17
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Riot Carol Danvers posted:At what point do we start listening to Glenn Greenwald or the New York Post or Colin Powell? Have you heard anything more about this story or at least it gaining traction the last week? It looks like the CIA didn't want to leave Afghanistan yet and this is how they forced the admin to stay. I could be wrong but this is what it's looking like now, and it's something they've done before.
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Jul 10, 2020 17:19
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Hot Karl Marx posted:Looking like the Afghan-russian bounty story was a lie used to keep troops in Afghanistan Do we have a better source than Matt Stoller and Glen loving Greenwald? Edit: Hot Karl Marx posted:Have you heard anything more about this story or at least it gaining traction the last week? I have not seen anything about this.
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Jul 10, 2020 17:25
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Hot Karl Marx posted:Have you heard anything more about this story or at least it gaining traction the last week? This week they were talking about how trump wanted to give intel to the Russians despite knowing about the bounties. Just because COVID is the popular story this week doesn’t mean that it was a cover up. When I was there in 2016 it was pretty well known Russia was in Herat supporting Taliban forces with Intel. It was predominantly a proxy for moving drugs in Europe, but it wouldn’t shock me if there were material supports.
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Jul 10, 2020 17:30
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/nsa-differed-from-cia-others-on-russia-bounty-intelligence-11593534220 I just think it's fishy is all
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Jul 10, 2020 17:32
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Hot Karl Marx posted:It looks like the CIA didn't want to leave Afghanistan yet and this is how they forced the admin to stay. I could be wrong but this is what it's looking like now, and it's something they've done before. I find this far less believable than the alternative that Russia did place bounties as a part of their strategy to perpetuate the quagmire in Afghanistan.
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Jul 10, 2020 17:32
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ManMythLegend posted:I find this far less believable than the alternative that Russia did place bounties as a part of their strategy to perpetuate the quagmire in Afghanistan. I find this far less believable than a CIA higher up not wanting to lose the big stick of a military presences in the place they spent the last 20 years of building assets. Entire careers have been forged in SW Asia, nobody want to lose their gaurenteed performance evaluation bullet to a dumb thing like peace.
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Jul 10, 2020 17:46
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Until it's reported by people other than Glenn Greenwald I'm not gonna take "CIA DID BOUNTY" seriously. It's certainly possible but I think Trump would've blurted that poo poo out already TBQH. Hell, I'll even split the difference and say I can believe that the Russians did pay bounties to the Taliban and the CIA exaggerated the extent of it to achieve whatever their deep state goals in getting more Americans killed there are.
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Jul 10, 2020 17:46
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That Works posted:Wooo looking forward to the rounding up and gassing of intelligentsia. Just so it doesn't disappear, this is really really really not cool. Meanwhile we're giving billions to religious organizations, too.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:05
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Hot Karl Marx posted:Have you heard anything more about this story or at least it gaining traction the last week? IIRC correctly Esper confirmed the story in a hearing yesterday. But even if that wasn't the case, if you follow the human centipede of increasingly digested poo poo from Powell -> NY Post -> Greenwald back to its source, here's what Powell said "What I know is that our military commanders on the ground did not think that it was as serious a problem as the newspapers were reporting and television was reporting,” Powell's take isn't that the story was bullshit, just that it didn't actually affect operations in Afghanistan. Which is probably true, they were going to shoot at US troops anyway. But from a US national security interest, I can understand why the DC community thinks allowing Russia to put a bounty on US troops is kind of a big deal and it doesn't surprise me that they were more flustered than McKenzie was. By the time that got filtered through increasingly hysterical reporting it turned into "the story is bullshit" which isn't what Powell said.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:08
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Yes, por que no los dos.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:09
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The big problem, to me, is "allowing Russia to put a bounty on US troops while trying to invite them to the G8" and similar acts of subservience to a country who is actively trying to destabilize and damage us.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:12
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Riot Carol Danvers posted:The big problem, to me, is "allowing Russia to put a bounty on US troops while trying to invite them to the G8" and similar acts of subservience to a country who is actively trying to destabilize and damage us. Oh, absolutely.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:14
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You know how you solve the problem of dudes trying to kill our dude's? Get them out of the area. And if you're concerned about Russia putting a foothold in Afghanistan, just loving let them. They're never going to make any progress there either so gently caress it.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:15
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Riot Carol Danvers posted:The big problem, to me, is "allowing Russia to put a bounty on US troops while trying to invite them to the G8" and similar acts of subservience to a country who is actively trying to destabilize and damage us. This argument can be used to undermine every single act of international diplomacy though? Not to say that I wouldn’t support conditioning an invite back to the G8 to stopping any such bounties and other similar programs against any other member.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:17
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Glenn Greenwald is a partisan hack that will report any half-truth he can if it says America Bad
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Jul 10, 2020 18:27
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Internet Wizard posted:Glenn Greenwald is a partisan hack that will report any half-truth he can if it says America Bad I feel like getting one of your sources imprisoned should sorta be a "should no longer be able to publish a story" kind of deal.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:28
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He's the kind of idiot who realizes that American Imperialism is Bad, but then instead of jumping to All Imperialism is Bad, he jumps to All Anti-Americanism is Good
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Jul 10, 2020 18:36
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Internet Wizard posted:He's the kind of idiot who realizes that American Imperialism is Bad, but then instead of jumping to All Imperialism is Bad, he jumps to All Anti-Americanism is Good This is the best description of Greenwald I've seen.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:42
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KirbyKhan posted:I find this far less believable than a CIA higher up not wanting to lose the big stick of a military presences in the place they spent the last 20 years of building assets. Entire careers have been forged in SW Asia, nobody want to lose their gaurenteed performance evaluation bullet to a dumb thing like peace. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the JFK assassination. I'm not white knighting the CIA here, but for people who have spent any time in or around the incompetence of the federal government you are pretty quick to jump on the "secret CIA conspiracy" bandwagon instead of believing that an explicit adversary of the US is using the same tactics we did almost 40 years ago for the same strategic purpose. Like, take a breath and remember that Occam's Razor is still a thing. ManMythLegend fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jul 10, 2020 |
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Jul 10, 2020 18:47
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Internet Wizard posted:He's the kind of idiot who realizes that American Imperialism is Bad, but then instead of jumping to All Imperialism is Bad, he jumps to All Anti-Americanism is Good 
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Jul 10, 2020 18:47
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Greenwald is the very embodiment of anti-anti-Trump too. Contrarianism for the sake of being insufferable.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:48
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facialimpediment posted:Greenwald is the very embodiment of anti-anti-Trump too. Contrarianism for the sake of being insufferable. And anyone who goes on Tucker's White Power News Hour regularly is suspect
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Jul 10, 2020 18:52
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That Works posted:Wooo looking forward to the rounding up and gassing of intelligentsia. I would also like to stop training doctors, scientists and engineers because some professor hurt my feelings.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:54
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By the way, looks like Donnie was about to get Tulsa'd again. The story as it was told on Air Force One: https://twitter.com/WSJPolitics/status/1281644970319859712?s=19 The story from, you know, the weather: https://twitter.com/dbernstein/status/1281629019994116096?s=19
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Jul 10, 2020 18:54
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Bored As gently caress posted:This is the best description of Greenwald I've seen. Haha yep that is great
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Jul 10, 2020 19:00
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ManMythLegend posted:I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the JFK assassination. Occams razor is a big thing. And this to me definitely seems like a case where russia did a bad thing that the CIA then exagerated for funding so everybody wins their own little fiefdoms like usual. But in 2020 there is also the opposite (Clancy Bludgeon?) wherein the conspiracy is only true because idiots grew up watching spy movies now believe that conspiracys and secret double crosses are the way you're supposed to run a spy agency, and thus accidentally do the lamest conspiracies with extreme incompetence.
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Jul 10, 2020 19:04
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hobbesmaster posted:This argument can be used to undermine every single act of international diplomacy though? Many countries seem to manage doing diplomacy without doing invasions, I'm sure we could figure it out eventually. To be honest, we're going to have to, eventually.
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Jul 10, 2020 19:06
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The big irony is greenwald is very literally on the target list for fascist goon squads at his home in Brazil, and he's putting out great reporting there. He's like public enemy number..I don't know, three at least? - to Brazil's versions of trump and Tucker. And the right wing assassinates people there. So Glenn practices what he preaches but also what he preaches is not consistent across national lines. He's a weirdo but I think on balance a useful one.
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Jul 10, 2020 19:07
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facialimpediment posted:By the way, looks like Donnie was about to get Tulsa'd again. im right in the middle of NH and DC and its looking like its about to get rough, i can see it being a thing
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Jul 10, 2020 19:26
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Nostalgia4Butts posted:im right in the middle of NH and DC and its looking like its about to get rough, i can see it being a thing Could it be bad weather? Sure. Preeeeeety big leap from "bad weather" to "and now suddenly Trump cares about the lives of any other human being on the planet."
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Jul 10, 2020 19:42
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Doc Hawkins posted:Many countries seem to manage doing diplomacy without doing invasions, I'm sure we could figure it out eventually. I mean, we COULD just invade everyone. And I can see that being something that a populist like Trump kicks off during the dying gasps of our empire, given our glorification of the military and tendency to declare war to hide internal issues
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Jul 10, 2020 19:46
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RFC2324 posted:I mean, we COULD just invade everyone. Rule of Acquisition number 34; War is good for business.
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Jul 10, 2020 19:48
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Mary Trump says, among his myriad other flaws, Donnie may have a learning disability. Cue FOX News saying "Well, Our President really wants schools to re-open in the face of a pandemic because he wants it better for the kids than he did!" in 3...2...1...
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Jul 10, 2020 19:49
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hobbesmaster posted:This argument can be used to undermine every single act of international diplomacy though? "If you promise to stop killing our guys we'll let you in the clubhouse" is an interesting foreign policy doctrine.
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Jul 10, 2020 20:02
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ManMythLegend posted:I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the JFK assassination. Yeah I was gonna say being around the IC is how I know that the deep state poo poo is made up garbage. Nobody as incompetent as our government could pull off a gigantic shadow plot like that.
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Jul 10, 2020 20:04
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I recently heard the point made that the reason the CIA has accomplished so much in the twentieth century is that they faced zero consequences for failure. If I ever tried to depose a leftist president in Latin America, I would probably have an incredibly stupid plan, gently caress it up even more, and at best be in prison forever, but they can try as many times as they like until a combination of accumulated advantage and dumb luck sees through their goal.
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Jul 10, 2020 20:16
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https://twitter.com/SenDuckworth/status/1281655344221974528?s=19 Future possible VP or President has not let up on the issue
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Jul 10, 2020 20:37
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Translation of the memo: "I don't risk gettin' get stuck in your LOOSAH state for any longah than I have'ta."
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Jul 10, 2020 20:44
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