Law Megathread: the stunner off the top rope that everyone but the defense saw coming

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Law Megathread: the stunner off the top rope that everyone but the defense saw coming

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Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

I'd really like to get more of the old gang back together here.

# ? Jul 10, 2020 05:55

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 10:38

GamingHyena: Jul 25, 2003; Devil's Advocate

Discendo Vox posted:

I'd really like to get more of the old gang back together here.

Law SMAC team game it is then.

# ? Jul 10, 2020 07:14

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

It has been a long time since I nerve gassed gaminghyena, too long

# ? Jul 10, 2020 13:15

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

blarzgh posted:

I'M BEING SLANDERED

Actually it's Libel

# ? Jul 10, 2020 14:52

TheWordOfTheDayIs: Nov 9, 2009; Blessed with an unmatched sense of direction

Vox Nihili posted:

So how about that Gorsuch decision in McGirt v. Oklahoma?

As a lawgoon and someone who hates Trump, I am delightfully entertained.

As an attorney for the State of Oklahoma, I am dreading what this likely means for the future of enforcing environmental regulations. I hope I'm wrong.

Gorsuch's "C'mon guys it won't be that bad, don't' be so pessimistic" stuff at the end of his opinion honestly pissed me off. He might be right, but it came across as pretty callous given the legal and political difficulties we already deal with.

# ? Jul 10, 2020 15:33

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

TheWordOfTheDayIs posted:

As a lawgoon and someone who hates Trump, I am delightfully entertained.

As an attorney for the State of Oklahoma, I am dreading what this likely means for the future of enforcing environmental regulations. I hope I'm wrong.

Gorsuch's "C'mon guys it won't be that bad, don't' be so pessimistic" stuff at the end of his opinion honestly pissed me off. He might be right, but it came across as pretty callous given the legal and political difficulties we already deal with.

personally i preferred his "well sure, this is going to suck for you, but think how much more the past two centuries have sucked for the creek nation!" part

https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1281574438073503754

# ? Jul 10, 2020 16:10

terrorist ambulance: Nov 5, 2009

Gorsuch appears to somewhat genuinely believe in textualism, rather than understand that it's a pretext to be used flexibly to clothe and conceal the otherwise naked political preferences in your judicial decisions. And it takes his reasoning to odd places, because textualism is an odd doctrine.

It kind of rules that they have been pushing this poo poo so long they actually got a guy who believes in it and is now doing wacky poo poo like cancelling jurisdiction in half of Oklahoma

# ? Jul 10, 2020 16:38

terrorist ambulance: Nov 5, 2009

I mean dude sucks but in a different way than Kavanaugh who is just an awfulness golem from head to toe

# ? Jul 10, 2020 16:39

Whitlam: Aug 2, 2014; Some goons overreact. Go figure.

So this McGirt v. Oklahoma decision seems like a pretty big deal. Was anyone kind of expecting it to go that was, or was this a shock decision? I get the vibe that it's more of a shock, but also it's 2020 hell world, anything goes.

# ? Jul 10, 2020 16:46

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Justices (and really, people in general!) are never actually as one-dimensional as we like to think.

# ? Jul 10, 2020 16:49

Hoshi: Jan 20, 2013

terrorist ambulance posted:

Gorsuch appears to somewhat genuinely believe in textualism, rather than understand that it's a pretext to be used flexibly to clothe and conceal the otherwise naked political preferences in your judicial decisions. And it takes his reasoning to odd places, because textualism is an odd doctrine.

It kind of rules that they have been pushing this poo poo so long they actually got a guy who believes in it and is now doing wacky poo poo like cancelling jurisdiction in half of Oklahoma

I forget who is was but someone said that decades ago smart repubes started pushing batshit to disguise their agenda and gin up support with crazies and it worked, but now they're aging out and the people replacing them are the crazies who bought into it

# ? Jul 10, 2020 16:50

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

blarzgh posted:

Justices (and really, people in general!) are never actually as one-dimensional as we like to think.

Thomas

# ? Jul 10, 2020 16:56

Pook Good Mook: Aug 6, 2013; ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Whitlam posted:

So this McGirt v. Oklahoma decision seems like a pretty big deal. Was anyone kind of expecting it to go that was, or was this a shock decision? I get the vibe that it's more of a shock, but also it's 2020 hell world, anything goes.

I remember someone mentioning how panicked the State's arguments were when this was up for argument and that person commenting that just the fact that the Supreme Court took it was an extremely bad sign for Oklahoma. I think the shock was that the Court actually frigin did it, everyone seemed kinda resigned that the outcome was "just," but unworkable.

Also, I have to give credit to Gorsuch for sticking to his guns. He's 100% right, even if the outcome is chaos.

And Alito is by far the worst, laziest, most self-serving Justice. At least the other Conservatives surprise you once in a while. You can ALWAYS predict where Alito is going to fall.

Pook Good Mook fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jul 10, 2020

# ? Jul 10, 2020 17:42

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

TheWordOfTheDayIs posted:

As a lawgoon and someone who hates Trump, I am delightfully entertained.

As an attorney for the State of Oklahoma, I am dreading what this likely means for the future of enforcing environmental regulations. I hope I'm wrong.

Gorsuch's "C'mon guys it won't be that bad, don't' be so pessimistic" stuff at the end of his opinion honestly pissed me off. He might be right, but it came across as pretty callous given the legal and political difficulties we already deal with.

Hopefully some smart people in the AGs office already made those plans and already coordinated with their counterparts with the Tribes and that stuff's already included as part of the (I expect) concurrent jurisdiction agreement.

Unless those people are the same people who wrote Oklahoma's brief - then it will be wholly the OkAGs fault, not Gorsuch's.

Whitlam posted:

So this McGirt v. Oklahoma decision seems like a pretty big deal. Was anyone kind of expecting it to go that was, or was this a shock decision? I get the vibe that it's more of a shock, but also it's 2020 hell world, anything goes.

People who read the 10th Circuit's decision in Murphy knew what the law says. The only question was whether SCOTUS was going to say 'gently caress the law, ipse dixit' becasue the law had been ignored for so long and boohoohoo, 'too hard to obey the law now' or not.

joat mon fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jul 10, 2020

# ? Jul 10, 2020 17:47

TheWordOfTheDayIs: Nov 9, 2009; Blessed with an unmatched sense of direction

joat mon posted:

Hopefully some smart people in the AGs office already made those plans and already coordinated with their counterparts with the Tribes and that stuff's already included as part of the (I expect) concurrent jurisdiction agreement.

their what now?

# ? Jul 10, 2020 17:59

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

TheWordOfTheDayIs posted:

their what now?

But I get what you're saying. If so, that's on them.

e: Did the OkAG seriously not have a plan for what do do if McGirt was reversed/Murphy was affirmed?

ee: Isn't most of the toothy environmental stuff in OK Federal, anyway?

joat mon fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jul 10, 2020

# ? Jul 10, 2020 18:15

Eminent Domain: Sep 23, 2007

joat mon posted:

But I get what you're saying. If so, that's on them.

e: Did the OkAG seriously not have a plan for what do do if McGirt was reversed/Murphy was affirmed?

You know the answer in your heart.

# ? Jul 10, 2020 18:45

Look Sir Droids: Jan 27, 2015; The tracks go off in this direction.

Pook Good Mook posted:

And Alito is by far the worst, laziest, most self-serving Justice. At least the other Conservatives surprise you once in a while. You can ALWAYS predict where Alito is going to fall.

Trying to recall when Thomas has surprised me.

# ? Jul 10, 2020 18:45

TheWordOfTheDayIs: Nov 9, 2009; Blessed with an unmatched sense of direction

joat mon posted:

But I get what you're saying. If so, that's on them.

e: Did the OkAG seriously not have a plan for what do do if McGirt was reversed/Murphy was affirmed?

I don't work for the OkAG's office, but I have heard nothing about any plans they have. I doubt they would have coordinated with the tribes, as those communications would have been used to contradict the state's legal arguments before SCOTUS.

# ? Jul 10, 2020 18:49

ulmont: Sep 15, 2010; IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

terrorist ambulance posted:

I mean dude sucks but in a different way than Kavanaugh who is just an awfulness golem from head to toe

...still better than Alito.

# ? Jul 10, 2020 18:49

TheWordOfTheDayIs: Nov 9, 2009; Blessed with an unmatched sense of direction

joat mon posted:

ee: Isn't most of the toothy environmental stuff in OK Federal, anyway?

Maybe the most toothy, but not the most commonly used. For mining and oil and gas, the state requires some liability bonds that are pretty important to make sure things get cleaned up when the company goes belly-up. Tribes in Oklahoma in the past have failed to require such bonds, with predictable results.

Private civil lawsuits based on common law play a large role in holding bad actors accountable in Oklahoma. Those types of lawsuits rely on the jurisdiction of state courts.

The right of state employees to enter onto private property to inspect relies on the jurisdiction of state law.

Protection of groundwater in Oklahoma is almost entirely state law. Oklahoma recently settled jurisdictional claims to groundwater with the Choctaw and Chickasaw in Southeastern OK, so at least there's that.

Regulation of stream water use (taking water out and using it, not discharge into it) is also almost entirely state law. Again, not a problem with Choctaws and Chickasaws.

Just some things that worry me.

# ? Jul 10, 2020 19:02

TheMadMilkman: Dec 10, 2007

Look Sir Droids posted:

Trying to recall when Thomas has surprised me.

That one time he spoke was pretty surprising.

# ? Jul 10, 2020 19:09

Pook Good Mook: Aug 6, 2013; ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

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TheMadMilkman posted:

That one time he spoke was pretty surprising.

He'll occasionally be surprisingly good on criminal procedure stuff

# ? Jul 10, 2020 19:19

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

TheWordOfTheDayIs posted:

Just some things that worry me.

Thanks for making me smarter!

# ? Jul 10, 2020 19:36

Nonexistence: Jan 6, 2014

You can have a lengthy discussion on worst justice but I mean, really, Alito wins most one dimensional by a landslide. Thomas may be disengaged and frequently predictable in where he lands, but still less so than Alito and his dissents and concurrences are anything but flat and thinly veiled justifications for a foregone partisan decision.

# ? Jul 10, 2020 20:40

Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

TheWordOfTheDayIs posted:

Maybe the most toothy, but not the most commonly used. For mining and oil and gas, the state requires some liability bonds that are pretty important to make sure things get cleaned up when the company goes belly-up. Tribes in Oklahoma in the past have failed to require such bonds, with predictable results.

Private civil lawsuits based on common law play a large role in holding bad actors accountable in Oklahoma. Those types of lawsuits rely on the jurisdiction of state courts.

The right of state employees to enter onto private property to inspect relies on the jurisdiction of state law.

Protection of groundwater in Oklahoma is almost entirely state law. Oklahoma recently settled jurisdictional claims to groundwater with the Choctaw and Chickasaw in Southeastern OK, so at least there's that.

Regulation of stream water use (taking water out and using it, not discharge into it) is also almost entirely state law. Again, not a problem with Choctaws and Chickasaws.

Just some things that worry me.

There's definitely a lot of concerns that arise from tribal sovereignty. In CA in particular, tribal workers at, e.g., tribal casinos enjoy much reduced labor and employment protections and are therefore easier to exploit.

Of course, the tribal authorities can (and probably should) simply adopt much of the existing state law (even just copying and pasting the language, as states frequently do with one another anyway) to the extent that it is aligned with their own interests. If anything, I imagine the tribes would prefer stricter environmental and land-use rules, it's likely a matter of getting things up and running. It's also my understanding that the tribes can choose to cooperate with/allow state enforcement of rules to some extent, but I'm not sure exactly how that functions in practice. I believe the Creek tribe in particular released a statement about that.

Vox Nihili fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jul 10, 2020

# ? Jul 10, 2020 23:35

Sab0921: Aug 2, 2004; This for my justices slingin' thangs, rib breakin' kings / Truck, necklace, robe, gavel and things / For the solicitors seein' them dissents spin and grin / That robe with the lace trim that win.

If you are an auto admit poster, you should probably delete your poo poo.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/media/tucker-carlson-writer-blake-neff/index.html

# ? Jul 11, 2020 00:13

Pook Good Mook: Aug 6, 2013; ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Vox Nihili posted:

There's definitely a lot of concerns that arise from tribal sovereignty. In CA in particular, tribal workers at, e.g., tribal casinos enjoy much reduced labor and employment protections and are therefore easier to exploit.

Of course, the tribal authorities can (and probably should) simply adopt much of the existing state law (even just copying and pasting the language, as states frequently do with one another anyway) to the extent that it is aligned with their own interests. If anything, I imagine the tribes would prefer stricter environmental and land-use rules, it's likely a matter of getting things up and running. It's also my understanding that the tribes can choose to cooperate with/allow state enforcement of rules to some extent, but I'm not sure exactly how that functions in practice. I believe the Creek tribe in particular released a statement about that.

Any idea if Congress is going to act and officially shrink the reservation like they tried to do 100 years ago?

# ? Jul 11, 2020 00:32

gret: Dec 12, 2005; goggle-eyed freak

Sab0921 posted:

If you are an auto admit poster, you should probably delete your poo poo.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/media/tucker-carlson-writer-blake-neff/index.html

LOL that board's gotten so many people into trouble over the years.

# ? Jul 11, 2020 00:39

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Pook Good Mook posted:

Any idea if Congress is going to act and officially shrink the reservation like they tried to do 100 years ago?

My bet is that the tribes will consent to concurrent jurisdiction. The only way I see Congress getting involved is if the tribes stand by sitting on their thumbs while Tulsa turns into a bloodbath.

# ? Jul 11, 2020 00:40

tau: Mar 20, 2003; Sigillum Universitatis Kansiensis

Is this where we ask for discord invites?

# ? Jul 11, 2020 06:23

EwokEntourage: Jun 10, 2008; BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Only if you can post The Emails.

# ? Jul 11, 2020 06:37

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

Sab0921 posted:

If you are an auto admit poster, you should probably delete your poo poo.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/media/tucker-carlson-writer-blake-neff/index.html

lol how did I not realize immediately that the website was autoadmit

# ? Jul 11, 2020 13:12

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

tau posted:

Is this where we ask for discord invites?

Yes.

# ? Jul 11, 2020 13:57

Sab0921: Aug 2, 2004; This for my justices slingin' thangs, rib breakin' kings / Truck, necklace, robe, gavel and things / For the solicitors seein' them dissents spin and grin / That robe with the lace trim that win.

Soothing Vapors posted:

lol how did I not realize immediately that the website was autoadmit

The original post said auto admit in it. We need to talk about your attention to detail. Clients aren't paying us top dollar for sloppy posting. You need to seriously take a look at whether this type of high level posting is suited for your talents.

# ? Jul 11, 2020 16:59

Gobbeldygook: May 13, 2009; Hates Native American people and tries to justify their genocides.

Put this racist on ignore immediately!

https://twitter.com/annamerlan/status/1281977296224571395?s=19
Smashing a synagogues beehives and threatening to sue them if it isn't cleaned up ASAP is next level lawyering.

# ? Jul 11, 2020 19:25

Look Sir Droids: Jan 27, 2015; The tracks go off in this direction.

What pieces of poo poo. I hate lawyers.

# ? Jul 11, 2020 19:39

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; bone shaking.
soul baking.

Look Sir Droids posted:

What pieces of poo poo. I hate lawyers.

# ? Jul 11, 2020 19:39

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Gobbeldygook posted:

https://twitter.com/annamerlan/status/1281977296224571395?s=19
Smashing a synagogues beehives and threatening to sue them if it isn't cleaned up ASAP is next level lawyering.

Confirming, once again, that PI lawyers are the loving worst.

Most lawyers are too loving sick of lawyerin' to do it for themselves in their free time. They need a loving hobby.

nm fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 11, 2020

# ? Jul 11, 2020 20:02

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 10:38

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

Sab0921 posted:

The original post said auto admit in it. We need to talk about your attention to detail. Clients aren't paying us top dollar for sloppy posting. You need to seriously take a look at whether this type of high level posting is suited for your talents.

B b b but....... the S comes before the Z *unbuckles yr pants*

# ? Jul 11, 2020 20:16

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Law Megathread: the stunner off the top rope that everyone but the defense saw coming

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