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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:since roughly the year 2000 nissan routinely makes one of the least good vehicles in its segment, whatever that segment may be, but the big secret is that most people don't really cross shop Don't forget the simple fact that Nissan Motor Credit will write a car loan for your pet turtle. Nissan is a financial services company that happens to sell mediocre cars.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:13
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The Koreans have tightened up a little bit so someone has to write the new $5K neggy eggy roll in to a new $30K CUV for the guy with a 520
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Jul 10, 2020 18:28
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Hey folks! My wife and I are looking at getting a new car, finally, instead of a used one. I am a real bad negotiator and know it, so I want to have some idea of how bad I'm getting screwed over before I go into it. We're looking at a Hyundai Tucson SE, which seems to be in a sweet spot of price/reliability/warranty for us. Financing will be through our credit union, not the dealership. They are advertising it for $22,935 and also have some promotion of $2,500 for a crappy trade-in (which adequately describes my 2007 Caravan with 120k miles, broken power doors, broken AC, with an engine that's burning oil, a battery that isn't holding a charge well, and has a check engine light for some valve I don't want to fix.  ) This Tucson has been used as a maintenance loaner, so it has 3,000 miles on it - and while we'd still be the first owners of record, I definitely think it's worth considering. Also new vehicle sales have been crap due to covid19, and we're not too far from 2021 models, and we're effectively paying cash, so my hunch is I'll have room to bargain - but I just don't know how low I can get to. Thanks, all.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:30
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Right now average transaction prices for an AWD tucson are at $23,5 so you are gonna save a whopping six hundred bucks in return for 3,000 miles of idiots driving your car. If it's not AWD you are getting absolutely hosed, I am assuming it's AWD because if it's not that sales guy would literally pay you cash out of his own pocket to take this deal. You do not get room to bargain through cash because everyone loves finance due to kickbacks. Even if you can pay cash you should consider financing or at least tell the dealer you are open to it because you are likely to get a better deal. edit: to answer one of your generic questions, I usually use Edmunds for my price research, but their website has gotten kind of lovely over the years. Lots of places will give you transaction price estimates based on sales data for specific geographies and trims. it's not foolproof but you should at least be in the ballpark. KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jul 10, 2020 |
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Jul 10, 2020 19:03
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Right now average transaction prices for an AWD tucson are at $23,5 so you are gonna save a whopping six hundred bucks in return for 3,000 miles of idiots driving your car. So it sounds like I've got some room to insist on a much lower price. Good. dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Jul 10, 2020 |
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Jul 10, 2020 19:09
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I've had decent success telling the dealership "I have credit union financing at x% for y months already, but I'm willing to fill out an app with you guys if it makes sense for me". It'll be another hard pull on your credit, but depending on how much they lower the price, it might be worth it.
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Jul 10, 2020 19:15
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That seems like a pretty poo poo price for a car with a $23.5k MSRP and 3000 rental miles already on it. "Paying cash" is not the negotiation tool it used to be and can actually hurt you in some cases. Manufacturer-subsidized financing can be a big savings in itself since your credit union probably can't offer loans that would cost it money. In some cases there can even be incentives on top of the financing. The Tucson seems perfectly competent but I'd have a hard time picking it over a CR-V or a CX-5. The latter two are going to be a good deal nicer to drive with ~30hp over the Tucson, and they'll use less fuel than the Tucson at the same time. Warranty is very much a "nice to have" but to some extent they're overvalued - a car that never needs to go in for anything but regular maintenance is a lot nicer.
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Jul 10, 2020 19:17
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Santa Fe was ruled out due to the lousy mileage. I think the Nissan Rogue is leading the pack right now for her. Question about the Prius with ~150k miles that I linked - how important is it for it to have had a battery change already? She did some research of her own and apparently came to the conclusion that if it hasn't, she won't consider it.
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Jul 10, 2020 19:18
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saintonan posted:I've had decent success telling the dealership "I have credit union financing at x% for y months already, but I'm willing to fill out an app with you guys if it makes sense for me". It'll be another hard pull on your credit, but depending on how much they lower the price, it might be worth it. IOwnCalculus posted:That seems like a pretty poo poo price for a car with a $23.5k MSRP and 3000 rental miles already on it. And yeah we are also looking at CR-Vs but the Hyundai is more in our budget sweet spot.
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Jul 10, 2020 19:36
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IOwnCalculus posted:Warranty is very much a "nice to have" but to some extent they're overvalued - a car that never needs to go in for anything but regular maintenance is a lot nicer. My mom told me that when the warranty on her (new, never had a problem) CR-V runs out, she's thinking about selling it for a Kia so she doesn't have to worry about it. 
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Jul 10, 2020 19:39
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dwarf74 posted:Thanks - yeah that's the kind of thing I need to know. If you don't like negotiating in person, you can always find every dealership you would concievably drive to and look on their website and see if they have the same or almost same car. If you e-mail them (from a burner account because they will all spam you into oblivion) and see if they'll match offer the price of the first dealership (or a lower one that is reasonable) you can quickly get an idea where the price should be at. Unless it is a rare care or like a Subaru in the PNW, everyone will go below the price they have on their website.
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Jul 10, 2020 19:58
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Cascadia Pirate posted:If you don't like negotiating in person, you can always find every dealership you would concievably drive to and look on their website and see if they have the same or almost same car. And I'm not opposed to a car with 3k miles on it by default, but if I can get 20.5 for test drive miles, the local place needs to do a lot better for a car with 3k miles. It's what I needed to know before going in, so thanks, thread. I feel better about my position.
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Jul 10, 2020 20:09
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Nissans are fine reliability wise, until the CVT nukes the bed 30 miles past the expiration of the powertrain warranty. Not rebuildable, so you're spending 5k on your car that's worth about as much.
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Jul 10, 2020 22:12
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A Prius will function fine with a degraded HV battery. It will eventually stop functioning if the battery fails. This is not guaranteed to happen and there are plenty of Priuses with 300k+ and no battery replacement. A replacement unit costs around a thousand bucks and installation costs around a thousand bucks. Unfortunately there is not a great way to test battery health on a car as far as I am aware.
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Jul 10, 2020 22:42
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Update: We did not buy a car. Thanks anyway, thread!
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Jul 11, 2020 00:12
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e: nvm
corgski fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jul 11, 2020 |
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Jul 11, 2020 22:10
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Proposed Budget: Under 50k I guess? Less is better. New or Used: Either. Expected Usage: Daily commute, mostly highway, ~20-25k miles / year. Not a large person, 95% of the time it's 1 person in the car, sometimes 2, almost never more. Currently Driving: '03 Mercury Grand Marquis w/~175k miles on it. My fourth summer without air conditioning. Other than fuel costs and the A/C, it's fine. Important Aspects: Low total cost of ownership over the next ~7 years (or more) while being "reasonably comfortable" as I spend 2.5 hours / day in the thing. In the Midwest where snow is a thing. Backup camera is a strong want-to-have and a bunch of modern-day safety features seem like good things but I don't know enough about them. Timeframe: Probably before next summer, maybe sooner, maybe later. From reading the past 20 pages of the thread, sounds like I'll probably want a Mazda3, Prius, or maybe Corolla? Any particular model years or trim levels that stand out?
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Jul 12, 2020 03:53
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CubicalSucrose posted:Proposed Budget: Under 50k I guess? Less is better. For Toyota, anything 2017+ will have the safety stuff as standard features. Adaptive cruise control will change your life. We rented a 2018 Camry for our annual road trip a couple years ago, and driving 12 hours a day with the adaptive cruise control took less mental energy than driving 8 hours without it. Shine fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Jul 12, 2020 |
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Jul 12, 2020 05:17
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CubicalSucrose posted:Proposed Budget: Under 50k I guess? What country are you in?
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Jul 12, 2020 05:20
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CubicalSucrose posted:Proposed Budget: Under 50k I guess? Less is better. What's really your budget? Unless you just finished up an advanced degree, or are a high earner who is generally oblivious to things outside of their work and their family, it is hard to imagine how you're going from a Grand Marquis with no air conditioning to being able to spend $50K on a car. For 25K highway miles a year, you're gonna want something large with a long wheelbase for a better highway ride, and something quiet. This means the compact cars recommended here (Mazda 3, Prius) won't work for you. If you can find a Cadillac CT6 with Super Cruise, you should get that. Super Cruise is Cadillac's answer to Tesla's Autopilot. It only works on highways, performs about as well as Autopilot while having safeguards in place to make sure you don't watch Harry Potter when driving. If a CT6 has Super Cruise, it will have a display in the steering wheel like this example:  As CT6s with Super Cruise can be hard to find, my next suggestion is the nicest Lexus LS460 you can buy. The LS460 will be like your Grand Marquis, but actually good, and extremely reliable. LS460s in great condition can be had for under $30K now, and the early LS460s can be had for $10-$15K.
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Jul 12, 2020 13:38
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I'd rather go for the Lexus ES. It's still comfortable, still quiet, and has good advanced features. It will be cheaper to operate over the same time period than the LS. You can also either stick some money in your pocket, or you can buy a lower mileage car and keep it for longer. Fuel and (probably) insurance will be less as well.
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Jul 12, 2020 15:55
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Yeah I struggled with the budget number. I am a high earner generally oblivious to cars. Historical purchases have been "last car broke down need a new one immediately" and I haven't really given any thought upfront. Less cost is obviously better, but I didn't want to unnecessarily rule out anything that would cost a bunch to buy but negligible to maintain, or have some "wow" gizmos that I might be comfortable spending a ton on (never heard of Super Cruise for example). ES Hybrid is looking pretty promising right now. If there's something like that but a tier lower (Camry Hybrid?), it would great to compare what I'm actually getting in terms of marginal comfort.
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Jul 12, 2020 17:54
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The ES Hybrid is actually really a Toyota Avalon Hybrid these days, so you might want to check that out. The Avalon is bigger and more comfortable and better appointed than the Camry. Edit: a lot more of what you would be buying is subjective rather than objective in terms of its value to you, so you should test drive both and find out through rear end-in-seat time rather than trying to compare spec sheets. KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jul 12, 2020 |
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Jul 12, 2020 18:00
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The Avalon isn’t a great seller because the price differential between it and a similarly equipped ES is so small as to make little difference.
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Jul 12, 2020 18:09
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I might be tempted just to avoid that goofy infotainment interface that Lexus likes to use, but the Avalon might have it as well and I don't care enough to find out.
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Jul 12, 2020 18:10
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Toyota technology packages are loving weird as gently caress. Like every Corolla enterprise has carplay and blind spot monitoring, etc. 4 runner? gently caress you. . . Even the second to the top of the line prius doesn't have blindspot monitoring. Also, I think the LWB for comfort thing is a bit overrated when we're talking about modern cars in the prius size. The prius wheelbase is 106in, which is a few inches shorter than a camry (111) or whatever. However, the prius is actually longer than the 1992 Camry (103in) I had, which was one of the best highway cruisers I had. Modern suspension combined with fairly decent tires (priuses actually still have sidewalls) can be pretty comfortable. They still handle like absolute rear end. The newest ones are far better than the gen2 for comfort, etc.
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Jul 12, 2020 18:47
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Weird question but Honda Sensing became standard on what, the 2016 models? It's weird looking at the used market and going from "This Lexus had a CD Player!  " to "this economic Honda has blind spot monitoring, auto-lane assist, speed-distanced cruise control, parking sensors..."
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Jul 12, 2020 18:50
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The ES Hybrid is actually really a Toyota Avalon Hybrid these days, so you might want to check that out. The Avalon is bigger and more comfortable and better appointed than the Camry. One suggestion on top of this: CubicalSucrose, make sure you start at the "lower end" with a Prius or Camry, and move up when you start test driving. Any new car is going to feel like a luxury space shuttle coming from an early 2000s Grand Marquis with blown AC. Starting at the lower end of the market will help anchor your expectations to the stuff that every new car has (or should have), and it'll be easier to evaluate the top-end fancy features on their own merits.
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Jul 12, 2020 18:51
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FilthyImp posted:Weird question but Honda Sensing became standard on what, the 2016 models? I wanna say 2017 or 2018. It was an option in my folks' CR-V, which, I think, is a 2017. But, it was a really cheap option, basically coming on everything not at the bottom trim level.
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Jul 12, 2020 19:36
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My 2017 Accord EX-L didn’t have it, but almost all the Civics that year did. I think Honda put it in almost everything in 2018 when the new generation of Accord came out.
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Jul 12, 2020 20:48
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nm posted:Toyota technology packages are loving weird as gently caress. It's in part driven by the car platform and technology within the car platform. The 4Runner (LC Prado) platform wasn't set up to include any of that poo poo, and they did a pretty big revision to it for MY 2019, so now that stuff is available on certain trim levels.
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Jul 12, 2020 21:27
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Loan Dusty Road posted:What country are you in? He's in the US, mentioned the Midwest.
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Jul 14, 2020 14:36
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Thanks all so far. Test drove a Prius (godawful rear visibility), Camry Hybrid (fine), and Avalon Hybrid (now this is what I'm talking about). Will be pressing forward evaluating a few used Avalons and ESs. Dynamic radar cruise control is the coolest thing in the world.
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Jul 14, 2020 18:59
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CubicalSucrose posted:Thanks all so far. Test drove a Prius (godawful rear visibility), Camry Hybrid (fine), and Avalon Hybrid (now this is what I'm talking about). Will be pressing forward evaluating a few used Avalons and ESs. Dynamic radar cruise control is the coolest thing in the world. as a side note, since cr-v and accord hybrids are pretty common, does anyone have any experience with their overall noise levels? i saw that the current ones have active noise cancellation.
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Jul 14, 2020 19:59
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I'm looking at buying a 2019 or 2020 Ram 1500. Mostly for camping, hauling a small boat, small home improvement projects, and skiing if that opens up in the winter. Only leased Audi sedans previously, so first time buyer and first time truck owner. I'm open to new or a year or two old with low milage if I can find a good one. I'm tempted by a new V8 Laramie level II package for the nice interior, etc ($55kish).. but also tempted to go entry level Laramie used ($40kish) so I can pay it off quick and get a summer/commuter car in a couple years. Any options must have? Diesel or Gas? Things to be aware of/stay away from?
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Jul 14, 2020 20:57
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KaiserKarl posted:I'm looking at buying a 2019 or 2020 Ram 1500. Mostly for camping, hauling a small boat, small home improvement projects, and skiing if that opens up in the winter. Only leased Audi sedans previously, so first time buyer and first time truck owner. I'm open to new or a year or two old with low milage if I can find a good one. I'm tempted by a new V8 Laramie level II package for the nice interior, etc ($55kish).. but also tempted to go entry level Laramie used ($40kish) so I can pay it off quick and get a summer/commuter car in a couple years. The Ram 1500 is the best American luxury vehicle you can buy, but unfortunately it is built by Fiat Chrysler. Fiat Chrysler cannot figure out how to reliably build a vehicle until it's 6-7 years into production. The Ram 1500 has had major teething issues, which FCA has acknowledged themselves in investor calls. For more evidence, go look at the Edmunds owner reviews for the new Ram. Even Edmunds's own long-term Ram has had a visor fall off. Reliability will still matter even if your vehicle's under warranty, because it means you get to drive a base Dodge Charger while your luxo-truck is in the shop again. If your heart is set on a Ram, lease it. Avoid the diesel. While the 3.0 V6 diesel is mostly redesigned according to VM Motori, I wouldn't touch it for a few years based on the track record of the last-gen EcoDiesel. The last-gen EcoDiesel was exactly as unreliable as you would expect an Italian diesel that was meant to go into a Cadillac passenger car would be. Also FCA had to do some emissions cheating to get it past US regulators, and owners have sworn that the update to make it emissions-complaint ruined their trucks. The Silverado and Sierra have the best powertrains, but you will hate the interior coming from a long line of Audis. The F-150 has better materials quality though it's still very Ford instead of Lincoln.
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Jul 14, 2020 21:31
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The Silverado and Sierra powertrains are decent but you will hate everything else about the rest of the truck. edit the dude owned Audis, I'm sure the FCA maintenance and repair experience would be familiar.
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Jul 14, 2020 22:37
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Godzilla07 posted:For more evidence, go look at the Edmunds owner reviews for the new Ram. Even Edmunds's own long-term Ram has had a visor fall off. quote:Santa Monica Ram couldn't see us for more than a week. So we called the second-closest shop to our office, Nissani Bros Ram in Culver City, who saw us the next morning. Aside from an attempted $170 upsell for a brake fluid flush, the service writer ordered the work that we requested: an oil change, oil filter, engine air filter, cabin air filter, and tire rotation. It cost $250... Halfway back to the office, the brake warning light came on. These fucks: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-05-29/column-car-dealer-under-investigation
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Jul 14, 2020 22:58
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That's not really a product quality problem, though.
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Jul 14, 2020 23:01
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:That's not really a product quality problem, though. No, I just thought it was interesting. The loving visor falling off in less than a year is a quality problem though.
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Jul 14, 2020 23:03
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