Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
McGavin
Sep 18, 2012


The article was written by a right-wing Christian *spits* so it doesn't count.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Squalid
Nov 4, 2008

taken from that coda story:

quote:

In mid-June, President Donald Trump signed into law a bill to sanction China for its treatment of Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang. The new legislation was introduced shortly after leaked extracts from a new book by former National Security Adviser John Bolton alleged that Trump told President Xi that he should “go ahead” with the construction of prison camps in the province.

jesus christ. this is a new low even for Trump. Not that I should be surprised Trump supports putting Muslims in camps, but for him to go so far as to just say it directly. . .

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

I've got a pocket full of cheese🧀, and a garden full of trees🌴.

Squalid posted:

taken from that coda story:


jesus christ. this is a new low even for Trump. Not that I should be surprised Trump supports putting Muslims in camps, but for him to go so far as to just say it directly. . .

I am not defending America, nor trying to minimize the evil of the CCP death camps.

But Trump has a long history of saying whatever he thinks will impress the smartest/most important man, (and it is sadly always a man. He doesn't do this with Merkel or Adern), in the room. He thinks this will endear them to him, so they can say he's a good boy who deserves a cookie. He doesn't say it because he means it, and he sure as gently caress doesn't remember saying it, or is above blatantly lieing to deny it later when it comes out. So when the insecure bald motherfucker was talking to Uncle Xi, he was most likely just agreeing with everything the bloke said.

This is not to say that the racist moron doesn't believe in and approve of cultural genocide, just that even in the non zero possibility that he does, it wasn't the reason he was fellating Xinnie the Pooh.

WarpedNaba
Feb 8, 2012

Being social makes me swell!
For the love of god, people better vote him out in this election or I swear I'll... ineffectually die a little more inside.

Shumagorath
Jun 6, 2001

BrigadierSensible posted:

I am not defending America, nor trying to minimize the evil of the CCP death camps.

But Trump has a long history of saying whatever he thinks will impress the smartest/most important man, (and it is sadly always a man. He doesn't do this with Merkel or Adern), in the room. He thinks this will endear them to him, so they can say he's a good boy who deserves a cookie. He doesn't say it because he means it, and he sure as gently caress doesn't remember saying it, or is above blatantly lieing to deny it later when it comes out. So when the insecure bald motherfucker was talking to Uncle Xi, he was most likely just agreeing with everything the bloke said.

This is not to say that the racist moron doesn't believe in and approve of cultural genocide, just that even in the non zero possibility that he does, it wasn't the reason he was fellating Xinnie the Pooh.

If you view Trump as someone who never got enough attention from dad and continues to seek it to this day, things make a tiny bit more sense.

Tupperwarez
Apr 4, 2004

"phphphphphphpht"? this is what you're going with?

you sure?

Shumagorath posted:

If you view Trump as someone who never got enough attention from dad and continues to seek it to this day, things make a tiny bit more sense.
The two-part episode The Dollop did about him is a solid cataloging of the many ways Fred Trump broke Donald's brain and filled it with racist brainworms.

MyronMulch
Nov 12, 2006

Dont Touch ME posted:

As an American who would be drafted and killed in a major conflict:
I hope Donald Trump makes Winnie the Pooh jokes on Twitter and recognizes the ROC as the legitimate China when he gets re-elected. The gargantuan loss of face dwarfs the negative consequences, including the possibility of nuclear war.

I would wager serious money that Donald Trump does not know the difference between Taiwan and Thailand, so would not hold my breath about ROC recognition.

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

Shumagorath posted:

If you view Trump as someone who never got enough attention from dad and continues to seek it to this day, things make a tiny bit more sense.

Doubly so for Don Jr



snergle
Aug 3, 2013

A kind little mouse!
does anyone have the gun powder meme where on one side its just china saying west? and on the other it keeps escalating from guns to tank to jets etc

Horatius Bonar
Sep 8, 2011

MyronMulch posted:

I would wager serious money that Donald Trump does not know the difference between Taiwan and Thailand, so would not hold my breath about ROC recognition.

That actually makes it more likely accidentally. See: congratulatory phone call to Tsai.

WarpedNaba
Feb 8, 2012

Being social makes me swell!

snergle posted:

does anyone have the gun powder meme where on one side its just china saying west? and on the other it keeps escalating from guns to tank to jets etc

I know the one you're talking about, but no.

Blistex
Oct 30, 2003

Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler
Found it.

url
Apr 23, 2007

internet gnuru

"taiwannews posted:


English is actually Chinese, scholars claim
World Civilization Research Association academics also believe all European history before 15th century is fake

By Zin Kao, Taiwan News, Staff Writer
2019/08/31 10:38

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) – “World Civilization Research Association” (世界文明研究促進會) scholars are claiming that Western civilization originates from China and all European languages are merely Mandarin dialects, the Liberty Times reports.

World Civilization Research Association Vice President and Secretary-General Zhai Guiyun (翟桂鋆) said during an interview with Sina Online that some English words derive from Mandarin. For example, “yellow” resembles Mandarin for “leaf falling” (葉落, yeluo) because it is the color of autumn, while “heart” resembles “core” (核的, hede).

Zhai concluded this “proves” English is, in fact, a “dialect” of Mandarin. He further claimed that after Chinese formed the English language, Russian, French, German, and other European-based languages, went through a similar process of sinicization.

The World Civilization Research Association group of scholars are professors from a number of Chinese academic institutions. Association member Zhu Xuanshi (諸玄識) further claimed that Western civilization is a “sub-civilization” of Chinese culture.

He said Europeans “felt ashamed” due to the “fact” there was no history in Europe before the 15th century, compared to China. In an attempt to paper over this historical humiliation, the Europeans “fabricated” stories about ancient Egyptian, Greek, and Roman civilizations – all based on Chinese history.

World Civilization Research Association founder Du Gangjian (杜鋼建) said the organization has set up branches in the U.S., Canada, U.K., Thailand, South Korea, and Madagascar to “restore” the truth of world history. “Do not let fake, Western-centered history hinder the great Sino-Renaissance,” he was quoted as saying.

Many Chinese citizens were unconvinced, however, with some mocking the association members by calling them “Wolf Warrior Scholars” – which references a patriotic Chinese movie. “Thanks, we can no longer laugh at the Koreans who claimed Confucius and Genghis Khan are Korean,” one commenter sardonically lamented.

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->
poo poo, Zhai Guiyun is onto us

url
Apr 23, 2007

internet gnuru
also:

quote:

taiwannews

Recognizing Taiwan's independence harshest punishment for CCP: US lawmaker
Top Foreign Affairs Committee Republican says China’s biggest fear not US but inability to control its people

By Ching-Tse Cheng, Taiwan News, Staff Writer
2020/07/11 12:17

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) — The ranking Republican in the U.S. House Foreign Affairs Committee, Michael McCaul, said he believes recognizing Taiwan as a sovereign, independent country would be the harshest punishment that the U.S. could inflict on Beijing.

In an interview with VOA earlier this week, the Texas representative expressed his belief that the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) ideology is destined to fail. Stressing that the U.S. is not Beijing's top enemy, he said Chinese citizens who had been indoctrinated or oppressed by the authoritarian regime would someday see the truth and stand up against their ruler and that this would be the party's biggest fear: being unable to control its people.

McCaul pointed out that the U.S. has no desire to engage in a military conflict with the CCP but that it will not hesitate to condemn human rights violations and support democracy. He also urged Chinese citizens to try to understand that their voices and basic rights have been taken away.

When asked about the American stance on cross-strait issues, McCaul emphasized that Washington would not allow Beijing's crackdown on Hong Kong to be repeated in Taiwan. He noted the CCP had intensified its threats toward Taiwan recently, with some on the Chinese side claiming Hong Kong's national security law is a blueprint for the island nation.

McCaul said the U.S. has continued its arms sales to Taiwan and that it would not abandon support for its East Asian ally. He added that diplomatically recognizing Taiwan would be a huge decision, but one that would hurt the CCP severely.

Meanwhile, the U.S. lawmaker also condemned Beijing's continual attempts to conceal information about the coronavirus pandemic, which has wrought devastation worldwide. He said both the CCP and World Health Organization (WHO) should be blamed for the worsening crisis because of their decision to ignore early professional warnings, reported Liberty Times.

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

I knew it! It was the Ecuadorian shrimp all along!

quote:

“They found one positive non-contagious test ‘inside the wall of the container’ as a result of 227,934 samples taken from the containers, that is 0.0000043%,” Santa Priscila President and founder Santiago Salem said in a statement.

McGavin fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Jul 11, 2020

WarpedNaba
Feb 8, 2012

Being social makes me swell!

Take out the last paragraph and I wouldn't be able to tell it apart from AR48's posting history.

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*




A few years ago in Finland there was a minor academic scandal when a doctoral student of non-Finnish origin wrote a dissertation on imported words in the Finnish language. A decent enough topic, as we do have a lot of imported and then localized words. However, the dude clearly had NO idea what he was talking about, because it was all gibberish on the level of ”pronssi is a combination of pro and ounce, referring to professional smiths who aspired to produce an ounce of pronssi in a single go” (pronssi is just what you get when the Swedish word for bronze, brons, is adapted to fit Finnish pronounciation over time). He just fundamentally didn’t understand any Finnish, muche less Finnish etymology, and naively assumed Finnish must have borrowed words from English.

The scandal was that for some reason his dissertation examiners had approved the dissertation and given the guy permission to defend it, but when other peers read it they protested hard enough for the university to reject the defence and decline the doctorate, when normally after you’ve cleared examination the defence is a mere formality. The guy sued, claiming racism IIRC, and the dissertation was approved with the lowest possible score.

Congrats, Chinese researchers. You are on the level of this charlatan now.

Devils Affricate
Jan 22, 2010
China may have won this round but let us not forget that Korea is the undefeated champion of the Alphabet Olympics

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

I've got a pocket full of cheese🧀, and a garden full of trees🌴.


Serious question re stupid language study:

Who takes this sort of gibberish seriously? Do proper academic sources take this seriously? Anywhere outside of China?

I ask this because in India there are often ideas such as "Ganesha is proof that inter-species body transplants were real, and invented in India", and "There are stories of big explosions in the Mahabrata, therefore the ancient Indians invented nuclear weapons before everyone else in the world. India number one!" are spoken in parliament to sage nods of agreement. But no scientific study, or academic institution takes it in any way seriously. They just don't dare to contradict the priests/politicians.

So I would imagine it is the same in China. But knowing the CCP, I wouldn't doubt that they would commission a university to make these dumbarse statements, and bribe/bully a foreign institute to support them.

BrigadierSensible fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Jul 11, 2020

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



BrigadierSensible posted:

Serious question re stupid language study:

Who takes this sort of gibberish seriously? Do proper academic sources take this seriously? Anywhere outside of China?

In actual real academia? Pretty much nobody*. Even a Master's student in linguistics would probably be able to shoot down this "study" immediately, and with cited sources in a few hours. In Computer Science it's become pretty much an everyday thing for some Chinese think tank to publish a revolutionary new method for doing something that is supposedly 100 times better than the current way, but the theory is so shoddy it doesn't stand up to even casual scrutiny and of course there is never any practical application because surprisingly you can't just make up imaginary bullshit and have it work. We're talking "instead of having cars with 120 horsepower engines. If you were to somehow build 900 horsepower engines that run on three AAA batteries at a fraction of the manufacturing cost instead you would revolutionize the automobile industry" levels of bullshit.

So why do it? Well, for one, in academia publishing is life. You need to publish constantly to qualify for grants, positions, tenure tracks etc. And there are endless conferences and publications, so you can shop your shoddy work around until you find someone to publish it. Because this is an entirely Chinese organization and publication, and working with Chinese academic "standards", it'll be some JUFO level 0 publication with zero credibility in the field, which means nobody will ever bother to read the actual study, much less shoot it down.

Beyond that, it's propaganda. Chinese papers can publish it, as will sites hungry for clicks. "All European languages are derived from Mandarin, Chinese study reveals".

* really nobody, but I am hedging my bets because let's be honest, the standards in academia aren't as high as they used to be, so I'm sure somewhere out there some tankie academic is way into this poo poo.

Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Jul 11, 2020

The junk collector
Aug 10, 2005
Hey do you want that motherboard?

Der Shovel posted:

The scandal was that for some reason his dissertation examiners had approved the dissertation and given the guy permission to defend it, but when other peers read it they protested hard enough for the university to reject the defence and decline the doctorate, when normally after you’ve cleared examination the defence is a mere formality. The guy sued, claiming racism IIRC, and the dissertation was approved with the lowest possible score.

It honestly wouldn't be the first time I saw someone get cleared just because they couldn't think of another way to get rid of them.


Der Shovel posted:

In actual real academia? Pretty much nobody*. Even a Master's student in linguistics would probably be able to shoot down this "study" immediately, and with cited sources in a few hours. In Computer Science it's become pretty much an everyday thing for some Chinese think tank to publish a revolutionary new method for doing something that is supposedly 100 times better than the current way, but the theory is so shoddy it doesn't stand up to even casual scrutiny and of course there is never any practical application because surprisingly you can't just make up imaginary bullshit and have it work. We're talking "instead of having cars with 120 horsepower engines. If you were to somehow build 900 horsepower engines that run on three AAA batteries at a fraction of the manufacturing cost instead you would revolutionize the automobile industry" levels of bullshit.

So why do it? Well, for one, in academia publishing is life. You need to publish constantly to qualify for grants, positions, tenure tracks etc. And there are endless conferences and publications, so you can shop your shoddy work around until you find someone to publish it. Because this is an entirely Chinese organization and publication, and working with Chinese academic "standards", it'll be some JUFO level 0 publication with zero credibility in the field, which means nobody will ever bother to read the actual study, much less shoot it down.

Beyond that, it's propaganda. Chinese papers can publish it, as will sites hungry for clicks. "All European languages are derived from Mandarin, Chinese study reveals".

* really nobody, but I am hedging my bets because let's be honest, the standards in academia aren't as high as they used to be, so I'm sure somewhere out there some tankie academic is way into this poo poo.

China produces an absolutely insane number of publications and the vast majority of it is trash even in some of the more respectable journals. It's like they somehow inherited all the bad parts of western academic institutions and then turned it up to 11 before adding their own brand of problems on top. It's sad because there is some genuinely good work they publish as well, but all the cruft just makes anything good hard to find.

A4R8
Feb 28, 2020

WarpedNaba posted:

Take out the last paragraph and I wouldn't be able to tell it apart from AR48's posting history.

I do not see the resemblance to my critiques of China’s current racial capitalism, comrade.

Tupperwarez
Apr 4, 2004

"phphphphphphpht"? this is what you're going with?

you sure?

The junk collector posted:

It's like they somehow inherited copied all the bad parts of western academic institutions and then turned it up to 11 before adding their own brand of problems on top.
modern_china.txt

Sheep
Jul 24, 2003

The junk collector posted:

China produces an absolutely insane number of publications and the vast majority of it is trash even in some of the more respectable journals. It's like they somehow inherited all the bad parts of western academic institutions and then turned it up to 11 before adding their own brand of problems on top. It's sad because there is some genuinely good work they publish as well, but all the cruft just makes anything good hard to find.

I know first hand of several journals that de facto don't accept papers from researchers at Chinese institutions anymore. One of the things that is also pissing editors off is the "mass authorship" phenomenon where they just add everyone they know as coauthors in order to gain face. Some journals have rules where each author has to describe what they contributed to the article in question to combat this.

Adding your cat as a coauthor as a joke is one thing but China is kind of taking the piss when there are like fifteen coauthors on some garbage paper.

Sheep fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jul 11, 2020

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Its also a great way to say “I am distinguished professor X, having published 300+ papers in peer-reviewed* journals”

*the review consists of “here is my paper, please rubber stamp it”

There are a ton of junk journals and publishers in many technical fields that exist for this reason. When I was in grad school you’d get emails from random publishers that just sprang out of nowhere asking you to write a book chapter for a book they were cobbling together from anyone willing to write. Because publications are important, people end up doing it, especially if they can’t get published elsewhere. Then the book is published online, where no one will read it, and it exists solely to pad your CV publications list.

No one takes any of it seriously though. Academics know what the primo journals in their field are, and are mostly capable of critically evaluating papers that come from those.

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->
But China will soon publish the most papers in the world, meaning that they will then have the most science, and consequently be able to fill out the tech tree faster than anyone else

Dont Touch ME
Apr 1, 2018

I'm going to start my own scientific journal and publish Markov-chain generated papers just to cock-block.

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

Dont Touch ME posted:

I'm going to start my own scientific journal and publish Markov-chain generated papers just to cock-block.

someone beat you to it

Austen Tassletine
Nov 5, 2010

Fojar38 posted:

But China will soon publish the most papers in the world, meaning that they will then have the most science, and consequently be able to fill out the tech tree faster than anyone else

At least then they won't be able to send spies to steal more advanced tech anymore.

strange feelings re Daisy
Aug 2, 2000

Fojar38 posted:

Tsinghua Professor Xu Zhangrun was recently detained by the Chinese government for his outspoken criticism of Xi Jinping

The reason why is his latest essay that was published in February, "When Fury Overcomes Fear."

There is a translation available at this link and I suggest everyone read it, if simply to appreciate the burns that he lays down practically every other sentence

https://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/viewpoint/viral-alarm-when-fury-overcomes-fear
His criticisms on internal party rot and career bureaucracy are fine but I disagree with point 8. There he describes a Chinese populace that is fed up and has reached a breaking point. That's very contrary to what I've observed.

This recently completed independent study from Harvard supports the idea that party support is linked to material conditions.
https://ash.harvard.edu/files/ash/files/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf

Post-COVID the material conditions and satisfaction are obviously worse, but I don't believe they're bad enough to endanger the party. I think the Chinese economy would have to tank badly for consecutive years to cause a legitimacy crisis among the natives.

strange feelings re Daisy fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Jul 12, 2020

hakimashou
Jul 15, 2002
Upset Trowel

strange feelings re Daisy posted:

His criticisms on internal party rot and career bureaucracy are fine but I disagree with point 8. There he describes a Chinese populace that is fed up and has reached a breaking point. That's very contrary to what I've observed.

This recently completed independent study from Harvard supports the idea that party support is linked to material conditions.
https://ash.harvard.edu/files/ash/files/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf

Post-COVID the material conditions and satisfaction are obviously worse, but I don't believe they're bad enough to endanger the party. I think the Chinese economy would have to tank badly for consecutive years to cause a legitimacy crisis among the natives.

Precisely why the policy we need is "no trade without reform."

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020

hakimashou posted:

Precisely why the policy we need is "no trade without reform."

Who is "we"? US? You know the trade war has been fought for the entire year of last year right? Trade policy is no longer an effective tool America (or any country) has leverage over China.

Post Covid, the Chinese GDP will catch up to US even faster, just look at the world bank/IMF/etc prejections.

hakimashou
Jul 15, 2002
Upset Trowel

stephenthinkpad posted:

Who is "we"? US? You know the trade war has been fought for the entire year of last year right? Trade policy is no longer an effective tool America (or any country) has leverage over China.

Post Covid, the Chinese GDP will catch up to US even faster, just look at the world bank/IMF/etc prejections.

Lol

GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

*Stupid Babby*

stephenthinkpad posted:

Who is "we"? US? You know the trade war has been fought for the entire year of last year right? Trade policy is no longer an effective tool America (or any country) has leverage over China.

Post Covid, the Chinese GDP will catch up to US even faster, just look at the world bank/IMF/etc prejections.

https://youtu.be/OTSQozWP-rM

Blistex
Oct 30, 2003

Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

That's exactly how it works. :irony:

Shumagorath
Jun 6, 2001
gently caress I clicked that in a non-private browser, there go my Youtube recommendations for another month.

The Great Autismo!
Mar 3, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Fojar38 posted:

Tsinghua Professor Xu Zhangrun was recently detained by the Chinese government for his outspoken criticism of Xi Jinping

The reason why is his latest essay that was published in February, "When Fury Overcomes Fear."

There is a translation available at this link and I suggest everyone read it, if simply to appreciate the burns that he lays down practically every other sentence

https://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/viewpoint/viral-alarm-when-fury-overcomes-fear

“the ranting and raving of a white sexpat loser who is jealous more Chinese girls won’t have sex with him and he is being cucked by Chinese men” -CSPAM

The Great Autismo!
Mar 3, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

stephenthinkpad posted:

Who is "we"? US? You know the trade war has been fought for the entire year of last year right? Trade policy is no longer an effective tool America (or any country) has leverage over China.

Post Covid, the Chinese GDP will catch up to US even faster, just look at the world bank/IMF/etc prejections.

truly the west can only salivate with jealousy

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

vanity slug
Jul 20, 2010

The Great Autismo! posted:

“the ranting and raving of a white sexpat loser who is jealous more Chinese girls won’t have sex with him and he is being cucked by Chinese men” -CSPAM

don't sign your posts

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply