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dyzzy posted:They're not wrong about crystal cloak though, gently caress that boss I’ve never lost a run to cloak, but I think that’s because I always rely on a tank in the front row to soak up hits. That said, 8 turns and ~90dmg worth of free attacks is pretty crappy. I think he’d be better balanced if he started with 2 or 3, but got another 2 or 3 each floor to allow multi floor defense strats
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Jul 10, 2020 20:43
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Just wait until the patch in beta right now goes live and there's daily challenges with double status effects giving him 16 rounds of stealth. OTOH, the beta branch is fun as gently caress right now and I love what they're adding despite the nerfs to some of my favorite cards. I've already won runs on the backs of the harvest unit buffs and buffs to other little-used units and the community challenges list with leaderboards has been fun.
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Jul 10, 2020 23:56
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I got to Covenant 1 with a win off Stygian/Wildwood, and wanted to do Hellhorned/Wildwood next since it's the first combination. What are you supposed to do to make that actually good? I've been at it for hours and it feels like any synergy between them is very reluctant kinds.
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Jul 12, 2020 07:54
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Justin_Brett posted:I got to Covenant 1 with a win off Stygian/Wildwood, and wanted to do Hellhorned/Wildwood next since it's the first combination. What are you supposed to do to make that actually good? I've been at it for hours and it feels like any synergy between them is very reluctant kinds. Take the multistrike champion and park him behind a Thornhollow. All heals go to the Hollow to generate a ludicrous spike barrier while all rage/attack buffs go on the champion. That single floor can pretty much annihilate all challengers.
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Jul 12, 2020 08:23
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Liking the changes to Wax. Burnout champ nerfs were needed, buffs to Harvest champ & changes to Reform champ feel pretty good. Dripfall feels so much better at 1 mana (especially as a starting card) and makes party floor very viable, even with the daze.
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Jul 12, 2020 09:40
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Justin_Brett posted:I got to Covenant 1 with a win off Stygian/Wildwood, and wanted to do Hellhorned/Wildwood next since it's the first combination. What are you supposed to do to make that actually good? I've been at it for hours and it feels like any synergy between them is very reluctant kinds. The generic hellhorned strategy is to use Hidden Passage (and Tiring Climb in a pinch) to assemble a single "clown car" floor, ideally with something tanky at the front. Because you don't have to worry about capacity you can abuse things like demon fiends and largestones (along with the multistrike stone, which is a pro-pick on most hellhorned units/comps) to output high damage on a lot of units. Hellhorned can tank by having sufficiently beefy units or by stacking armor, but as Justin said Awoken has some of the best tanks/tank mechanics in the game in terms of thorned hollow and regen stacking, which can kill seraph by itself. This run was pretty goofy (a lot of strong relics and an early cloning event), but it shows what an idealized clown car might look like: 
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Jul 12, 2020 10:54
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Does anyone have really consistent strategies that are pretty quick? I've been queuing hellhorned+umbral and running morsel guy who spawns 2 every turn+hellhorned champ with slay/multistrike+lifesteal gorge guy (or damage shield if you don't get lifesteal) on floor2 usually and it has a crazy win rate at lower covenants. There are a number of ways to develop the deck around those core cards, and it helps if you reset your starting cards a few times to get some that aren't awful. Just wondering what else is out there. It's also weird how little information there is about the game out there. Microcline posted:The generic hellhorned strategy is to use Hidden Passage (and Tiring Climb in a pinch) to assemble a single "clown car" floor, ideally with something tanky at the front. Because you don't have to worry about capacity you can abuse things like demon fiends and largestones (along with the multistrike stone, which is a pro-pick on most hellhorned units/comps) to output high damage on a lot of units. Hellhorned can tank by having sufficiently beefy units or by stacking armor, but as Justin said Awoken has some of the best tanks/tank mechanics in the game in terms of thorned hollow and regen stacking, which can kill seraph by itself. Khorne fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jul 13, 2020 |
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Jul 13, 2020 01:32
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I just beat cov3 abusing an overgorger, who had 317 damage output per turn by the end. That was also my first time using the Rejuv Sentient, which worked okay.
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Jul 13, 2020 02:04
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Holy moly. This was my first time trying out Legion of Wax. Melting Remnant is such a ridiculous engine archetype. Memento Mori frequentliy hit for over 400 - pretty good value at 1 cost. I never even got to abuse Memories of the Melted. I had Mine Collapse as an X card, but it was often more valuable as a +2 pyre health per turn.   Definitely looking forward to the next time I hit that combo.
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Jul 13, 2020 06:12
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I picked this up over the weekend, just finished unlocking all the clans. I've been enjoying most of the combinations I've tried so far, but can't really figure out how to make the Umbra work. I sort of get what their primary 'engine' is supposed to be, but it feels like they're too slow and too RNG-heavy compared to all the other clans, and filling the car with Morsels takes up valuable space. The one synergy that works for me is leveraging Morsel deaths with Melting Remnant, and apparently that's not even intended and is going to be nerfed.
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Jul 13, 2020 07:50
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I find remnant/umbra or umbra/remnant i focus too much on building a broken engine and not enough on actually winning a game so die to some dumb normal fight
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Jul 13, 2020 10:12
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Inadequately posted:I picked this up over the weekend, just finished unlocking all the clans. I've been enjoying most of the combinations I've tried so far, but can't really figure out how to make the Umbra work. I sort of get what their primary 'engine' is supposed to be, but it feels like they're too slow and too RNG-heavy compared to all the other clans, and filling the car with Morsels takes up valuable space. The one synergy that works for me is leveraging Morsel deaths with Melting Remnant, and apparently that's not even intended and is going to be nerfed. Most of my Umbra games use a crucible collector as the carry that beats Seraph, as with 30+ attack and 31+ life every morsel fed is one free turn. I usually find architect to be the strongest Penumbra build, as it's effectively 100 free damage on your strongest row without taking up valuable space/morsels. In most cases I end up with only one space on a row for morsels but use a morsel cloning mechanism like Morselmaster (acceptable) or Shroud Mitosis (hands down the strongest morsel-creating card) to break the capacity limit. If you set up a DPS row above (or a row for feeding something like an overgorger) you can use a cave in (ideally permafrosted) to create an incredibly strong boss-killing floor. Umbra is somewhat unusual in that whereas most clans are entirely self-sufficient (e.g. Awoken has The Sentient and hollows for frontline tanking and animus for backline DPS) Umbra's mechanics mean that it usually provides the front line (and core boss/seraph strategy) while the allied clan fills in the back with whatever is missing.
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Jul 13, 2020 13:59
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Microcline posted:Most of my Umbra games use a crucible collector as the carry that beats Seraph, as with 30+ attack and 31+ life every morsel fed is one free turn. I usually find architect to be the strongest Penumbra build, as it's effectively 100 free damage on your strongest row without taking up valuable space/morsels. In most cases I end up with only one space on a row for morsels but use a morsel cloning mechanism like Morselmaster (acceptable) or Shroud Mitosis (hands down the strongest morsel-creating card) to break the capacity limit. If you set up a DPS row above (or a row for feeding something like an overgorger) you can use a cave in (ideally permafrosted) to create an incredibly strong boss-killing floor. Another thing that I’ve discovered about Umbra is that morsels can often do better as throw away blocks - especially if you get that artifact that gives them a shield. Since the hardest hitters are usually up front, dumping a single morsel in front of your tank can usually save him more than you’ll buff his stats by.
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Jul 13, 2020 14:11
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I agree Umbra is weakest (haven't played melting yet, trying to get a win with every other combo). The most powerful things in the game are multi-attack and quick sweep and umbra needs furnace tap (which is an amazing card you should always pick) for the former and can't actually do the latter. They do have a totally silly boss beater that doesn't even need multi-attack though. But when I run umbra secondary it's basically just crucible collector, morselmaster, morselmaker on 3rd floor and ignore other umbra cards not named furnace tap. For the other factions: Hellhorn's main issue is their tanks' sustain isn't amazing. Railbeater is really good and can somewhat mitigate the need for quick sweep, and you can proactively protect your tanks with damage spells (vent has been very good for me). Awoken has everything, sweep, multi-attack, and sustain and buffs for the multi-attack unit. Spike sentient with enough sustain is just as good as quick sweep so all you need is a large spike lady and you're basically good. Stygian for whatever reason has the most amazing tank in the game and also has lots of sweeps. If you get quick on a sweep unit and a shark you are basically good. You have to lean into spell power or frostbite to kill bosses but they have so many cards that support those strategies. Having umbra as a secondary might actually be good here because then you don't have to worry about scaling your magic damage up to Seraph levels. No Wave fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jul 13, 2020 |
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Jul 13, 2020 14:23
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I think the two best champions are melting and stygian. Wax burnout champ is amazing and you can do holdover reform shenanigans, while all the stygian frostbite units are great and the champ may be the best boss killer. Plus those two have sap & stealth, the best status
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Jul 13, 2020 14:44
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Thanks for the advice earlier, managed to beat it with those two yesterday. I've only done one run with them but I think Melting/Umbra is my favorite mix, Flicker was an absolute monster the whole way through.
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Jul 13, 2020 15:06
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I haven’t really wrapped my head around wax crew yet
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Jul 13, 2020 15:21
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No Wave posted:I agree Umbra is weakest (haven't played melting yet, trying to get a win with every other combo). The most powerful things in the game are multi-attack and quick sweep and umbra needs furnace tap (which is an amazing card you should always pick) for the former and can't actually do the latter. Antumbra Assault, Excavation Eruption, Cave In, Prismal Dust, Shroud Spike are really good. Mine Collapse is good single target removal if upgraded with spell power (10 or 20) but not a high priority pick unless you really lack removal, the other guy like crucible collector who gets damage shield (and who gets more health next patch I think) is 80% as good as crucible collector and adds a whole lot of consistency because you'll probably get one or the other. Mostly listing these because it's important that some of the choices above have backup picks that are still pretty good. Certain other clans suffer from a lack of consistency while umbra feels really consistent but has blatant gaps in what it can do. There are a few niche cards beyond those. For example, Immortal Trade has outright won rounds for me, to the point I gave it frozen so I had it on the right boss round, but I wouldn't draft it most games. The 0 get 3 rare/uncommon morsel cards is good to have 1 of for lifesteal/damage shield guys, but I feel people often fall into a gimmicky morsel trap and draft too many then draft cards that are underwhelming like feast to make up for it. Consume is good for a similar reason but also to reposition things or junk certain imps/burning guys. Captain Foo posted:I haven’t really wrapped my head around wax crew yet Khorne fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jul 13, 2020 |
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Jul 13, 2020 16:26
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I was overstating it, they do have some generic usable support cards. The five you named are real cards I'll almost always pick. Morselmaker and morselmaster having such good stats is really surprising and why they're so good yeah. EDIT: Other random thing: Unit upgrades are by far the most cost efficient purchases in the game. You need to make use of them even if it's not the perfect upgrade, unit upgrade choices are one of the biggest determinants of run sucess. Morselmaster and Morselmaker are units that are amazing for this because they don't require must-have upgrades but having a 15/25 morselmaster will absolutely make a difference in the early game (while ensuring he's resilient to sweeps later on). No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jul 13, 2020 |
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Jul 13, 2020 16:32
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No Wave posted:I was overstating it, they do have some generic usable support cards. The five you named are real cards I'll almost always pick. Morselmaker and morselmaster having such good stats is really surprising and why they're so good yeah. Multistrike, quick, and sweep units also love cheap upgrades. Spell upgrades are similarly important and cost efficient. You can run some really awful units and leave them alone if you get the right spell upgrades. Khorne fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jul 13, 2020 |
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Jul 13, 2020 17:28
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lol I just won hellhorned/umbra on covenant 4 with the hellboi doing 780 damage on the final round
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Jul 14, 2020 00:25
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Got the Sans Seraph cheevo (kill Seraph before combat) out of nowhere on a ridiculous covenant 8 run. Deeplink Two Quick+Multistrike Shadowsiege getting dropped on the middle floor for free was still raw disgusting luck. Slap on Onehorn and Furnace Tap and then I just Cave In'd them into Seraph or vice-versa a couple times while ignoring the trash. Maker/Master/Monstrous up top was entirely irrelevant, lol.
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Jul 14, 2020 02:24
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22 minutes??? I remember you played spire similarly quickly but I'm still just dumbfounded.
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Jul 14, 2020 02:31
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This one might have been exceptionally fast because it was literally just dropping a Shadowsiege on whatever floor and mashing spacebar for a few turns. It's just a habit from playing on lunch breaks. Here was a C1 warmup earlier in the day though and I guess my highest scoring run in three weeks since I started playing.  Deeplink Same idea. Make a beefy card -> dupe it -> go fast. 200+ armor on hornyboi is what carried it though. Having the game show the math helps a ton too. Edit: I can't find the run with the Largestone+Endless+Minimized(? The one slot event upgrade) Legion of Wax. Infinite beef. Ranzear fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jul 14, 2020 |
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Jul 14, 2020 03:48
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No Wave posted:I agree Umbra is weakest (haven't played melting yet, trying to get a win with every other combo). The most powerful things in the game are multi-attack and quick sweep and umbra needs furnace tap (which is an amazing card you should always pick) for the former and can't actually do the latter. Umbra is the strongest by far. My first attempt at one of the challenges with a Umbra/Hell deck just ended with me 1 turning the Seraph Liizard fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jul 14, 2020 |
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Jul 14, 2020 04:30
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The nerfing of the Umbral/Waxer combo hurts as its no longer possible to get thousands of damage on your champion with some simple combos but theres still a number of artifacts that basically give you a guarenteed win with Umbra even on convenant 25 (this is what you could do with Memories of the Melted and Shroud Spike) The devour Seraph is the only real challenge to Umbra since they really shine when you have a small deck and abuse Holdover to the max Liizard fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jul 14, 2020 |
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Jul 14, 2020 04:35
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This is the easy/boring strat I've been doing. Admittedly, I haven't played many deckbuilding games outside of limited/arena in mtg/hearthstone. g1 deep link g2 deep link I played real awful, especially in g2, but so far I'm 5-0 with it. It seems ridiculously consistent at lower cov. I was explaining the game to a friend so slowed down game speed and took a long time. The second run actually kinda sucked. I made some critical mistakes but also kinda low rolled certain things or at least failed to use what was given to me well. Really enjoying this game and hope I can find time to grind out cov25 and then spam games. I'm currently queuing that until I lose. Ranzear posted:Here was a C1 warmup earlier in the day though and I guess my highest scoring run in three weeks since I started playing. Liizard posted:The nerfing of the Umbral/Waxer combo hurts as its no longer possible to get thousands of damage on your champion with some simple combos but theres still a number of artifacts that basically give you a guarenteed win with Umbra even on convenant 25 Khorne fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Jul 14, 2020 |
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Jul 14, 2020 05:05
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At cov25 at least MR feels like the worst allied clan (excluding the obvious umbra synergies) as everyone else's mechanics, even if they don't always combo, are at least useful while MR's mechanics are mostly siloed off to working with other MR cards.
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Jul 14, 2020 06:03
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Microcline posted:At cov25 at least MR feels like the worst allied clan (excluding the obvious umbra synergies) as everyone else's mechanics, even if they don't always combo, are at least useful while MR's mechanics are mostly siloed off to working with other MR cards. You can luck into some strong combos but its just not reliable to take them and hope you get the handful of cards/artifacts with any synergy
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Jul 14, 2020 06:35
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Khorne posted:I'm extremely jealous of your game times more than anything. Wish deep links had replays of rounds and maybe even in-between rounds. You wouldn't be jealous of my ~20% win rate though. I make a lot of dumb mistakes and wish the game had a simple undo button all the time. I lose fast too, like 6 minutes to Daedalus tops. I have the worst misclicks. I took +3 rage instead of demons have multistrike when running a largestone Deranged Brute behind my prince. Can't scum non-battle stuff best I can tell. I just want one goddamn Hellhorned/Stygian win.
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Jul 14, 2020 06:45
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I savescum for some of the more complicated fights. I had a bizarre one which involved recurring a legion of wax three times and learned that reform removes the reformed unit from the pool of dead cards. I think the actual fights in this game can be unbelievably complicated and skill-testing (when not savescumming) which is an odd combination for how zany and high variance the deckbuilding is. Like StS fights are a bit too hard for anyone to play completely optimally and monster train fights are 5x more complicated when you don't have sweep in your deck.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Jul 14, 2020 |
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Jul 14, 2020 07:49
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There are enough direct damage spells for sweep not to be necessary
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Jul 14, 2020 07:56
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Ranzear posted:I just want one goddamn Hellhorned/Stygian win.  DL C1 because I just wanted it marked done, lol. I should have a twitch vod of this one. Twitch vod. (Automatic forum embed is trying to do the channel, not the highlight?) The one hilarious misclick is taking Imp-olate by accident because I wanted that capacity so bad. I also never put a third upgrade in anything because I entirely forgot that was my second relic. Ranzear posted:Two Quick+Multistrike Shadowsiege getting dropped on the middle floor for free was still raw disgusting luck. Apparently this is the current WR strat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcJOEAN8HR0 Ranzear fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Jul 14, 2020 |
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Jul 14, 2020 08:08
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 With the changes in the beta branch, a Wrathful Hornbreaker Prince combined with a Deranged Brute is absolutely broken. I had 2 Multstrike Quick Demon Fiends on the last line and not a single enemy made it past my Prince to them.
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Jul 14, 2020 11:06
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Liizard posted:With the changes in the beta branch, a Wrathful Hornbreaker Prince combined with a Deranged Brute is absolutely broken. I'm not even on the beta branch. Seems it was kinda broken beforehand too. I thought to switch over, but it comes out in two days anyway.
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Jul 14, 2020 22:10
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Melted still makes no sense to me. They seem to have two things going for them, burnout rector and molded (ok stealth torch is good). Burnout Rector with five stacks of burnout and a holdover molded puts 2175 damage on seraph all by himself. It is ridiculous. If I don't get burnout I just lose sadly.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 01:29
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Ranzear posted:I'm not even on the beta branch. Seems it was kinda broken beforehand too. They nerfed it slightly today but its still obscene. I just realized Adaption Mutation also combos unbelievably well. It uses the attack value after rage for your new health but keeps the rage stacks so a 200 attack/25 hitpoint Prince becomes 200 attack/200 hitpoint afterward. The only downside is that you can't combo it with the newly nerfed Multistrike Tome
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Jul 15, 2020 01:50
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It's a fun card. Just don't be me and draft it in a game with a sapping seraph my entire scaling plan was to cast it on an hp-upgraded multistrike lady
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Jul 15, 2020 02:19
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Sweep and Emberdrain feel so lovely when enemy units have them. Basically threw away an amazing Stygian/Hellhorned run because I picked a trial and didn't notice one would be there.
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Jul 15, 2020 03:10
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No Wave posted:Melted still makes no sense to me. They seem to have two things going for them, burnout rector and molded (ok stealth torch is good). Burnout Rector with five stacks of burnout and a holdover molded puts 2175 damage on seraph all by himself. It is ridiculous. If I don't get burnout I just lose sadly. Don't let him burn out. Put a Lady of the Reformed in front of him so by the time she goes down he's got 20+ turns to wreck face. Notice her Burnout +1 is Revenge, meaning every time she gets hit, so throw health upgrades on her. She's really easy to overlook. Edit: Misinterpreted half your post, this is still relevant though. Ranzear fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 03:13
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