|
Select all squares with Huntington Ingalls Contract Money
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 14:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 07:07 |
|
|
Lou Takki posted:Lol the sheer quantity of destroyed electrical and electronic components in that portion of the ship is making me sweat a little bit lol Yuuup - I worked on the installation of the electronic charting system on the LHDs back when I was with NAVSEA (Like 7 years ago) - and basically all the expensive electronic bits burned down. Once I saw the pictures of the bridge on fire, it was a weird feeling of "Well there goes all the poo poo I installed...." (To be fair, our system was redundant and there should still be a 2nd rack and an intact RLG well below where the fire was - although I wouldn't be surprised if it's sitting in 4ft of water at this point.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 15:31
|
|
|
Some more pictures are coming out.   
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 15:53
|
|
|
I don't see how you recover from that. That ship's only use now is as a reef. Sink it a safe distance from shore.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 16:36
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:I don't see how you recover from that. That ship's only use now is as a reef. Sink it a safe distance from shore. Depends on how much money you want to throw at it. Forrestal bombed itself from the flight deck to the hull and it was considered structurally sound enough to repair. Since this damage was through the island as well it's going to be massively expensive but I don't know if it's unrecoverable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 16:48
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:I don't see how you recover from that. That ship's only use now is as a reef. Sink it a safe distance from shore. They would have to cut the top off as that steel is brittle and warped. It's doable, but effectively rebuilding the more complex part of the ship from scratch. It sounds idiotic to me, but we've done idiotic things before - like fixing the USS Port Royal - which ended up with a warped hull and literally would pull itself apart at sea after it was 'repaired', didn't sail straight and the shafts tore the hull apart as they were out of alignment. Stultus Maximus posted:Depends on how much money you want to throw at it. Forrestal bombed itself from the flight deck to the hull and it was considered structurally sound enough to repair. Since this damage was through the island as well it's going to be massively expensive but I don't know if it's unrecoverable. Forrestal bombed itself but only burned for 14 hours iirc and the damage was contained to a much smaller section. LHD 6 burned from the hangar bays up for 2 days and everything else below got flooded for 3 days... FileNotFound fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jul 14, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 16:55
|
|
|
It値l be repaired. How do I know this? Because it値l be lobbied through congress as some huge feat of patriotism and pride and some shipyard will end up with an infinite budget and timeline to fix it. It値l end up costing 3x what a new one costs, take forever, be a broke piece of poo poo and then promptly be decommissioned with the rest of its class. loving bet.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 17:00
|
|
|
Bob A Feet posted:It値l be repaired. How do I know this? Because it値l be lobbied through congress as some huge feat of patriotism and pride and some shipyard will end up with an infinite budget and timeline to fix it. It値l end up costing 3x what a new one costs, take forever, be a broke piece of poo poo and then promptly be decommissioned with the rest of its class. loving bet. That's literally what happened to the CG-73. Much like the LHD class it was a CG and the fate of the CGs as a whole was sealed...
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 17:01
|
|
|
Bob A Feet posted:It’ll be repaired. How do I know this? Because it’ll be lobbied through congress as some huge feat of patriotism and pride and some shipyard will end up with an infinite budget and timeline to fix it. It’ll end up costing 3x what a new one costs, take forever, be a broke piece of poo poo and then promptly be decommissioned with the rest of its class. loving bet. Lol this is the most likely answer hah. Twitter is full of Iranians claiming this is God's punishment for Trump's assassination of the Iranian General a few months ago.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 17:05
|
|
|
Belknap got run over by a carrier and literally burned to the main deck, and it came back.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 17:08
|
|
|
FileNotFound posted:They would have to cut the top off as that steel is brittle and warped. If the fire really did start from the lower V deck, they'd have to slice off way more than just the main deck and up. You'd have to gut the entire center of the ship.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 17:49
|
|
|
Bob A Feet posted:It’ll be repaired. How do I know this? Because it’ll be lobbied through congress as some huge feat of patriotism and pride and some shipyard will end up with an infinite budget and timeline to fix it. It’ll end up costing 3x what a new one costs, take forever, be a broke piece of poo poo and then promptly be decommissioned with the rest of its class. loving bet. BHR CMC: I want everyone in dress blues for admirals call at 0630. Admiral's call: We will repair her! By God it's our patriotic duty to the American people and the vigilant sailors who love this ship and want nothing more than to serve aboard her once more! Sailors: I hate everything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 18:17
|
|
|
The repair/scrap decision is going to revolve mostly around F-35 flight deck availability.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 18:32
|
|
|
They値l just change the certification requirements or waiver the old flight decks for the F-35. Short sighted? Extremely. But it値l get a few class desk officers through this tour so it痴 not their problem any more.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 18:45
|
|
|
Dumb question from someone in the AF: What happens to the hundreds of sailors stationed on that ship? Are they assigned to a ship like we are to a specific base? Does the navy have to scramble and find a few hundred open billets and move people around the country to a new ship? Do they just stay there and do bitch work on the shore for a few years?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 19:22
|
|
|
pkells posted:Dumb question from someone in the AF: What happens to the hundreds of sailors stationed on that ship? Are they assigned to a ship like we are to a specific base? Does the navy have to scramble and find a few hundred open billets and move people around the country to a new ship? Do they just stay there and do bitch work on the shore for a few years? It depends. Some folks like first tour JO's who need to get qualified, and enlisted guys with critical skills/ratings will most likely be reassigned immediately. The rest of the crew will wait until the decision to repair/scrap is made. If they keep the BHR then the crew will remain to do traditional work that a crew does while they're ship is in the yard. If they decide to scrap her, then a lot of the crew will be reassigned in the near term. A skeleton crew will remain attached to go through the requirements to decommission the ship and then be reassigned once the ship is stricken from the record and the command disestablished.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 19:30
|
|
|
God I hope they scrap her, there's nothing left to save. Just put the money you'd blow on rebuilding her into another 2 LHAs for fucks sake. The Navy is super political though, so they'll rebuild her and she will be a broke-rear end piece of poo poo that tears herself apart at any speed above 1/2, and she won't be able to handle any weather above glassy smooth without something leaking somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 19:50
|
|
|
While I don't disagree that she's totalled, I'm not going to be surprised if the Navy decides to repair her. The concern over F35 deck availability is real. This decision is going to come down cost to repair, expected remaining service life of BHR, and how long the repair will take vs cost and time of. expanding and accelerating the AMERICA class.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:07
|
|
|
orange juche posted:God I hope they scrap her, there's nothing left to save. Just put the money you'd blow on rebuilding her into another 2 LHAs for fucks sake. You're describing every LHD.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:08
|
|
|
loving LHAs have no surface capabilities though. It痴 like the Navy only asked the Air Wing what Marines need in an amphib and forgot that all of our doctrine revolves around the infantryman. Take an ARG out with an LHA and you need it, two LPDs and an LSD to replicate what could be done with an LHD, LPD, and LSD.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:10
|
|
|
ManMythLegend posted:While I don't disagree that she's totalled, I'm not going to be surprised if the Navy decides to repair her. Very good points, but my view on it is, she is structurally compromised to the point where you might be lucky to get 2/3 of the type's designed service life out of her hull, and as stated before upthread it's going to cost as much as building another 2 LHAs to cut the upper 2/3 of the ship off and rebuild it entirely, if that's even feasible. (most likely it will get to the part where they cut the 2/3 off and then realize that she's hosed, but they have an IDIQ style contract for the rebuild so they will get it done 3 years late and 300% over budget, and the Navy will have to cut costs either in personnel or in building new America class LHAs to balance the budget.) I'm probably wrong on the numbers, but whatever they do with her will be insanely over-budget beyond whatever they quote. orange juche fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jul 14, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:13
|
|
|
Hekk posted:loving LHAs have no surface capabilities though. It痴 like the Navy only asked the Air Wing what Marines need in an amphib and forgot that all of our doctrine revolves around the infantryman. Take an ARG out with an LHA and you need it, two LPDs and an LSD to replicate what could be done with an LHD, LPD, and LSD. I'm not a gator navy goon, all of the amphibs look the same to me except for the LPD which noticeably looks different on the horizon than the baby CVs that LHD/LHA are. orange juche fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jul 14, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:14
|
|
|
orange juche posted:Very good points, but my view on it is, she is structurally compromised to the point where you might be lucky to get 2/3 of the type's designed service life out of her hull, and as stated before upthread it's going to cost as much as building another 2 LHAs to cut the upper 2/3 of the ship off and rebuild it entirely, if that's even feasible. (most likely it will get to the part where they cut the 2/3 off and then realize that she's hosed, but they have an IDIQ style contract for the rebuild so they will get it done 3 years late and 300% over budget, and the Navy will have to cut costs either in personnel or in building new America class LHAs to balance the budget.) I don't disagree with you at all, but from the bean counter point of view on initial estimate it's a difference between hundreds of millions vs 5+ billion dollars. It's really going to come down to how fast AMERICAs can come off the line vs what is the realistic service life of a repaired BHR.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:20
|
|
|
Hekk posted:loving LHAs have no surface capabilities though. It’s like the Navy only asked the Air Wing what Marines need in an amphib and forgot that all of our doctrine revolves around the infantryman. Take an ARG out with an LHA and you need it, two LPDs and an LSD to replicate what could be done with an LHD, LPD, and LSD. That's what I'm wondering about. The Commandant has stated that he wants to shift the "Desert" Corps back to its Amphibious roots, and the loss of an LHD well deck super fucks with the ARG rotation. The America class just doesn't replace the Wasp class all that well until they actually start pumping out hulls without that godawful flight 0 design.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:21
|
|
|
What if we just got rid of the navy's army's air force
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:24
|
|
|
LHAs don't have a well deck? lol it's literally just a short aircraft carrier then, what the gently caress were they thinking? They don't bring any capability that a CVN doesn't bring better. I guess Bougainville is USS Makin Island Mk. 2, so they'll just be LHDs with the serial numbers filed off, and reinforced decking for F35B ops.
orange juche fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jul 14, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:29
|
|
|
Proud Christian Mom posted:What if we just got rid of the navy's army's air force We don't even have to get rid of them. They fly off of our supercarriers all the time. The question is why do we need additional mini carriers when we already have a shitload of supercarriers. Our amphib fleet is larger than I believe the entire rest of the world's aircraft carriers as it is.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:32
|
|
|
Proud Christian Mom posted:What if we just got rid of the navy's army's air force I start collecting my retirement check in December so I am fine with whatever.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:34
|
|
|
orange juche posted:LHAs don't have a well deck? lol it's literally just a short aircraft carrier then, what the gently caress were they thinking? They don't bring any capability that a CVN doesn't bring better. I guess Bougainville is USS Makin Island Mk. 2, so they'll just be LHDs with the serial numbers filed off, and reinforced decking for F35B ops. Well, they're weren't originally meant to. LHA -> Amphibious Helicopter Assault. They were supposed to be able to house an initial landing force which could be inserted purely by air without the need to pull a super carrier off it's fixed-wing/strike mission. (Also, CVNs can't house the Marines needed to man the landing force. LHAs can.) But, with the limited well deck space of LPDs, you really strain the surface transport mission of the ARG without an LHD.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:43
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:We don't even have to get rid of them. They fly off of our supercarriers all the time. Why? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs But seriously - this is pretty much why. Edit: As to if this makes any sense or is a good idea in the world of hypersonic missiles is a whole separate topic.... FileNotFound fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jul 14, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 20:46
|
|
|
AlternateNu posted:Well, they're weren't originally meant to. LHA -> Amphibious Helicopter Assault. They were supposed to be able to house an initial landing force which could be inserted purely by air without the need to pull a super carrier off it's fixed-wing/strike mission. (Also, CVNs can't house the Marines needed to man the landing force. LHAs can.) Yeah, in this case, the well deck issue is not the Navy's fault. The Marines changed their doctrine to focus almost exclusively on air insertion and so they wanted amphibs that traded well decks for enhanced air element support.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 21:13
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1283128264882610177?s=20 The Osprey can now kill international naval infantry
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 21:15
|
|
|
ManMythLegend posted:Yeah, in this case, the well deck issue is not the Navy's fault. The Marines changed their doctrine to focus almost exclusively on air insertion and so they wanted amphibs that traded well decks for enhanced air element support. And quickly backtracked as soon as the rest of the Marine Corps told them how difficult what you are describing is to do and how much capability they are giving up to accomplish it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 21:17
|
|
|
Nick Soapdish posted:https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1283128264882610177?s=20 But yo that paint scheme. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 21:54
|
|
|
Hekk posted:And quickly backtracked as soon as the rest of the Marine Corps told them how difficult what you are describing is to do and how much capability they are giving up to accomplish it. Totally. Unfortunately, it's easier and faster to change doctrine then it is to design and build ships to here we are.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 22:13
|
|
|
Hekk posted:And quickly backtracked as soon as the rest of the Marine Corps told them how difficult what you are describing is to do and how much capability they are giving up to accomplish it. Like, didn't they figure this out with the fleet of LPHs we had for decades and decided not to replace? Also, why isn't the America class called LPH?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 23:11
|
|
|
Stultus Maximus posted:Like, didn't they figure this out with the fleet of LPHs we had for decades and decided not to replace? The same reason the Hornet got stuck with "F/A-18"--marketing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2020 23:35
|
|
|
Stultus Maximus posted:Also, why isn't the America class called LPH? Pretty sure they're LHAs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 00:22
|
|
|
Stultus Maximus posted:Like, didn't they figure this out with the fleet of LPHs we had for decades and decided not to replace? Why does the Navy take the middle of words and make portmanteaus out of them (AmPHIBious SquadRON) instead of using initialisms or acronyms like the rest of the military?
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 00:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 07:07 |
|
|
Hekk posted:Why does the Navy take the middle of words and make portmanteaus out of them (AmPHIBious SquadRON) instead of using initialisms or acronyms like the rest of the military? PHIBRON 3 sounds better and is more easily understood than CPR-3.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2020 00:56
|
|