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Subvisual Haze posted:It was a pretty good half a story. I feel like moving forward the series would really benefit from killing off a lot of its side characters. So many cameos. I mean this book seems set up to absolutely off a lot of them. It gathered basically every major recurring character in the thick of things in Chicago when some serious poo poo is about to go down I feel like Odin probably bites it here at the very least, and probably McCoy and Listens-to-Wind. Sanya is also throwing up a lot of death flags along with Murphy though there's like no way Murphy doesn't come back as an Einherjar
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Jul 15, 2020 05:33
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Subvisual Haze posted:It was a pretty good half a story. I feel like moving forward the series would really benefit from killing off a lot of its side characters. So many cameos. Also, not exactly a complaint for how ancient beings outlast humans and complain about their short lifespans, it seems like there has been a lot of change in the last century or so, you have: 2 Dragons dying, red court genocide, denarians leaving the accords and Marcone/Forrest people joining the accords. Just seems like a lot of changes to existing lower structures before this book, and I wonder if that will ever come up.
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Jul 15, 2020 05:34
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Fritzler posted:Maybe. My biggest complaint (after half book) was how little time it spent on side characters. There are side characters that haven’t appeared in a few books, that showed up in this one with very little fanfare. I was shocked he never talked to Ivy. She got rid of her only other friend because of him, and it seems like they haven’t talked in at least five years, maybe more I mean the current accords aren't that old. They're only from the 1800s iirc and replaced earlier accords that had a different group besides the Winter Court enforcing them. And we have hints that this kind of stuff is pretty common overall. Like the Black Court was almost wiped out in the previous century, the fact there are 6000 prisoners in Demonreach etc and in general power seems to flow between factions pretty regularly. also Butcher is like spelling out that poo poo goes down every 666 years repeatedly in this book and we're running right up on that.
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Jul 15, 2020 05:38
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Zore posted:
Butcher's clearly taking that schedule from Revelation, but I decided to check on what happened 666 years ago. 1354 was a fairly quiet year, but 1353 was the end of the Black Death. So now I am wondering of he's going to be working that in now.
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Jul 15, 2020 05:49
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Read it, firmly in the "alright" catagory but miles away from good. Various poo poo:
There's more but I'm just working myself up now. Overall I don't hate it. But it is huge disappointment for me.
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Jul 15, 2020 05:53
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Gnoman posted:Butcher's clearly taking that schedule from Revelation, but I decided to check on what happened 666 years ago. 1354 was a fairly quiet year, but 1353 was the end of the Black Death. So now I am wondering of he's going to be working that in now. Remember its probably like 2014/5 in Peace Talks. Maybe earlier since several of the books happen only months apart and Peace Talks picks up super close to Skin Game
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Jul 15, 2020 05:54
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Fritzler posted:he never talked to Ivy. She got rid of her only other friend because of him, and it seems like they haven’t talked in at least five years, maybe more When did this happen? I was annoyed when he referenced The Blob twice in a few pages describing the same thing.
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Jul 15, 2020 05:58
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Beachcomber posted:When did this happen? He noticed that Kincaide wasn't hanging around Ivy at the party though I don't think that was Harry's doing. Kincaide, Billy and Georgia were just about the only major supporting characters who didn't show up at all in the book
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Jul 15, 2020 06:01
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I thought it was really loving good. Lots of good action and character development. Conjuritis seemed a little dumb but didn’t bother me. I was excited to see a threat of biblical proportions come in, but I can’t really reconcile the fact that the destruction of the Red Court was what triggered her reaching for power/the restoration of the old ways .I came here to post a hot take of Justine being not what she seems/evil in some way, but it seems I was beaten to the punch. Definitely something up with “can’t talk, only mumble”, and I could buy her being the Outsiders summoner.
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Jul 15, 2020 06:01
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Zore posted:
Kincaid, Billy, Georgia, Toot, Lea, Uriel, all of the Fallen, Eldest Gruff... There were a lot of players/allies that didn't show up. I really did expect Merlin or Gatekeeper to show up.
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Jul 15, 2020 06:10
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gerg_861 posted:Finally, Harry mentions that there is one being in the prison who is given a more lenient sentence than the rest. I assume that this foreshadows needing to let him out for help. Who will it be? My guess would be Merlin. I recall Butcher being on record saying that the irritated british guy was not Merlin. On another note, I like the theory that "Justine" is somehow working with the bad guys. Maybe when Thomas tried to say her name it wasn't asking to Harry to keep her safe, it was a warning. And we did just get shown that you can create an ectoplasmic dopplegangler of someone that even a wizard won't see through.... Zore posted:
It's from another short story, Ivy fires Kincaide because he killed Harry at the end of Changes.. Avalerion fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 06:20
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Kris xK posted:Kincaid, Billy, Georgia, Toot, Lea, Uriel, all of the Fallen, Eldest Gruff... There were a lot of players/allies that didn't show up. I really did expect Merlin or Gatekeeper to show up. Gatekeeper is being kept busy doing his job at the moment. This is Empire. Our plucky heroes are demoralized, but hopeful. Predictions: Murphy is finally going to pick up Amoracchius. Now that she and Dresden are now officially, forensically, in love she can wield the sword of love. This will keep her conveniently away so Harry can brood about it and keep finding women he wants to gently caress. Dresden will go with Yoda, to learn the ways of the force, once the current crisis ends. Molly's first name is Margaret! wtf?! This will totally have some kind of significance later. I'm thinking a triple goddess sort of thing. Molly gets promoted to Mab and the daughter of the Winter knight becomes the maiden. Mister is actually just a really great cat. Cats are awesome and good to pet. It's too early for Merlin to show up. Not expecting that until book 20 when the denarians free everything from Demonreach, kicking off the "Apocalyptic Trilogy".
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Jul 15, 2020 07:04
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Is there anywhere to read a good catch up before I read Peace Talks? I read the rest of them years ago
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Jul 15, 2020 07:11
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Zore posted:
No, Dresden gawked at Ivy's hips and made no mention of Kincaid per a spoiler upthread.
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Jul 15, 2020 10:00
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it’s pretty obvious the conjuritis thing is because Harry has been hanging around a magical child a lot. Parents pick up illnesses from their kids all the time.
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Jul 15, 2020 10:47
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Daric posted:it’s pretty obvious the conjuritis thing is because Harry has been hanging around a magical child a lot. Parents pick up illnesses from their kids all the time. I think we're going to get another frozen turkey moment.
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Jul 15, 2020 10:54
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Zore posted:I feel like Odin probably bites it here at the very least, and probably McCoy and Listens-to-Wind. Sanya is also throwing up a lot of death flags along with Murphy though there's like no way Murphy doesn't come back as an Einherjar post-battleground short story spoilers Odin is 100% safe. Kringle shows up in the post battlegrounds Christmas short. We also know that Micheal, Molly, Mab, Mouse and Maggie are all fine, but a lot of other people bite the dust. Masonity fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 10:55
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Masonity posted:Odin is 100% safe. Kringle shows up in the post battlegrounds Christmas short. We also know that Micheal, Molly, Mab, Mouse and Maggie are all fine, but a lot of other people bite the dust. I appreciate the spoilers, but having read the recent book, if we, as a thread, could signpost post-battle grounds spoilers, I think that would be really keen.
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Jul 15, 2020 11:18
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One thing that surprised me, I thought Harry would kind of come to see Bonnie as another daughter, but she barely factored or came up in his thoughs.
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Jul 15, 2020 11:20
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Beachcomber posted:I appreciate the spoilers, but having read the recent book, if we, as a thread, could signpost post-battle grounds spoilers, I think that would be really keen. Ugh my bad. Fixed.
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Jul 15, 2020 12:57
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biracial bear for uncut posted:No, Dresden gawked at Ivy's hips and made no mention of Kincaid per a spoiler upthread. Beachcomber posted:When did this happen? Somebody fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 12:59
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As someone who burned through all of Sanderson in the time between Skin Game and Peace Talks, I’m pissed it isn’t one big (for Butcher) book. I still really enjoyed it and I’ll be eagerly waiting for September. I agree with many of the posters here that Butcher is really beating you in the head with some foreshadowed stuff. And while I didn’t do a reread of the series prior to this, and maybe I’m tainted by this thread’s negative opinions, the male gaze stuff felt more annoying than I had noticed prior.
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Jul 15, 2020 13:21
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Peace talks seems like a step back after skin game. Considering the amount of time passed since skin game,continuity errors and the seemingly unnecessary horniness (yes we get it winter mantle) like the checking out of developing teen girls, some parts left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I did enjoy the book overall and I'm glad some of the side jobs characters were utilised when I wasn't expecting it and in such a fulfilling way. River Shoulders is my favourite character and the side bar at the meeting discussing the culture of the forest people was great. But that was another possible odd lore discrepancy Grendelkin have already been introduced as a separate species and with different breeding habits to the Forest People. unless they were a species that worked under Grendel and that partnership was so pervasive it game them a new name? But who know.
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Jul 15, 2020 13:35
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Butter's sword (with the very detailed explanation of its functions) certainly seems to be the biggest setup moving forward Since the sword doesn't do anything to mortals but is extremely effective against evil, presumably Butters or Harry will just stab Thomas with it to fix his vampirism
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Jul 15, 2020 13:41
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Wait, there's a short story out set after the next book? edit -- found it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pxLeRAWNPc86lY-h6cO75YbpkE8ShjHZ/view (google drive link from Butcher's blog) spoilers obviously Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 14:04
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Wait, there's a short story out set after the next book? Yeah, there was a special Christmas Eve short story that makes reference to "the events of the peace talks", and it definitively established a handful of characters that definitely survive
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Jul 15, 2020 14:06
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Ahhh just finished the book. It certainly was an extended prologue to the next book, but I didn't mind it as much? I enjoyed it on first read more than I did with Skin Game. It also felt like a more enjoyable 'table setting' book than Ghost Story and it had a lot of long overdue character beats. The book seems to payoff a bunch of sidestories from so that's nice/annoying if you haven't read Brief Cases. My biggest annoyance with the book is: With all that happened, absolutely no headway was made into why the gently caress Thomas did what he did, nor who was threatening Justine. I'm gonna be upset if ya'll right and she's the one that backstabs him. Re: Butcher writing Dresden being a goony goon: Not as bad (not as frequent?) as usual. The Ivy bit was bad but the Hope bit was baaad. The rest was tolerable teenage horniness I guess. Random thoughts: I agree with whoever said parties are fun and wish we had more scenes of Harry mingling. The conjuritis is a dumb gag and I find it funny. I don't mind it and ya'll theory about him catching it from Maggie is so much smarter than my dumb idea that "Harry is a newborn wizard again becuase he died and came back". I am looking forward to finding out more about whatever the dude contemplating in Demonreach. I sure hope we get a fun and satisfying payoff with Merlin and everything. I am intrigued as hell and will be super mad if it's lame. Is Bonea supposed to be a reference to something or is it just a dumb Bone pun? To take the Wizard Spiderman analogy further, doesn't it seem like Butcher is setting up for a Sinister Six type scenario by dropping Mavra and Genoskwa still being out there? I remain totally underwhelmed by the Fomor as well. They continue to be this supposedly terrible force but we've had all of two short stories and a ton of off-scene description only, and now they're immediately one-upped by someone pulling the strings. Subvisual Haze posted:Butter's sword (with the very detailed explanation of its functions) certainly seems to be the biggest setup moving forward Since the sword doesn't do anything to mortals but is extremely effective against evil, presumably Butters or Harry will just stab Thomas with it to fix his vampirism Ahhh brilliant Xtanstic fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 14:17
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Subvisual Haze posted:Butter's sword (with the very detailed explanation of its functions) certainly seems to be the biggest setup moving forward Since the sword doesn't do anything to mortals but is extremely effective against evil, presumably Butters or Harry will just stab Thomas with it to fix his vampirism Hahahaha oh man this may actually happen.
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Jul 15, 2020 14:23
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Subvisual Haze posted:Butter's sword (with the very detailed explanation of its functions) certainly seems to be the biggest setup moving forward Since the sword doesn't do anything to mortals but is extremely effective against evil, presumably Butters or Harry will just stab Thomas with it to fix his vampirism Alternatively, we’ve seen the sword fail to cut someone. What happens if it does cut someone that it shouldn’t? And how do the Swords feel about Outsiders?
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Jul 15, 2020 15:37
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My verdict so far (passing judgement on half a book is tricky): Solid, not great, not worth waiting six years for (even though it was unavoidable and Jim Butcher is not my performing slave and etc. and whatever) but a fun read. Some thoughts upon finishing: Some eye-rolly moments that have been well-covered but they're kind of background radiation at this point, so, much better than Skin Game in that regard. (I'm still annoyed about Lasciel being reduced to a WHY DON'T YOUUUUU LOOOOOOVEEEEE MEEEEEE caricature, goddammit.) I could also have done without a reminder every five pages that Lara Is Hot and the Winter Mantle Wants To Get Some, like, it's plot-relevant, sure, but less is more. The scenes with Harry and Murphy together were sweet, though. Far too many "let's create artificial tension through situations that could be resolved by a quick conversation" moments, particularly when "having conversations to resolve artificial tension is a good and wise thing to do" was arguably the goddamn point of the book. Aren't the Knights signatories to the Accords? Why weren't they at the party? For that matter, even though Nicodemus is diabolica non grata at the moment, did the Denarians as a whole get kicked out of the Accords? (They certainly deserved to.) Agreed with everyone else that Thomas was almost certainly not asking about Justine's safety all those times, and there's even an avenue now for Sarcastic British Prisoner to tell Harry so, since presumably he and Thomas will be able to communicate.
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Jul 15, 2020 16:59
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The Knights have no reason to sign any treaties. They follow one Law only. Signing anything else would only create potential conflicts. When you're an actual Lawful Good paladin, you're careful about making any extra promises. Heck, the Bible even prohibits swearing oaths.
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Jul 15, 2020 17:11
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docbeard posted:Far too many "let's create artificial tension through situations that could be resolved by a quick conversation" moments, particularly when "having conversations to resolve artificial tension is a good and wise thing to do" was arguably the goddamn point of the book. Infuriatingly so. I really hope Harry gets a chance to hash things out with all his Warden bros 
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Jul 15, 2020 17:16
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The Knights have no reason to sign any treaties. They follow one Law only. I mean, I'm from a religious tradition that doesn't even like using peoples' titles, so I get that much. I just thought I remembered they were part of the Accords from the previous books, though I may have just been assuming since Shiro was Harry's second in his duel with that Red Court dude back in Death Masks.
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Jul 15, 2020 17:18
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I just did a quick Google and in the dresden files rpg book it is apparently stated that the knights are not signatories.
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Jul 15, 2020 17:19
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The Knights have no reason to sign any treaties. They follow one Law only. That whole thing kinda became retro-actively dumb when Jim Butcher said that in the Dresden-verse that George Washington wielded Esperacchius during the Seven Years War during this clip at around the 44-minute mark.
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Jul 15, 2020 17:19
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If it ain't in the books it didn't happen #cowliszombiejustin (That's not a Peace Talks spoiler, just a joke)
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Jul 15, 2020 17:24
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One of Jim's greatest strengths is still crafting moment-to-moment emotional beats that land really well - the flashbacks to young Harry and his dad were really poignant
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Jul 15, 2020 17:34
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Lara is way too friendly and helpful in this one. Never trust the beautiful woman who is being unusually kind and helpful to a noir protagonist. Ebenezer and the wardens are probably right and Harry is at least partially under her influence.
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Jul 15, 2020 17:48
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I wouldn't say that she was particularly helpful on demonreach. In fact, she nearly funked everything up. Also, she needs Harry's help. And does genuinely love Thomas, and knows Harry does too. I'd say she's being so nice because they are clearly allies of convenience and on the same side here. Aren't Lara and Thomas also involved independently in the war against the outsiders too? While both her and Harry are ready to take the other out if need be, they share enough common goals that while she's a monster, she's our monster. And equally while Harry's a threat, he's her threat more often than not. No need for some sort of huge manipulation or control here. I think it's literally just that they have mutual allies and enemies right now. And generally tend to. I'm not entirely sure she will survive the next book though. If Justine is the badguy here we may find out when the knife appears in Lara's back.
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Jul 15, 2020 18:06
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Subvisual Haze posted:Lara is way too friendly and helpful in this one. Never trust the beautiful woman who is being unusually kind and helpful to a noir protagonist. Ebenezer and the wardens are probably right and Harry is at least partially under her influence. He can’t be, at least now that he and Murphy are in love.
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Jul 15, 2020 18:09
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