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Why wouldn't your just present the character as ostensibly overpowered but only performs at party level?
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Jul 15, 2020 16:44
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| # ? May 27, 2024 21:22 |
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Arivia posted:Yeah, and you don't need to be a failure goofball in-game to be that kind of character. One of my groups has an openly admitted disaster lesbian, we're both queer so we can lean into the archetype just fine, but she absolutely holds her own versus challenges in and out of combat. Absolutely, disaster queer is a stereotype more related to relationship choices and organizational habits, it's not a 1 to 1 transition to "I cast the wrong spells all the time." Wacky failure as a comic constant is just another way to reach for the spotlight, and one that isn't really mechanically supported by D&D.
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Jul 15, 2020 16:45
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theironjef posted:Absolutely, disaster queer is a stereotype more related to relationship choices and organizational habits, it's not a 1 to 1 transition to "I cast the wrong spells all the time." Wacky failure as a comic constant is just another way to reach for the spotlight, and one that isn't really mechanically supported by D&D. Exactly. Last session she got given a house by a cousin who went "look I know you gently caress a bunch of ladies and have no self-control and are honestly a mess, but I need you to be slightly less of a mess if we're going to work together. so here's this house so you at least have a place to sleep and gently caress and go buy a new dress jeez." And it's a big plotline thing giving her a bunch of control over her character and political aims while respecting disaster lesbian status?
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Jul 15, 2020 16:50
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It's like, in a decently written game I'd be able to take a skill like "Make bad choices that nonetheless somehow turn out OK for me and me alone" that has just as much ability to impact the plot as the paladin's "Shout 'I Am The Law!' at people until they do what I tell them" skill. But somehow we've ended up in this situation where "my character has no ability to control her life" gets conflated with "my player has no ability to have an impact on the plot" and people mistake it for cool roleplaying.
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Jul 15, 2020 16:57
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Some people confuse "sub-obtimal" with "I can roleplay someone with a weakness!" I think while that's how it gets articulated, the actual reasoning behind it is that optimizing, for a lot of people, doesn't sound fun. It sounds like putting too much effort and thinking too much about playing elfgames with buds. It's mostly just building a template that afterwards you add on through the things that actually make a character, their motivations, flaws, etc. The template of numbers affect how easily you can do all the poo poo you add on afterwards when you want to. If it's built well, it only helps.
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Jul 15, 2020 17:15
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https://twitter.com/pjamesstuart/status/1283306876982235136?s=20 https://twitter.com/pjamesstuart/status/1283352807014379520?s=20 So this guy is still scum.
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Jul 15, 2020 17:31
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theironjef posted:We absolutely have to focus on text of just the book we're reading, and honestly I need to remember to include a quick description of that and why at the start of episodes. Without it, we just get buried by people saying "You can't possibly talk about this book without reading seven other books and this blog!" Basically the way System Mastery rips into the text of a core book and says "Look, this game is bullshit on the face of it", I'd really like a podcast which does a research deep dive and, if a game merits it, say "This game is several layers of bullshit and look, it's got this bullshit support line too/here's how this game was received by the audience/this is the designer's history and look, you have the same streak of bullshit running through all their bullshitty work". Or, if a game actually has merit, teasing that merit out or discussing how later supplements either built on that promise or wrecked it or something like that. It may be I need to either a) listen to more system-specific podcasts, since I imagine that's easier to do in that context, or b) maybe just make a dang thing myself where the podcast consists of short seasons of really deep dives on a particular game.
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Jul 15, 2020 17:34
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Farg posted:but what if that person went and ate the burgers at the TGIF and Burger King after you prodded them and decided that wendys was better Lol this is hilarious to me. Imagine trying for ages to get your 5e-loving bro to try something, anything else. And then one day he comes to you and is like, "yeah, my other buddy got me to play D&D 3.5 and we also tried RIFTS. Sorry dude, I just like 5e best. Matter of taste, but for me 5e is the best RPG. No need to try any others."
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Jul 15, 2020 17:37
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I dunno, I hate making sweeping generalizations, because it can work, I wouldn't recommend doing it in a group with a bunch of randos. But it like mostly just requires knowing what the other players(GM included) want the game to be, and being able to talk to each other out of character about poo poo that's happening. And if everyone else is okay with it. Also there's a difference between sub-optimal and like literally being worthless. picking a "bad" race for a class, or a flavor feat rather than something "useful", I generally have no qualms with. Dumping your classes primary stat is obviously something that would hopefully come up in a session 0. 5e obviously isn't like actually designed around it. So I'm not making this some defense of 5e, but as long as the players you know can talk to each other like human beings people can figure this poo poo out fairly easily. Dexo fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 17:39
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Trojan Kaiju posted:I think while that's how it gets articulated, the actual reasoning behind it is that optimizing, for a lot of people, doesn't sound fun. It sounds like putting too much effort and thinking too much about playing elfgames with buds. It's mostly just building a template that afterwards you add on through the things that actually make a character, their motivations, flaws, etc. The template of numbers affect how easily you can do all the poo poo you add on afterwards when you want to. If it's built well, it only helps. Plus people are really bad at optimizing, myself often included, and understandably would get annoyed with people telling them the thing they think is cool or strong actually is not - for instance see the 3.5e Monk, who somehow convinced people in play groups the world over that it was broken when it was anything but. And after a long enough time this just becomes an identity thing.
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Jul 15, 2020 17:40
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Kurieg posted:https://twitter.com/pjamesstuart/status/1283306876982235136?s=20
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Jul 15, 2020 17:40
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Looks like Patrick Stuart "ironically" being a poo poo about identities.
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Jul 15, 2020 17:43
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I was wondering why the axes & orcs guy posted "Patrick Stuart loving sucks" on his blog today.
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Jul 15, 2020 17:44
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Kurieg posted:https://twitter.com/pjamesstuart/status/1283306876982235136?s=20 i daresay that cancelling someone for dadaist wordplay is going a bit too far e: like I'm okay with saying that yes maybe he shouldn't be making fun of the phrase "not being defined by the colour of their skin" but it's literally right next to reticle bear versus spectacle bear and as allandaros puts it in the responses to the second tweet it's stupid but not horrible? Arivia fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 18:12
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If he was getting cancelled for bad bear jokes it's probably just be that last one where he equates brown bears to brown people. Or just for telling a bipolar bear joke again and then reflexively defending it as a not-PC thing to tell. Like "take my wife please! And if you don't like that joke you're just a humorless cancel troll." And he knew that would be the way that brown bear joke was going to be read, or he wouldn't have sent out a preemptive defensive followup tweet telling people to take their concern on the arches. If anything this would be a lot less ugly without that second tweet. theironjef fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 18:20
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Arivia posted:i daresay that cancelling someone for dadaist wordplay is going a bit too far I'm A-OK for mocking someone who gets on a high horse about *~*their right to spout whatever crazed bullshit I like on here the moment it comes into my head*~* though. I bet we're just lucky he didn't call himself an equal opportunity offender.
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Jul 15, 2020 18:21
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Froghammer posted:What...exactly am I looking at here 
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Jul 15, 2020 18:22
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I was reading it as a self-destructive suicide-by-"""""cancel culture""""" meltdown after people got upset about the minor added LotFP references in DCOv2.
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Jul 15, 2020 18:29
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theironjef posted:If he was getting cancelled for bad bear jokes it's probably just be that last one where he equates brown bears to brown people. Or just for telling a bipolar bear joke again and then reflexively defending it as a not-PC thing to tell. Like "take my wife please! And if you don't like that joke you're just a humorless cancel troll." that's not pre-emptive though? the second is three hours later and right in the middle of the day for him. dude knocks off an early morning sleepy wordplay tweet, gets a bunch of poo poo over it, responds awhile later saying to get off his back about it?
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Jul 15, 2020 18:30
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Kurieg posted:https://twitter.com/pjamesstuart/status/1283306876982235136?s=20 Huh, I've often joked about likening idiots on the internet who try to deflect criticism by falling back on the "Free Speech!" defense to the narrator of the They might Be Giants song "I Should Be Allowed to Think", but this is the closest I've ever seen one of them come to actually quoting the song... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UryTypo2qeU In regards to the earlier discussion about people's opposition to optimization: I think it actually goes beyond the longstanding way games have pushed the narrative of playing a low-stat character as a "roleplaying challenge" and also veers into the general community disdain for the concept of min/maxing or powergaming. In a lot of people's minds, paying any attention at all to making your character mechanically effective is seen as powergaming and is thus a bad wrong thing. I feel like the attitude almost stems from people not understanding what makes that sort of behavior bad (That being someone making a mechanically powerful character that either negates the efforts of the rest of the party or otherwise ruins the rest of their group's fun) and treating it like it's bad because it's some sin against the "spirit" of the game itself. Finally: Unreliable magic. While I will disagree with some other people's opinion and think this could work mechanically, it would be something you'd have to completely build the game's mechanics around and make that unreliable factor something that all characters, including non-casters, had some mechanical access to. It really wouldn't work in D&D because it would necessitate completely reinventing the magic system from scratch.
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Jul 15, 2020 18:31
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dwarf74 posted:the dude does a lot of stream of consciousness stuff, and probably found this a bit amusing. I really don't think there's anything more to it. It's this. If you've read any of his published work, none of that looks in the least bit sinister.
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Jul 15, 2020 18:31
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Arivia posted:that's not pre-emptive though? the second is three hours later and right in the middle of the day for him. dude knocks off an early morning sleepy wordplay tweet, gets a bunch of poo poo over it, responds awhile later saying to get off his back about it? Fair enough, didn't check the timestamps. So basically what we're seeing here is some guy making a pretty bad joke (can safely discard anything but brown bear not defined by the color, which is roughly in the same vein as "my gender is attack helicopter" in terms of language appropriation and respect for people) and we're in the double down phase right now. Will the next thing be the "sorry if you're offended" or the "oh poo poo I actually hosed up a little"? I guess time will tell.
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Jul 15, 2020 18:36
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Whybird posted:I'm A-OK for mocking someone who gets on a high horse about *~*their right to spout whatever crazed bullshit I like on here the moment it comes into my head*~* though. I bet we're just lucky he didn't call himself an equal opportunity offender. there's a distinction between what he's said and what you're alleging though. he's saying that the stream of consciousness stuff is him, personally, and he does that in that space however he feels. that's not the same as saying it's some human right or something. I think he's more responding to people criticizing him for mentioning LotFP in DCO, and saying he is just gonna talk about whatever he likes (people trying to pigeonhole you and getting mad when you don't fit that hole is a big deal on twitter.) Less "I can be a bigot" and more "this is my personal account, and I frankly don't give a poo poo whether you like any of my posts or not."
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Jul 15, 2020 18:38
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Arivia posted:there's a distinction between what he's said and what you're alleging though. he's saying that the stream of consciousness stuff is him, personally, and he does that in that space however he feels. that's not the same as saying it's some human right or something. I think he's more responding to people criticizing him for mentioning LotFP in DCO, and saying he is just gonna talk about whatever he likes (people trying to pigeonhole you and getting mad when you don't fit that hole is a big deal on twitter.) Sure but it’s trivially obvious that people’s streams of consciousness produce heinous and harmful stuff. I’m not qualified to say how bad the bear joke really is, but “I’m going to behave with absolutely no filter in public” is a terrible position.
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Jul 15, 2020 19:38
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https://boards.greenhouse.io/wizardsofthecoast/jobs/4791760002?gh_src=266096a72us 
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Jul 15, 2020 19:48
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So, uh, what does the job...do What are it’s duties and responsibilities, what are it’s requirements This job ad is missing some important info E: it looks like the main thing they want is a recruiter
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Jul 15, 2020 19:56
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Mors Rattus posted:So, uh, what does the job...do I mean it's in the link My image isn't the full job posting.
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Jul 15, 2020 19:59
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https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/the-colorblind-rainbow-center-for-campus-diversity-seeks-a-new-director-to-tell-us-that-nothing-is-wrong
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Jul 15, 2020 20:13
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we've been talking about pathfinder 2e as an alternative to 5e, there's a bundle of discount PDFs up right now: https://www.humblebundle.com/books/pathfinder-second-edition-paizo-inc-books
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Jul 15, 2020 20:14
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feeling better and better about getting my refund for deep carbon observatory every day lol
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Jul 15, 2020 20:16
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theironjef posted:Absolutely, disaster queer is a stereotype more related to relationship choices and organizational habits, it's not a 1 to 1 transition to "I cast the wrong spells all the time." Wacky failure as a comic constant is just another way to reach for the spotlight, and one that isn't really mechanically supported by D&D. gradenko_2000 posted:I can't quite get over the bit where people deliberately want to play a character that's "sub-optimal"?
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Jul 15, 2020 20:16
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Maybe it's because having a single expression of something is dull and a need for difference, even it is to the detriment of the person, is more fun than acquiescing to how stuff "should" be.
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Jul 15, 2020 20:23
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Josef bugman posted:Maybe it's because having a single expression of something is dull and a need for difference, even it is to the detriment of the person, is more fun than acquiescing to how stuff "should" be. Play a game that supports that instead of mechanically punishing you and 3-5 other people at the table for doing it.
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Jul 15, 2020 20:29
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Gobbeldygook posted:and games that support it do exist! "Comic relief gently caress-up" is arguably the optimal FATE character. Yeah, arguably Cheerleader Warlord is one of the stronger 4e characters.
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Jul 15, 2020 20:44
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Arivia posted:we've been talking about pathfinder 2e as an alternative to 5e, there's a bundle of discount PDFs up right now: https://www.humblebundle.com/books/pathfinder-second-edition-paizo-inc-books Thanks for this. I've been thinking of checking it out as a possible substitute for 5E for games with the kids.
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Jul 15, 2020 20:45
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Lemon-Lime posted:Play a game that supports that instead of mechanically punishing you and 3-5 other people at the table for doing it. I thought the general idea was stop playing 5e at all. Maybe this'll lead to that.
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Jul 15, 2020 20:56
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Dexo posted:I mean it's in the link I read the full ad, yeah. As far as I can tell, the main thing they want from it is an HR recruiting specialist to aid in diversity in future hiring?
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Jul 15, 2020 21:05
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Funzo posted:Thanks for this. I've been thinking of checking it out as a possible substitute for 5E for games with the kids. look up index card rpg, it's a modular, kind of classless, loot based DnDalike. i like it a lot. it's pretty simple. my only complaint is that it feels like its written assuming you know rpgs to begin with, and game and class setup may need a little back and forth between gm and players. ICRPG is to DnD as FinalFantasy Crystal Chronicles is to regular FinalFantasys.
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Jul 15, 2020 22:29
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WaywardWoodwose posted:look up index card rpg, it's a modular, kind of classless, loot based DnDalike. i like it a lot. it's pretty simple. my only complaint is that it feels like its written assuming you know rpgs to begin with, and game and class setup may need a little back and forth between gm and players. yeah something like ICRPG or the Black Hack or Quest might be the winner in that case if they're young kids. There's a Basic set coming for Pathfinder 2e (with extended support and compatibility for taking things into the full system) but it's a ways off.
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Jul 15, 2020 22:39
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So I went to a local retail store and I saw something really weird. Mixed in with the 5e books was a copy of Ghostwalk setting for 3e which looked pristine. One of the employees who must have heard me saying what repeatedly was confused too. This wasn't a mom and pop retail store. This was a retail chain (Newbury Comics) which generally doesn't stock that stuff. Anyone have any ideas how that would happen? Are there still warehouses of 3e books out there?
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Jul 16, 2020 01:06
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