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I really dont think it's a matter of how you look at it either. Their notes were them talking about making it even creepier. This poo poo just flew past me as a kid. When's the listener request season for WHM btw? Do they still do that or just for the patreon people? Really wanna "recommend" this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Day_Without_a_Mexican
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Jul 15, 2020 20:47
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Punkin Spunkin posted:When's the listener request season for WHM btw? Do they still do that or just for the patreon people? It's... March? from memory, they take submissions around Jan-Feb. Patrons get to vote on the patron-only stuff, everyone votes on main feed.
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Jul 15, 2020 21:01
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Punkin Spunkin posted:I really dont think it's a matter of how you look at it either. The movie sucks even if it has a good message
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Jul 15, 2020 23:03
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Speaking of my cinematic axes to grind i really appreciated We Hate Movies calling out 300 (in their 300th episode) as possibly one of the most racist films of the last 20 years because lord knows plenty of goons and internet shitbirds and real life nerds would constantly try to gaslight and pose my extreme hatred for that film as me taking things too seriously or personally or "it's MEANT to be (racist) propaganda/it's not real history/it's making a critical statement on Bush era politics" or whatever white male nerd blahblahblahing. We're not even TOUCHING the ableism and homophobia of the film. Just on the racism and colorism alone, it's one of the most disgusting films of all time. I mean honestly I'm kind of torn on it because I think both sides of the 300 debate are right On the one hand, it's very very clearly trying to portray the Spartans as being a kind of hosed up and awful society, a nation of violent racists who explicitly do not value human life unless used for a militaristic purpose. Like, if you think about the movie's structure for longer than five seconds, there's not really any other reading you can arrive at: it's a story being told by a Spartan to rile up other Spartans with the general idea that it's some badass heroic deed, when the reality is it's horrifying from any modern perspective. On the other hand, 300 was not really a movie that appealed to the type of people that would clock that this is what Snyder was doing. It was positioned in marketing and metatext as a Dumb Meathead Movie that intellectuals will find no value in, and the type of dumb meathead who Warner Brothers targeted the movie at is the exact kind of person who would look at everything hosed up about Spartan culture and go "HELL YEAH THIS OWNS WE SHOULD GO BACK TO THAT" without any kind of critical thought. So, while I can see and appreciate what Snyder's trying to do (and it's blindingly obvious enough that I genuinely don't believe anyone who attempts to critically read the movie and doesn't see it), I also can't in good conscience say that it worked, or that it didn't cause some level of societal harm simply on the basis of people not getting it. In a way, it's kind of Snyder's work in a nutshell. I feel like if he's got one core flaw, it's that he doesn't really know his audience; he keeps making movies that are, on paper, tailor-made for "bro appeal," and then does things within those movies that (even if extremely blunt and facile to anyone attempting to critically read the movie) just fly right over the primary audience's head and end up being interpreted in bizarre and sometimes harmful ways.
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Jul 16, 2020 04:00
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Depicting a racist, homophobic society doesn't exactly mean it's a ringing endorsement... this was posted in Snyderdome recently: https://twitter.com/GreatKungLao/status/1278562885329915904/photo/1 WHM are great podcast hosts but their takes on ZS films are a point of friction with me. The Kenny G letter and the whole BvS episode was funny and a bit unhinged, but ignoring that there is depth and subtext to these films is just a bit silly at this point.
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Jul 16, 2020 06:30
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Yeahhh that's uhhh...super compelling stuff... Boy this white dude meant HIS addition to the endless flow of racist homophobic media catering to white dudes to be kinda ironic and not entirely sincere in its endorsements haha!! Cool great awesome Bringing up that depth or subtext, it really doesn't change my point of view on the film because it's still an addition to the Orientalist racist canon. He can say he didn't mean to depict a black and white clash of civilizations, or say he was commenting on that, or subverting it, but it just feels like the one that white dudes can act kinda sly about online so they can feel less guilty about enjoying it or act like it's not the most base sort of trash. Punkin Spunkin fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 07:17
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Zach Synder has made some of the worst movies ever made. There is no subtlety in his work, no metaphor, characters talk about what the movie is about, everything is in your face. 300 is comically bad, like you're not supposed to be laughing at it but the theater I saw it in was full of people laughing, myself included. Watchmen is cringe-worthy, poorly cast, and completely misses the point of the comic. Man of Steel is sanctimonious spittle; the characters are under-development and any story momentum is killed by the drawn out CGI train wreck and punch-a-thon. He completely misses the point of Superman. BvS is worse and Justice League looks like a loving video game. His movies are unpleasant and excruciatingly hard to endure. They belong in the same category as Bay's Transformers movies.
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Jul 16, 2020 07:26
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I sincerely believe that 90% of Snyder heads has never heard him talk. Watching interviews with him (rather than just reading them” cements just what a shallow person he is. Him talking about the benefits to his art that Turkish Airlines brings to the table is just the cherry on top of a colossal shitmountain. I don’t care if the studio strong arms him; if you knowingly make a movie under such stipulations, and then go on camera gushing about the product placement with a straight face, then you’re a hack. Don’t @ me Snyderheads I don’t care. Moving on: Raiders episode is great. The U-boat scene is one of my favorite parts, despite it being crazy. It’s such a great image to see Harrison Ford climb up a U-boat, salute the cargo crew and move on, to the wonderful Williams score. I also didn’t know that the actor who places Katanga places the one black character in the Harry Potter movies. I am a bit surprised they overlooked his fantastic spit as he is introduced.
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Jul 16, 2020 07:30
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It just seems kinda, either stupid or bad faith to me on his part. Just going "well hey, uhh they're obviously supposed to be the bad guys." But it's an addition to an endless glorification of Spartan brutality that has existed among weird Western nerds for thousands of years. They don't usually put the baby eugenics on the top of the poo poo they think makes Sparta cool, but it's never stopped them from glorifying Sparta before. It's a stylized glorification of Spartan bravery and courage, period, going "but it's from the point of view of the racists though that's the point!!!" is the sort of thing that only sounds sane when you dont have to daily deal with the widespread consequences of this sort of mass culture (whether its components are the ones doing it straight up or "to like, comment on it, man") It feels to me like when Gaspar Noe calls himself a feminist.
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Jul 16, 2020 07:33
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Movie pitch, great contribution to the mass media of an already white supremacist country, movie where african american slaves are grotesquely bodied racist caricatures and literal monsters based on a known racist's comic But get this the guy who made it, the whole point is that he's showing you that the slave plantation owner's SAW them as monkeypeople. It's CSA propaganda. #deeptoawhitedude
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Jul 16, 2020 07:39
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clown shoes posted:Zach Synder has made some of the worst movies ever made. There is no subtlety in his work, no metaphor, characters talk about what the movie is about, everything is in your face. 300 is comically bad, like you're not supposed to be laughing at it but the theater I saw it in was full of people laughing, myself included. Watchmen is cringe-worthy, poorly cast, and completely misses the point of the comic. Man of Steel is sanctimonious spittle; the characters are under-development and any story momentum is killed by the drawn out CGI train wreck and punch-a-thon. He completely misses the point of Superman. BvS is worse and Justice League looks like a loving video game. His movies are unpleasant and excruciatingly hard to endure. They belong in the same category as Bay's Transformers movies. This is kinda dense so I'm not going to respond to all of it (feel free to check out the Snyder thread, it's chill and has a lot of interesting talk about some of the reasons people really do like these films, and how they're special). What exactly do you think is "The Point Of Superman"? To me, it's an alien coming to earth and learning Also: Bay's transformers movies are also heavy on subtext and societal commentary. Another franchise I feel like WHM ignore the interesting parts of to rampantly poo poo on (as is their prerogative as a comedy show).
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Jul 16, 2020 07:39
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The last scene of 300 does not, in any way shape or form, try to leave any impression other than “Leonidas and his 300 was fuckin’ rad ORAAAH” so I don’t see how one can argue that they are meant to be bad guys, when the send off of the movie very clearly identify them as heroes. LOL at Transformers movies having dense themes. Good one mate.
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Jul 16, 2020 07:41
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It's insane to decide to adapt a racist comic created by a racist guy (but get this the racist guy was just depicting the historically racist viewpoints of other past racist guys). You'd have to approach it with extreme artfulness and delicacy to not risk adapting this racist propaganda into...racist propaganda. It'd be pretty hard, take some creativity, and probably be best not handled by a white dude. It's like arguing Sucker Punch is feminist empowerment. The most specious sort of self serving white dude arguments that ultimately if even true in principle and intent are utterly irrelevant given their additions to a mass culture of persecution, erasure, and bullshit. 300 ain't helping anybody. Punkin Spunkin fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 07:46
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It's hard for me to see it like Zack Snyder's Starship Troopers even though that seems like a common pitch here.
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Jul 16, 2020 07:51
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There's another thread in CineD about Transformers, it really shook up some preconceived notions I had about those movies: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3571842 The PDF link is probably the place to look if you want to like, expand your mind by reading about insane dumb movies. Note I haven't said Transformers is good, or an ejoyable watch, just that it's interesting and there is quite literally "more than meets the eye" to the franchise. quote:The first thing you need to know about Transformers is that it hates you. If you like reading essays and learning about movies I fully recommend it. One thing to keep in mind when reading it is that each second in Transformers costs a few thousand dollars, and anything in there is there on purpose. If there are accidents, they're rare. I'm gonna veer off directly talking about ZS because that's for the Snyderdome, which has covered the christian motifs and allegorical themes really comprehensively. Also encouraged - it's good to learn why people like things that you don't. edit: the below post highlights a concerning lack of memory that people seem to have. It's not even a long movie, it's just under two hours, that's nothing for the genre. well why not fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 07:53
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The movie literally loving opens with a shot of child skeletons and a narrator going "OUR SOCIETY IS BADASS BECAUSE IT IS BUILT ON HURLING BABIES OFF CLIFFS." I'm not sure how much more unsubtly "you are not supposed to be okay with this society" you can get than them being literal, actual eugenicist baby-murderers, and that's the very first impression the viewer gets of Spartans in 300. It's not a great movie, I agree, but it's not exactly a jigsaw puzzle.
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Jul 16, 2020 08:06
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When 300 came out I really liked it (I was a teenager at the time) and later on read the newspaper reviews. Now the thing about Portuguese movie critics is that most of them think all movies should be high art (I can only recall this particular newspaper giving 5 stars to one movie and it was Fellini's Amarcord) This review gave 300 zero stars and called it "the biggest piece of cinematic cryptofascist propaganda since the works of Leni Riefenstahl". At the time I thought they were being pretentious assholes. Now I fully agree with them. That's my 300 story.
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Jul 16, 2020 08:16
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:The movie literally loving opens with a shot of child skeletons and a narrator going "OUR SOCIETY IS BADASS BECAUSE IT IS BUILT ON HURLING BABIES OFF CLIFFS." Now that sounds exactly like what a 2007 dead babies joke would be.
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Jul 16, 2020 08:17
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In the future every thread will have a 15 minute argument about Zach Snyder movies
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Jul 16, 2020 12:46
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So wait, by racist stuff in Doom, you mean the snake eating and all that garbage, right? Isn't that the nature of the demon worshipper baddies in the movie? The temple of doom is directly below that kitchen table, right? That's what the internet told me. Eyeball soup and poo poo like that is tipping us off to the idea that something is wrong here, not "lol this is indian food lol" Idk why but im going to patreon spoiler since it just came out: turtle ghost oh no turtle skeleton whats the 500th episode? Is it the most stay tuned? John Belushi? Busey? What you think
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Jul 16, 2020 13:49
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Do they even have any Jim Belushi quote-unquote movies left? I guess they can do a random assortment of episodes of his lovely TV show. Fezz fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 14:27
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The Vosgian Beast posted:In the future every thread will have a 15 minute argument about Zach Snyder movies The future is now!m Also, they haven’t talked about Master of Disguise yet have they? Speaking of turtles...
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Jul 16, 2020 14:33
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Fezz posted:Do they even have any John Belushi quote-unquote movies left? I assume you guys mean Jim Belushi.
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Jul 16, 2020 15:02
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Of course I mean Jim. That feels awful! Sorry.
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Jul 16, 2020 15:29
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:The movie literally loving opens with a shot of child skeletons and a narrator going "OUR SOCIETY IS BADASS BECAUSE IT IS BUILT ON HURLING BABIES OFF CLIFFS." probably the part where it was constantly shown to be correct and that a tiny amount of Spartan soldiers was equal to a full army of a much more developed and advanced empire that was portrayed as supernatural monsters eager to rape and murder everything in their path.
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Jul 16, 2020 16:59
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:The movie literally loving opens with a shot of child skeletons and a narrator going "OUR SOCIETY IS BADASS BECAUSE IT IS BUILT ON HURLING BABIES OFF CLIFFS." Just going "well hey, uhh they're obviously supposed to be the bad guys." is self-serving bullshit. It's an addition to an endless glorification of Spartan brutality that has existed among weird Western nerds for thousands of years. They don't usually put the baby eugenics on the top of the poo poo they think makes Sparta cool, but it's never stopped them from glorifying Sparta before. Of course the film also has them going "we're not gay and we hate slavery" basically, which is weird for "Spartan propaganda". I guess they just didn't feel the need to whitewash the baby killing but they did feel the need to whitewash other things, almost as if designed by the sensibilities of a modern KNOWN RACIST American guy named Frank Miller. It's a stylized glorification of Spartan bravery and courage, period, going "but it's from the point of view of the racists though that's the point!!!" is the sort of thing that only sounds sane when you dont have to daily deal with the widespread consequences of this sort of mass culture (whether its components are the ones doing it straight up or "to like, comment on it, man") It's a stylized glorification of this in a WHITE SUPREMACIST ETHNOSTATE that has FLIRTED with PLENTY of eugenics throughout its history. But hey it's showing things that are "obviously bad" so I'm sure it's not harmful. Punkin Spunkin fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 17:27
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Y'all the kind of motherfuckers who would argue that Pain & Gain is a successfully subversive critique of capitalism. It's like it's impossible for some of yall to consider how some films are through the eyes of people who aren't straight white men.
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Jul 16, 2020 17:32
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Y'all the kind of motherfuckers who would argue that Pain & Gain is a successfully subversive critique of capitalism. it is. sorry you're mad that you don't understand movies
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Jul 16, 2020 17:40
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BigglesSWE posted:The future is now!m I’m pretty sure they mentioned Master of Disguise as being The Room-tier and they’ll never do it
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Jul 16, 2020 17:57
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Didn't Master of Disguise break one of them?
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Jul 16, 2020 17:59
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Soup du Jour posted:I’m pretty sure they mentioned Master of Disguise as being The Room-tier and they’ll never do it This is the right opinion. The only thing to mine for jokes is the day they shot that scene on 9/11, and that's a story to read about, not do an entire podcast about.
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Jul 16, 2020 18:08
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ulex minor posted:it is. sorry you're mad that you don't understand movies I can imagine thinking Michael Bay intended that but imagine feeling like he succeeded. I'd have to be a straight white guy. People ITT actually arguing against a PoC to say they truly believe this white dude succeeded in adapting another KNOWN racist white dude's racist propaganda depicting historical racists into something nuanced and not toxic. And part of the evidence is him mumbling about how he made them obviously evil. Gosh, knowing about their eugenics policies sure stopped the last few thousand years of white dudes worshipping them. Punkin Spunkin fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 19:26
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Lord ill be dead the day white dudes stop justifying grotesque depictions of everyone else around them with "hey it really happened though"/"it's commenting on it!!"/"he's supposed to be obviously bad!"
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Jul 16, 2020 19:37
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It's this ouroboros circle (dog eating its own poo poo) of white leftists/libs just using their big brain cinematic analysis to WOAH BIG COINCIDENCE justify liking their baby comic book/toy tv and movie series Did you know 300 and Transformers actually contain deep nuanced meanings?? How many of yall talking about how Ghostbusters 2016 is secretly genius? 🤣 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 16, 2020 19:44
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Haha i thought for a second Raiders was getting a We Hate Movies and it almost made sense
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Jul 16, 2020 19:49
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"It obviously shows them as bad and hosed up." "Yeah a hosed up society that produces the sort of superhuman soldiers necessary to stop a million strong DARK HORDE." "Yeah well it also shows them as super cool because it's like Starship Troopers, it's THEIR racist propaganda." drat, gotta say as a person of color in a white supremacist ethnostate that im super glad 300 exists. Fantastic critique!!
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Jul 16, 2020 20:01
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Imagine thinking Micheal tape-up-megan-fox-shirt Bay is formulating 11th dimensional chess critique of capitalism and not just a gross smooth brained old man like Zack Snyder also.
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Jul 16, 2020 20:13
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:I'm not sure how much more unsubtly "you are not supposed to be okay with this society" you can get than them being literal, actual eugenicist baby-murderers, and that's the very first impression the viewer gets of Spartans in 300. Tell me how it goes when you show 300 to your 14 yo cousin for the first time and he remarks how evil he knows the Spartans are n obviously sides/empathizes more with the tall dark brown men especially the pierced queer coded one. Lol i love the stupid condescending pedestal yall choose to stand on thats like uhhh obviously bad thing is bad like cant you see???
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Jul 16, 2020 21:08
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Fezz posted:Do they even have any Jim Belushi quote-unquote movies left? There is Pebble and the Penguin, which has Jim Belushi as a penguin sidekick. Edit: He also sings!
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Jul 16, 2020 21:12
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:The movie literally loving opens with a shot of child skeletons and a narrator going "OUR SOCIETY IS BADASS BECAUSE IT IS BUILT ON HURLING BABIES OFF CLIFFS." So the whole part where it leads to a bad rear end 300 super soldiers who can fight off the MILLIONS FOREIGN HORDE on their own to preserve the future of DEMOCRACY and also the one deformed person who escaped being tossed off a cliff betrays them and is an rear end in a top hat and Leonidas just shakes his head at him cause he's so corrupt in body and spirit and dies heroically... Look man, it's great that the cryto fascist propaganda didn't work on you and all but like, Triumph of The Will wasn't made as a critique on Nazi Germany. MariusLecter fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 21:55
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