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The Chronicles are important prequel works with strong thematic and narrative ties to the series, while the Megamorphs books are more flashy headliner standalone stories. [spoilers all] I agree that the mythology gets way too crowded as the series drags on, when as this brief reread shows you don't need more than a few fundamental elements to tell compelling stories, even under these constraints. The Helmacrons and Nartec were obviously gag stories, like the Andalite toilet in Area 51 book where Marco maintains his horse disguise by looking a Controller dead in the eye and making GBS threads wildly. I really dug the Ellimist and Crayak stuff, but it probably wasn't necessary and certainly was not threaded in as effectively as might be hoped with the more central themes of the series. The Ellimist Chronicles really needed to be a thousand pages long and one of the first brickbuster kid books, for as much as you went in hoping would be addressed and doesn't remotely appear. I mean Brian Jacques was getting up there that same year, Taggerung could knock somebody out in hardback. But no mention of The Time Matrix or The Pemalites. Nothing on the revelations of Megamorphs 4, or some deep example of his circuitous game. Did Crayak create the Yeerks? Did he create the Capasins that destroyed the Ketran homeworld? They do bear a resemblance to the Howlers. So much of it is told in summary form that desperately needed expanding upon, and by that point having grown up with the series I'd have been ready for a cosmic Silmarillion experience, but, alas. Erek and the Chee were a way to give the Animorphs more agency to affect a more advanced conflict, and later books cast him almost in the role of their Q, or Inspector Gadget's boss, coming in to brief them on their next mission. But even this level of conflict wouldn't have been necessary. And again, it does rather dilute some of the most essential core themes to give them immortal robot dog allies
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 06:46 |
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# ? May 24, 2024 23:43 |
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Too-long post with spoilers for everything.Daikloktos posted:Also did the Cassie thing play into the timetravelling Wrong Hitler book at all? That felt really tacked on. Did it... ever play out anywhere else? The Sario Rips? Directly, no. But in hindsight it can be inferred. The important part is that Cassie's weird ability eventually, not immediately, fucks up other timelines. When you look at the amount of, I don't know, "real" time spent in the other timelines, Megamorphs 4 has the most by far, taking place over the course of weeks or even months (I don't recall for sure). Megamorphs 3 goes back further in time, but from Visser Four's and the kids' perspectives, it takes place over a couple hours or so of "real" time. The first Sario rip is also only a few hours, and the one in Megamorphs 2 is a couple days. MM4 does specify that Cassie knew things were somehow wrong very quickly, but MM4 is also the only one where she doesn't remember the real timeline; "magically knowing things were wrong" wouldn't have applied to the other situations. So it's entirely possible that Megamorphs 4 is the only time the team were out of the real timeline long enough for Cassie's thing to come into play. It's also possible to infer, like I said, that specifically in Megamorphs 3 Cassie was the Ellimist's backup plan inside his backup plan; if the kids couldn't beat the Visser playing fair, or did get to the Time Matrix but (intentionally or otherwise) didn't put the timeline back quite right, Cassie's involvement would eventually gently caress up the changes anyway. But the real answer is probably "KAA made it up for MM4 and it's not definitely inconsistent with canon." Daikloktos posted:I agree that the mythology gets way too crowded as the series drags on Just quoting this because I completely agree. Daikloktos posted:I really dug the Ellimist and Crayak stuff, but it probably wasn't necessary and certainly was not threaded in as effectively as might be hoped with the more central themes of the series. I think the "not threading in" is intentional and actually thematically important. The point is that Ellimist v. Crayak may be relevant to the Animorphs' war, but is bigger than all the wars and played on a board the kids just can't fathom. That puts the kids in the position of having a beneficial fairy godfather but constantly having to question if he's helping them or helping the game. Look at book 26: the Ellimist is willing to risk the team (and thus the entire war on Earth) to protect the Iskoort, because if the Yeerks aren't defeated on Earth it's important for the game that the Iskoort are there for them to find hundreds of years later. Daikloktos posted:Erek and the Chee were a way to give the Animorphs more agency to affect a more advanced conflict, and later books cast him almost in the role of their Q, or Inspector Gadget's boss, coming in to brief them on their next mission. But even this level of conflict wouldn't have been necessary. And again, it does rather dilute some of the most essential core themes to give them immortal robot dog allies Part of this is that Erek was supposed to be a one-shot character, but he was surprisingly popular, and KAA later realized having an intelligence source who can't act on his own intelligence was handy for the narrative.
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 16:23 |
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PetraCore posted:Agree to disagree on the basis that the Chee are good. The rest I can mostly do without. yeah that's actually really cool and good and extremely relatable. all dogs are good boys
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 18:24 |
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[b]The Capture-Chapter 2/b]quote:RUN! Run from the LIGHT! https://youtu.be/z4c2gadmytg
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 23:06 |
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i like this roachbrain. it just...doesn't care. it's even right there; "oh, you're a roach too." and then move on.
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# ? Jul 14, 2020 23:20 |
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I've heard The Ellimist's actions make more sense when you realize he/it represents the military industrial complex
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# ? Jul 15, 2020 02:36 |
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SardonicTyrant posted:I've heard The Ellimist's actions make more sense when you realize he/it represents the military industrial complex No, that’s what the Andalites represent: a force everyone views with hope that actually doesn’t care if you’re ground into paste as long as its big-picture goals are accomplished, no matter the collateral damage
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# ? Jul 15, 2020 02:58 |
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SardonicTyrant posted:I've heard The Ellimist's actions make more sense when you realize he/it represents the military industrial complex
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# ? Jul 15, 2020 17:54 |
Which is again, some serious stuff for children's books.
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# ? Jul 15, 2020 20:04 |
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The Capture-Chapter 3quote:So?" Rachel demanded. "What was it? How did you get trapped?" At least he tried the morph out ahead of time! Baby steps. quote:Rachel whistled appreciatively. "It's a new, tougher Cassie. I approve." Even if you include "I don't think of her that way because she's my cousin" don't say that about your cousin. quote:
I'm on Marco's side here. NCAA over NBA all the way. quote:The last member of our original group is Tobias. Tobias used to be this kind of sweet guy with wild blond hair. A dreamy sort of person with a really terrible home life. With everybody having cell phones, this wouldn't really work nowadays quote:Marco laughed. "Cool. Jake the superspy. Nice trick." Actually, I think this is really clever of the Yeerks. Your victims come to you.
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# ? Jul 15, 2020 23:21 |
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Oh no, I see how this is going to go wrong.
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# ? Jul 16, 2020 03:21 |
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Epicurius posted:Actually, I think this is really clever of the Yeerks. Your victims come to you.
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# ? Jul 16, 2020 06:08 |
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Ugh, as if anaesthesia wasn't creepy enough...
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# ? Jul 16, 2020 10:05 |
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I really like the whole "this is a list of every reason why Marco and I are at odds. Also he's my best friend and I'd die for him" bit
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# ? Jul 16, 2020 10:10 |
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PetraCore posted:You also get full access to the medical records of your victims, so you can see if, say, there's diabetes or a heart murmur or any number of annoying things (that maybe might become more of a problem if they're struggling for control), or if they're healthy, strong, and in a good position to advance your agenda. he latter is especially useful to the Yeerks given they probably have low faculties of inference and need to directly absorb more obscure or esoteric modes of thought [spoilers all] but we have to wait until this book to wrap up before we can seriously discuss the Yeerk experience Daikloktos fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Jul 16, 2020 |
# ? Jul 16, 2020 21:13 |
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The Capture Chapter 4quote:Tom came home late that evening. He smelled like wood smoke and barbecue sauce. I don't know. I think there's probably a whole essay on the whole relationship dynamics in that chapter.
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# ? Jul 16, 2020 23:28 |
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One of these days Tom's yeerk is going to figure it out. The pieces are there.
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# ? Jul 17, 2020 00:46 |
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Jake might as well have been yelling "I sure do like being a human being in control of my own body, with no alien hi-jackers! No yerks for me, no sirree!"
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# ? Jul 17, 2020 03:24 |
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Jake at dinner: Guywithayeerksayswhat? Tom: what? Jake:
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# ? Jul 17, 2020 03:40 |
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Yeah he's not exactly the most subtle boy in the world.
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# ? Jul 17, 2020 04:23 |
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Want to read the spin-off stories of a suburban family of all Controllers, low-ranking enough that none of them knows about the others, spinning elaborate stories to one another to excuse their trips to the Pool, gatherings with The Sharing, and infiltration missions for Visser Three, who is too self-absorbed to know or care about their contradictory ruses. Naturally the most ruthless and cutthroat of them will infest the body of a small child.
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# ? Jul 17, 2020 05:10 |
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Cernunnos posted:Yeah he's not exactly the most subtle boy in the world. Neither he nor Yeerk Tom will win any awards for misdirection.
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# ? Jul 17, 2020 05:37 |
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feetnotes posted:Want to read the spin-off stories of a suburban family of all Controllers, low-ranking enough that none of them knows about the others, spinning elaborate stories to one another to excuse their trips to the Pool, gatherings with The Sharing, and infiltration missions for Visser Three, who is too self-absorbed to know or care about their contradictory ruses. Naturally the most ruthless and cutthroat of them will infest the body of a small child. So basically Third Rock From The Sun, only The Big Giant Head is slightly more of a bafoon in this version
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# ? Jul 17, 2020 05:41 |
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Epicurius posted:Neither he nor Yeerk Tom will win any awards for misdirection. Look, no one in this family is Marco
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# ? Jul 17, 2020 05:52 |
This is like that moment in Thunderball where Bond just keeps saying "spectre" over and over in a conversation with a SPECTRE agent to see if he'll panic.
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# ? Jul 17, 2020 06:35 |
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feetnotes posted:Want to read the spin-off stories of a suburban family of all Controllers, low-ranking enough that none of them knows about the others, spinning elaborate stories to one another to excuse their trips to the Pool, gatherings with The Sharing, and infiltration missions for Visser Three, who is too self-absorbed to know or care about their contradictory ruses. Naturally the most ruthless and cutthroat of them will infest the body of a small child. That's almost the plot of Equilibrium.
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# ? Jul 17, 2020 08:50 |
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The Capture-Chapter5quote:"I can't believe we are actually going to practice a morph," Marco said. "We never practice. We just do it, and when it's a huge disaster we try and deal with it then." Marco's as surprised as I am about the idea of practing a morph. Also, congrats to him on the move. quote:"Is it possible to die of total willies?" Cassie asked. "I mean, do you think we could someday just gross ourselves right out of existence? I didn't even like touching a cockroach. How am I going to stand becoming one?" Ax just loves the diversity of earth life. It's great. quote:"Cockroaches are not wonderful," Rachel said, shuddering a little. "I mean, I'm sorry, but I don't like those bodies." Something Freudian, basically. I also like the acknowledgment that Hawk Tobias just wants to kill all the time now. quote:"I just don't want anything to happen to Tom," I said lamely. "It's not just about what might happen if there's a fight. It's. . . . Look, I think Tom is important to this whole hospital plan somehow. I think maybe he's in charge. If we manage to stop this thing, who knows what they'll do to Tom? I mean, maybe Visser Three just kills Tom's Yeerk. But we've all seen Visser Three in action. He likes to make examples out of anyone who fails him. He could kill Tom." So this whole thing is Jake coming to the realization, I think, that, you know, a Yeerk actually is controlling Tom, which he knew already, but its also him realizing that, by fighting them, he might have to kill Tom, and trying to come to terms with that. it's....a hard choice. The other thing I find interesting, and I don''t know how to fully enunciate why I find it interesting is that we're reminded that even though the person they're talking about who's masterminding this plan looks like Tom, it's not Tom. It's the Yeerk inside of Tom. And the reason I find that interesting is that the reminder comes from Tobias, who's still Tobias, even though he no longer looks like Tobias.So he's sort of the perfect person to remind thee team about the difference between appearance and reality. Epicurius fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jul 17, 2020 |
# ? Jul 17, 2020 23:51 |
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Also, this is very much the Tom Controller:
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# ? Jul 18, 2020 01:21 |
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Imagine being a yeerk soldier, intelligent and cunning, a full adult with adult responsibilities, expecting to at least get an adult body and hopefully someone interesting or strong. Anyway, you get Tom and have to go to high school.
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# ? Jul 18, 2020 01:44 |
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this "High School" seems to be a vital cultural touchstone for members of this so-called "Yu-Ess-Eh". clearly, we must infiltrate it and learn its secrets to better subvert the puny humans. it is an important mission!
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# ? Jul 18, 2020 02:34 |
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Yeerks also have a very difficult life cycle so having a juvenile host might not be so inherently demeaning. Plus as a strapping basketball jock Tom does command some authority and status among his peers.
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# ? Jul 18, 2020 02:54 |
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I mean it seems like a pretty valuable target. Tom is cool and popular, which means he can get it other kids infested who can in turn get adults infested. Also didn't it say Tom's yeerk was rising through the ranks. He might have been a grunt level yeerk which got him the teenage host who is now getting promoted because of the results he's getting.
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# ? Jul 18, 2020 03:03 |
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Moreover, children are basically invisible in modern American society, doubly so in the 90s when the books are set. It's the reason why the Animorphs get away with a whole cornucopia of audacious poo poo, because everyone else around them writes it off as "oh, it's just kids doing weird kid stuff, whatever." That sword cuts both ways, and Yeerk soldiers with child hosts would be horrifically effective covert agents.
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# ? Jul 18, 2020 05:21 |
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The big limitation that Tom's Yeerk has, or any other kid or teen Human-controller that's not living with other Human-controllers is the same one that Jake and the other Animorphs has, which is that if you're 16 or 14, you're still legally and economically dependent on your parents. Tom's parents obviously give him a lot of freedom, but they can still set rules or curfews or whatever for him that the Yeerk has to obey if he doesn't want to risk blowing his cover. So he's limited in his capabilities that way. Obviously, in a lot of ways, the best thing to do would be to get his parents and Jake Yeerked ASAP, which would let the Yeerk drop the facade at home and let him do the things he needs to do, but there are difficulties there. Speaking of Tom, if you remember, every book, I was looking at one of the actors behind the characters on the TV series. Obviously, this is a Jake book and we've already done Shawn Ashmore, but Tom was played by Joshua Peace Peace is a Canadian actor who's been in a bunch of films (including very small roles in the HBO version of Grey Gardens and the Bruce Willis/Morgan Freeman/Helen Mirrin action comedy RED). His most recent film was the 2019 Canadian Film "Queen of the Morning Calm", about a sex worker and her ten year old daughter who try to break out of the cycle of abuse they've been living in. I will say that the role isn't well cast if you go by book descriptions. In the books, Tom is described as looking like Jake, only older, and Peace and Ashmore don't and didn't look all that much alike. Epicurius fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Jul 18, 2020 |
# ? Jul 18, 2020 06:33 |
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Epicurius posted:The big limitation that Tom's Yeerk has, or any other kid or teen Human-controller that's not living with other Human-controllers is the same one that Jake and the other Animorphs has, which is that if you're 16 or 14, you're still legally and economically dependent on your parents. Tom's parents obviously give him a lot of freedom, but they can still set rules or curfews or whatever for him that the Yeerk has to obey if he doesn't want to risk blowing his cover. So he's limited in his capabilities that way. Obviously, in a lot of ways, the best thing to do would be to get his parents and Jake Yeerked ASAP, which would let the Yeerk drop the facade at home and let him do the things he needs to do, but there are difficulties there. It's incredibly telling that there is a metric fuckton of Tom POV fan fiction out there and it usually comes in one of three flavors, 1) what a hypotheical post-Yeerk Tom would be like, 2) Tom's struggle against his Yeerk Controller parallel to the Animorphs journey through the series, or 3) speculative pieces where either Tom is an out-and-out Yeerk collaborator or is paired up with a Good Yeerk that explores a similar but less hostile dynamic to #2. Applegate and Grant delve into the Yeerk side of things sparingly, and with good reason. But my god would it have been a ballsy as gently caress move right at the start if, as you go through the books in order and you rotate through each kid's POV, it gets to the final one in the rotation and at the start of their first book you get "Surprise, motherfucker! I'm a Yeerk. Don't tell Jake and Marco "
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# ? Jul 18, 2020 06:55 |
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Maybe being a high schooler is actually fun for the yeerk? In a way anything must be better than being a useless slug.
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# ? Jul 18, 2020 06:56 |
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Avalerion posted:Maybe being a high schooler is actually fun for the yeerk? In a way anything must be better than being a useless slug. I'm sure. I get the impression, though, that Visser Three isn't overly concerned about the happiness of his subordinates. He's not the type of boss to say, "You know, it's Yeerk Christmas Eve. Go home early today."
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# ? Jul 18, 2020 07:09 |
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Avalerion posted:Maybe being a high schooler is actually fun for the yeerk? In a way anything must be better than being a useless slug.
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# ? Jul 18, 2020 09:01 |
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nine-gear crow posted:It's incredibly telling that there is a metric fuckton of Tom POV fan fiction out there and it usually comes in one of three flavors, 1) what a hypotheical post-Yeerk Tom would be like, 2) Tom's struggle against his Yeerk Controller parallel to the Animorphs journey through the series, or 3) speculative pieces where either Tom is an out-and-out Yeerk collaborator or is paired up with a Good Yeerk that explores a similar but less hostile dynamic to #2. I haven't read Applegate's Everworld books, but I remember reading that they had a twist like that, where one of the POV characters was working against the others.
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# ? Jul 18, 2020 15:52 |
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# ? May 24, 2024 23:43 |
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PetraCore posted:Imagine being a yeerk soldier, intelligent and cunning, a full adult with adult responsibilities, expecting to at least get an adult body and hopefully someone interesting or strong.
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# ? Jul 18, 2020 21:34 |