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Shooting Blanks posted:Niche question about spies: A lot of the promotions for spies are "Can perform X action as if this unit were 2 levels higher." If I have a max level spy (3) with one or more of those promotions, does that spy have a synthetic level of 5 for those actions? Or is there a hard cap on any action at level 3 and the promotions are just wasted? Ace Driver (+4 levels to escape) suggests that there is not a hard cap at level 3 but I believe contested operations max out at 90% anyway Yestermoment posted:I finally committed to getting the game for the Switch. First game, I'm in the corner of the map with Cleopatra and Caesar around me. After about.... 15 turns? They decided to declare war on me for no discernible reason beyond me not being their government (merch repub) and was brutally owned because I never build militaries. RIP me. The AI will attack you if they think you're weak unless you make an effort to suck up to them (send delegation the turn you meet, trade with them, try and declare friendship). But on higher difficulties meeting an aggressive AI like Trajan is an immediate signal to start building slingers and researching archery
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Jul 18, 2020 15:31
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Blasmeister posted:Speaking of spies how does the great work heist one actually work, because I have never once seen a great work that can be stolen even when the civ in question has dozens of them viewable in the trade screen In all of my games they get moved around constantly before my spy has a chance to complete its timer. Genuinely frustrating.
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Jul 18, 2020 16:45
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Around when should I be able to catch up to the AI in science if I'm playing an average civ with no science boosts (like I'm not Korea or something)? On Deity I find myself able to mostly keep up and win fights just because of how braindead they are but like in my current game I'm 12 techs behind Rome now and they are still generating about 1.8x my science and I have a campus in nearly every city and I'm not really sure like what else I could have done to get more science. It's possible I could still win a war just because the AI seems to really not make or use airplanes very well in my experience, but I might just start over again. I'm still like 800 score to their 1300 so that seems like a lot to make up. Playing as Mapuche so I assume I should be going for domination but I've only been able to conquer one other civ so far.
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Jul 18, 2020 16:55
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Stefan Prodan posted:Around when should I be able to catch up to the AI in science if I'm playing an average civ with no science boosts (like I'm not Korea or something)? The policy cards that increase your science output are really important. If you're not using those, definitely start. Also, remember if you wage war on Rome and he doesn't manage to fight off your planes, then every city with a campus you take is a science boost for you AND a science loss for him. Go for it.
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Jul 18, 2020 17:23
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showbiz_liz posted:The policy cards that increase your science output are really important. If you're not using those, definitely start. Yeah I use those, the campus adjacency one and the rationality one I've had on pretty much the whole game oh yeah and uhh are siege support units currently bugged? KillGoldfish messaged me last night saying they didn't seem to do anything for him and I tested it out and yeah they did not appear to do anything for me either, I tried to attack a city state with a battering ram and warriors and they continued to just bash their heads on the wall instead of damaging the city directly, but I definitely remember them working at some point also on a related question do melee cavalry count as "melee" for the purposes of using siege support units Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jul 18, 2020 |
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Jul 18, 2020 17:27
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heavy and light cavalry do not benefit from battering rams or siege towers, only melee and anti-cav. they did in vanilla but that was nerfed at some point. what level of walls does the city state have? bettering rams are only effective against ancient walls. this was also changed from vanilla. i'd say you should be typically catching up to deity ai in science and culture per turn by turn 110-120 ish, around when you unlock tier 2 governments. to get more science target as many of the tech and civic boosts as possible. these are worth 40% of the cost each and are a huge source of early progression. getting pingala with connoisseur then researcher in you most populous city early is also a big chunk of science. the policy cards are important, but to get the full effect of them you need to be getting +3 adjacency districts and getting city population up to 10. e - ignore score. it is meaningless. HappyCamperGL fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jul 18, 2020 |
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Jul 18, 2020 19:25
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Stefan Prodan posted:Yeah I use those, the campus adjacency one and the rationality one I've had on pretty much the whole game Battering rams don't let you skip the wall, it's just that normally attacking against walls comes with a penalty so they do very little damage, and the battering ram removes that penalty. So basically it lets melee/anti-cav damage through the walls a lot faster than normal. They also only work on ancient walls Siege towers let your melee/anti-cav units skip over the walls and go right on to damaging the city's health bar. They only work on ancient and medieval walls, but not rennaisance
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Jul 18, 2020 19:47
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Another question: when you get good at this, what % games are beatable on Deity? Can the better streamers beat every game or are there some where you just get hosed? I've been trying to learn more militaristic approaches and man it is hard as poo poo to wage any sort of war on deity that isn't defensive I can win as long as someone else declares war on me, breaks their own poo poo against my walls trying to invade me, and then I invade back, but I'm like never successful invading them because by the time I get there they're fielding something a tech above me and I just get my dick slapped Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jul 18, 2020 |
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Jul 18, 2020 22:02
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Stefan Prodan posted:Another question: when you get good at this, what % games are beatable on Deity? Sometimes the streamers just lose, and I know Game Mechanic will fish for good and/or interesting starts at least sometimes. And sometimes on deity when you're born dead and that's all there is to it.
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Jul 18, 2020 23:46
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Stefan Prodan posted:Another question: when you get good at this, what % games are beatable on Deity? idk, most games are probably winnable if you want to grind it out. you can still get dealt a really lovely flat/tundra/snow start, or just get boxed in by some aggressive civs. and even good players still make mistakes, they're good because they learn from those mistakes. most streamers also re-roll for good map seeds, or will set-up their games to be conducive to whatever they want to do. like a high sea level/archipelago map for norway. because they want to make videos that are fun and people want to watch; which slow, grindy 300+ turn games that don't show off a civs unique abilities probably aren't. to wage an offensive early war on deity beeline an encampment or try and get a great general. getting a road to your target is also helpful. using policy cars/pantheons to boost unit production the window before the ai can rush walls/crossbows can be very tight.
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Jul 19, 2020 00:04
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Speaking of culture: I’m endgame very nearly bordering on a culture victory with Maori on King difficulty, huge map; I have 2800 tourism to Cleopatra’s 300. But she just slotted in the “music censorship” card so I can’t bomb her with rock bands any more. How do I win?
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Jul 19, 2020 00:27
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kingcobweb posted:Speaking of culture: I’m endgame very nearly bordering on a culture victory with Maori on King difficulty, huge map; I have 2800 tourism to Cleopatra’s 300. But she just slotted in the “music censorship” card so I can’t bomb her with rock bands any more. How do I win? Shift+enter a bunch of times
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Jul 19, 2020 00:32
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kingcobweb posted:Speaking of culture: I’m endgame very nearly bordering on a culture victory with Maori on King difficulty, huge map; I have 2800 tourism to Cleopatra’s 300. But she just slotted in the “music censorship” card so I can’t bomb her with rock bands any more. How do I win? nukes, egypt can't resist your cultural pressure if everyone is dead
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Jul 19, 2020 00:35
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So like how do you win domination on continents without running into huge loyalty problems even if you can capture a far away city?
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Jul 19, 2020 01:47
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I just Raze the cities so I don't have to worry about it unless installing a governor there would solve it. Means you have to take out some side cities before the capital since you're forced to keep that one.
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Jul 19, 2020 02:02
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Stefan Prodan posted:So like how do you win domination on continents without running into huge loyalty problems even if you can capture a far away city?
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Jul 19, 2020 02:04
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Stefan Prodan posted:So like how do you win domination on continents without running into huge loyalty problems even if you can capture a far away city? Aircraft carriers + melee ships, capture at least 2 neighboring coastal cities at once or nearly at once. Then use those cities as an anchor to expand into the continent.
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Jul 19, 2020 02:05
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Oh yeah ok i basically never think to raze cities, maybe that's a mistake I literally forgot that was even an option
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Jul 19, 2020 02:05
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I'm not really a big fan of the entire Loyalty system in Civ 6. It feels like the equivalent of having a referee overseeing a game of soccer at a schoolyard during recess. I think this system was made as a response to people complaining about the AI forward settling really terrible cities, but I always thought that presence should be established more naturally in-game with military projection and culture.
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Jul 19, 2020 02:08
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So, having watched the Potato McWhiskey video on the upcoming Frontier Pass release, I through the Secret Societies mechanics looked rather interesting until loving Vampires?!?!? Really???
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Jul 19, 2020 03:41
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I always raise AI cities because they're all so claustrophobically close together that I can't handle the idea of keeping them.
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Jul 19, 2020 08:33
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Crazy Ted posted:So, having watched the Potato McWhiskey video on the upcoming Frontier Pass release, I through the Secret Societies mechanics looked rather interesting until loving Vampires?!?!? Really??? You were fine with Ley Lines and Cthulhu cultists, but drew the line at Vampires? The theme of the new frontier pass’ game modes seems to be silly or outrageous variations. The secret societies don’t seem more out there than climate change causing comets to rain from the sky.
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Jul 19, 2020 10:00
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Vampires work perfectly as a secret society, all masquerade and stuff. Of course given firaxis track record it's going to be unbalanced and sparkling crap until they maybe patch it next year. 
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Jul 19, 2020 10:27
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The only flaw I see with the vampires and Cthulhu cultists is that they're not part of a full Fall from Heaven 2 remake.
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Jul 19, 2020 10:35
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I didn't buy the pass because Apocalypse mode didn't really do much for me and there were too many other unknowns. This seems a hell of a lot more interesting, and while I'm going to wait and see how broken/unplayable it is this will probably be a purchase for me next weekend.
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Jul 19, 2020 10:46
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Shooting Blanks posted:I didn't buy the pass because Apocalypse mode didn't really do much for me and there were too many other unknowns. This seems a hell of a lot more interesting, and while I'm going to wait and see how broken/unplayable it is this will probably be a purchase for me next weekend. I was briefly locked out of the expansion content on my Switch, and while I waited for tech support to tell me how to fix the issue, I played every game with disasters set to 4 because I missed apocalypse mode. BTW if any Switch users have problems with the DLC, a potential fix is to delete the software off your console and then when you go into the estore to redownload, *press the L button as you select "Redownload,"* and it will reinstall just the base game and then you can go into the store and reinstall the DLC manually.
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Jul 19, 2020 13:17
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Russia + Dance of the Aurora + Work Ethic + Torres del Paine in the middle of the tundra + 100% holy site adjacency policy card = INSANE PRODUCTION. Gonna build all the wonders
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Jul 19, 2020 13:52
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fridge corn posted:Russia + Dance of the Aurora + Work Ethic + Torres del Paine in the middle of the tundra + 100% holy site adjacency policy card = INSANE PRODUCTION. Gonna build all the wonders Oh drat I never thought to combine one of the holy site adjacency pantheons with Work Ethic, what a good idea. If I fail my current attempt to win with Jayavarman I'll definitely try that. (Thanks to quarantine I am making unsettling amounts of progress toward winning with every civ.)
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Jul 19, 2020 14:28
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I almost always go with work ethic and meeting houses. I also call my religions things like Marxism or Communism.
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Jul 19, 2020 14:58
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Organic Lube User posted:I almost always go with work ethic and meeting houses. I also call my religions things like Marxism or Communism. A long time ago I was playing this game high and I saw the little crab icon you can pick and I started a religion called Crabsolutely. Wound up blanketing the world with Crabsolutely and cracking myself up at the stupid name every time I converted a city. Now I use that name and icon about half the time I found a religion.
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Jul 19, 2020 15:27
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Having a lot of fun with a Chandragupta game. I have to be kind of goosed into playing for Domination victories, but this has been a fun one. Varus + Arthashastra + Wars Of Territorial Expansion = 10-turn elephant tsunamis I just got Gunpowder, so I think the Varus are approaching the end of the usefulness and I'll have to pick up the wars again once they become tanks. Also going to try and get the achievement for using nukes.
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Jul 19, 2020 15:33
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Chad Sexington posted:Having a lot of fun with a Chandragupta game. I have to be kind of goosed into playing for Domination victories, but this has been a fun one. Yeah it's hard for me to be a straight up warmonger. I usually wind up going for cultural victories when I can.
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Jul 19, 2020 15:51
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Taear posted:I always raise AI cities because they're all so claustrophobically close together that I can't handle the idea of keeping them. raze in 5, capture in 6. there's no penalty for going ics as gently caress aside from having to juggle loyalty initially, and then later having to manage 100 cities Poil posted:Vampires work perfectly as a secret society, all masquerade and stuff. Of course given firaxis track record it's going to be unbalanced and sparkling crap until they maybe patch it next year. Civilization VI late spring 2021 patch notes posted:• You can no longer select the vampire faction. This is unintended; its cause its unknown. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jul 19, 2020 |
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Jul 19, 2020 19:10
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So I'm playing my game as Kongo and I was gonna go for a domination victory or maybe science later after trying to conquer my home continent and I was doing ok, going about even or maybe just a tiny bit behind everyone else in science, until I went to the other continent and Seondeok is sitting there with 14 techs ahead of me generating literally triple my science Is this a game-ending condition or is the AI bad enough at managing stuff that it's still possible to pull this out? My only thought is maybe by being able to do some of the crafty industrial zone interactions I can out produce her and come back that way somehow, along with the use of spies?
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Jul 19, 2020 19:25
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The White Dragon posted:raze in 5, capture in 6. there's no penalty for going ics as gently caress aside from having to juggle loyalty initially, and then later having to manage 100 cities There's no penalty, but I hate it. They're all getting razed.
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Jul 19, 2020 19:28
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Stefan Prodan posted:So I'm playing my game as Kongo and I was gonna go for a domination victory or maybe science later after trying to conquer my home continent and I was doing ok, going about even or maybe just a tiny bit behind everyone else in science, until I went to the other continent and Seondeok is sitting there with 14 techs ahead of me generating literally triple my science She'll be way ahead of you on science but probably won't know how to translate that into victory until about turn 400. The only way you'll get domination is to load up some bombers to demolish her capital and have something to conquer it immediately after you've conquered everyone else.
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Jul 19, 2020 20:42
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I played my first game ever as Alexander because I like conquest victories in 4X games and got crushed because, okay, it was my first game. So I did a second game as English Eleanor and steamrolled through everything by loyalty-flipping anything on my borders, until by the end of the game I had my choice of how to win. So I thought, okay, I've got the hang of it now, and started a new game as Alexander, and I'm right back to getting my rear end kicked. Does conquering cities in the game really, really suck, or do I just suck at it? My experience is that by the time I've settled the territory I could initially claim and built up enough of a manufacturing base, any nearby city has walls -- and they certainly build them once the AI sees my troops massing. So I have to roll up with like four siege units and a bunch of regular guys to protect them, spend twenty turns bombarding the city bars down, march one guy in there to claim it, and then do it again. I can do it, but it's a massive grind and it takes so goddamn long. I started a war with my nearest neighbor when I had pikemen and knights, and now I'm still at it and we have tanks and infantry and I've conquered... three cities. It just feels like this is a fuckton of production costs and city planning that isn't going to science, so I start lagging behind, which is murder because higher number = better than, and I'm sure as hell not getting enough out of it. As far as I can tell, battering rams/siege towers don't do a god damned thing; even with them, throwing melee units at cities is a meatgrinder. It seems like conquering cities is only feasible before walls get invented and after Giant Death Robots get their "gently caress your cities" upgrades, and for 90% of the game it's pointless. What am I doing wrong? Right now I just want to go back to Eleanor and her game of "I have art, my borders are acid". Conquering cities was easy that way.
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Jul 19, 2020 21:30
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CapnAndy posted:I played my first game ever as Alexander because I like conquest victories in 4X games and got crushed because, okay, it was my first game. So I did a second game as English Eleanor and steamrolled through everything by loyalty-flipping anything on my borders, until by the end of the game I had my choice of how to win. So I thought, okay, I've got the hang of it now, and started a new game as Alexander, and I'm right back to getting my rear end kicked. Does conquering cities in the game really, really suck, or do I just suck at it? Catapults will get you much farther than battering rams and siege towers. It shouldn't take you 20 turns to knock down walls. Are you besieging the cities? (Surrounding them with a zone of control.) That stops the healing and makes knocking them down go faster. Alexander is actually kitted out to address exactly the problems you mention. No war weariness, first of all. Hellenistic Fusion gives you bursts of science and culture for every district in cities you conquer. You straight up heal all your mans if you conquer a wonder. Basilikoi Paides give you science as you turn out dudes. The Classical UU Hypaspist give you bonus attack when besieging. Hetairoi aren't that great, but you get them the same time as Hypaspist and they can be strong as gently caress if you have some great generals. How early are you attacking? Alexander is most beastly in Classical, but you should have your targets picked out in Ancient if you can.
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Jul 19, 2020 22:37
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Chad Sexington posted:Catapults will get you much farther than battering rams and siege towers. It shouldn't take you 20 turns to knock down walls. Are you besieging the cities? (Surrounding them with a zone of control.) That stops the healing and makes knocking them down go faster.
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Jul 20, 2020 00:58
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Battering Rams are better than catapults which are much better than siege towers which are worthless. Catapults become much better if you can do tricks where you move plus fire. Make sure you get a great general for extra strength and movement and preserve your units. A crossbowman prompted for extra shot to a better than 3 because space is at a premium with 1 unit per turn. I like to leave my conquering to respond to wars on me. Use their aggression to fight on your territory with city fire and bonus healing making it 10x easier to kill their army. After a breaking point the ai will retreat that’s when you chase them down. Heal up, promote, and surround cities near your borders, bring your siege units in, and have a few scouts around to take city fire. With a siege and a bartering ram you can often take cities with just swordsmen. Then move a governor heal and press the advantage. If a ranged unit is holed up in a city with walls try using a great general to draw him out (they can’t die they just go to a nearby city). If you attack first things are harder and you generally want to engage their army away from city centers and take advantage of terrain to get ranged shots in. You shouldn’t be trying to take cities if a bunch of units are around it because The city will wear you down with attrition from its own fire and likely a ranged unit while you hammer yourself into enemies.
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Jul 20, 2020 01:23
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