|
Regarding Dresden's winter mantle, did it seem to anyone else that his strength was all over the place? We see him jog with a 220lbs weight vest and flip a pickup truck on its side, but then it sounds like he's not sure he can hold on when he's in the chute and has a hard time pulling himself up when he's carrying Thomas. He mentions that he's as strong as someone of his size can be, but the weight vest thing sounds like it would put him in supernatural territory. Thomas: For such a short book it feels like Butcher could have maybe included at least one page where Harry questioned what really happened with Thomas? He immediately discarded any possibility that Thomas didn't try to assassinate the guy. There could have been magic involved, or some kind of supernatural trickery. I mean, just a few chapters before we saw Ebenezar walk though all the Svartalf defenses because he was too busy to bother with their identification process. The instant Dresden is shown Thomas and told that he tried to assassinate Etri he's like "Oh drat what a dumb thing for my brother to have done." I thought it was going to mirror the scene of him and Murphy being shown the pictures by the internal affairs people and being like "hmm could be anyone!" but I guess the svartalves are trustworthy enough that he immediately agreed that this is what happened. I think the first time he actually questions why Thomas would have dome something like that is when he speaks to Lara. Also, the trailer that came out in march shows mostly scenes from Peace Talks but there is one scene with Marcone that I am assuming is from Battle Ground?
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2020 19:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 21:05 |
|
|
I really liked the story. The escalation, the character development. Karrin refuses to stop being a bad bitch and it's great. Butters is the most obvious Mary Sue in the world but I will plug my ears and sing showtunes if anyone has bad things to say about him. But am I the only one that thinks Butcher's editor was asleep at the wheel on this one? This far into the series, I'm well used to the copy/pasted character intros, hell my intro to the series was Small Favor, I understand the necessity in a series. But when Harry goes to visit Lara at the Chateau, Butcher apparently forgot that this wasn't the first time we'd seen her and proceeds to give her a second copy/pasted intro. And some characters/situations get barely a sentence's worth of explanation as if we've all been reading along together for a dozen and a half books, like the Knights of the Cross, important background events like what happened to the Reds, Nemesis, Bob gets talked about but never explained. Oh, and then entirely new characters get literally nothing, but slide in like we know exactly who they are and how they operate. Like King Corb. Seriously just rolls up and Harry's all, "Oh for sure, that's the King of this shadowy unknown faction that we've known pretty much nothing about until this point and IN A DRAMATIC TWIST, here's his even more awesome and powerful boss, which has absolutely no dramatic effect because King Corb is a completely unknown quantity. Conjuritis is the stupidest most unnecessary monkey cheese poo poo, and in back-to-back chapters he uses the exact same The Blob reference. I got completely taken out of the story several times over lovely editing issues that I would not have expected this far into the dude's career. Ok now I want to speculate. We never really got the payoff of McCoy's prophetic "Someone's going to stab you in the back." warning, and I have a really strong hunch I know who it's going to be. I think a recurring member of the cast has been infected by Nemesis. I think it is (lots of extra spacing in this spoiler) going to end up being Justine. As for my reasoning, Once the story gets properly set into motion, Thomas notably only has two lines, both of them an attempt to say Justine's name to Harry, with no context at all. He's no answering a question, and he can barely speak, let alone make a coherent statement, and Harry assumes that Thomas wants her taken care of. This seems like a classic Butcher bait-and-switch where Thomas is actually trying to WARN Harry about Justine. And some questions: I'm working on my second, slower read-through now, but when exactly did Carlos manage to Tag Harry with the ink he used to track him? Does it seem to anyone else that McCoy's hate-on for the White sort of came out of nowhere? Like in the past, he's obviously had a standard amount of "gently caress those guys" that a senior member of the White Council would have for pretty much anything or anyone outside of the council, but this was just like, drat son. Mr. Bad Guy fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jul 18, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2020 19:55
|
|
|
Mr. Bad Guy posted:Does it seem to anyone else that McCoy's hate-on for the White sort of came out of nowhere? Like in the past, he's obviously had a standard amount of "gently caress those guys" that a senior member of the White Council would have for pretty much anything or anyone outside of the council, but this was just like, drat son. Remember that his daughter died after a liaison with a white court lord
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2020 22:06
|
|
|
Not to mention the rumors of the same thing happening to his grandson, who never has a good reason why it isn't happening.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2020 22:36
|
|
|
My point was that McCoy has talked about/interacted with Thomas/The White Court in general before, and it wasn't cranked up to 11 like it is now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2020 22:46
|
|
|
The most frustrating thing about PEACE TALKS is Harry's refusal to communicate with people. Many conflicts could have been avoided if he had been honest with McCoy or Carlos. I don't understand why writers still employ this trope. It's so tried. I WANT TO TELL HIM THE TRUTH BUT WHAT IF IT HURTS HIM????? My other gripe is that this should have not been a standalone book. It felt like it didn't start going until Ethniu appears.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2020 22:56
|
|
|
Mr. Bad Guy posted:My point was that McCoy has talked about/interacted with Thomas/The White Court in general before, and it wasn't cranked up to 11 like it is now. This is for sure true, and it seemed to come out of nowhere with me too, but I think it starts when he sees his great-granddaughter in the company of a literal incubus, and then his grandson is willing to throw his entire life away for the same one shortly after.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2020 23:11
|
|
|
mastajake posted:This is for sure true, and it seemed to come out of nowhere with me too, but I think it starts when he sees his great-granddaughter in the company of a literal incubus, and then his grandson is willing to throw his entire life away for the same one shortly after. Yeah, that's what I think too. He didn't like Dresden hanging around with him, but Dresden's an adult and can make his own choices even if they're bad ones. It's when he saw that Maggie was around Thomas that his hatred got cranked up to 11. I mean, his daughter had been killed by Lord Raith. It's not surprising that seeing Raith's son hanging out around his granddaughter drove him over the edge.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2020 23:46
|
|
|
Mr. Bad Guy posted:I think it is (lots of extra spacing in this spoiler) going to end up being Justine. Yeah, this is exactly what I thought after I finished. Also agree on the editing. Did the audio since I commute 2 hrs a day, and it just seemed a bit off. From repeated intros, to some sections that seemed to jump awkwardly as if they’d been cut from somewhere else and accidentally pasted and no one noticed. Overall not sure how I feel about this one. Obviously it’s not meant as a self-contained story, which I find a bit disappointing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2020 23:48
|
|
|
My theory is that a lot of the editing problems happened because of the book split which lead to book 1 being padded with a bunch of things (which end up being nonsensical) and not properly edited. Alternatively, Butcher should steal some of Sanderson's beta-readers.
Xtanstic fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jul 19, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 04:46
|
|
|
Mr. Bad Guy posted:
Handshake
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 04:56
|
|
|
Peace talks sounds bad...we can just call it bad. No need to hedge. Maybe battle will be better. I’m glad I didn’t preorder and am just library holding it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 07:12
|
|
|
Ither posted:The most frustrating thing about PEACE TALKS is This is exactly how felt through most of the book. The stuff McCoy at least felt vaguely justified, but the confrontation with Carlos and the other Wardens felt so forced. I was also really annoyed by Harry never spending any real time worrying about why Thomas did what he did, especially since his actions put Maggie at risk. . This really felt like some of Butcher's worst writing to me. Hopefully the second half makes up for a lot of it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 07:18
|
|
|
Carlos makes more sense given his run in with Molly. From his view, if she was changed to that degree then who's to say Harry hasn't.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 08:05
|
|
|
yeah the problem with the whole short story thing is that if you haven't read all the graphic novels and extended universe tv tie-ins then you don't know when something is a hook that's supposed to get explained later in the book vs something that every other reader knows - the carlos thing is an example of that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 08:17
|
|
|
Avalerion posted:Carlos makes more sense given his run in with Molly. From his view, if she was changed to that degree then who's to say Harry hasn't. I haven't read the short stories, but Carlos's actions and attitudes made sense. Afterall, the Harry might be a monster thing has been a theme for a while now. What bothered me was Harry basically doing everything possible to look guilty as hell during the encounter on the road after leaving Lara's. As someone else said earlier a lot of future grief would have been avoided if he'd said something like "Yes, with my girlfriend!" And then stomping off instead of just launching into "How dare you!" and providing no explanation for anything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 08:43
|
|
|
I just finished Peace Talks today, and I definitely do agree with the theory that Thomas was trying to WARN Harry about Justine, not ask him to take care of her. The million dollar question is Why? Either it was a sudden development, or she's been running the ultimate long con which is even more impressive considering that her and Thomas have the True Love thing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 17:37
|
|
|
Speaking of True Love, the fact that they literally can't touch each other without hurting each other means Thomas saying they were 'careful' about not getting her pregnant is one hell of an understatement.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 18:09
|
|
|
CHaKKaWaKka posted:Speaking of True Love, the fact that they literally can't touch each other without hurting each other means Thomas saying they were 'careful' about not getting her pregnant is one hell of an understatement. They solved this problem with threesomes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 18:13
|
|
|
CHaKKaWaKka posted:Speaking of True Love, the fact that they literally can't touch each other without hurting each other means Thomas saying they were 'careful' about not getting her pregnant is one hell of an understatement. I thought that only applied to feeding off of her, though that does raise the question of what's up with the baby, since Thomas said the baby would be feeding off of her constantly, and feeding off of her isn't supposed to be doable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 18:22
|
|
|
the_steve posted:I thought that only applied to feeding off of her, though that does raise the question of what's up with the baby, since Thomas said the baby would be feeding off of her constantly, and feeding off of her isn't supposed to be doable. There's a moment in the book where Harry bumps his elbow against Lara and it hurts her and she goes "Oh? Good for you!" when she realizes what that means about him and Murphy. I'm pretty sure True Love means that White Court vampires can't touch you without getting hurt.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 18:29
|
|
|
CHaKKaWaKka posted:There's a moment in the book where Harry bumps his elbow against Lara and it hurts her and she goes "Oh? Good for you!" when she realizes what that means about him and Murphy. I'm pretty sure True Love means that White Court vampires can't touch you without getting hurt.  Forgot about that part.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 18:40
|
|
|
CHaKKaWaKka posted:There's a moment in the book where Harry bumps his elbow against Lara and it hurts her and she goes "Oh? Good for you!" when she realizes what that means about him and Murphy. I'm pretty sure True Love means that White Court vampires can't touch you without getting hurt. It's amorphous, but that's not precisely true. They can't feed on that person, but feeding isn't always sexual and isn't always voluntary for the vampire in question.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 22:18
|
|
|
It could also mean that maybe something has changed and they don't have the True Love protection anymore, which could lead into Justine being the bad guy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 22:47
|
|
|
Remember Even Hand? I don't think Justine came back from the Fomor without a passenger in her head.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2020 23:01
|
|
|
CHaKKaWaKka posted:There's a moment in the book where Harry bumps his elbow against Lara and it hurts her and she goes "Oh? Good for you!" when she realizes what that means about him and Murphy. I'm pretty sure True Love means that White Court vampires can't touch you without getting hurt. When "classic" White Court Vamps (Lara's folk) have sex, they feed. It's pretty well automatic. If someone has had sex with someone who Truly Loves them they're protected from White Court vamps that feed on lust - even to the point that if White Court vamps touch they suffer pain/burns. The protection lasts until the protectee has sex with someone who does not Truly Love them. Basically, Justine would have sex with some other woman to remove the True Love protection, then she, Thomas and the other woman would have sex, which let Thomas feed lightly from both of them and the sex with Thomas would restore the True Love protection to Justine. The upshot of all this is that Justine gets protected because she has sex with Thomas, who Truly Loves her. While we can make some assumptions here, all we really know is that Thomas Truly Loves Justine, but we really don't precisely know Justine's feelings because we don't know if White Court vamps like Thomas can actually receive True Love's protection, though we do know that they can feed on each, as witness Lara with her father and later, cousin.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 03:54
|
|
|
CHaKKaWaKka posted:Speaking of True Love, the fact that they literally can't touch each other without hurting each other means Thomas saying they were 'careful' about not getting her pregnant is one hell of an understatement. Could have sworn that protection was lost when he was brutally tortured by the nagloshi in Turn Coat, and the threesums were just a way to feed without being excessive on any single individual woman so Thomas doesn't have to feel bad about making them invalids or outright dead.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 04:11
|
|
|
M_Gargantua posted:Could have sworn that protection was lost when he was brutally tortured by the nagloshi in Turn Coat, and the threesums were just a way to feed without being excessive on any single individual woman so Thomas doesn't have to feel bad about making them invalids or outright dead. No, explicity the reason for the threesomes is that when they have sex the protection renews and then Thomas has sex with someone else to break it again because rules lawyering is how you vampire I guess. They switch partners constantly to avoid injuring anyone too much.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 05:17
|
|
|
Mr. Bad Guy posted:My point was that McCoy has talked about/interacted with Thomas/The White Court in general before, and it wasn't cranked up to 11 like it is now. When he meets White Court Vampires in Turn Coat, the first words out of his mouth are a death threat towards Lara Raith for slapping Harry. When they are forced to work together and she doesn't do exactly as he says, Eb immobilizes her with magic, and only lets her go when Harry vouches for her. Also, back in Blood Rites, he bitterly admits that he tried multiple times to kill Lord Raith, but had to stop since the bastard is immune to magic, and you can just feel the anger and sadness oozing off him. Eb absolutely hates the White Court, but has been able to keep it under control. Now he sees his grandson throwing away everything for the sake of a White Court Vampire, and not just any White Court Vampire, but the son of his daughter's murderer. Then while under insane amount of pressure, he learns that in addition to murdering his daughter, Raith forced her to bear his spawn before that. As a result, he just snaps. Mind, Harry really should have told him the truth a long time ago, under non-critical circumstances.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 08:33
|
|
|
rndmnmbr posted:Remember Even Hand? I don't think Justine came back from the Fomor without a passenger in her head. It is so extremely stupid to out possible plot points like this in non mainline books The mind boggles at how fuckin dumb you'd have to be to have this be true because it would come out of nowhere to like 99% of readers
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 10:21
|
|
|
Ramadu posted:It is so extremely stupid to out possible plot points like this in non mainline books Definitely would for me. I mean I assume some kind of fuckery like this, but I'd have no god damned idea how it happened. There was an early book where a problem at Will and Georgia's wedding was mentioned and I'm like, when the gently caress was that? (some short story it turns out)
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 10:43
|
|
|
rndmnmbr posted:Remember Even Hand? I don't think Justine came back from the Fomor without a passenger in her head. Is this from Brief Cases, because I don’t recognize this. If it is, yeah it’s not a great idea to do it like that. Refresh my memory, where is Bob these days? Missed him in this one.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 11:33
|
|
|
Iacen posted:Is this from Brief Cases, because I don’t recognize this. I think he's still in Butters' possession, but he doesn't actually make an appearance in Peace Talks, he's just mentioned once or twice when Harry is talking about a potion he makes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 12:53
|
|
|
Putting more thought into the mechanics of the White Court and various examples of bad writing ITT than the author and editors of the books in question. In other news, Charles Stross talking about teletubbies and other weird childhood TV show traumas being featured in the next book he's writing has me genuinely scared to read it now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 13:05
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:No, explicity the reason for the threesomes is that when they have sex the protection renews and then Thomas has sex with someone else to break it again because rules lawyering is how you vampire I guess. They switch partners constantly to avoid injuring anyone too much. No, Justine has sex with someone else, because she's the one under the protection. If Thomas has the protection it's either irrelevant or he burns to ash. Justine having the protection means he can't touch her without getting second or third degree burns. So, Justine has sex with another woman and that forfeits the protection. Then Thomas can have sex with both of them so he can feed and not get severely burned. biracial bear for uncut posted:In other news, Charles Stross talking about teletubbies and other weird childhood TV show traumas being featured in the next book he's writing has me genuinely Fixed that for you
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 13:55
|
|
|
I finished Peace Talks. It was ok. Not nearly as good Skin Game, or maybe my tastes have involved in 6 years. It definitely felt like half a book. Also I don't know why this bugs me but he used the phrase 'tout de suite' several times a couple chapters in a row, and it just felt badly edited. In non Dresden matters, I'm gonna be honest, it didn't really scratch my urban fantasy itch. Is the October Daye series worth checking out for eight bucks for the first book? I've really liked everything I've read by Seanan McGuire, read the entire Wayward Children series in a week in February, and just finished Middlegame last weekend (which was a drat good book).
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 14:13
|
|
|
I've been kinda departing from "Urban" fantasy and backtracking through other stuff, myself. After binging the Murderbot Diaries I've gone back and started reading the regular fantasy books Martha Wells wrote (the Raksura books) and they're cheap fun.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 14:26
|
|
|
Ither posted:The most frustrating thing about PEACE TALKS is Especially since Harry calls out Molly for not talking to her parents about being the Winter Lady.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 16:27
|
|
|
HisMajestyBOB posted:Especially since Harry calls out Molly for not talking to her parents about being the Winter Lady. Plus he had no problem telling the svartelves that he was with his girlfriend when the assassination attempt went down. I mean, I get that there's a difference between "I was with my girlfriend" and "I was having sex with my girlfriend", plus the anger over the invasion of privacy, especially since they all but accused him of sleeping with Lara, especially since his old-school sense of chivalry/chauvinism probably sees it as a sleight against Murphy as well, but as was said, all he had to do was say "Yeah, I was with Murphy." and it would have taken a lot of heat out of the equation.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 16:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 21:05 |
|
|
Dramatika posted:In non Dresden matters, I'm gonna be honest, it didn't really scratch my urban fantasy itch. Is the October Daye series worth checking out for eight bucks for the first book? I've really liked everything I've read by Seanan McGuire, read the entire Wayward Children series in a week in February, and just finished Middlegame last weekend (which was a drat good book). If you've liked everything else you've read of hers, you'll probably like October Daye too. It's my current favorite UF, and I love her take on faerie. But you can regularly find the 1st book digitally for $2.99. I don't know that I'd pay more than that for the first book of a series, especially when I'm not sure if I'd like it or not.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 17:43
|
|
