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Beachcomber posted:Anyone who hasn't read Peace Talks yet, the one thing I wish I'd brushed up on before reading was the short stories, which I only kind of remembered. Bleh. Read 3-15 in 22 days. I shouldn't have taken a break. 100% this. If you haven’t read Bombshells, there’s a whole subplot that won’t make sense.
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Jul 20, 2020 22:18
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Considering the short stories are in two collections instead of spread out with each single story in a multi-author collection, some of which are way out of print, I don't mind having to read them. (Not that I haven't anyways)
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Jul 20, 2020 22:27
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So after the announcement that teenwitches on tiktok were trying to put a magic curse on the moon, probably the funniest loving news item in this shitshow of a year, Schaefer had to write a story about it. http://craigschaeferbooks.com/hex-the-moon
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Jul 21, 2020 00:47
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biracial bear for uncut posted:I've been kinda departing from "Urban" fantasy and backtracking through other stuff, myself. Would you be interested in suburban or semi-rural fantasy? I have a mildly unholy love for Jonathan Maberry's Pine Deep Trilogy. For that matter, his Joe Ledger book may as well be fantasy even if they approach stuff from a "sciency" aspect. As for Peace Talks, very much half a book - and not an especially interesting half. My favorite part of the book was Harry standing around invisible/unnoticed while Gentlemen Johnny Marcone got things organized. I love that character. He's what you might get if John Reese and Carl Elias from Person of Interest somehow had a kid together.
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Jul 21, 2020 01:37
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Everyone posted:As for Peace Talks, very much half a book - and not an especially interesting half. My favorite part of the book was Harry standing around invisible/unnoticed while Gentlemen Johnny Marcone got things organized. I love that character. He's what you might get if John Reese and Carl Elias from Person of Interest somehow had a kid together.
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Jul 21, 2020 02:29
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biracial bear for uncut posted:I've been kinda departing from "Urban" fantasy and backtracking through other stuff, myself. Yeah, I've done the same - I haven't really read any urban fantasy other than Dresden, but this newest one didn't really scratch the itch, and I need some random poo poo to read at the pool. I'm wondering how much of it is Peace Talks not being great, and how much of it is that I've been reading better written books for the past few years. Dresden is fun, but after reading Broken Earth and other Jemisin, Naomi Novik's Spinning Silver/Uprooted, all Nnedi Okorafor's stuff, and some other stuff, this last Dresden just didn't satisfy me at all.
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Jul 21, 2020 02:31
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Peace Talks definitely wasn't my favorite, though I'm not sure how much of that is because it's obviously Part 1 of 2, and how much of it was just less than stellar writing. I dunno, it just seemed like a really short read compared to what I'm used to.
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Jul 21, 2020 02:55
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the_steve posted:Peace Talks definitely wasn't my favorite, though I'm not sure how much of that is because it's obviously Part 1 of 2, and how much of it was just less than stellar writing. I read it in the course of 1 bath.
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Jul 21, 2020 06:16
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Khizan posted:My favorite part was probably when when Lara burned herself brushing up against Harry during the jailbreak and was like "Oh! You and Murphy! Congratulations, it's about time!" That was pretty good, too. Honorable mention goes to Murphy popping the two frag grenades, going "You're move, btich" and Freydis commenting that "Gods, that's hot," before diving for cover. And let's take a moment to note that Butcher has now included a lesbian (or at least a bi character) in his world. Freydis is maybe just little bit "dude's idea of a hot lesbian" but she's also a pretty cool character, too. Also, Martha Liberty has been established as a black woman. So... progress. Baby steps of progress, but still progress, I guess.
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Jul 21, 2020 13:05
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Everyone posted:That was pretty good, too. Honorable mention goes to Murphy popping the two frag grenades, going "You're move, btich" and Freydis commenting that "Gods, that's hot," before diving for cover. And let's take a moment to note that Butcher has now included a lesbian (or at least a bi character) in his world. Freydis is maybe just little bit "dude's idea of a hot lesbian" but she's also a pretty cool character, too. Also, Martha Liberty has been established as a black woman. So... progress. Baby steps of progress, but still progress, I guess. Martha Liberty was introduced expressly as black woman back in Summer Knight.
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Jul 21, 2020 13:59
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Butcher has always had bi characters (as long as they’re hot ladies) or nonwhite characters (as long as they’re magic or foreign or both) it’s just that his Chicago is ridiculously whitebread especially compared to the real one. Dresden Chicago isn’t just white, it’s WASPy.
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Jul 21, 2020 16:29
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Think Dresden is only set in chicago because the town he initially wanted to use was already the setting of another series at that time. Jim prob just googled some landmarks for it.
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Jul 21, 2020 16:36
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Avalerion posted:Think Dresden is only set in chicago because the town he initially wanted to use was already the setting of another series at that time. Jim prob just googled some landmarks for it. That's how Wrigley Field wound up with a parking lot.
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Jul 21, 2020 16:40
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Rygar201 posted:Martha Liberty was introduced expressly as black woman back in Summer Knight. Okay. It's probably been 8-10 years since I've read anything prior to Book 7.
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Jul 22, 2020 01:34
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Beachcomber posted:That's how Wrigley Field wound up with a parking lot. That was actually explained in the short story Free Parking, where Harry and Listens-To-Wind track down a rogue genius loci and convince it to become bound to Wrigley Field where it takes the form of a parking lot. I am obviously joking. OR AM I?!?!?
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Jul 22, 2020 02:27
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docbeard posted:That was actually explained in the short story Free Parking, where Harry and Listens-To-Wind track down a rogue genius loci and convince it to become bound to Wrigley Field where it takes the form of a parking lot. See, I could see something like that happening in the DF world.
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Jul 22, 2020 11:24
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Still a better story than anything that tries to justify keeping the White Court around.
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Jul 22, 2020 11:51
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Still a better story than anything that tries to justify keeping the White Court around. What justifies keeping around China or Russia or North Korea? They're a powerful supernatural "nation" and it would cost a whole lot of blood and death to get rid of them. The gain of doing that isn't worth the cost to most other supernaturals. That's what "justifies" the White Court staying around.
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Jul 22, 2020 17:44
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Well they're not literal rape vampires for one.
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Jul 22, 2020 17:54
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Everyone posted:What justifies keeping around China or Russia or North Korea? They're a powerful supernatural "nation" and it would cost a whole lot of blood and death to get rid of them. The gain of doing that isn't worth the cost to most other supernaturals. That's what "justifies" the White Court staying around.
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Jul 22, 2020 17:54
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We saw what it took to get rid of the Red Court, and they were on par with the White.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:02
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the_steve posted:We saw what it took to get rid of the Red Court, and they were on par with the White. There was literally a scenario where Dresden had an opportunity to exterminate the entire White Court but chose to save them from extermination. You know, that whole confrontation in The Deeps where Dresden could've focused on getting his human allies out of there and left the White Court to be killed.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:06
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biracial bear for uncut posted:There was literally a scenario where Dresden had an opportunity to exterminate the entire White Court but chose to save them from extermination. The entire White Court? Every single one in the world? Or just a bunch of the heavy hitters? I legit don't remember, it's been too long since I've read that one. Also don't forget that the White Court is fighting a shadow war against some weird mental infohazard thing that literally only they know about.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:17
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anilEhilated posted:I'm not sure you noticed but reality isn't fiction created by a single author in complete control. At this point I'm figuring that reality is actually being co-written by Stephen King and Christopher Buckley, but that's beside the point. Within the reality of the Dresden Files world, I'll stand by my previous answer. Outside of it, the White Court is a tool for Butcher to use. Presumably he's not done using that tool. biracial bear for uncut posted:There was literally a scenario where Dresden had an opportunity to exterminate the entire White Court but chose to save them from extermination. Sure, maybe. He could've concentrated on saving the mortals and left the WC to die. Of course, at that time, the White Court was quietly allied with the White Council against the Red Court. Also, let's recall that the danger to the White Court "nobles" there came in the form of Outsiders. Figure that letting "Cthulhuoids" gain their objective isn't good for your long-term survival. Also, betraying even a quiet ally will likely have repercussions with other allies. And as a Warden of the White Court, Harry was absolutely representing his "nation" at that gathering. Beyond all that, the entire White Court wasn't there - just a bunch of their higher-ups. So, the Court itself wouldn't have been exterminated. It'd have gone out of control with "every vamp" for himself. Or, worse, it would have come under the control of someone who had not problem bringing in Outsiders. In Dresden's world one question you always you have ask yourself is "Will doing this end up loving things up even worse?" A lot of times the answer to that question is "Yes." Everyone fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 22, 2020 18:29
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the_steve posted:The entire White Court? Every single one in the world? Or just a bunch of the heavy hitters? "Everyone that matters" as I recall someone describing it. Might have been Lara or could've been one of the other two vamps that fed on despair/whatever. quote:Also don't forget that the White Court is fighting a shadow war against some weird mental infohazard thing that literally only they know about. They're not the only ones doing that. The side story that mentions that specifically states that some wizards of the White Council and various other scattered members of different occult defense organizations are participating, but the nature of that war makes it hard to organize.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:49
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biracial bear for uncut posted:They're not the only ones doing that. The side story that mentions that specifically states that some wizards of the White Council and various other scattered members of different occult defense organizations are participating, but the nature of that war makes it hard to organize. Yeah, I think the actual organisation is the Venatori Somethingorother. Lara and Thomas are involved but I don't recall there being any indication that anyone else from the White Court was. I think Butcher dropped somewhere else that it was all being organized by the Archive, since she would naturally know when all other knowledge of a given target had been erased.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:57
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docbeard posted:Yeah, I think the actual organisation is the Venatori Somethingorother. Lara and Thomas are involved but I don't recall there being any indication that anyone else from the White Court was. It's just "The Venatori" and yeah, that war is the specific reason the Archive exists. It was created to wage that war.
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Jul 22, 2020 19:15
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Mr. Bad Guy posted:I'm working on my second, slower read-through now, but when exactly did Carlos manage to Tag Harry with the ink he used to track him? Beachcomber posted:Handshake Ok, I've finally had time to go back and check. The description of where the mark is does indeed make it sound like it was done during a handshake. This handshake didn't happen. Carlos' appearance in chapter 1 is his only screentime before the scene outside of Chateau Raithe. He gives Harry a verbal greeting, and a fist-bump when he departs. How are you going to have a character act sneaky under the guise of a handshake, but forget to actually have them shake hands? loving amateur hour. Mr. Bad Guy fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 22, 2020 19:26
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Mr. Bad Guy posted:Ok, I've finally had time to go back and check. The description of where the mark is does indeed make it sound like it was done during a handshake. The only way that works is if he had wet ink on one of his knuckles and Harry just never washes his loving hands after the fist bump. And even then that's sketchy as hell.
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Jul 22, 2020 19:29
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biracial bear for uncut posted:The only way that works is if he had wet ink on one of his knuckles and Harry just never washes his loving hands after the fist bump. And even then that's sketchy as hell. That's my point, it's an idiotic oversight by Butcher and his editor. One of many. Unless this turns out to be Nemesisian 4th-dimension chess, the entire premise doesn't work. Carlos explicitly shows that he had ink on his own pinky, which wouldn't even be in the right position to tag Harry's wrist opposite his thumb anyways, unless they did a Spartan-style forearm grab.
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Jul 22, 2020 19:36
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N'thing the editing complaints... aside from the "remake of The Blob" twice in four pages there was also Lara saying "we can always choose to use the Hunger, but can't always choose to not use it" two different times, and Harry reacting like this was a new insight both times, Harry saying about 4 times in one sequence that Lara made him want to beat his chest like Tarzan, and for one sentence Butters is sparring with Santa instead of Sanya. I enjoyed the book but it felt like a draft that got published by accident. I re-read Cold Days and Skin Game because I'd forgotten basically everything happening, and have to say that I'm still pretty interested in the plot but for the most part just don't really like the characters, Harry especially - why is he just such a persistent dick all the time for no apparent reason? Are we supposed to think he's awesome because he's too cool for everyone he talks to, or whatever? Am I forgetting some point when Marcone (who incidentally I have never been able to picture any way other than Fat Tony) actually did something... bad? Like he seems like a professional dude that Dresden is always going "grr I hate him!", even though we (to my recollection) never see him be villainous. Is it just because he "does crimes"? Even Mab, we're always hearing about how bad she is and stuff but basically (like Marcone!) she's always just putting up with Dresden's poo poo and letting him slide.
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Jul 22, 2020 20:24
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thumper57 posted:Am I forgetting some point when Marcone (who incidentally I have never been able to picture any way other than Fat Tony) actually did something... bad? Like he seems like a professional dude that Dresden is always going "grr I hate him!", even though we (to my recollection) never see him be villainous. Is it just because he "does crimes"? That's been a series-long complaint about Marcone, you're on the same page as everyone else. As for Mab, I've never had a problem with the nebulous nature of her antagonism. She (and most beings in her metaphysical weight class) is more like a force of nature than an actual character. She is what she is (cold, merciless, pragmatic, etc) and she reacts to things the way she reacts to things. Harry "gets" her and takes care to couch everything he says and does to/for her in that context so as to skirt consequences. Until he fails to make good on something and gets got, which he also understands is A Thing about his current line of employment.
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Jul 22, 2020 20:50
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thumper57 posted:Am I forgetting some point when Marcone (who incidentally I have never been able to picture any way other than Fat Tony) actually did something... bad? Like he seems like a professional dude that Dresden is always going "grr I hate him!", even though we (to my recollection) never see him be villainous. Is it just because he "does crimes"? Taking it a bit to reality again, I've never personally witnessed Vladimir Putin poison someone with Polonium or Kim Jung Un order somebody executed, but I have zero trouble picturing either of those people doing either of those things and as such consider both of them to be "bad guys." Marcone basically runs organized crime in Chicago. He runs drugs, prostitution, loan-sharking, protection, etc. The fact that we have yet to see him sell a dime bag to somebody, "pimp-slap" a hooker, break a guy's arm for not repaying a loan or burn down somebody's store for not pay protection does not make him a good guy. He's still a bad guy. It's just that in the Dresden Files world there are degrees of bad guy, some much worse than others. Compared to most ordinary Chicagoans, Marcone is a bad person. Compared Corb and Lady Thanos (and I expect that term to be used) he's practically a saint.
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Jul 22, 2020 21:04
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I always got the impression Marcone was supposed to be sort of like an idealized version of the Yakuza, where the crimes he engages in are sort of...'cleaner'/more respectable than one would normally expect of a criminal leader. Like he does prostitution presumably without human trafficking, dealing drugs (but never to kids), loan sharks, that kind of thing that usually doesn't intrude into the lives of ordinary people. But though his criminal organization may be less obviously lovely than a 'typical' gang, it's still definitely not a force for good here.
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Jul 22, 2020 21:13
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thumper57 posted:N'thing the editing complaints... aside from the "remake of The Blob" twice in four pages there was also Lara saying "we can always choose to use the Hunger, but can't always choose to not use it" two different times, and Harry reacting like this was a new insight both times, Harry saying about 4 times in one sequence that Lara made him want to beat his chest like Tarzan, and for one sentence Butters is sparring with Santa instead of Sanya. I enjoyed the book but it felt like a draft that got published by accident. Also, people kept saying "keep your friends close".
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Jul 22, 2020 21:15
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We're told a lot about how dangerous and evil Marcone is but we rarely if ever see it. "Show, don't tell" is a mainstay of basic literary criticism for a reason.
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Jul 22, 2020 21:27
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docbeard posted:We're told a lot about how dangerous and evil Marcone is but we rarely if ever see it. I think the last time we got anything close to that was when Marcone was throwing knives around during the whole thing with the various werewolves.
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Jul 22, 2020 22:11
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He does start a short story shooting two unarmed restrained people in the head, but it turns out they were selling drugs to and pimping out children so morally it's fine and probably better than how Dresden would have treated them
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Jul 22, 2020 22:21
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Illuyankas posted:He does start a short story shooting two unarmed restrained people in the head, but it turns out they were selling drugs to and pimping out children so morally it's fine and probably better than how Dresden would have treated them Dresden would've been all Forzare! immediately followed by "man those schoolchildren's shorts are really short but I'm totally not noticing"
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Jul 22, 2020 22:44
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Yeah, Marcone's whole thing is being Lawful Evil. He does the bad poo poo, but he has a strict code about who he allows to be involved, which is why Harry says he never made a full on effort to take him down, since he knew that if he did, someone less "honorable" would inevitably fill in the power vacuum. Kinda like how the Fomor didn't start (openly, at least) making a move until the Red Court got deleted.
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Jul 23, 2020 00:37
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