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The Sea Scorpion is one of the most underwhelming units ever
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Jul 22, 2020 05:11
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Jobbo_Fett posted:
Do not order the tea!
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Jul 22, 2020 05:35
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i like the sea scorpion for the times where you can figure out the AI's staging area for aerial assaults, pretty much they get veterancy pretty quickly, so you can park a couple off the base and forget about it instead of having to repair buildings and poo poo
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Jul 22, 2020 07:30
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Sea scorpions make your subs immune to their only counter, so they can be useful.
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Jul 22, 2020 08:52
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V. Illych L. posted:i like the sea scorpion for the times where you can figure out the AI's staging area for aerial assaults, pretty much This is also why I DO buy the theory that AA weapons cannot garrison in buildings for balance reasons. It would make urban maps complete no-go zones for air units (and if you play that mod being mentioned, you'll see they got around this by making garrisoned AA units lose their AA capability).
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Jul 22, 2020 11:14
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From what I hear, in the base game buildings have two internal weapons defined, one for GIs, one for conscripts. The IFV has considerably more options defined (most of which don't get more powerful as it or its passenger gain veterancy for some reason). Interestingly, if you put a flak trooper in an IFV, the resulting flak IFV can only fire at the ground.
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Jul 22, 2020 11:18
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I sort of assume that sea scorpions are better in multiplayer, where they can help hold off rocketeers or Kirov assaults.
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Jul 22, 2020 11:25
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Yeah, never was too keen on Sea Scorpions either, although they do have their place, and honestly are kinda decent this mission since as shown, the Korean Navy is more or less a no show, and they can pelt the Con. Yard with impunity once the pair of Destroyers are taken down. Plus they are dirt cheap so good if you just need to spam something out for whatever reason. As for Korea and navies, historically they had a pretty solid defensive Navy due to repeated pirate raids and both Japan and the Mongols trying to invade them at various times, so them launching a naval invasion in the RA-verse is not out of the question. Anyway, minor history lesson over, this is a pretty fun mission, but man, one that just screams for you to cheese it. If you let them, the Allies can actually grow into a threat, but why would you not just try to zip on over and crush them before they get out of hand? The huge amount of water on the map does feel a tad wasted though.
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Jul 22, 2020 12:32
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Yeah Sea Scorpions have a very limited use that I just don't think ever really comes up in the campaign, either because the maps dont allow it or the AI doesnt validate it. I'd still rather focus on buying Flak Cannons vs Sea Scorpions (or get Flak Troopers) because building the naval unit prevents me from gettimg the other ones i actually want, whereas the defensive structure tab only has 2 real options
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Jul 22, 2020 12:34
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The biggest use for sea scorpions I found was scouting. The Soviet navy is soooooooo besides them, so having a couple zip around removing fog is always useful to make sure the powerhouses are in the right place.
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Jul 22, 2020 12:36
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The Sea Scorpion is kinda of like the opposite of an Aegis Cruiser that could still shoot at air targets.
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Jul 22, 2020 12:41
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The Sea Scorpion isn't *that* bad in my experience, they do their job well (cheap scouting faster than subs and force multipliers to keep your other ships safe from the air) but their damage and durability is worthless in a straight ship to ship fight with destroyers or ground units. I usually keep a few of them in a separate group to screen for my other ships after using them to zoom around and scout. At max rank their anti-air damage is probably the best in the Soviet arsenal, but in a 1-to-1 comparison to the Aegis Cruiser it is the obvious loser. Fortunately they are cheap enough to use in clusters, and with five sea scorpions or so Allied naval aircraft won't survive to complete their attack strafes and Rocketeer swarms get wiped out by their AOE damage.
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Jul 22, 2020 21:17
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you didn't really discuss it, but during this mission you can see one of the biggest beefs I have with the navy game: it's almost impossible for naval units (especially subs) to intercept transports effectively unless they're in basically perfect position.
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Jul 22, 2020 21:51
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HannibalBarca posted:you didn't really discuss it, but during this mission you can see one of the biggest beefs I have with the navy game: it's almost impossible for naval units (especially subs) to intercept transports effectively unless they're in basically perfect position. Yeah, and those transports are supposed to be the weaker version!
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Jul 22, 2020 22:18
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It is kinda nice to be able to sneak transports through as a player however. But base defenses are the best for it I think.
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Jul 22, 2020 22:34
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Is the allied transport a little bit faster than the soviet one?
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Jul 22, 2020 23:16
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Laughing Zealot posted:Is the allied transport a little bit faster than the soviet one? As far as I can tell, looking at the rules.ini file, nope!
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Jul 22, 2020 23:18
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All the time playing the game I never noticed any difference between the two units. Even visually they're almost identical unless they're side by side.
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Jul 22, 2020 23:23
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Yeah, I always assumed that the Allied version was quicker, which is the general Allied theme, so I guess the Soviet one is just straight up superior then.
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Jul 23, 2020 07:37
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Sea Scorpions are trash on their own, but pack one or two alongside a submarine fleet and they make an excellent force multiplier. That still doesn't mean I bother to build them.
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Jul 23, 2020 16:21
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This is probably the most Tiberian Sunny mission for me, in that I always beat it by immediately sending rifleman equivalents to the spot they'll show up, selling off everything non-essential as the timer starts running out. You can have a good hundred something conscripts hanging out at that lighthouse when they land. And then I reload, cause I always forget to build some drat subs to clear the naval units.
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Jul 24, 2020 08:56
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I thought it was weird we're specifically told we're fighting the Koreans and the main thing they do is attack us with harriers
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Jul 28, 2020 20:36
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While I agree that's odd, I have yet to see anything in the lp that would justify this feeling of oddness.
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Jul 28, 2020 22:22
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Soviet 05: Operation: City of Lights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mze61VAck5k Operation: City of Lights  Although the Commander and their forces was capable of protecting the homeland from any Korean incursions along the Pacific coast of the Soviet Union, it may have simply been an Allied effort to buy time for the European allies to gather their forces in a planned strike at the Western border of the Motherland. But, while they continue to prepare, they simply cannot defend themselves everywhere. Show them what a mistake it is to fight against the Soviet Union!   Paris, France, city of lights, city of love.  Location: Paris, France Objective: Capture the Eiffel Tower and destroy all Allied forces in the area. Briefing: The European nations are planning to join with the crippled Americans. We must not let this act of aggression go unpunished. You must lay waste to their beautiful Paris. We will show the Allies the true meaning of power by turning their own precious monuments into weapons of mass destruction. Author's note: A fast and fun mission. I have to wonder if this is the best level to introduce Crazy Ivan, as he doesn't exactly excel against the units available this mission.   Name: President Dugan Aliases: None Affiliation: Allies Occupation: President of the United States of America Voiced/Played by: Ray Wise President of the United States of America. Helped install Premier Romanov in Soviet Russia. Defected to the Reds. Rehabilitated after the destruction of the Psychic Beacon in Washington D.C. Is willing to authorize lethal force in urban areas... provided you don't harm any of his constituents. Managed to evade capture and escape to Canada.  Name: Alexander Romanov Aliases: None Affiliation: Soviet Occupation: Premier of the Glorious Soviet Union Voiced/Played by: Nicholas Worth Premier of the Soviet Union. Has a pet turtle named Harry; no dove though. A rather jovial fellow.  Name: Yuri Aliases: None Affiliation: Soviet Occupation: Aide/Confidant to the Premier of the Soviet Union [Unconfirmed] Voiced/Played by: Udo Kier Aide/Confidant to the Premier of the Soviet Union. May not be on the up-and-up, dislikes Gen. Vladimir. Knows the meaning of "Soviet Irony."   Crazy Ivan RANGE: Short ARMOR: None WEAPON: Explosives COST: 600 A codename used for Soviet demolitions experts, a Crazy Ivan attacks by placing dynamite around the map. Virtually anything can be wired to explode, from enemy structures to individual Conscripts—even wandering cows. Once placed on enemies or neutral units and structures, the bombs will count down to detonation and then explode. Crazy Ivan units can also demolish bridges by placing dynamite on bridge huts. Author's Note: I literally never used Crazy Ivans, so uhhh.... they exist?  Tesla Coil ARMOR: Steel COST: 1500 POWER USED: 75 PURPOSE: Base Defense A powerful base-defence against all ground units, the Tesla Coil attacks with a powerful bolt of electricity. Unlike other base-defenses, a Tesla Coil can be charged by Tesla Troopers, and will remain active even if the base loses power. Author's Note: All hail the mighty Tesla Coil. It doesn't feel as strong as Red Alert's version, but that doesn't make these any less desirable for your base. Aftermath: Faster than Par Time: "The French fear your command more than they fear our tanks. In Paris you are known only as 'The Butcher'." Slower than Par Time: "You turned the Paris Tower into a weapon of terror. You have 'punished' Europe sufficiently." Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jul 29, 2020 |
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Jul 29, 2020 01:10
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I would like to comment that the "Faster than Par Time" text seems very out of place for a mission that never has us use tanks.
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Jul 29, 2020 01:14
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The Canadian flag falling into the broadcast is still hilarious all these years later 
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Jul 29, 2020 01:20
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Crazy Ivan IFVs are hilariously effective but that's about the only use I ever got out of them.
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Jul 29, 2020 01:36
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I bet you could speedrun that by getting the two flak tracks, loading them up with tesla troopers, putting them in the hovercraft, and then driving the resulting package directly at the tower. You'll lose the vehicles and probably some of the troopers but you just need to get there. edit: screen your delivery hovercraft with suicide conscript blob to soak up bullets from the GIs/pillboxes Radio Free Kobold fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Jul 29, 2020 |
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Jul 29, 2020 01:37
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Crazy Ivan's bombs just aren't powerful enough. They aren't one-hit-kills on structures like Allied SEALS' C4 charges, they don't do enough damage to make it worth rigging a vehicle and sending it at the enemy, and the AI never returns damaged vehicles home so there's no point to rigging enemy units either. Pretty much all Ivan can do is disrupt infantry waves since his bomb can at least kill basic troops. Something has changed with the tower, yes. When you first sight the tower, a little video in the radar screen plays of a tesla trooper explaining they will need to get close to it to charge the structure. Then it starts zapping everything, and the mission doesn't end until you destroy everything within range of it, and the range specifically extends all the way out to the Arc de Triomphe, which has a special collapsing animation. Not sure if the mission broke because you approached from the wrong direction, or what. Also this mission is more than a tad ironic given Red Alert 2 was released right before 9/11 and the US will spend the next decade sneering at the French military.
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Jul 29, 2020 02:12
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I would like to comment that the "Faster than Par Time" text seems very out of place for a mission that never has us use tanks. No? They fear you more than tanks because you didn't need tanks.
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Jul 29, 2020 02:36
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mr_stibbons posted:No? They fear you more than tanks because you didn't need tanks. Apparently I read this wrong 3 times. I'm gonna blame Covid on that one.
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Jul 29, 2020 02:38
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You're supposed to use Ivans to put bombs on the moving trucks - their patrol routes move them past allied units, so it's a way to soften things up. I still never use ivans outside of this one level.
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Jul 29, 2020 03:03
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That amphibious transport was inseine.
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Jul 29, 2020 03:16
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Crazy Ivan feels like the rare RA2 unit that's completely useless.
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Jul 29, 2020 03:22
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Yeah crazy ivans are my pick for the worst unit in the game. Plus they killed Carville
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Jul 29, 2020 04:01
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lmao at turning the Eiffel Tower into a giant Tesla Coil though.
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Jul 29, 2020 04:05
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HardDiskD posted:lmao at turning the Eiffel Tower into a giant Tesla Coil though. The only way to make this bettwr is if it was the CN Tower as an attempt by the Soviets to hound him even into Canada.
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Jul 29, 2020 04:14
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Crazy Ivan is an unconventional unit, but that just means you have to use it unconventionally. Strapping bombs to the trucks in this level is one instance, in multiplayer and general use you could consider strapping bombs to something fast like a dog or a terror drone and sending it at the enemy. And yeah, get one in an IFV and the IFV becomes a dirty bomb.
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Jul 29, 2020 04:18
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Iirc you can put conscripts into a flak track after hitting them with Ivan, and they won't blow until after it unloads either manually or from destruction. That goes for putting them into anything, really.
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Jul 29, 2020 04:26
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I'm kinda weirded out by the sense of scale in this game, and it's not just where units are involved (where it is understandable) - the World Trade Center had around 400 meters and doesn't fit on the map, the Eiffel Tower is 3/4 that and you can comfortably see it whole with place to spare, not to mention their width. Crazy Ivans are the unit that keeps breaking my heart because I absolutely love the idea behind it but it's just not useful. Maybe if the bombs were detonated remotely or on death...
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Jul 29, 2020 10:51
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