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Kamrat posted:This Corona thing that's going on is a good excuse to postpone it yet again, I'll be surprised if it happens this year. I don't think it's technically possible to prolong the transitional period beyond January 31st, 2021, but who knows. However, corona will definitely be a convenient excuse for the British economy tanking so hard. Sovereignty (uh not counting our subservience to the US) is just around the corner!
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Jul 22, 2020 14:36
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Antigravitas posted:Brexit has already happened. We are in the transition period where the UK's hand is even weaker and they've already denied prolonging the transition period due to the pandemic. Oh I didn't know this, oh well, guess this is happening then. Edit: Phlegmish posted:However, corona will definitely be a convenient excuse for the British economy tanking so hard. Sovereignty (uh not counting our subservience to the US) is just around the corner! Yeah this will happen for sure. Map  Kamrat fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 22, 2020 14:40
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Antigravitas posted:Brexit is such an all-emcompassing clusterfuck, fractally, at every level. It's amazing. Yeah, back in 2016 I was just vaguely disappointed, although thinking it wouldn't be too bad getting rid of a Trojan horse, and figured the UK would make it out OK. Since then, they've done everything in their power to make themselves look ridiculous and fail in every possible way. It's difficult to even get angry at the delusional, self-absorbed xenophobia, they're just too silly. I think we are witnessing the final death throes of the British Empire, psychologically speaking. Instead of being one of the kingpins within the EU, they'll be reduced to being a vassal state both of the EU and the US. Wow! Much sovereignty!!
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Jul 22, 2020 14:43
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Phlegmish posted:Instead of being one of the kingpins within the EU, they'll be reduced to being a vassal state both of the EU and the US. Wow! Much sovereignty!! The UK is gonna become a weird-rear end combo of island tax shelter, revanchist state out to reestablish its empire, and colonial outpost of a declining empire all at once.
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Jul 22, 2020 15:28
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I think the keys of this map are here: - Is your favorite character edible? - Do your favorite character arouse you or start your engines? - Would you support the legalization of marriage between a men and a fictional anime character? Theres basically 3 groups of states, based on the solid YES answers to the questions above.
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Jul 22, 2020 16:59
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Brexit will never truly happen, the UK will just end up abiding all of the EU's regulations except it has resigned from having a say in any of them. It Puerto Rico'd itself. Also UK citizens living abroad are getting deported, but not the other way around. Great idea idiots.
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Jul 22, 2020 17:30
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Tei posted:I think the keys of this map are here: Which box does marvin tick for you?
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Jul 22, 2020 17:50
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yikes! posted:Which box does marvin tick for you?
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Jul 22, 2020 18:11
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Marvin supports legalization of marriage between a man and a fictional anime character. It's the plot of Space Jam.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:14
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I've said it before but as americans we should really be thankful to our monarchist cousins across the sea for doing Brexit when they did. At least we can be laughingstock pariah states together. They even had the decency to elect their own Trump.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:25
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Johnson is a bargain bin Trump, and when he asked his special ally to extradite Anne Sacoolas, they laughed in his face.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:41
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Britain never came to terms with the decline and the end of the Empire. When I was growing up, my grandfather had this giant map of it on a wall. It was printed on a piece of glass, with the Empire itself marked in traditional red, and depicted at its absolute height, along with the geographical distortions to make Canada and Australia look bigger than they actually are but it wasn't an old map. It was pretty new! I've never managed to find the exact image again, but it was an absurd and obscene thing.
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Jul 22, 2020 19:22
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A Buttery Pastry posted:You're forgetting about Russian oligarchs. They just had a report come out that pretty much says something to the effect of "Can't remove Russian money from the political system without completely replacing it". The report also said the security services couldn't provide evidence of Russian interference in politics because they were told not to investigate. Apparently this vindicates the government, somehow?
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Jul 22, 2020 20:24
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The Anglo is a base creature with no capacity for emotion beyond hate and greed.
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Jul 22, 2020 21:20
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a fatguy baldspot posted:Why is Louisiana’s favorite looney tune the generic witch? Does she even have a name It's Hazel. Witch Hazel.
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Jul 22, 2020 21:32
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FreudianSlippers posted:The Anglo is a base creature with no capacity for emotion beyond hate and greed. 
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Jul 22, 2020 21:38
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Hungry posted:Britain never came to terms with the decline and the end of the Empire. To be fair neither did the French.
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Jul 23, 2020 04:04
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a fatguy baldspot posted:Why is Louisiana’s favorite looney tune the generic witch? Does she even have a name Also baffled by Massachusetts and Colorado
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Jul 23, 2020 04:19
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ToxicAcne posted:To be fair neither did the French. I feel like the French were a lot less graceful about losing their empire.
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Jul 23, 2020 04:49
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SlothfulCobra posted:I feel like the French were a lot less graceful about losing their empire.
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Jul 23, 2020 05:02
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If you count French Guiana as an empire, you gotta count Gibraltar and the Falklands.
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Jul 23, 2020 05:11
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SlothfulCobra posted:If you count French Guiana as an empire, you gotta count Gibraltar and the Falklands.
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Jul 23, 2020 05:15
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ToxicAcne posted:To be fair neither did the French. Or the Russians... Or the Turks... At this rate America...
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Jul 23, 2020 06:20
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SlothfulCobra posted:I feel like the French were a lot less graceful about losing their empire. Yeah but getting trounced by the Vietnamese and Algerian independentists forced some acknowledgement of the reality that keeping the French empire was never going to be possible. The UK letting it's colonies go more "gracefully" allows it to keep telling itself that it did the former colonies a favor. But even if it's not a war, something like the partition of India (death toll: 750,000 to 2 million) was still messy as hell.
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Jul 23, 2020 06:34
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Kassad posted:Yeah but getting trounced by the Vietnamese and Algerian independentists forced some acknowledgement of the reality that keeping the French empire was never going to be possible. The UK letting it's colonies go more "gracefully" allows it to keep telling itself that it did the former colonies a favor. But even if it's not a war, something like the partition of India (death toll: 750,000 to 2 million) was not what I would "graceful". The UK had plenty of violent exits if maybe not as big as the French ones. They tended to be guerrilla conflicts instead. Ireland, Israel, Malaysia, Cyprus, Yemen, Kenya, even Rhodesia kinda sorta though that one was disconnected from the metropole at least. ...and Northern Ireland  But I think you have a point that these wouldn't have sucked all the energy and morale out of the country in the way something like Algeria did for France. Grape fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 06:38
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 Interesting counterpart to the Montreal language map that I posted a while back, although here the division make alot more sense. Unrelated question, Why is French much less prevalent in Southeast Asia than in former French Africa? ToxicAcne fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 06:40
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Kassad posted:Yeah but getting trounced by the Vietnamese and Algerian independentists forced some acknowledgement of the reality that keeping the French empire was never going to be possible. gently caress the British Empire forever.
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Jul 23, 2020 06:44
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ToxicAcne posted:Unrelated question, Why is French much less prevalent in Southeast Asia than in former French Africa? I'd guess that has something to do with Southeast Asia having firmer states existing pre-colonialism, that more or less ended up in the same national form on the other end of colonialism. With kind of the exception of Laos, the mainland SE Asian countries essentially existed before the French. Vietnam was a pre-colonial thing, Cambodia was a (very sad and moribund, the French may actually have saved it by conquering it lol) pre-colonial thing. Burma was a pre-colonial thing as well pre-British. In Africa you tended to have the European entities gobble up chunks of territory and build something out of that, without much care or attention to pre-existing states and cultural zones. So like Vietnam is Vietnam, even within French Indochina, Vietnamese society is going to continue on being Vietnamese. But the various frankenstein's monsters in Africa are going to really only make sense with a lingua franca. I'd assume the French administrated that way even before post-colonial leaders might have decided the only way to unite such random populations was with French. Though you do have some post-colonial African countries with indigenous lingua francas as well, like Rwanda has both French (via Belgium) and Kinyarwanda. And well poo poo, actually that's a bad example because Rwanda (and Burundi) is one of the few African colonial entities that WERE kind of based on a pre-colonial state. Or is that a good example...
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Jul 23, 2020 06:50
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Yeah the lingua franca thing is mostly correct, French can be somewhat useful for non homogenized multi-linguistic countries in Africa but it's extremely redundant in south-east Asia where people already have been talking the same language for century.
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Jul 23, 2020 06:56
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Hmm, yeah that makes sense for French West Africa, but what about North Africa? Arabic was and is firmly entrenched in those nations, yet French is still the language of higher education.
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Jul 23, 2020 06:59
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ToxicAcne posted:Hmm, yeah that makes sense for French West Africa, but what about North Africa? Arabic was and is firmly entrenched in those nations, yet French is still the language of higher education. Arabic in North Africa is just the previous colonizer's language, the indigenous languages being the various forms of Berber. The use of Arabic is strongly tied to Islam, so there's kind of this connotation that if you teach in French it's secular education, if you teach in Arabic it's religious education.
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Jul 23, 2020 07:15
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 This was just posted on reddit. Enjoy the comments! https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/hvyobp/oc_mississippi_the_poorest_state_in_the_us/ Edit: Here's also PPP (author states that Israel is coloured by accident). 
ToxicAcne fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 08:14
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I’m French Guiana.
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Jul 23, 2020 08:42
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ToxicAcne posted:Hmm, yeah that makes sense for French West Africa, but what about North Africa? Arabic was and is firmly entrenched in those nations, yet French is still the language of higher education.
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Jul 23, 2020 10:46
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm91jBeN4oo We didn't start the fire...
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Jul 23, 2020 10:47
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Toplowtech posted:That's because the Arabic language is not an unified language, even in North Africa. The way arabic is spoken in the muslim world is dialectical. People in Tunis don't speak the same way as the people in Morocco. Various tribes and ethnic groups in the same country may not speak arabic in a way similar enough for other groups to understand them (it's in a way similar to the many regional language in Europe). "Standard Arabic" (the one used in newpapers or on Al Jazeera) is basically doing what most non-arabic people believe local Arabic does (i.e. provide an unified language) but it's the language of the educated people and it's not even the same Arabic as in the Quran. Bringing in Moroccan Arabic is cheating...
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Jul 23, 2020 10:50
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Groda posted:Bringing in Moroccan Arabic is cheating... Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 11:04
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The French never lost it, it was just scaled down a bit. So yeah, not very graceful. And also, many of the territories they lost they didn't actually want to give up but were forced to simply because they lost the military engagements over them. Has to sting a little more. I wonder if, besides WWII, that's partly also where the dumb stereotype of the French constantly surrendering comes from?
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Jul 23, 2020 13:46
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I think the point about the french empire never going away is that France is still a power in West Africa, just in a way that’s more politically palatable today. French troops are on deployment in the former colonies right now, today.
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Jul 23, 2020 13:57
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ToxicAcne posted:Unrelated question, Why is French much less prevalent in Southeast Asia than in former French Africa? The most important variable seems to be the prior existence of a widely used lingua franca. If Dutch had prevailed in Indonesia, it would have been a second-tier global language, much like Portuguese. But it didn't, mainly because Malay was already widely spoken in the region, and even beyond (there's also that the Dutch tend not to give a poo poo about their own language, only about €€€, and are huge cultural cringers, but that's a different discussion). Sub-Saharan Africa doesn't really have that, with the major exception of Swahili. And behold, I went to check the Wikipedia entry for Tanzania just to be sure I wouldn't be called out for being completely wrong, and saw this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzania#Languages quote:Swahili is used in parliamentary debate, in the lower courts, and as a medium of instruction in primary school. English is used in foreign trade, in diplomacy, in higher courts, and as a medium of instruction in secondary and higher education,[25] The Tanzanian government, however, has plans to discontinue English as a language of instruction.[28] In connection with his Ujamaa social policies, President Nyerere encouraged the use of Swahili to help unify the country's many ethnic groups.[186] Approximately 10 per cent of Tanzanians speak Swahili as a first language, and up to 90 per cent speak it as a second language.[25] Many educated Tanzanians are trilingual, also speaking English.[187][188][189] The widespread use and promotion of Swahili is contributing to the decline of smaller languages in the country.[25][190] Young children increasingly speak Swahili as a first language, particularly in urban areas.[191] Ethnic community languages (ECL) other than Kiswahili are not allowed as a language of instruction. Nor are they taught as a subject, though they might be used unofficially in some cases in initial education. Television and radio programmes in an ECL are prohibited, and it is nearly impossible to get permission to publish a newspaper in an ECL. There is no department of local or regional African Languages and Literatures at the University of Dar es Salaam.[192]
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Jul 23, 2020 13:58
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