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Zongerian posted:Oh yeah, name 5 of them It's really not hard as other posters are listing them, you can also include Divinity 2, definitely the last two AC games despite Ubisoft trying to be terrible, and if you look at the Infogrames list there's a ton more.
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Jul 23, 2020 22:55
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Dias posted:Why do I get the feeling that the people going "it's okay to just make general statements about an entire country's population" are all Americans? im not saying that, what im specifically saying is making a general statement about france isnt racism. it may be some other form of bad or discriminatory language, but one thing it explicitly isnt is racism. making a broad statement about some other countries may be racially motivated, for example if a white westerner says something negative about an entire african or middle eastern nation its very likely to be racist. however, this doesnt apply to the nation of france. i hope we can come to an understanding i dont feel i can explain that saying something bad about france isnt racially motivated discrimination any clearer than i have.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:06
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It's weird how people aren't understanding Stux because what they are saying is not some crazy idea. It's not racism to make fun of French People not shaving or smoking cigarettes or whatever. They're stereotypes, but no-one's going to lynch a frenchman for being hairy.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:08
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Stux posted:im not saying that, what im specifically saying is making a general statement about france isnt racism. it may be some other form of bad or discriminatory language, but one thing it explicitly isnt is racism. making a broad statement about some other countries may be racially motivated, for example if a white westerner says something negative about an entire african or middle eastern nation its very likely to be racist. however, this doesnt apply to the nation of france. i hope we can come to an understanding i dont feel i can explain that saying something bad about france isnt racially motivated discrimination any clearer than i have. Was your name mentioned anywhere in that post? It's fine, I believe in you, you're not a racist. Still, you should be careful about making pretty broad statements made from a position of ignorance, especially if you're from a country that dominates the narrative and tends to frame everything from their specific cultural lens.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:08
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Less Fat Luke posted:It's really not hard Oh really
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Jul 23, 2020 23:11
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ive not made any statements other than french isnt a race and saying something about france isnt racist. i made an illustrative comment about british people because i am from the uk. the post youre quoting specifically says making a broad statement about people from france may be some other form of discriminatory language, but it isnt racist. i hope this is clear now.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:12
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Boba Pearl posted:It's weird how people aren't understanding Stux because what they are saying is not some crazy idea. It's not racism to make fun of French People not shaving or smoking cigarettes or whatever. They're stereotypes, but no-one's going to lynch a frenchman for being hairy. That’s an awful argument. Nobody is going to lynch a black person for liking watermelon or an Asian guy for being good at math, but ithey’re still racist as gently caress stereotypes. And I’d be willing to bet French people have been killed because people thought they’d hosed their wives, beaten up because dumb yokels think they’re cheese-eating surrender monkeys etc. Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 23:12
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Der Shovel posted:That’s an awful argument. Nobody is going to lynch a black person for liking watermelon or an Asian guy for being good at math, but ithey’re still racist as gently caress stereotypes. the examples you quoted are not the same as the examples you mentioned and you shouldnt conflate them.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:14
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Stux posted:ive not made any statements other than french isnt a race and saying something about france isnt racist. i made an illustrative comment about british people because i am from the uk. the post youre quoting specifically says making a broad statement about people from france may be some other form of discriminatory language, but it isnt racist. i hope this is clear now. Motherfucker, again, DID I MENTION YOUR NAME? You're getting weirdly defensive for someone that agreed with my general point on an emptyquote, my addendum there was meant more as a general rule of thumb than a personal callout. Chill.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:15
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Stux posted:the examples you quoted are not the same as the examples you mentioned and you shouldnt conflate them. That guy shound’t make ”it’s OK to say X because people don’t get killed because of X” arguments.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:16
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Der Shovel posted:That guy shound’t make ”it’s OK to say X because people don’t get killed because of X” arguments. Surely you can't think that the amount of a black people killed over stereotypes is comparable to the French in examples you made up? This whole thing is a pendantic argument. Edit: the detail was over Ubisoft Montreal so really it's the Canadians who should be getting dragged mycot fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 23:19
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Zongerian posted:The name 5 good French games challenge Okay 1. Furi 2. Furi 3. Furi 4. Furi 5. Furi
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Jul 23, 2020 23:19
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Dias posted:Motherfucker, again, DID I MENTION YOUR NAME? You're getting weirdly defensive for someone that agreed with my general point on an emptyquote, my addendum there was meant more as a general rule of thumb than a personal callout. Chill. yes, you were. you quoted me and said "It's fine, I believe in you, you're not a racist. Still, you should be careful about making pretty broad statements made from a position of ignorance" and i was responding. apologies if you meant to quote someone else when you said that. Der Shovel posted:That guy shound’t make ”it’s OK to say X because people don’t get killed because of X” arguments. that doesnt give you cause to conflate racial stereotypes with stereotypes about french people.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:21
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learning a lot about sexual harassment in the games industry rn
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Jul 23, 2020 23:22
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Stux posted:yes, you were. you quoted me and said "It's fine, I believe in you, you're not a racist. Still, you should be careful about making pretty broad statements made from a position of ignorance" and i was responding. apologies if you meant to quote someone else when you said that. ...you're being deliberately obtuse, huh. Whatever. My original post wasn't about you. You're fine. Go on and live your best life.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:24
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Fargin Icehole posted:Okay I was originally going to do a serious list and that was going to be at the top of it but then I realised there's five good rayman games
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Jul 23, 2020 23:24
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Der Shovel posted:That’s an awful argument. Nobody is going to lynch a black person for liking watermelon or an Asian guy for being good at math, but ithey’re still racist as gently caress stereotypes. Except they will? And that has happened to both of those people? Why are you pretending racists aren't killing minorities?!
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Jul 23, 2020 23:25
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We can talk about how Ubisoft is making abuse survivors sign NDAs before they will bother to do internal investigations instead of any kind of meaningful action
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Jul 23, 2020 23:26
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This is a stupid pedantic derail and I hate all of you for it.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:26
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Endorph posted:learning a lot about sexual harassment in the games industry rn It's tangentially related but somewhat important to discuss how we can't be reductive and say it's a regional issue. You of all people should be fine with that. Otherwise, you can always bring a new case to be discussed, because this post also added nothing to the table.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:27
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Endorph posted:learning a lot about sexual harassment in the games industry rn i didnt think telling someone not to call comments about france "a race thing" was going to make people argue that it is, actually. sorry for the derail
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Jul 23, 2020 23:27
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Acerbatus posted:imo treating large groups of people as lesser for something they can't control is bad, even if some members of that group hold all the power. 
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Jul 23, 2020 23:27
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:We can talk about how Ubisoft is making abuse survivors sign NDAs before they will bother to do internal investigations instead of any kind of meaningful action Ubi has handled the whole situation so cynically it hurts. They made some big moves but there's no addressing the actual lovely culture.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:28
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Ubisoft is so hosed, and is going to do nothing to change, not to mention most of their games ends up being fasc bait.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:31
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Yup, Ubisoft is going by the standard corporate playbook. Basically a holding pattern until it blows over, with some changes that aren't really meant to solve the issues so much as they are to help protect them from future public embarrassment.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:31
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Stux posted:i didnt think telling someone not to call comments about france "a race thing" was going to make people argue that it is, actually. And to be clear, I'm actually with you on that. The initial comment was off base but not racist, just weird and dumb. Apologies from here also. HerpicleOmnicron5 fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 23:36
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Yup, Ubisoft is going by the standard corporate playbook. Basically a holding pattern until it blows over, with some changes that aren't really meant to solve the issues so much as they are to help protect them from future public embarrassment. The whole shift in leadership feels like more of a takeover than a reform too. On the other hand, I don't see how this stuff can be solved tackling individual cases. Like, not that these people shouldn't be called out and removed from power, but it's a bit...exhausting, when you do that and then another rear end in a top hat pops up and takes their place. For big companies, you can try boycotting but them going broke just means their poo poo is gonna get bought by another company that just didn't get exposed yet.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:40
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I just hope Valhalla sales actually take a hit. I'm certainly not getting it now
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Jul 23, 2020 23:41
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You need to remove the head, or in a case where the head was "only" negligent or incompetent, the head needs to actually get off their rear end and do their job. Corporate culture is best changed from the top down. It's not impossible for the staff to change the culture, leveraging the current publicity against management, but that's unlikely without unionisation or any other form of collective bargaining/organisation, and not everyone in the lower layers of the company would necessarily want to take part in that for many reasons, good and bad.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:44
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in cases like these, the entire company should be forcibly dissolved
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Jul 23, 2020 23:46
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Wildcat strikes (or in the case of the French divisions that are organized, official strikes)
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Jul 23, 2020 23:48
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I would want an outside government organization to crack down on this poo poo, but it also needs to be with a government that's not terrible. So uh, I really proposed nothing here  .But I do have blanket statements to make against the Gauls, such as:
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Jul 24, 2020 00:08
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Zongerian posted:The name 5 good French games challenge dead cells 5 times.
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Jul 24, 2020 01:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb7yMHsDoVc dont gently caress with the french.
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Jul 24, 2020 01:41
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precision posted:I just hope Valhalla sales actually take a hit. I'm certainly not getting it now As if. The average consumer does not care about any of this stuff at all. And Assassin's Creed sells the most to the Average Consumer. I can see this kind of revelation tanking an indie company, but a major AAA studio? We don't live in a good enough world for that.
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Jul 24, 2020 02:01
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The thing that always bothers me (and workers in these studios always mention this as well) is that absent a coordinated message or strategy, individual choices to not purchase a product do absolutely nothing to produce change. Unless it's rubbed in their faces directly and indisputably, execs are more likely than not to look at a sales downturn and go "well looks like our efforts to make diverse protagonists aren't paying off, that's why this happened and nothing else, too bad we have to lay people off now" even if it makes no logical sense
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Jul 24, 2020 02:07
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:The thing that always bothers me (and workers in these studios always mention this as well) is that absent a coordinated message or strategy, individual choices to not purchase a product do absolutely nothing to produce change. It's not necessarily about producing change. The choice can be as simple as to not literally give money to them.
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Jul 24, 2020 02:15
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Dissolve Ubisoft, replace it with a company dedicated to the Universal Basic Income part of UBIsoft.
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Jul 24, 2020 02:21
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I mean personal taste or lifestyle choices are fine too (I certainly don't plan on buying any Ubi games or giving them much thought any time time soon) but pretty sure action should be directed to enact change
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Jul 24, 2020 02:22
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precision posted:It's not necessarily about producing change. The choice can be as simple as to not literally give money to them. The Consumer Activist Manifesto
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Jul 24, 2020 02:29
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