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100YrsofAttitude posted:I've been going through the Punk Music thread, and your posts there as here have been really enlightening. I'm not a fan of hardcore, but I do like early punk and the Oi! stuff sonically suits me perfectly. Haha, I can say I was not expecting a tie-in with the GBS Punk thread. Sure, PM me whenever you like, or post in the Punk thread. Only about five goons post there regularly, but combined there's a lot of knowledge there, and even some direct experience. I myself don't have that experience except for all the shows that I've been to, I'm a suburban nerd who was born in 1990. I wear my combats sometimes but it's basically cosplay, I have trouble screwing in a light bulb. Tying in Oi! and (non-Nazi) skinhead culture with Brexit seems like a great idea for a class, I'm certain that many of the people that played in or listened to those bands voted for it, especially given how old they are now. You even had a band like Last Resort directly commenting on Thatcher's decision to enter the EU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mgj7a__BE8 quote:You took us in Europe, it wasn't our choice You can see very crude nationalism on display here, but interestingly, a lot of these bands that weren't actually Nazis actively despised the far right for various good reasons. Here's The AFA Song by The Oppressed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7RNDlelLeY Released in 1996, but they've had links with anti-racist organisations almost since their inception. One thing, if you plan on doing it chronologically (although I guess there's no reason you have to), Oi! only crystallized as a separate subgenre a few years after punk broke through in the UK in 1977. And that itself was of course heavily influenced by various American proto-punk/garage rock bands, including the Ramones.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:05
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suck my woke dick posted:
Brit Goons think prefacing this sort of rant with a coy note on how this is 'extremely bad' belies the fact that they think this visible, obvious undercurrent of hatred for the working class is somehow hidden normally and doesn't radiate off of them literally all the time. They know, guys. The povvos know you despise them, and it's why they voted to cut their noses off to spite your face.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:44
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Phlegmish posted:Sure. That's also absolutely true. The point is that the working class were never bamboozled by the right into voting 'against their own interests', as if they're children and not themselves the best judges of what their interests are. They broadly still think the same things they thought back in 1965. quote:It's the left that's gradually changed, for the better although I guess it depends on your view, starting especially with the New Left that emerged from the student movements of the late sixties. Even though many of them were avowed Marxists, that's when the focus on ethics, anti-racism, spiritualism, Third-Worldism, etc. came to the forefront, and improving the material conditions of the lower classes became just one of many issues, all of it coinciding nicely with the onset of de-industrialization. Interestingly, many of these students were the socially mobile boomer children of blue-collar workers that I mentioned in my earlier post. quote:And to their credit, they've been enormously successful in pushing society left in ethical, cultural, and symbolical terms, no matter what anyone says. Western Europe in 2020 is completely different to the Western Europe of 1960. My boomer dad saw churches go from packed to almost empty in the span of a decade. It was a huge seismic shift in cultural terms. quote:However, to get back to the working class and making a very broad sociological generalization, in 2020 they agree with 'the left' on precisely one issue (left-wing economic policies), which the left itself has been de-emphasizing for decades now. Given that materialism has turned into a bullet point for the mainstream left, and even disappeared from view completely in the US (not counting Sanders), and given that their opinions on other matters are usually at odds with the party line (including those far left parties that actually do still pay attention to material/economic causes), what exactly is supposed to bind them to left-wing parties? quote:In my view, it all makes logical sense. Left-wing parties simply have a different voter base now, one that is highly educated and usually financially stable. Under current conditions, it is not possible for them to regain the traditional working class unless they turn into something they don't want to be and that they themselves wouldn't even consider 'left-wing'. To some extent the already existing oversupply of university graduates (who in many cases have already had the experience of drinking and loving their way across borders via exchanges, Erasmus funding etc) into a broken job market seems to be creating a decent sized culturally and economically left voter base. Notwithstanding some dipshits who want to go Strasserist, I think that this is the future of leftist parties, and thus there should be a strong urgency to expand higher education and other institutions promoting interaction of people from diverse backgrounds even on a purely practical level. There are also some internal contradictions, e.g. encouraging large segments of the population to undertake extended educational travel all over the place to counter blood and soil ideologies would run counter to current leftist climate policy (hence we must promote nuclear powered fully automated luxury gay space communist thought), but I don't see them as insurmountable obstacles. Currently, the main problem is that many nominally leftist parties are still acting incoherently on this issue while the right wing has already understood it and is now actively attacking culturally leftist institutions.
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Jul 23, 2020 23:51
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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atal posted:Brit Goons think prefacing this sort of rant with a coy note on how this is 'extremely bad' belies the fact that they think this visible, obvious undercurrent of hatred for the working class is somehow hidden normally and doesn't radiate off of them literally all the time. They know, guys. The povvos know you despise them, and it's why they voted to cut their noses off to spite your face. i'm not originally from the UK but  , and it's a problem, but if people insist on being nationalist shits and voting for borderline nazis i will viscerally hate them and hope they get hit by a bus whether they are povvo or own some means of productionthis means i probably shouldn't be put in charge of a leftist party but them's the breaks e: this goon gets it Antifa Poltergeist posted:There is no easy answer to this.or rather, there is: you have to fight and do poo poo that materially help these people before they'll even listen to you, and more for them to take you seriously.it is what it is.youre fighting all of Capital and centuries of indoctrination. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Jul 24, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 23:55
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SplitSoul posted:Or they could do like the increasingly successful Danish Social Democrats, continue to gut welfare and sell infrastructure to the likes of loving Goldman Sachs while also deftly out-racisting the single-issue racist parties. that sounds less like they're a left party and more like they're trying to be social democrat in the same way that the national socialists were socialist
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Jul 24, 2020 00:00
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Don't get me wrong, fascists and fascist expys deserve nothing but hatred but what struck me about both this thread, the UKMT and any of the innumerable Trurmp threads is the way every now and again a poster will stand up, post something along the lines of 'gently caress the working class, they are morons and thank Marx we are so much wiser' Then there is a weird sort of 20 minutes of hate where everyone joins in, and that's cool - you can think what you want to think, it's a free internet But the lack of empathy dramatically limits understanding - so there is never any attempt to understand the working class, what they want, how to reach them, etc and it turns out that that section of society is absolutely key in winning elections! This isn't a be nice to the fascists post, it's a post where if you study the mechanisms by which the New Deal got off the ground and, contra that, why post-COVID recovery looks to be a reactionary pile of shite is that one of these projects brought the working classes into the fold, and one has no place for them.
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Jul 24, 2020 00:08
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atal posted:Don't get me wrong, fascists and fascist expys deserve nothing but hatred but what struck me about both this thread, the UKMT and any of the innumerable Trurmp threads is the way every now and again a poster will stand up, post something along the lines of 'gently caress the working class, they are morons and thank Marx we are so much wiser' For me it's exasparation that even the people whose material interests are most directly affected prefer to shoot themselves and everyone around them in both feet over dumb culture war poo poo. Like, why would you care that the gays have seventy genders now, nobody is stopping you from continuing to have the exact same gender (which is exactly the same as your genitals or whatever) for the rest of your life. Of course taking a step back I realise that that is no way forward and that from the perspective of the people involved there are very clear reasons why they care/they feel their way of life is under threat/... but at some point I just can't be bothered to extend ever more olive branches to people who clearly aren't interesting in giving an inch or accepting they're not the single most important person on the planet. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Jul 24, 2020 |
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Jul 24, 2020 00:23
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Phlegmish posted:Haha, I can say I was not expecting a tie-in with the GBS Punk thread. Cool thanks. I'm working my way through the Punk thread, I'm on page 10 of 20 and just listening to the tracks people posted. I'll be sure to chime in once I've caught up. atal posted:But the lack of empathy dramatically limits understanding - so there is never any attempt to understand the working class, what they want, how to reach them, etc and it turns out that that section of society is absolutely key in winning elections! It's about empathy in the end and unfortunately one side is really lacking it.
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Jul 24, 2020 00:25
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In practical terms the fact that people aren't immortal means that within a few electoral cycles the working class will have fewer crusty reactionaries angry about losing their privileged position and more disillusioned and culturally less reactionary members drawn from today's degenerate youth. To an extent I'm just willing to sit the issue out and wait for chuds to literally die.
suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jul 24, 2020 |
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Jul 24, 2020 00:26
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This poo poo is hard.how could it not be? people like Lenin, or gramsci, or Sankara, or Cunhal, with all their imense faults, people way more intelligent and driven and capable than we are couldn't crack it.its hard.it is what it is. Anecdote time: one of the old guys in my union,early 60's, got screwed by a work injury, early retirement didn't attribute the necessary level of disability, he couldn't retire because the pension was miserly. The union lawyers got involved, social workers too, his case was eventually re-evaluated.retired at 61 with full pension.dude has been voting for right wing parties his whole life.hes been voting hard right the last couple of years.for parties that wanted to break all unions, to remove that disability payment adjustment.he'll still vote hard right the next election. His kids though, that saw the mental and physical suffering he went through, and the loving relief when it was resolved and settled, it push them firmly into the far left.his sister too, from what they tell me. Sometimes that happens.a lot of times it doesn't. You never know beforehand.you just know that a human being was being screwed, and the right and righteous decision was to help him. Being angry gets poo poo done.being angry is exausting.it is what it is. Antifa Poltergeist fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jul 24, 2020 |
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Jul 24, 2020 01:23
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I was feeling a bit up since my region in Sweden (Småland, insert banjo music here) reported no deaths in elderly care a few days back, but then I spoke to my father who lives on Öland, normally a highly visited tourist spot in regular years and apparently it is far, far worse than normal this year with stupidly packed beaches and towns. So bad in fact that the two communes on Öland have had to hire special guardsmen whose only task is to keep folk separated/socially distanced when outside. I kinda feel like screaming into the void. Like, one ill person and poo poo will spread fast again. How loving hard can it be to get this?
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Jul 24, 2020 03:02
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Lord Stimperor posted:I mean it wouldn't be the end of the world to me if we didn't get a classless society. But the loving cruelty of it all needs to go away. I'd be happy if I could see that. Lol, the cruelty is the source of their wealth my dude. Can’t have the one without the other.
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Jul 24, 2020 07:57
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Phlegmish posted:It's the left that's gradually changed, for the better although I guess it depends on your view, starting especially with the New Left that emerged from the student movements of the late sixties. Even though many of them were avowed Marxists, that's when the focus on ethics, anti-racism, spiritualism, Third-Worldism, etc. came to the forefront, and improving the material conditions of the lower classes became just one of many issues, all of it coinciding nicely with the onset of de-industrialization. It's no longer an issue at all, is the problem here. Modern left-wing parties have the following program:
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Jul 24, 2020 07:58
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Orange Devil posted:Lol, the cruelty is the source of their wealth my dude. Can’t have the one without the other. I don't think the cruelty is the source of their wealth. The cruelty is peanuts compared to the profits they take in from their investments. I think what austerity measures do is enforce a system where access to necessities and consumer goods is used as a privilege. It's here that the cruelty is by design, to drive home the distinction between people that should and should not be made feel safe and welcome. If we wanted to, we would find the money somewhere to change that. But somehow Germanic societies see spending as inherently sinful (zonde van, schuld, schulden, skuld etc, all being expressions of debt and guilt).
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Jul 24, 2020 08:09
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suck my woke dick posted:For me it's exasparation that even the people whose material interests are most directly affected prefer to shoot themselves and everyone around them in both feet over dumb culture war poo poo. Like, why would you care that the gays have seventy genders now, nobody is stopping you from continuing to have the exact same gender (which is exactly the same as your genitals or whatever) for the rest of your life. Of course taking a step back I realise that that is no way forward and that from the perspective of the people involved there are very clear reasons why they care/they feel their way of life is under threat/... but at some point I just can't be bothered to extend ever more olive branches to people who clearly aren't interesting in giving an inch or accepting they're not the single most important person on the planet. I’ve never known a working class person who thought they were the most important person in the world tbh
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Jul 24, 2020 08:12
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BTW if people ITT are thinking that being bigoted idiots is exclusive to the povvies who don't know any better, you're in for a bad surprise. Well-off middle and upper class folk just don't vent their bigotry by smashing in brown people's shop windows, they change zoning restrictions and other policies to keep our whom they don't want in their street.
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Jul 24, 2020 08:12
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Lord Stimperor posted:I don't think the cruelty is the source of their wealth. The cruelty is peanuts compared to the profits they take in from their investments. Investments aren’t a source of wealth, it’s just a term to make abstract a bunch of different actual things, in most if not all of which you’ll find cruelty when you examine them. Exploitation of labour is the source of wealth and inherently cruel. A cruelty compounded by the incentive to make the alternative to performing wage labour so miserable that most will “choose” wage labour, thus driving down wages. Re: your last paragraph, I recommend you read Debt: the first five thousand years.
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Jul 24, 2020 08:18
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Full telepathic gestalt conscious communism now! https://youtu.be/EF4Y-sxyBiE
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Jul 24, 2020 08:43
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Orange Devil posted:Investments aren’t a source of wealth, it’s just a term to make abstract a bunch of different actual things, in most if not all of which you’ll find cruelty when you examine them. Exploitation of labour is the source of wealth and inherently cruel. A cruelty compounded by the incentive to make the alternative to performing wage labour so miserable that most will “choose” wage labour, thus driving down wages. I'm with you on wealthy people relying on the exploitation of labour. But I'm not even thinking that far. Simply investing in, and making more accessible, various social services and benefits would in my guess reduce suffering for countless people. It would surprise me if our societies couldn't afford this, given that social benefits often pay off to savings in other departments. But for some reason our societies have it in their head that marginalized people need to keep being marginalized. We somehow just can't get mentally ill folk the assistance they need, they need to jump through one hoop after another to get and keep help. And if they can't do it for one reason or another, it's straight into needless and preventable abject poverty. Didn't cuts to mental health in the Netherlands lead to exactly this, more homeless people that the police then had to pick up? Literally no one benefits from this needless suffering. Thank you for the book recommendation. I was in fact low key looking for something on the topic.
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Jul 24, 2020 09:34
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I've been in the mental health system (Jeugd Riagg, GGZ) for nigh on 18 years and I can tell you that, at least for me, it's been very hard to not just check out. Everything that's been happening to me for nearly two decades hasn't been framed around getting better or comfortable with what I'm dealing with but accepting it so I can get back to work. So many different diagnoses, so many different medications and all framed around hey we know what you have now so let's get you back to work, you don't want to keep staying a drain do you? The most recent one has mostly felt like them going gently caress it you're autistic now because there's such a wide range of neuro atypical personalities that you'll identify with one. Just stop feeling bad and get back out there.
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Jul 24, 2020 09:47
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SavageGentleman posted:Full telepathic gestalt conscious communism now! when deus ex was too optimistic you know something's gone off the rails completely. Where's my greasels and skul guns? e: and covid's so much lamer compared to the grey death
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Jul 24, 2020 09:51
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You are thinking of reducing suffering as a goal in itself. It isn't. We live in a capitalist system, so the goal is maximizing profit. Making life better for poor people often does not lead to more profit, so it isn't done. In fact, often you can make more profit by privatizing decently functioning public institutions, stripping out all the copper wiring and running them on fumes while performing minimum maintenance. That the provided service then suffers and this in turn causes human suffering is usually not the point but incidental. It's just that nobody who matters gives a gently caress because it doesn't pay to give a gently caress. So for example, cuts to mental health could be used to provide a tax break to big corporations. So someone did benefit. And the source of the extra wealth they ended up with was suffering.
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Jul 24, 2020 09:56
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Lord Stimperor posted:BTW if people ITT are thinking that being bigoted idiots is exclusive to the povvies who don't know any better, you're in for a bad surprise. Well-off middle and upper class folk just don't vent their bigotry by smashing in brown people's shop windows, they change zoning restrictions and other policies to keep our whom they don't want in their street. I'm baffled by the unspoken assumption that "working class" = white. Working class areas in cities are almost all mixed since the majority of immigrants are not wealthy so they get crammed in the same neighborhoods as the "native" working class. It's the middle and upper class that can afford to self-segregate. It is admittedly different in the countryside but that's what, 20% of the population in most European countries? It can't be said to be representative of the overall working class.
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Jul 24, 2020 10:02
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Kassad posted:I'm baffled by the unspoken assumption that "working class" = white. Working class areas in cities are almost all mixed since the majority of immigrants are not wealthy so they get crammed in the same neighborhoods as the "native" working class. It's the middle and upper class that can afford to self-segregate. This makes 'the working class are unreachable savage racists' a useful fiction for middle and upper class liberal racism, yes.
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Jul 24, 2020 10:09
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Kassad posted:I'm baffled by the unspoken assumption that "working class" = white. Working class areas in cities are almost all mixed since the majority of immigrants are not wealthy so they get crammed in the same neighborhoods as the "native" working class. It's the middle and upper class that can afford to self-segregate. This is a very harmful historical artifact. The only somewhat socialist party in the Netherlands was against work migrants which of course let off a lot of dog whistles and has hung onto representing basically only their shrinking white base, with predictable results. Sad.
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Jul 24, 2020 10:11
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When you get above a certain amount of money, something changes in people's minds. Money just stops being a mean to various ends, and starts being a video game high score. When you're a billionaire, you don't want more money because you have uses for more money, but because you need your high score to be higher. There will never be a point at which a rich gently caress will decide they have enough money. There can be a point at which a rich gently caress will recognize that they get more money than they can spend in their lifetime, but that will not change their behavior: they will still continue to try to get even more money, despite knowing it is now useless to them. At most they'll create a "foundation" that will do vaguely charitable work in some domain or some other, but that's still part of the high score mechanism. There's a reason why they create their own foundations with their own name plastered on it rather than giving the same amount of money to a pre-existing rich gently caress foundation doing the same thing. In order to keep the rich to continue accumulating more and more money so that the high scores can continue to climb up, because this is the main purpose of civilization according to mainstream political thought since the 1980s, money has to be extracted from the lower and middle classes. That's how we get a "hourglass economy" which is what's seen as desirable by mainstream economists, and is aggressively pushed everywhere by institutions such as the IMF. A stable job with a middling wage becomes a "privilege", because the new normal is the precariat. Economics rags have gone as far as calling people with long-term employment "the new rentiers" despite, by definition, being people who work for a living, while the definition of a rentier is someone who doesn't work for a living. But people being able to live from their work is now seen as far too generous, what's important is to be competitive, and that goes by a constant reduction of "labor cost", which is a dogwhistle way of saying wages. And that's where the left should intervene, and fight back against this. But they don't. They go "hey look we did a lot of good things for the workers in the 1920s so now we won, the working class no longer needs defending" and embrace the neoliberal discourse on being competitive.
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Jul 24, 2020 10:18
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When people get rich enough they don't value money any more, the numbers become so abstract as to be irrelevant, so what they're most interested in is access. It's not that they can buy bananas on a much larger scale than you, the comparison becomes pointless, what distinguishes them and strokes their ego is that they have access to things (power, fame, experiences, rare objects, freedom from consequence, etc) that (almost) nobody else ever, ever will or could
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Jul 24, 2020 10:34
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Some good discussion here right now, keep it up guys and gals. According to the liberals, immigrants arent working class at all since they are all doctors and lawyers etc (Who then works as cab drivers for some reason) I had no real point with this post other than to point out that even the discussion of which people are the working class has been hijacked by the upper classes, with great success for them. Source: im working class. Also my brother is a lorry driver with 2 kids, they opened up an immigration centre close to him out in the countryside, and the immigrants kids get bumped in the que to the daycare, so my brother has to drive his kids like one hour to get to daycare instead of having them at the daycare right down the Street. No Wonder he votes right with those kind of policies, the solution ofc is to build and fund more daycares in the area, but hey capitalism gets in the way, the rich need their yachts. Zombiepop fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Jul 24, 2020 |
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Jul 24, 2020 10:57
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Zombiepop posted:According to the liberals, immigrants arent working class at all since they are all doctors and lawyers etc (Who then works as cab drivers for some reason) I can't count the number of times I've run into this. Rode a cab with an Afghan cabbie who was an MSc in Physics; his friend had a Ph.D. in the same field, but had a cleaning job. Turkish guy serving lunch at my school was an astrophysicist. Iraqi wiping old people's asses at my mom's last job was an MD. I understand language can be a barrier and educations aren't 1:1 transferable, but come on.
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Jul 24, 2020 11:28
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As someone rural with a steady stream of immigrants coming here since the 80s I don't understand that queue thing at all. The influx of immigrants with kids saved underpopulated day cares and schools from closing and kept homes and farms open with new tenants and helped the economy recover, literal injection of life blood into these communities. I wonder what kinda countryside it is that was doing well enough that there were more kids than daycare seats before immigrants. Most grumbling about immigrants here during the last crisis was along the lines "well most of them leave for helsinki or some other city after all the work we put in", but then again we got money from the govt for that so it's a net positive even if most of them leave.
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Jul 24, 2020 11:30
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Zombiepop posted:Also my brother is a lorry driver with 2 kids, they opened up an immigration centre close to him out in the countryside, and the immigrants kids get bumped in the que to the daycare, so my brother has to drive his kids like one hour to get to daycare instead of having them at the daycare right down the Street. No Wonder he votes right with those kind of policies, the solution ofc is to build and fund more daycares in the area, but hey capitalism gets in the way, the rich need their yachts. no the solution is to shame him for being a racist plebe and insist he benefits from White Privilege™ anyway so if anything things are being too good for him and so the enlightened left will make sure to make his life shittier in the name of social progress.
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Jul 24, 2020 11:31
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SplitSoul posted:I can't count the number of times I've run into this. Rode a cab with an Afghan cabbie who was an MSc in Physics; his friend had a Ph.D. in the same field, but had a cleaning job. Turkish guy serving lunch at my school was an astrophysicist. Iraqi wiping old people's asses at my mom's last job was an MD. I understand language can be a barrier and educations aren't 1:1 transferable, but come on. When I worked warehouse logistics one of the stock counters had a law degree in human rights from an Indonesian university. One of the process controllers had a masters in biology from a Nepalese university. One of the inbound operators was a fully certified x-ray tech from Poland. And these are just 3 I remember off the top of my head because they made me go "what the gently caress are you even doing here?" so hard. So much loving human potential is wasted on dumb meaningless bullshit because the market has decided this is the ~most efficient allocation of resources~ to ensure wealthy fucks have 2 yachts each (one for yachting, and one for storing all your dumb bullshit you take with you while yachting, like your helicopter, jetski's, motor boat, submarine and staff rooms which otherwise would take up way too much space on your main yacht and make you look like a pauper with what little space remains for you to get your yachting on).
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Jul 24, 2020 11:49
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His Divine Shadow posted:As someone rural with a steady stream of immigrants coming here since the 80s I don't understand that queue thing at all. The influx of immigrants with kids saved underpopulated day cares and schools from closing and kept homes and farms open with new tenants and helped the economy recover, literal injection of life blood into these communities. I wonder what kinda countryside it is that was doing well enough that there were more kids than daycare seats before immigrants. This area aint being depopulated at all, hella rich folks are moving in tho, so everything is quite expensive these days, its rural but close to a city so its a good spot. So its even worse, they are expanding like hell but no money is going towards social services. But yeah in other areas they really save the communities.
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Jul 24, 2020 11:55
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Orange Devil posted:When I worked warehouse logistics one of the stock counters had a law degree in human rights from an Indonesian university. One of the process controllers had a masters in biology from a Nepalese university. One of the inbound operators was a fully certified x-ray tech from Poland. And these are just 3 I remember off the top of my head because they made me go "what the gently caress are you even doing here?" so hard. Can we  here? Otherwise I'll take the probe.
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Jul 24, 2020 12:35
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Zombiepop posted:This area aint being depopulated at all, hella rich folks are moving in tho, so everything is quite expensive these days, its rural but close to a city so its a good spot. So its even worse, they are expanding like hell but no money is going towards social services. As usual the problem is hella rich folks. Basically rural gentrification.
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Jul 24, 2020 12:38
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Zombiepop posted:According to the liberals, immigrants arent working class at all since they are all doctors and lawyers etc (Who then works as cab drivers for some reason) I'm not even talking about people in this sort of situation. The vast majority of immigrants that came to France since the 1960s weren't refugees and did it to work in factories, stores, nursing homes, and other "low-skills" activities. They were working class in their home countries and they're working class in this one. Of course some are wealthy and immediately go and buy some flat in downtown Paris. But many more come to work 10 hours a day in some sweatshop before they graduate to being a salesperson in a clothing store. Kassad fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Jul 24, 2020 |
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Jul 24, 2020 13:07
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always nice to see a bunch of middle class people who call themselves leftist write 1000 words about how much disdain they have for the working class. This is especially true for the UK, where the complete educational system is literally designed to limit access to education to the working classes and keeping them dumb (even more than in other European countries). next time you call a working class person stupid, try checking your own (educational, familial, material) privilege and the results may surprise you.
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Jul 24, 2020 13:14
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I'm a factory worker and I can honestly say there's some thick as bricks people working alongside me. There's also thick as bricks people with law, medical or history degrees. You don't need to be intelligent to study. You don't need to be dumb to be an un- or low skilled worker. Sometimes life takes you where life takes you.
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Jul 24, 2020 13:20
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Kassad posted:I'm baffled by the unspoken assumption that "working class" = white. Working class areas in cities are almost all mixed since the majority of immigrants are not wealthy so they get crammed in the same neighborhoods as the "native" working class. It's the middle and upper class that can afford to self-segregate. I did not intend to erase non-whites from the working class. I was referring to the idea it was (exclusively) white angry working class gammons that were racist bigots. Well off gammons are racist bigots too they just don't get laughed at on television, they make the television programming.
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Jul 24, 2020 13:25
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nimby posted:I'm a factory worker and I can honestly say there's some thick as bricks people working alongside me. This
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Jul 24, 2020 13:31
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